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Guest

Sat Jan 12, 2019 5:45 am   



On Friday, January 11, 2019 at 5:51:17 PM UTC-5, Mike wrote:
Quote:

"Moments notice"? They don't really have to shut down 100%. They just need to scale back enough to mitigate the peak. What sort of industries can't do that?

Attention! The following workers will not be paid from 4pm to 8pm today
as we'll not be building cars on that line.


Do you really thing they expect companies to shut down on an hourly basis with no notice? If they are writing contracts to pay companies for shutting down, I'm pretty sure they are planning more than a day ahead.

Then on the other side, there are jobs where you are told on a day to day basis if you will be working or not. No, it doesn't make for a lot of job satisfaction, but it happens.

A friend had his work week cut to 32 hours for a good period. I guess the alternative is looking for a new job. When enough people do that he would get his 40 hours back I suppose. It's all better than not working.

So a factory that has to cut off the high power motors, heaters or electrolysis between 4 and 8 PM can still produce whatever they make the other 20 hours a day and the 4 hours shutdown of the high current stuff lets then do maintenance and such.

Was this really something you can't see, or did you just feel you needed to make a joke?

Rick C.

+++ Get 6 months of free supercharging
+++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

Mike
Guest

Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:45 pm   



On 1/11/2019 7:50 PM, gnuarm.deletethisbit_at_gmail.com wrote:
Quote:
On Friday, January 11, 2019 at 5:51:17 PM UTC-5, Mike wrote:

"Moments notice"? They don't really have to shut down 100%. They just need to scale back enough to mitigate the peak. What sort of industries can't do that?

Attention! The following workers will not be paid from 4pm to 8pm today
as we'll not be building cars on that line.

Do you really thing they expect companies to shut down on an hourly basis with no notice? If they are writing contracts to pay companies for shutting down, I'm pretty sure they are planning more than a day ahead.


I made no mention of not planning ahead. What good does planning do when
the employees don't have options?
Quote:

Then on the other side, there are jobs where you are told on a day to day basis if you will be working or not. No, it doesn't make for a lot of job satisfaction, but it happens.

A friend had his work week cut to 32 hours for a good period. I guess the alternative is looking for a new job. When enough people do that he would get his 40 hours back I suppose. It's all better than not working.

So a factory that has to cut off the high power motors, heaters or electrolysis between 4 and 8 PM can still produce whatever they make the other 20 hours a day and the 4 hours shutdown of the high current stuff lets then do maintenance and such.

Was this really something you can't see, or did you just feel you needed to make a joke?


You're oversimplifying a very complex interwoven society.
Who is gonna take your kids to school when your work hours interfere?
What if you gotta be home at certain hours so your wife can work?
You think the others on this long chain of consequences will be
sympathetic?

YOU as an individual can make a choice whether you take your bath at a time
when energy to heat the water is more available. If YOU decided when I
could take my bath, we'd have a discussion!

The world works on coordinated schedules. Changing them is not at all
simple.

My footprint on the planet is very small. It's my choice. I do what I can.
But I don't tell other people what to do and punish them if they don't.

Your choices are yours and made to optimize YOUR existence.
When you choose for me, you're gonna get push back.
Quote:

Rick C.

+++ Get 6 months of free supercharging
+++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209



Guest

Sat Jan 12, 2019 2:45 pm   



On Thu, 10 Jan 2019 09:29:11 +0000, Martin Brown
<'''newspam'''@nezumi.demon.co.uk> wrote:

Quote:
It is actually very mild for winter at the moment around 8-10C so
that there is comparatively little heating demand. It spikes more
when there is a cold snap to -10C (possibly by enough to bring the
grid down). Successive governments have prevaricated for so long
over new build nuclear that things are very borderline now for peak
load vs capacity. They had to pay some heavy industrial users to
drop off grid last winter (people like the electrolytic metals
refiners - ultimate sink load).

