Toshiba laptop aggravation

D Yuniskis wrote:
Hi John,

John Larkin wrote:
On Thu, 11 Mar 2010 09:38:49 -0700, D Yuniskis
not.going.to.be_at_seen.com> wrote:

John Larkin wrote:

[win98 laptops]

I use them with real PS/2 mice. Those mousepads are awful.
Most mousepads are sited in the wrong place. But, then
again, with a laptop you haven't much choice...

It's weird to buy a computer for less than a scope probe.
frown> We discard laptops with anything less than a Piii.

Right. Big companies unload, sometimes, thousands of working laptops.
Brokers buy them by the pallet, refurb, and resell them with a
warranty. They can be handy to have around sometimes. It doesn't take
a Core Duo to wiggle bits on a parallel port.

I had a decent older laptop with *built-in* AC power supply
(eliminates the problem of having to buy replacement batteries
for something that is rarely used :< ). But, I opted to discard
it in one of my periodic "purges".

I've held onto a Compaq "Portable 386" (lunchbox, not the
luggable). Big, yes. And had to hack the BIOS to get
support for even a 300 *MB* disk. But, keeps two ISA slots
available for me (something I don't have in any of the
other machines, here).

Wow. That goes back a long way. I used to have one of those it was like
carrying a car battery around with you. Powerful in its day.

Unfortunately, I don't have another machine with a 5" floppy
so I can't create the "SETUP floppy" to reinitialize the CMOS
now that the battery died. (<frown> I was smart enough to save
images of all the floppies -- but forgot to save a drive that
could write them... other than the one in the Compaq!)

You might be able to trick it into booting despite the CMOS being empty
by powering it up leaving for a few minutes and then switch off and
restart. With any luck enough power to put the CMOS into a default safe
state will stay around just long enough on capacitors. Try a few
variants of power on, reset reboot. You only have to get lucky once!

If it will boot once then use RS232 or parallel port networking to move
the files across.

On Thu, 11 Mar 2010 09:09:23 -0800, Joerg <invalid_at_invalid.invalid
wrote:

D Yuniskis wrote:
Hi John,

John Larkin wrote:
On Thu, 11 Mar 2010 09:38:49 -0700, D Yuniskis
not.going.to.be_at_seen.com> wrote:

John Larkin wrote:

[win98 laptops]

I use them with real PS/2 mice. Those mousepads are awful.
Most mousepads are sited in the wrong place. But, then
again, with a laptop you haven't much choice...

It's weird to buy a computer for less than a scope probe.
frown> We discard laptops with anything less than a Piii.
Right. Big companies unload, sometimes, thousands of working laptops.
Brokers buy them by the pallet, refurb, and resell them with a
warranty. They can be handy to have around sometimes. It doesn't take
a Core Duo to wiggle bits on a parallel port.
I had a decent older laptop with *built-in* AC power supply
(eliminates the problem of having to buy replacement batteries
for something that is rarely used :< ). But, I opted to discard
it in one of my periodic "purges".

I've held onto a Compaq "Portable 386" (lunchbox, not the
luggable). Big, yes. And had to hack the BIOS to get
support for even a 300 *MB* disk. But, keeps two ISA slots
available for me (something I don't have in any of the
other machines, here).

You can still buy PCs with ISA slots. And you will be able to for a
loooong time. ISA is here to stay because of many industrial uses.

Got any links? We've had a hard time getting mobos with ISA slots, as
spares for older systems. We just refurbed a 10-year-old magnetic
field mapper system and had a hard time getting parts. Our customer
was breathing down our neck, as the mapper is in the critical path of
a billion-dollar annual revenue stream.

D Yuniskis wrote:
Hi John,

John Larkin wrote:
On Thu, 11 Mar 2010 09:38:49 -0700, D Yuniskis
not.going.to.be_at_seen.com> wrote:

I've held onto a Compaq "Portable 386" (lunchbox, not the
luggable). Big, yes. And had to hack the BIOS to get
support for even a 300 *MB* disk. But, keeps two ISA slots
available for me (something I don't have in any of the
other machines, here).

Wow. That goes back a long way. I used to have one of those it was like
carrying a car battery around with you. Powerful in its day.

