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pfjw@aol.com
Guest

Mon Jan 14, 2019 9:45 pm   



What it comes down to is that there are not a lot of different cleaning materials out there. There are, however, very nearly infinite variations on a very, very few themes. Nothing is magical. And nothing is special in any meaningful way. There are companies that invest heavily in "proprietary" formula, some of which actually work well, and some of which do not. But every single one of them will start with what is most likely the same 20 or so basic materials. And nothing is secret. Do you really think that no other manufacturer has never dumped a drop of DeOxit into a gas chromatograph? Or a drop of Cramolin Red? Or any other solvent, chemical or material?

What is, more importantly, what is not in these magic formula is not magic. The Virgins that do the mixing only on Walpurgis Night are the stuff of legends, not fact-based. Nor do we have to be Mr. Wizard as we approach this. We need to understand some basic chemistry, understand the materials at hand and in use, and understand how any chemical reactions as may take place start, and more importantly, finish. Not a complicated process. We need to understand how chemical mix, what happens to the mix over time, and when applied, how they operate. Not a complicated process, either.

We have choices. Unlike Jeff, I am not in the fee-for-service aspect of the hobby. So, I do not have to warrant anything. Were I to, you bet that anything I used on my bench would be a supportable name-brand product designed for the use-at-hand. So, I may hand-mix a Cramolin-Red analog to my own needs. Or use some glacial ammonia to strip a really nasty part down to its bones. To me, the alternative is landfill - so "kill-or-cure" is not an idle statement.

But I do know my chemistry - at least as it applies to "heads" of various natures.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

Martin Gregorie
Guest

Mon Jan 14, 2019 9:45 pm   



On Mon, 14 Jan 2019 10:10:38 -0800, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

Quote:
On Mon, 14 Jan 2019 07:02:04 -0800 (PST), bruce2bowser_at_gmail.com wrote:

3. Everyone reads the label only after the product has been consumed.

Another way to find out what's in a product it to read its Materials Data
Sheet (MSDS) - any substance that's transported before being sold or used
will have one because its often a condition of transport contracts that
it has one. Here's a good starting point:https://www.msdsonline.com/

https://hazard.com/msds/index.php
https://www.msdsonline.com/

.... but unfortunately the first of these is somewhat flaky - quite
possibly related to the US Governmental shutdown, since its been good in
the past.


--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

Fox's Mercantile
Guest

Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:45 pm   



On 1/14/19 1:46 PM, pfjw_at_aol.com wrote:
Quote:
Unlike Jeff, I am not in the fee-for-service aspect of the
hobby. So, I do not have to warrant anything. Were I to,
you bet that anything I used on my bench would be a
supportable name-brand product designed for the use-at-hand.


I go through this same argument about using SnapOn tools vs
Craftsman. "But Craftsman is lifetime warranty too."
Perhaps, but I've never had to stop in the middle of a job
and hunt down a SnapOn tool dealer to replace something that
shouldn't have broken in the first place.

I make a living with my tools and materials. NOT standing in
line replacing things.



--
"I am a river to my people."
Jeff-1.0
WA6FWi
http:foxsmercantile.com

Jeff Liebermann
Guest

Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:45 pm   



On Mon, 14 Jan 2019 11:38:06 -0800 (PST), tabbypurr_at_gmail.com wrote:

Quote:
I've learnt something today. I wasn't aware that paying a tenth
the price for a better & entirely customisable product was a
form of wizardry. Nor that it wasted time or money.


I have a book "Fortunes in Formula" (1939). 853 pages and 10,000
formulas. It has just about everything one might want from cleaning
formulas to medical concoctions. It has served me well over the
years. Unfortunately, it uses the "common" names for chemicals. For
example:
aqua fortis = nitric acid
horn silver = sliver chloride
oil of vitriol = sulphuric acid
sugar of lead = lead acetate
verdigris = copper acetate
The medical preparation section uses the Latin names for everything.
Decoding the formulas does require an extra step in translation, but
is survivable.

A recent example of home chemistry is my annual problem with moss
growing on my wood outside stairs. The moss turns to slime when the
light and temperature is right, making my stairs rather hazardous.
I've been using the overpriced commercial preparation, which works,
but not very well. This year, I decided to try something from the
book, which turned out to be a vinegar, washing soda, salt, and water
preparation. It didn't work well in my sprayer, but it worked much
better than anything else I've dried with a scrub brush and garden
hose. My guess is I saved about $40 by essentially replacing the
commercial preparation with hardware store vinegar.

>Retail concoctions often work, but often not adequately IME.

Yep. I've had the same experience.

>Really it never ceases to amaze me what people pay for mostly water.