You mean during peak times, right? It would make no sense to have
them shut down. Just let them work other than at peak. Most
factories like that work multiple shifts anyway.

No I mean that last year they had to pay heavy industrial users to drop
off the grid because gas availability and electricity generating
capacity were maxed out during "the beast from the East" weather - an
extended cold snap (which may happen again this year).


I would be surprised if big users would be dropped off during a cold
snap, when everything works normally.

However, if all production capacity is in use, in a well designed
network, it should still survive a loss of the largest production
unit. With the spinning reserve and fast starting emergency gas
turbines,it takes some time (15-60 min) before the network could
survive the loss of next big power plant. However, if the second big
unit is lost before all emergency units are feeding the network, this
is a catastrophic situation.

In order to save the network, part of the load must be immediately
dropped e.g. by cutting electricity to a big city. In developing
countries rolling blackouts are common, cutting the electric feed for
an hour or two rolling sequentially from city to city.

The idea with industrial disconnect agreement is to just change the
priority, in which loads are first dropped. From the society point of
view it is better to drop a big industrial load than dropping big
cities.

I would expect that such industrial agreements to be actually used
during one or two days a year, when a big power station is lost during
peak load.


Guest

Sat Jan 12, 2019 4:45 pm   



Quote:
"The world works on coordinated schedules. Changing them is not at all
simple. "


True, but they do it for daylight savings time which is one of the most stooopid things ever done by these hairless apes.


Guest

Sat Jan 12, 2019 4:45 pm   



On Fri, 11 Jan 2019 12:05:39 +0000, Martin Brown
<'''newspam'''@nezumi.demon.co.uk> wrote:

Quote:
On 11/01/2019 03:51, krw_at_notreal.com wrote:
On Thu, 10 Jan 2019 09:29:11 +0000, Martin Brown
'''newspam'''@nezumi.demon.co.uk> wrote:

On 09/01/2019 19:53, gnuarm.deletethisbit_at_gmail.com wrote:
On Wednesday, January 9, 2019 at 4:08:09 AM UTC-5, Martin Brown
wrote:
On 09/01/2019 07:45, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Tue, 8 Jan 2019 08:50:22 +0000, Martin Brown
'''newspam'''@nezumi.demon.co.uk> wrote:

On 08/01/2019 06:32, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Mon, 7 Jan 2019 12:28:49 -0800 (PST), jurb6006_at_gmail.com
wrote:

Going off the grid (not me not now but...) we are looking
at Tesla batteries for energy storage.

Forget that idea. Assuming you mean the Tesla PowerWall 1,
2, or 3, these were not designed to power anything. They
were designed to reduce your peak power usage (time of use
load shifting) thus saving you money on your electric utility
bill.

You have me interested now. I thought in the USA peak power
load was typically in mid afternoon when aircon was at full
stretch and by implication solar panels also at peak output.

http://www.caiso.com/TodaysOutlook/Pages/default.aspx> Note that
solar and wind system, as well as off-grid systems, that provide
their own power, don't appear on the graph. Only those system
that draw power from the grid appear. As such, we have peaks at
about 7 AM and 5:30 PM. The trough at noon is when solar power
is at maximum, which reduces the maximum demand.

Interesting quite how different UK and USA demand profiles are at
this time of year. UK comes up to a level plateau at 0800 until
1600 for the working day and then peaks in the early evening around
1800 as people return home to start cooking and using heating and
lighting.

https://gridwatch.templar.co.uk/

In the US we have a morning peak and a late afternoon peak. Both
peaks are due to the overlap of business and residential usage. In
the summer months the morning peak becomes insignificant to the
afternoon peak because of the AC. Of course this varies somewhat
with region. It is a large and varied country.

I take this to imply that cooked breakfasts are more common in the USA then.

Perhaps hot water? Electric heat in homes and businesses ramping up
from their nightly setback?

Is electricity widely used in the USA for heating? UK most space heating
is mains gas or oil fired where mains gas is not available. Both are
considerably cheaper than using electricity for space or water heating.