Unfortunately, I don't have another machine with a 5" floppy
so I can't create the "SETUP floppy" to reinitialize the CMOS
now that the battery died. (<frown> I was smart enough to save
images of all the floppies -- but forgot to save a drive that
could write them... other than the one in the Compaq!)

You might be able to trick it into booting despite the CMOS being empty
by powering it up leaving for a few minutes and then switch off and
restart. With any luck enough power to put the CMOS into a default safe
state will stay around just long enough on capacitors. Try a few
variants of power on, reset reboot. You only have to get lucky once!

If it will boot once then use RS232 or parallel port networking to move
the files across.

John Larkin wrote:
On Thu, 11 Mar 2010 09:09:23 -0800, Joerg <invalid_at_invalid.invalid
wrote:

D Yuniskis wrote:
Hi John,

John Larkin wrote:
On Thu, 11 Mar 2010 09:38:49 -0700, D Yuniskis
not.going.to.be_at_seen.com> wrote:

John Larkin wrote:

[win98 laptops]

I use them with real PS/2 mice. Those mousepads are awful.
Most mousepads are sited in the wrong place. But, then
again, with a laptop you haven't much choice...

It's weird to buy a computer for less than a scope probe.
frown> We discard laptops with anything less than a Piii.
Right. Big companies unload, sometimes, thousands of working laptops.
Brokers buy them by the pallet, refurb, and resell them with a
warranty. They can be handy to have around sometimes. It doesn't take
a Core Duo to wiggle bits on a parallel port.
I had a decent older laptop with *built-in* AC power supply
(eliminates the problem of having to buy replacement batteries
for something that is rarely used :< ). But, I opted to discard
it in one of my periodic "purges".

I've held onto a Compaq "Portable 386" (lunchbox, not the
luggable). Big, yes. And had to hack the BIOS to get
support for even a 300 *MB* disk. But, keeps two ISA slots
available for me (something I don't have in any of the
other machines, here).

You can still buy PCs with ISA slots. And you will be able to for a
loooong time. ISA is here to stay because of many industrial uses.

Got any links? We've had a hard time getting mobos with ISA slots, as
spares for older systems. We just refurbed a 10-year-old magnetic
field mapper system and had a hard time getting parts. Our customer
was breathing down our neck, as the mapper is in the critical path of
a billion-dollar annual revenue stream.


The first few search links:

http://www.adek.com/ATX-motherboards.html
http://www.pcplanetsystems.com/abc/product_details.php?category_id=242&item_id=2734
http://www.aaeon.com/PD_Products_Detail_E062ABE0294D40E1B2_5D5996FE2BD1472997_5D0D48AA39F6434B83_TW_UTF-8.html
http://www.ibus.com/Enclosures_index_EN.html

I found a European source for someone a while ago where they offered new
ISA-motherboards with rather extreme numbers of ISA slots, similar to
this one:

http://www.interloper.com/products/product-details.php?productid=55290005&cat=55

The good thing is that most of the "ready-to-go" ISA computers come as a
heavy duty industrial version, with some serious fans and all that.

On Mar 11, 12:10 pm, D Yuniskis <not.going.to...@seen.com> wrote:
Unfortunately, I don't have another machine with a 5" floppy
so I can't create the "SETUP floppy" to reinitialize the CMOS
now that the battery died. (<frown> I was smart enough to save
images of all the floppies -- but forgot to save a drive that
could write them... other than the one in the Compaq!)

What are your images on? Just files on your hard drive?
Why not just email them to a machine that has a 5-1/4, or am I missing
something here?

Unfortunately, I don't have another machine with a 5" floppy

I converted all the 5" I wanted to keep to 3", and now to CD.

I actually had one 8" floppy (remember those?) I wanted to keep - an
old 8048 Avocet cross-compiler.

Now I'm wondering if I shouldn't take those files and convert them yet
again - to SD Memory Cards! Ha!!!

As time marches on, the list of stuff I want to keep (in general, not
just specific to computers!) drops significantly!!

