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Refrigerator current load

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ehsjr
Guest

Fri Feb 28, 2020 8:45 am   



On 2/27/2020 12:33 PM, pfjw_at_aol.com wrote:
Quote:
But it is not my fault that it is not a dedicated circuit. Nor am I
required to know whether or not it is. The owner is liable not me.

Wrong. Two reasons:

a) Ignorance is not a defense - that is, and has been, "common law" for over 2,000 years. And, yes, "common law" does apply to liability.

b) NEC requires a dedicated outlet for the refrigerator. Ipso-facto, where the refrigerator is plugged in is dedicated. And that receptacle may not be shared per the code. The reasoning may appear circular, but it remains how it would be in a pinch.

When I was doing this for a living (more than 40 years ago) we used simplex receptacles for the refrigerator line. So that down-line idiots did not make that same mistake you might make. That and any other 'dedicated' circuits, with special reference to AC, 240 V Dryer and similar circuits.

https://static.grainger.com/rp/s/is/image/Grainger/53CX77_GC01?$mdmain$

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA



Neither the logic nor the NEC apply to him plugging
a toaster into a receptacle, dedicated or not.

There is NO requirement per the NEC that the receptacle
for the 'fridge be dedicated.
(quoting the NEC)
210.52(B)(1) Receptacle Outlets Served. In the kitchen, pantry,
breakfast room, dining room, or similar area of a dwelling unit,
the two or more 20-ampere small-appliance branch circuits required
by 210.11(C)(1) shall serve all wall and floor receptacle outlets
covered by 210.52(A), all countertop outlets covered by 210.52(C),
and receptacle outlets for refrigeration equipment.


The current NEC requires that the (two or more) small appliance
circuits and receptacle be in the kitchen, wired properly etc.
It does NOT govern what the user plugs into them. Nor does it say
a circuit must be dedicated to the refrigerator.

As to the law - what law specifies that a user not
plug a toaster into a receptacle?

Ed


Guest

Fri Feb 28, 2020 1:45 pm   



On Thursday, 27 February 2020 17:33:28 UTC, pf...@aol.com wrote:

Quote:
But it is not my fault that it is not a dedicated circuit. Nor am I
required to know whether or not it is. The owner is liable not me.

Wrong. Two reasons:

a) Ignorance is not a defense - that is, and has been, "common law" for over 2,000 years. And, yes, "common law" does apply to liability.

b) NEC requires a dedicated outlet for the refrigerator. Ipso-facto, where the refrigerator is plugged in is dedicated. And that receptacle may not be shared per the code. The reasoning may appear circular, but it remains how it would be in a pinch.

When I was doing this for a living (more than 40 years ago) we used simplex receptacles for the refrigerator line. So that down-line idiots did not make that same mistake you might make. That and any other 'dedicated' circuits, with special reference to AC, 240 V Dryer and similar circuits.

https://static.grainger.com/rp/s/is/image/Grainger/53CX77_GC01?$mdmain$

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA


why would a fridge [need to be] be on its own dedicated outlet? Such a thing is unheard of here.


NT

Michael Terrell
Guest

Fri Feb 28, 2020 4:45 pm   



On Friday, February 28, 2020 at 7:26:13 AM UTC-5, tabb...@gmail.com wrote:
Quote:

why would a fridge [need to be] be on its own dedicated outlet? Such a thing is unheard of here.


It is done to prevent another device from tripping the breaker, and letting food spoil. I suppose Botulism is unheard there, as well?

John Robertson
Guest

Fri Feb 28, 2020 5:44 pm   



On 2020/02/28 7:36 a.m., Michael Terrell wrote:
Quote:
On Friday, February 28, 2020 at 7:26:13 AM UTC-5, tabb...@gmail.com wrote:

why would a fridge [need to be] be on its own dedicated outlet? Such a thing is unheard of here.


It is done to prevent another device from tripping the breaker, and letting food spoil. I suppose Botulism is unheard there, as well?


Electrical code in Canada requires refrigerators to be on a separate
outlet (with only a single power outlet, not a dual outlet as well) with
their own breaker for just that reason.

(irrational rant on)
Government electrical safety regulations, who needs them?
(irrational rant off)

John :-#)#

Ralph Mowery
Guest

Fri Feb 28, 2020 5:45 pm   



In article <bc541529-bc28-4eb5-bc37-1905b84313bb_at_googlegroups.com>,
terrell.michael.a_at_gmail.com says...
Quote:

why would a fridge [need to be] be on its own dedicated outlet? Such a thing is unheard of here.


It is done to prevent another device from tripping the breaker, and letting food spoil. I suppose Botulism is unheard there, as well?




I think there is something in the NEC about the ground fault outlets in
a basement not needing to be uses on the refrigerator/freezor outlet for
the same reason.

Like the idiot that wired a GFCI receptical and down stream was the
refrigerator receptical in a house my son bought. Ground fault tripped
and almost let the refrigerator get too warm before he caught it.

pfjw@aol.com
Guest

Fri Feb 28, 2020 6:45 pm   



On Friday, February 28, 2020 at 7:26:13 AM UTC-5, tabb...@gmail.com wrote:
Quote:
On Thursday, 27 February 2020 17:33:28 UTC, pf...@aol.com wrote:

But it is not my fault that it is not a dedicated circuit. Nor am I
required to know whether or not it is. The owner is liable not me.