In the Southern US, yes, heat pumps are a primary heat method. That's
what I have (two units). My brother's house, as far North as Philly
also had heat pumps. Some in NY and even Vermont have resistive heat
(boggle).

"Cheaper" depends on a lot of things. You're clueless, as usual.
Quote:

Apart from demand led flash electric showers I can't see that there
should be a big hot water hit. Most hot water tanks are well insulated.


But the shower nozzles aren't (sheesh!). When you take ten or twenty
gallons out of the tank the unit will come on until it's back to
temperature. Multiply that times the number of households and you
have some real power. It doesn't matter a damn how well insulated the
tanks are. Think man!

John Larkin
Guest

Sat Jan 12, 2019 5:45 pm   



On Fri, 11 Jan 2019 12:05:39 +0000, Martin Brown
<'''newspam'''@nezumi.demon.co.uk> wrote:

Quote:
On 11/01/2019 03:51, krw_at_notreal.com wrote:
On Thu, 10 Jan 2019 09:29:11 +0000, Martin Brown
'''newspam'''@nezumi.demon.co.uk> wrote:

On 09/01/2019 19:53, gnuarm.deletethisbit_at_gmail.com wrote:
On Wednesday, January 9, 2019 at 4:08:09 AM UTC-5, Martin Brown
wrote:
On 09/01/2019 07:45, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Tue, 8 Jan 2019 08:50:22 +0000, Martin Brown
'''newspam'''@nezumi.demon.co.uk> wrote:

On 08/01/2019 06:32, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Mon, 7 Jan 2019 12:28:49 -0800 (PST), jurb6006_at_gmail.com
wrote:

Going off the grid (not me not now but...) we are looking
at Tesla batteries for energy storage.

Forget that idea. Assuming you mean the Tesla PowerWall 1,
2, or 3, these were not designed to power anything. They
were designed to reduce your peak power usage (time of use
load shifting) thus saving you money on your electric utility
bill.

You have me interested now. I thought in the USA peak power
load was typically in mid afternoon when aircon was at full
stretch and by implication solar panels also at peak output.

http://www.caiso.com/TodaysOutlook/Pages/default.aspx> Note that
solar and wind system, as well as off-grid systems, that provide
their own power, don't appear on the graph. Only those system
that draw power from the grid appear. As such, we have peaks at
about 7 AM and 5:30 PM. The trough at noon is when solar power
is at maximum, which reduces the maximum demand.

Interesting quite how different UK and USA demand profiles are at
this time of year. UK comes up to a level plateau at 0800 until
1600 for the working day and then peaks in the early evening around
1800 as people return home to start cooking and using heating and
lighting.

https://gridwatch.templar.co.uk/

In the US we have a morning peak and a late afternoon peak. Both
peaks are due to the overlap of business and residential usage. In
the summer months the morning peak becomes insignificant to the
afternoon peak because of the AC. Of course this varies somewhat
with region. It is a large and varied country.

I take this to imply that cooked breakfasts are more common in the USA then.

Perhaps hot water? Electric heat in homes and businesses ramping up
from their nightly setback?

Is electricity widely used in the USA for heating? UK most space heating
is mains gas or oil fired where mains gas is not available. Both are
considerably cheaper than using electricity for space or water heating.

Apart from demand led flash electric showers I can't see that there
should be a big hot water hit. Most hot water tanks are well insulated.


I've lived in Louisiana and California and always used natural gas for
heat and hot water and cooking.

There is a trend (back to) tankless gas water heaters, but I looked
into that and it didn't look appealing.

Lots of new houses around here have "radient heat", which is heating
grids in the floors, hot water fed by a small gas heater. It's quiet.