Hi John,





John Larkin wrote:
On Thu, 11 Mar 2010 09:38:49 -0700, D Yuniskis
not.going.to...@seen.com> wrote:

John Larkin wrote:

[win98 laptops]

I use them with real PS/2 mice. Those mousepads are awful.
Most mousepads are sited in the wrong place.   But, then
again, with a laptop you haven't much choice...

It's weird to buy a computer for less than a scope probe.
frown>  We discard laptops with anything less than a Piii.

Right. Big companies unload, sometimes, thousands of working laptops.
Brokers buy them by the pallet, refurb, and resell them with a
warranty. They can be handy to have around sometimes. It doesn't take
a Core Duo to wiggle bits on a parallel port.

I had a decent older laptop with *built-in* AC power supply
(eliminates the problem of having to buy replacement batteries
for something that is rarely used  :< ).  But, I opted to discard
it in one of my periodic "purges".

I've held onto a Compaq "Portable 386" (lunchbox, not the
luggable).  Big, yes.  And had to hack the BIOS to get
support for even a 300 *MB* disk.  But, keeps two ISA slots
available for me (something I don't have in any of the
other machines, here).

Unfortunately, I don't have another machine with a 5" floppy
so I can't create the "SETUP floppy" to reinitialize the CMOS
now that the battery died.  (<frown> I was smart enough to save
images of all the floppies -- but forgot to save a drive that
could write them... other than the one in the Compaq!)

I am hoping, someday, to have time to see if I can hack a
USB 3" floppy drive to accept a 5" drive, instead (no idea
how closely the controllers in those floppies are wed to
the actual 3" drive!  I don't expect much joy...)



You can get a clean working '98 laptop on ebay for around $50. A
refurb IBM from a broker, with 6 month warranty and a good battery,
goes for about $250.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

D Yuniskis wrote:
Hi John,

John Larkin wrote:
On Thu, 11 Mar 2010 09:38:49 -0700, D Yuniskis
not.going.to...@seen.com> wrote:

John Larkin wrote:

[win98 laptops]

I use them with real PS/2 mice. Those mousepads are awful.
Most mousepads are sited in the wrong place.   But, then
again, with a laptop you haven't much choice...

It's weird to buy a computer for less than a scope probe.
frown>  We discard laptops with anything less than a Piii.

Right. Big companies unload, sometimes, thousands of working laptops.
Brokers buy them by the pallet, refurb, and resell them with a
warranty. They can be handy to have around sometimes. It doesn't take
a Core Duo to wiggle bits on a parallel port.

I had a decent older laptop with *built-in* AC power supply
(eliminates the problem of having to buy replacement batteries
for something that is rarely used  :< ).  But, I opted to discard
it in one of my periodic "purges".

I've held onto a Compaq "Portable 386" (lunchbox, not the
luggable).  Big, yes.  And had to hack the BIOS to get
support for even a 300 *MB* disk.  But, keeps two ISA slots
available for me (something I don't have in any of the
other machines, here).

Wow. That goes back a long way. I used to have one of those it was like
carrying a car battery around with you. Powerful in its day.



Unfortunately, I don't have another machine with a 5" floppy
so I can't create the "SETUP floppy" to reinitialize the CMOS
now that the battery died.  (<frown> I was smart enough to save
images of all the floppies -- but forgot to save a drive that
could write them... other than the one in the Compaq!)

You might be able to trick it into booting despite the CMOS being empty
by powering it up leaving for a few minutes and then switch off and
restart. With any luck enough power to put the CMOS into a default safe
state will stay around just long enough on capacitors. Try a few
variants of power on, reset reboot. You only have to get lucky once!

If it will boot once then use RS232 or parallel port networking to move
the files across.

Regards,
Martin Brown- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

D Yuniskis wrote:

mpm wrote:

On Mar 11, 12:10 pm, D Yuniskis <not.going.to...@seen.com> wrote:

Unfortunately, I don't have another machine with a 5" floppy
so I can't create the "SETUP floppy" to reinitialize the CMOS
now that the battery died. (<frown> I was smart enough to save
images of all the floppies -- but forgot to save a drive that
could write them... other than the one in the Compaq!)