When I was young, stupid, and impoverished, I did some work for a
neighbor helping him prepare a laundry product in his garage. The
work was boring, but the owner had me fascinated with his stories
about his WWII TNT factory. The laundry ingredients were initially
fairly common and easily mixed. Yes, it was mostly water. However,
there were obscure additives that were quite necessary, usually to
solve uncommon or odd problems. The customers were getting mostly
water, but the common ingredients and obscure additives were what they
really were buying. The product eventually became a commercial
success and was sold to a large conglomerate.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl_at_cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Fox's Mercantile
Guest

Tue Jan 15, 2019 12:45 am   



On 1/14/19 3:50 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
Quote:
Yes, it was mostly water. However, there were obscure additives
that were quite necessary, usually to solve uncommon or odd
problems. The customers were getting mostly water, but the
common ingredients and obscure additives were what they really
were buying.


Exactly. I am more than happy to pay for stuff that works instead
of mucking about trying to "make my own."

Two things of note, brake fluid really does stop weeds in your
driveway cracks, and lamp oil (paraffin oil) is considerably
cheaper than Saddle Soap.

I did learn how to make Prussic Acid, but that's pretty iffy.
I'd rather my enemies drop dead from natural causes or through
their own misfortune.



--
"I am a river to my people."
Jeff-1.0
WA6FWi
http:foxsmercantile.com


Guest

Tue Jan 15, 2019 2:45 am   



On Monday, 14 January 2019 23:05:12 UTC, Fox's Mercantile wrote:
Quote:
On 1/14/19 3:50 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

Yes, it was mostly water. However, there were obscure additives
that were quite necessary, usually to solve uncommon or odd
problems. The customers were getting mostly water, but the
common ingredients and obscure additives were what they really
were buying.

Exactly. I am more than happy to pay for stuff that works instead
of mucking about trying to "make my own."


I have more success with my own formulations than retail preparations, mostly at far less cost. I don't see any upside to going retail. I'll use them when they're good, eg washing powder, but many things it's easy to do better. Retail descalers are especially time & money wasting.


NT


Guest

Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:45 pm   



On Monday, January 14, 2019 at 11:03:39 AM UTC-5, tabb...@gmail.com wrote:
Quote:
On Monday, 14 January 2019 15:02:07 UTC, bruce2...@gmail.com wrote:
On Thu, 10 Jan 2019 08:07:13 -0000 (UTC), gregz <ze...@comcast.net
wrote:

Suffice it to say that using a substance for a purpose not mentioned on the container’s label just isn’t what you want. Go to a trusted computer or parts retailer and specifically ask for ’parts cleaner’, ‘head cleaner’ .. etc. Because it beats re-inventing the wheel, being adventuresome, gambling, etc...

You won't do very well in life with that attitude.


I humbly disagree.


Guest

Fri Feb 01, 2019 8:45 am   



You got to be fucking kidding.

Well almost...

N_Cook
Guest

Fri Feb 01, 2019 10:45 am   



On 31/01/2019 21:47, William Beaty wrote:
Quote:
I PERFORMED IC SURGERY on an analog amplifier, custom dip-16. Removed
the gold cover. Pretty huge 1980s stuff, gold-on-ceramic hybrid.
But still. This was a custom IC, a patchclamp front end with a peltier-
cooled discrete amp, with a tiny peltier block, thermistor, and a
three-jfets diff amp. And a large piece of a dessicant pellet.
The thermistor had gone crazy from old age, shutting down
their -30C cooling.

axopatch photos
http://staff.washington.edu/wbeaty/chem_axopatch.html#photo

I've never had leadbond chips open before. I mean, besides looking
inside those ancient Western Digital 6805-type microcontrollers with
the eprom window.

Mantis inspection microscopes: still NOT cheap on eBay.



((((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( (o) ) ) )))))))))))))))))))))))
William J. Beaty Research Engineer
beaty a chem washington edu UW Chem Dept, Bagley Hall RM74
billb a eskimo com Box 351700, Seattle, WA 98195-1700
ph x3-6195 http://staff.washington.edu/wbeaty/


What state was the dessicant?
I expected it to be the cause going to gel , like the breakdown of
con-formal coating causing chip failure.
I vaguely remember repairing an STK???? hybrid IC,fairly easy to break
open, that had been dropped and getting away with "bonding" the failed
usonic weld point , with silver loaded paint.

Ron D.
Guest

Fri Feb 01, 2019 8:45 pm   



Cool. Surgeries are done on internal battery backed up Dallas RAMS too to access the pins for the battery, The new battery is placed on top.

If you have the map where to remove the Epoxy, You stand a good chance of repair.

Desoldering the chip (heating it) might destroy it's contents.

FYI and ASIDE: Had an ultrasonic bonder at work to play with, but it did not work well.

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