--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

lunatic fringe electronics


Guest

Sat Jan 12, 2019 5:45 pm   



On Sat, 12 Jan 2019 07:09:20 -0800 (PST), jurb6006_at_gmail.com wrote:

Quote:
"The world works on coordinated schedules. Changing them is not at all
simple. "

True, but they do it for daylight savings time which is one of the most stooopid things ever done by these hairless apes.


Disagree. I rather like DST. In fact I wish they'd up in another
hour (year around).


Guest

Sat Jan 12, 2019 5:45 pm   



On Fri, 11 Jan 2019 19:50:13 -0800 (PST),
gnuarm.deletethisbit_at_gmail.com wrote:

Quote:
On Friday, January 11, 2019 at 5:51:17 PM UTC-5, Mike wrote:

"Moments notice"? They don't really have to shut down 100%. They just need to scale back enough to mitigate the peak. What sort of industries can't do that?

Attention! The following workers will not be paid from 4pm to 8pm today
as we'll not be building cars on that line.

Do you really thing they expect companies to shut down on an hourly basis with no notice? If they are writing contracts to pay companies for shutting down, I'm pretty sure they are planning more than a day ahead.

Then on the other side, there are jobs where you are told on a day to day basis if you will be working or not. No, it doesn't make for a lot of job satisfaction, but it happens.

A friend had his work week cut to 32 hours for a good period. I guess the alternative is looking for a new job. When enough people do that he would get his 40 hours back I suppose. It's all better than not working.


During the 2008/9 banking crisis, we had to take a 10% pay cut because
of cash flow problems. Digikey, Avnet, and such, were shaved some too
but were willing to float the business for a while until things got
better. The employees never recovered that 10% (for about a year,
IIRC).

Quote:
So a factory that has to cut off the high power motors, heaters or electrolysis between 4 and 8 PM can still produce whatever they make the other 20 hours a day and the 4 hours shutdown of the high current stuff lets then do maintenance and such.

Was this really something you can't see, or did you just feel you needed to make a joke?


Option 'A', it appears.


Guest

Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:45 pm   



On Saturday, January 12, 2019 at 6:03:56 AM UTC-5, Mike wrote:
Quote:
On 1/11/2019 7:50 PM, gnuarm.deletethisbit_at_gmail.com wrote:
On Friday, January 11, 2019 at 5:51:17 PM UTC-5, Mike wrote:

"Moments notice"? They don't really have to shut down 100%. They just need to scale back enough to mitigate the peak. What sort of industries can't do that?

Attention! The following workers will not be paid from 4pm to 8pm today
as we'll not be building cars on that line.

Do you really thing they expect companies to shut down on an hourly basis with no notice? If they are writing contracts to pay companies for shutting down, I'm pretty sure they are planning more than a day ahead.

I made no mention of not planning ahead. What good does planning do when
the employees don't have options?


Your post is clearly emulating an announcement over a PA system telling people to go home at 4 o'clock rather than 8. That is the definition of "no notice".


Quote:
Then on the other side, there are jobs where you are told on a day to day basis if you will be working or not. No, it doesn't make for a lot of job satisfaction, but it happens.

A friend had his work week cut to 32 hours for a good period. I guess the alternative is looking for a new job. When enough people do that he would get his 40 hours back I suppose. It's all better than not working.

So a factory that has to cut off the high power motors, heaters or electrolysis between 4 and 8 PM can still produce whatever they make the other 20 hours a day and the 4 hours shutdown of the high current stuff lets then do maintenance and such.

Was this really something you can't see, or did you just feel you needed to make a joke?

You're oversimplifying a very complex interwoven society.
Who is gonna take your kids to school when your work hours interfere?
What if you gotta be home at certain hours so your wife can work?
You think the others on this long chain of consequences will be
sympathetic?


Clearly you know little about shift work. There are many jobs where you work the hours they provide or you don't work at all. If this is scheduled enough ahead people make plans accordingly.

Don't blame me for the problems it creates. It's not my system. I wouldn't tell factories when they can have power. I would make sure they *have* power.