What are your images on? Just files on your hard drive?
Why not just email them to a machine that has a 5-1/4, or am I missing
something here?


Yes:

Unfortunately, I don't have another machine with a 5" floppy


:> I can grab a scrap machine *with* a 5" floppy, etc.
and solve this (immediate) problem. But, that's not a
long term solution. (I also have 5" drives available)
A better solution is a 5" USB floppy (or, build a NAS
with a variety of "removable media")

I converted all the 5" I wanted to keep to 3", and now to CD.


I just imaged all of the 5" media and tossed it away.
Unfortunately, that also included the SETUP/INSPECT/TEST
disks for the lunchbox.

I actually had one 8" floppy (remember those?) I wanted to keep - an
old 8048 Avocet cross-compiler.


I still have an 8" soft-sectored as well as a hard-sectored drive
(and a few boxes of virgin media of each).

Now I'm wondering if I shouldn't take those files and convert them yet
again - to SD Memory Cards! Ha!!!

As time marches on, the list of stuff I want to keep (in general, not
just specific to computers!) drops significantly!!


That's the *mistake* I made :-/ Stuff takes up far less space than
the aggravation of *not* having it causes! :
Something interesting

http://www.deviceside.com/fc5025.html

mpm wrote:

On Mar 11, 12:10 pm, D Yuniskis <not.going.to...@seen.com> wrote:

Unfortunately, I don't have another machine with a 5" floppy
so I can't create the "SETUP floppy" to reinitialize the CMOS
now that the battery died. (<frown> I was smart enough to save
images of all the floppies -- but forgot to save a drive that
could write them... other than the one in the Compaq!)


What are your images on? Just files on your hard drive?
Why not just email them to a machine that has a 5-1/4, or am I missing
something here?


Yes:

Unfortunately, I don't have another machine with a 5" floppy


:> I can grab a scrap machine *with* a 5" floppy, etc.
and solve this (immediate) problem. But, that's not a
long term solution. (I also have 5" drives available)
A better solution is a 5" USB floppy (or, build a NAS
with a variety of "removable media")

I converted all the 5" I wanted to keep to 3", and now to CD.


I just imaged all of the 5" media and tossed it away.
Unfortunately, that also included the SETUP/INSPECT/TEST
disks for the lunchbox.

I actually had one 8" floppy (remember those?) I wanted to keep - an
old 8048 Avocet cross-compiler.


I still have an 8" soft-sectored as well as a hard-sectored drive
(and a few boxes of virgin media of each).

Now I'm wondering if I shouldn't take those files and convert them yet
again - to SD Memory Cards! Ha!!!

As time marches on, the list of stuff I want to keep (in general, not
just specific to computers!) drops significantly!!


That's the *mistake* I made :-/ Stuff takes up far less space than
the aggravation of *not* having it causes! :
Something interesting

Hi Jamie,

Jamie wrote:
D Yuniskis wrote:

mpm wrote:

On Mar 11, 12:10 pm, D Yuniskis <not.going.to...@seen.com> wrote:

Unfortunately, I don't have another machine with a 5" floppy
so I can't create the "SETUP floppy" to reinitialize the CMOS
now that the battery died. (<frown> I was smart enough to save
images of all the floppies -- but forgot to save a drive that
could write them... other than the one in the Compaq!)


What are your images on? Just files on your hard drive?
Why not just email them to a machine that has a 5-1/4, or am I missing
something here?


Yes:

Unfortunately, I don't have another machine with a 5" floppy


:> I can grab a scrap machine *with* a 5" floppy, etc.
and solve this (immediate) problem. But, that's not a
long term solution. (I also have 5" drives available)
A better solution is a 5" USB floppy (or, build a NAS
with a variety of "removable media")

I converted all the 5" I wanted to keep to 3", and now to CD.


I just imaged all of the 5" media and tossed it away.
Unfortunately, that also included the SETUP/INSPECT/TEST
disks for the lunchbox.

I actually had one 8" floppy (remember those?) I wanted to keep - an
old 8048 Avocet cross-compiler.


I still have an 8" soft-sectored as well as a hard-sectored drive
(and a few boxes of virgin media of each).