Wrong. Two reasons:

a) Ignorance is not a defense - that is, and has been, "common law" for over 2,000 years. And, yes, "common law" does apply to liability.

b) NEC requires a dedicated outlet for the refrigerator. Ipso-facto, where the refrigerator is plugged in is dedicated. And that receptacle may not be shared per the code. The reasoning may appear circular, but it remains how it would be in a pinch.

When I was doing this for a living (more than 40 years ago) we used simplex receptacles for the refrigerator line. So that down-line idiots did not make that same mistake you might make. That and any other 'dedicated' circuits, with special reference to AC, 240 V Dryer and similar circuits.

https://static.grainger.com/rp/s/is/image/Grainger/53CX77_GC01?$mdmain$

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

why would a fridge [need to be] be on its own dedicated outlet? Such a thing is unheard of here.


NT


I guess this is why Brits prefer warm beer.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

Phil Allison
Guest

Fri Feb 28, 2020 7:45 pm   



tabb...@gmail.com wrote:

---------------------------

Quote:

why would a fridge [need to be] be on its own dedicated outlet?
Such a thing is unheard of here.


** IME, it is common practice here ( Australia ) to put fridges and freezers on a dedicated circuit since they often have high levels of leakage to earth.

That circuit would also not be under control on an ELCB or similar.

Otherwise, the ELCB needs to be set at an hazardous trip current to avoid outages and food spoilage.



..... Phil

Michael Terrell
Guest

Fri Feb 28, 2020 7:45 pm   



On Friday, February 28, 2020 at 12:41:19 PM UTC-5, pf...@aol.com wrote:
Quote:
On Friday, February 28, 2020 at 7:26:13 AM UTC-5, tabb...@gmail.com wrote:

why would a fridge [need to be] be on its own dedicated outlet? Such a thing is unheard of here.

I guess this is why Brits prefer warm beer.


No, it's because their refrigerators are made by Lucas! Smile

pfjw@aol.com
Guest

Fri Feb 28, 2020 10:45 pm   



Quote:
No, it's because their refrigerators are made by Lucas! Smile


Prince of Darkness, yes.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

Michael Terrell
Guest

Fri Feb 28, 2020 11:45 pm   



On Friday, February 28, 2020 at 3:55:25 PM UTC-5, pf...@aol.com wrote:
Quote:
No, it's because their refrigerators are made by Lucas! :)


Prince of Darkness, yes.


And he prefers to live in England, thank God! Smile


Guest

Fri Feb 28, 2020 11:45 pm   



On Friday, 28 February 2020 15:36:50 UTC, Michael Terrell wrote:
Quote:
On Friday, February 28, 2020 at 7:26:13 AM UTC-5, tabby wrote:

why would a fridge [need to be] be on its own dedicated outlet? Such a thing is unheard of here.


It is done to prevent another device from tripping the breaker, and letting food spoil. I suppose Botulism is unheard there, as well?


If we get a breaker trip, which doesn't happen often, people switch it back on, and if necessary plug the fridge freezer in somewhere else. It doesn't seem to be a significant issue. If you only had the fridge on the circuit it would take far longer to realise power was lost.


NT


Guest

Fri Feb 28, 2020 11:45 pm   



On Friday, 28 February 2020 18:13:58 UTC, Phil Allison wrote:
Quote:
tabby:

---------------------------


why would a fridge [need to be] be on its own dedicated outlet?
Such a thing is unheard of here.


** IME, it is common practice here ( Australia ) to put fridges and freezers on a dedicated circuit since they often have high levels of leakage to earth.


I'm not aware of ours suffering that. Why do they have alot of leakage?


Quote:
That circuit would also not be under control on an ELCB or similar.

Otherwise, the ELCB needs to be set at an hazardous trip current to avoid outages and food spoilage.



Guest

Fri Feb 28, 2020 11:45 pm   



On Friday, 28 February 2020 22:23:27 UTC, Michael Terrell wrote:
Quote:
On Friday, February 28, 2020 at 3:55:25 PM UTC-5, pf...@aol.com wrote:

No, it's because their refrigerators are made by Lucas! :)


Prince of Darkness, yes.


And he prefers to live in England, thank God! Smile


Lucas electrics weren't the ultimate, but weren't too bad really. And it was a long time ago.

I've never heard of Lucas fridges.


NT

Phil Allison
Guest

Sat Feb 29, 2020 12:45 am   



tabb...@gmail.com wrote:

-------------------------

Quote:

** IME, it is common practice here ( Australia ) to put fridges and freezers on a dedicated circuit since they often have high levels of leakage to earth.

I'm not aware of ours suffering that. Why do they have alot of leakage?



** Not answering hostile questions from fuckheads like you.

FFS Google the topic.



..... Phil

Michael Terrell
Guest

Sat Feb 29, 2020 2:45 am   



On Friday, February 28, 2020 at 5:30:25 PM UTC-5, tabb...@gmail.com wrote:
Quote:
On Friday, 28 February 2020 15:36:50 UTC, Michael Terrell wrote:
On Friday, February 28, 2020 at 7:26:13 AM UTC-5, tabby wrote:

why would a fridge [need to be] be on its own dedicated outlet? Such a thing is unheard of here.


It is done to prevent another device from tripping the breaker, and letting food spoil. I suppose Botulism is unheard there, as well?

If we get a breaker trip, which doesn't happen often, people switch it back on, and if necessary plug the fridge freezer in somewhere else. It doesn't seem to be a significant issue. If you only had the fridge on the circuit it would take far longer to realize power was lost.


If it trips with only the fridge or freezer on the circuit, resetting the breaker wouldn't do any good, if a few hundred Watt load is tripping a 20A breaker.

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