Quote:
YOU as an individual can make a choice whether you take your bath at a time
when energy to heat the water is more available. If YOU decided when I
could take my bath, we'd have a discussion!


Now I have no idea what you are talking about. But I will say when I was a kid we had a separate meter on the hot water heater. It shut off every day at peak time and we had a lower rate because of that. For some reason the power company discontinued the program and the meter was taken out and the box sealed.


Quote:
The world works on coordinated schedules. Changing them is not at all
simple.


Tell that to the British. I guess they know nothing about schedules.


Quote:
My footprint on the planet is very small. It's my choice. I do what I can.
But I don't tell other people what to do and punish them if they don't.


Lol! You must be living like Ted Kaczynski.


Quote:
Your choices are yours and made to optimize YOUR existence.
When you choose for me, you're gonna get push back.


Tell it to the judge!

Rick C.

---- Get 6 months of free supercharging
---- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

Lasse Langwadt Christense
Guest

Sat Jan 12, 2019 11:45 pm   



lørdag den 12. januar 2019 kl. 17.11.22 UTC+1 skrev John Larkin:
Quote:
On Fri, 11 Jan 2019 12:05:39 +0000, Martin Brown
'''newspam'''@nezumi.demon.co.uk> wrote:

On 11/01/2019 03:51, krw_at_notreal.com wrote:
On Thu, 10 Jan 2019 09:29:11 +0000, Martin Brown
'''newspam'''@nezumi.demon.co.uk> wrote:

On 09/01/2019 19:53, gnuarm.deletethisbit_at_gmail.com wrote:
On Wednesday, January 9, 2019 at 4:08:09 AM UTC-5, Martin Brown
wrote:
On 09/01/2019 07:45, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Tue, 8 Jan 2019 08:50:22 +0000, Martin Brown
'''newspam'''@nezumi.demon.co.uk> wrote:

On 08/01/2019 06:32, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Mon, 7 Jan 2019 12:28:49 -0800 (PST), jurb6006_at_gmail.com
wrote:

Going off the grid (not me not now but...) we are looking
at Tesla batteries for energy storage.

Forget that idea. Assuming you mean the Tesla PowerWall 1,
2, or 3, these were not designed to power anything. They
were designed to reduce your peak power usage (time of use
load shifting) thus saving you money on your electric utility
bill.

You have me interested now. I thought in the USA peak power
load was typically in mid afternoon when aircon was at full
stretch and by implication solar panels also at peak output.

http://www.caiso.com/TodaysOutlook/Pages/default.aspx> Note that
solar and wind system, as well as off-grid systems, that provide
their own power, don't appear on the graph. Only those system
that draw power from the grid appear. As such, we have peaks at
about 7 AM and 5:30 PM. The trough at noon is when solar power
is at maximum, which reduces the maximum demand.

Interesting quite how different UK and USA demand profiles are at
this time of year. UK comes up to a level plateau at 0800 until
1600 for the working day and then peaks in the early evening around
1800 as people return home to start cooking and using heating and
lighting.

https://gridwatch.templar.co.uk/

In the US we have a morning peak and a late afternoon peak. Both
peaks are due to the overlap of business and residential usage. In
the summer months the morning peak becomes insignificant to the
afternoon peak because of the AC. Of course this varies somewhat
with region. It is a large and varied country.

I take this to imply that cooked breakfasts are more common in the USA then.

Perhaps hot water? Electric heat in homes and businesses ramping up
from their nightly setback?

Is electricity widely used in the USA for heating? UK most space heating
is mains gas or oil fired where mains gas is not available. Both are
considerably cheaper than using electricity for space or water heating.

Apart from demand led flash electric showers I can't see that there
should be a big hot water hit. Most hot water tanks are well insulated.

I've lived in Louisiana and California and always used natural gas for
heat and hot water and cooking.

There is a trend (back to) tankless gas water heaters, but I looked
into that and it didn't look appealing.