Now I'm wondering if I shouldn't take those files and convert them yet
again - to SD Memory Cards! Ha!!!

As time marches on, the list of stuff I want to keep (in general, not
just specific to computers!) drops significantly!!


That's the *mistake* I made :-/ Stuff takes up far less space than
the aggravation of *not* having it causes! :
Something interesting

http://www.deviceside.com/fc5025.html

Cool! But:

"The FC5025 is read-only. It cannot write to floppies."

makes it useless in my case. :

Hi Martin,

Martin Brown wrote:
D Yuniskis wrote:
Hi John,

John Larkin wrote:
On Thu, 11 Mar 2010 09:38:49 -0700, D Yuniskis
not.going.to.be_at_seen.com> wrote:

I've held onto a Compaq "Portable 386" (lunchbox, not the
luggable). Big, yes. And had to hack the BIOS to get
support for even a 300 *MB* disk. But, keeps two ISA slots
available for me (something I don't have in any of the
other machines, here).

Wow. That goes back a long way. I used to have one of those it was
like carrying a car battery around with you. Powerful in its day.

Yup. :> The plasma screen brings back warm and fuzzy memories
of playing Empire on Plato (though obviously the Compaq's display
is much smaller!). It's nice in that I can disassemble it

*repeatedly* for upgrades, repairs, etc. Try that with a
laptop and you quickly end up with a bunch of broken plastic
parts that you have to *tape* together. :

Unfortunately, I don't have another machine with a 5" floppy
so I can't create the "SETUP floppy" to reinitialize the CMOS
now that the battery died. (<frown> I was smart enough to save
images of all the floppies -- but forgot to save a drive that
could write them... other than the one in the Compaq!)

You might be able to trick it into booting despite the CMOS being
empty by powering it up leaving for a few minutes and then switch off
and restart. With any luck enough power to put the CMOS into a default
safe state will stay around just long enough on capacitors. Try a few
variants of power on, reset reboot. You only have to get lucky once!

I've replaced the battery. Problem is it sees the CMOS as
"corrupt". So, the hard drive is unrecognizable (since the
"type" information is no longer valid in the CMOS!).

That means booting off the 5" floppy. :> If I had a bootable
floppy, chances are it would have been the SETUP floppy! :-/

If it will boot once then use RS232 or parallel port networking to
move the files across.

If I can get it to boot, I have a parallel port NIC that
gives me about 70KB/s -- which is what I use normally
(since sneakernet is not an option when you have no other
5" drives!).

Problem is just getting the SETUP image onto 5" media.

I recently rescued a Portable 3 (286 but w/ same 5" floppy).
I will try to get *it* to write an image for me which I
can then carry over to the '386.

And, then remember to keep bootable copies of this media
available (instead of just "blanks"!)

Hi Martin,

Martin Brown wrote:

I suspect I still have some DOS 2.10 bootable disks in the attic
somewhere - whether or not they are still readable is another matter.
I have a Z80 BCPL compiler on 8" floppies lurking somewhere too.

Good luck. Perhaps someone nearby will send you a 5" boot disk.

shrug> Not a rush. I could fetch an old machine *today*
and get it off my list. But, it's not "pressing". And, it
doesn't address "tomorrow".

Maybe I take apart a USB floppy and see what's inside...

D Yuniskis wrote:

*repeatedly* for upgrades, repairs, etc. Try that with a
laptop and you quickly end up with a bunch of broken plastic
parts that you have to *tape* together. :

They were still a fairly tight squeeze to dismantle. I recall taking the
next one (much smaller) apart to install a Cyrix coprocessor taking most
of a day with a very complex dismantle and reassemble process.

Unfortunately, I don't have another machine with a 5" floppy
so I can't create the "SETUP floppy" to reinitialize the CMOS
now that the battery died. (<frown> I was smart enough to save
images of all the floppies -- but forgot to save a drive that
could write them... other than the one in the Compaq!)

You might be able to trick it into booting despite the CMOS being
empty by powering it up leaving for a few minutes and then switch off
and restart. With any luck enough power to put the CMOS into a
default safe state will stay around just long enough on capacitors.
Try a few variants of power on, reset reboot. You only have to get
lucky once!