Lots of new houses around here have "radient heat", which is heating
grids in the floors, hot water fed by a small gas heater. It's quiet.


heated floors are great for comfort and it is also a good fit for the low
output temperature of heat pumps

Steve Wilson
Guest

Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:45 am   



Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt_at_fonz.dk> wrote:

Quote:
heated floors are great for comfort and it is also a good fit for the low
output temperature of heat pumps


Heat pumps are worthless. I bought a million-dollar house in Cupertino,
California that uised heat pumps. They failed as soon as it got cold.

My main focus now is heat exchangers. They give ventilation for sealed
houses but conserve the interior heat while bringing in fresh air. The
concept is very simple. Here is an example for a 1 bedroom appartment:

The heat exhanger can be a set of parallel plates separated by perhaps
0,080 inches, the diameter of 12 ga aluminum wire. The plates can be 5 mil
aluminum available on Amazon. You can easily stretch the aluminum wire to
make it straight. Cut the sheets to 12 inch squares separated by 5 runs of
12 ga wire. Alernate squares are separated by 90 degrees. PL Premium can be
used to glue the wires and plates together.

You can make the box out of standard 1/4" plywood. There are 4 chambers.
One for cold inlet air from the outside which feeds fresh inlet air to the
room.

The next chamber is stale room air crossing over to exit to the outside.

The stale room air will heat the fresh incoming air so you don't lose the
heat. The stale exhaust air will give up its heat to the fresh incoming air
so your retain the warmth. The recovery efficiency can be around 70% to
85%, which is a worthwhile savings.

The heat exchangers work the same way in the summer. The hot outside air
gives up its heat to the cold interior air exiting the heat exchanger. That
way you conserve the air conditioned ar you have paid for, but still get
fresh air to replace the stale air from your environment.

More advanced methods can recover the humidity from the air. See google for
maore details.

The blowers can be outside flush mounted blowers that use centrifugal
blowers to deliver air flow against the back pressure caused by the heat
exchanger. The whole unit can be mounted in a 20 inch square assembly that
can be mounted in a conventional window without requiring any holes or
other modifications that might upset a landlord.

Some of the urls are:

Dayton Model 1TDP7 Blower 146 CFM 3100 RPM 115V 60/50hz
$66.49
Free shipping
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Dayton-Model-1TDP7-Blower-146-CFM-3100-RPM-115V-
60-50hz/130023243?sourceid=csebr03210914501e6d40509bade638d557b086
&wmlspartner=bizratecom&affcmpid=3758489645&tmode=0000
&veh=cse&szredirectid=15469498433217831117210070302008005

St Louis Crafts Aluminum Metal Foil Sheet Roll - 36 Gauge - 12
inches x 50 feet
CDN$ 64.48

https://www.amazon.ca/Louis-Crafts-Aluminum-Metal-
Sheet/dp/B0042SR2CK/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1546409768&sr=8-4
&keywords=aluminum+roll St Louis Crafts Aluminum Metal Foil Sheet Roll - 36
Gauge - 12 inches x 50 feet: Amazon.ca: Tools & Home Improvement

Pandahall 164 Feet Silver Aluminum Craft Wire 12 Gauge Flexible Metal
by PH PandaHall
Price: CDN$ 26.99
Color Name: Silver
Size : 12 Gauge(2mm)

https://www.amazon.ca/Pandahall-Silver-Aluminum-Flexible-
Jewelry/dp/B07JK953BW/ref=sr_1_18?ie=UTF8&qid=1546438425&sr=8-18
&keywords=aluminum+wire+14+gauge

See google for more information.

Lasse Langwadt Christense
Guest

Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:45 am   



søndag den 13. januar 2019 kl. 01.00.56 UTC+1 skrev Steve Wilson:
Quote:
Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt_at_fonz.dk> wrote:

heated floors are great for comfort and it is also a good fit for the low
output temperature of heat pumps

Heat pumps are worthless. I bought a million-dollar house in Cupertino,
California that uised heat pumps. They failed as soon as it got cold.


depends on how cold it is and still better than just electricity, here many go for a ground source heatpump but it cost a bit more to establish


Quote:

My main focus now is heat exchangers. They give ventilation for sealed
houses but conserve the interior heat while bringing in fresh air. The
concept is very simple. Here is an example for a 1 bedroom appartment:


isn't that pretty much a standard add on to any ventilation system?

Chris
Guest

Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:45 am   



On 01/10/19 09:29, Martin Brown wrote:

Quote:

Regular discharge at C/4 is quite stressful for a battery. 3kW is a
typical peak load in the UK for kettles and electric fan heaters.


Far too high for lead acid and would probably degrade li pretty
fast too. Built a battery array here years ago, ex telco, lead
acid batteries, 48 volt system. Ran it during the day to reduce
grid load, then charge at night using off peak tariff. Interesting
experiment, but in no way did it pay for itself.

Pro grade lead acid gel cell tech usually has a design life of
5 years under float conditions, but far less even at 0.1 rating
under cycled conditions. Came to the conclusion it was a
compete waste of money, as is solar or wind for domestic use.
Total cost of ownership, payback time, failure rates etc. A
fools errand...

Chris


Guest

Sun Jan 13, 2019 2:45 am   



On Saturday, January 12, 2019 at 7:44:10 PM UTC-5, Chris wrote:
Quote:
On 01/10/19 09:29, Martin Brown wrote:


Regular discharge at C/4 is quite stressful for a battery. 3kW is a
typical peak load in the UK for kettles and electric fan heaters.


Far too high for lead acid and would probably degrade li pretty
fast too. Built a battery array here years ago, ex telco, lead
acid batteries, 48 volt system. Ran it during the day to reduce
grid load, then charge at night using off peak tariff. Interesting
experiment, but in no way did it pay for itself.

Pro grade lead acid gel cell tech usually has a design life of
5 years under float conditions, but far less even at 0.1 rating
under cycled conditions. Came to the conclusion it was a
compete waste of money, as is solar or wind for domestic use.
Total cost of ownership, payback time, failure rates etc. A
fools errand...


Residential solar seems to work for many people if planned appropriately. Have you looked at the numbers? Where did you get your data?

Rick C.

--+- Get 6 months of free supercharging
--+- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209


Guest

Sun Jan 13, 2019 2:45 am   



On Saturday, January 12, 2019 at 7:36:46 PM UTC-5, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
Quote:
søndag den 13. januar 2019 kl. 01.00.56 UTC+1 skrev Steve Wilson:
Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt_at_fonz.dk> wrote:

heated floors are great for comfort and it is also a good fit for the low
output temperature of heat pumps

Heat pumps are worthless. I bought a million-dollar house in Cupertino,
California that uised heat pumps. They failed as soon as it got cold.

depends on how cold it is and still better than just electricity, here many go for a ground source heatpump but it cost a bit more to establish


Of course. Steve said they failed, not that they didn't work in the cold. Heat pumps are typically rated to work down to about freezing (not sure if that's freezing in Celsius or Fahrenheit Wink. Below that they still work fine in my experience until you reach the point that the heat output is not enough to keep the house warm. So instead of automatically turning on the backup heat (often straight electric) the backup should be turned on when the set temperature isn't maintained. Straight electric is much more expensive to run, even at temperatures below freezing around here where normal nights may reach the 20's F, but seldom in the teens.


Quote:
My main focus now is heat exchangers. They give ventilation for sealed
houses but conserve the interior heat while bringing in fresh air. The
concept is very simple. Here is an example for a 1 bedroom appartment:

isn't that pretty much a standard add on to any ventilation system?


I don't know why he is going on about heat exchangers. They are for providing fresh air efficiently and have little to do with heating or cooling. To the best of my knowledge ventilation is not required in residential systems, but are in commercial spaces.

Rick C.

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