I've replaced the battery. Problem is it sees the CMOS as
"corrupt". So, the hard drive is unrecognizable (since the
"type" information is no longer valid in the CMOS!).

That means booting off the 5" floppy. :> If I had a bootable
floppy, chances are it would have been the SETUP floppy! :-/

OK. But any bootable 5.25" floppy and a CMOS editor ought to get you
back on your feet.

If it will boot once then use RS232 or parallel port networking to
move the files across.

If I can get it to boot, I have a parallel port NIC that
gives me about 70KB/s -- which is what I use normally
(since sneakernet is not an option when you have no other
5" drives!).

The other way I have used to get into very dead in the water PCs is to
make a bootable CDROM and install a self contained Adaptec SCSI card
that tries to grab control at bootup. This might work if you have a
spare ISA slot. You can also get hard disks mounted on an ISA card (or
rather you could in those dim and distant days).

Problem is just getting the SETUP image onto 5" media.

I recently rescued a Portable 3 (286 but w/ same 5" floppy).
I will try to get *it* to write an image for me which I
can then carry over to the '386.

And, then remember to keep bootable copies of this media
available (instead of just "blanks"!) :-(

Careless.

I suspect I still have some DOS 2.10 bootable disks in the attic
somewhere - whether or not they are still readable is another matter.
I have a Z80 BCPL compiler on 8" floppies lurking somewhere too.

Good luck. Perhaps someone nearby will send you a 5" boot disk.

D Yuniskis wrote:
Hi Martin,

Martin Brown wrote:

I suspect I still have some DOS 2.10 bootable disks in the attic
somewhere - whether or not they are still readable is another matter.
I have a Z80 BCPL compiler on 8" floppies lurking somewhere too.

Good luck. Perhaps someone nearby will send you a 5" boot disk.

shrug> Not a rush. I could fetch an old machine *today*
and get it off my list. But, it's not "pressing". And, it
doesn't address "tomorrow".

That's what the storage shelves in the Garage are for )

I have kept an old machine just for that purpose, because it can read
5-1/4" floppies. Sometimes I have to tackle production issues for
clients. Often goes like this: "The computerized machine ran perfectly
fine for over 20 years, then yesterday there was a loud screeching sound
and ..."

Maybe I take apart a USB floppy and see what's inside...

Let us know what you find out. My wife would love if this big old
machine could go

Hi John,

John Larkin wrote:
On Thu, 11 Mar 2010 09:38:49 -0700, D Yuniskis
not.going.to.be_at_seen.com> wrote:

John Larkin wrote:

[win98 laptops]

I use them with real PS/2 mice. Those mousepads are awful.
Most mousepads are sited in the wrong place. But, then
again, with a laptop you haven't much choice...

It's weird to buy a computer for less than a scope probe.
frown> We discard laptops with anything less than a Piii.

Right. Big companies unload, sometimes, thousands of working laptops.
Brokers buy them by the pallet, refurb, and resell them with a
warranty. They can be handy to have around sometimes. It doesn't take
a Core Duo to wiggle bits on a parallel port.

I had a decent older laptop with *built-in* AC power supply
(eliminates the problem of having to buy replacement batteries
for something that is rarely used :< ). But, I opted to discard
it in one of my periodic "purges".

I've held onto a Compaq "Portable 386" (lunchbox, not the
luggable). Big, yes. And had to hack the BIOS to get
support for even a 300 *MB* disk. But, keeps two ISA slots
available for me (something I don't have in any of the
other machines, here).

Unfortunately, I don't have another machine with a 5" floppy
so I can't create the "SETUP floppy" to reinitialize the CMOS
now that the battery died. (<frown> I was smart enough to save
images of all the floppies -- but forgot to save a drive that
could write them... other than the one in the Compaq!)

I am hoping, someday, to have time to see if I can hack a
USB 3" floppy drive to accept a 5" drive, instead (no idea
how closely the controllers in those floppies are wed to
the actual 3" drive! I don't expect much joy...)

You can get a clean working '98 laptop on ebay for around $50. A
refurb IBM from a broker, with 6 month warranty and a good battery,
goes for about $250.