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Rob
Guest

Tue Jan 10, 2017 3:22 pm   



rickman <gnuarm_at_gmail.com> wrote:
Quote:
On 1/9/2017 1:47 PM, Rob wrote:
gm <notmy_at_mail.com> wrote:
Hi to all.

I need to create one off grid IP video intercom with RSP model 2 B.

In this project i will use
- wifi connection ( usb )
- 12V DC doorlock
- two relay board
- button for triggering call and doorbel
- USB video camera ( 320 x 240 )

The whole system is set but now i want to make the offgrid version with
some small solar panel.

Real time scenario:
- call will be triggered on button press
- at the same time, wifi connection should be activated
- camera will start to stream "low" quality stream.
- voip will be started
- automatic disconnect in 10 seconds ( or until next button click )
- trigger DC lock ( 12V, 20ma ) for 5 sec.
- dc lock will be triggered 3 times per day and that's max.
- shortly, I'm planning to use rsp in lowest possible power consumption
mode
- daily power consumptions : up to 600mA ?

The idea is to set some small 10W solar panel +rechargeable battery set
but i dont know if this should do the job because it's not quite sunny
this days :-)

Suggestions ?

It helps when you can keep it powered off until the button is pressed,
but of course then have to wait for Linux to be booted. You could
try optimizing the boot to have your system functional as fast as
possible but it depends on your requirements if it is possible to
get it fast enough.

PCs can go into hibernate mode where everything is saved to disk and the
PC will restore to operation much more quickly. Isn't there anything
like this for Linux on the rPi?

BTW, I've cross posted to the rpi group.


The Pi will draw less power when it is doing less (like a PC) but I
think there is no real "hybernate" mode from which it can be woken up
without fully restarting. That is why I mentioned booting it at the
time the button is pressed.

Of course when you have a task for a Pi that does not need a full-fledged
OS to be running it would be possible to run a simple OS or even a single
program stored on the flash card. However, it looks like the poster
requires networking, camera driver, audio streaming etc and it could be
a lot of work to code all that on the bare hardware.

Rob
Guest

Tue Jan 10, 2017 3:25 pm   



artie <artie.m_at_gNOSPAMmail.com> wrote:
Quote:
(2) activating and deactivating a WiFi connection on the fly can be
exciting (some would say it's a bad thing to do and difficult to do
reliably). Most of this excitement comes from Linux WiFi support.


I agree with that. It is junk, really.
I have a Pi that is "permanently" connected to my home WiFi but when
I restart the AP the Pi does not re-connect reliably and I have to
restart it as well.

rickman
Guest

Tue Jan 10, 2017 4:28 pm   



On 1/10/2017 3:22 AM, Rob wrote:
Quote:
rickman <gnuarm_at_gmail.com> wrote:
On 1/9/2017 1:47 PM, Rob wrote:
gm <notmy_at_mail.com> wrote:
Hi to all.

I need to create one off grid IP video intercom with RSP model 2 B.

In this project i will use
- wifi connection ( usb )
- 12V DC doorlock
- two relay board
- button for triggering call and doorbel
- USB video camera ( 320 x 240 )

The whole system is set but now i want to make the offgrid version with
some small solar panel.

Real time scenario:
- call will be triggered on button press
- at the same time, wifi connection should be activated
- camera will start to stream "low" quality stream.
- voip will be started
- automatic disconnect in 10 seconds ( or until next button click )
- trigger DC lock ( 12V, 20ma ) for 5 sec.
- dc lock will be triggered 3 times per day and that's max.
- shortly, I'm planning to use rsp in lowest possible power consumption
mode
- daily power consumptions : up to 600mA ?

The idea is to set some small 10W solar panel +rechargeable battery set
but i dont know if this should do the job because it's not quite sunny
this days :-)

Suggestions ?

It helps when you can keep it powered off until the button is pressed,
but of course then have to wait for Linux to be booted. You could
try optimizing the boot to have your system functional as fast as
possible but it depends on your requirements if it is possible to
get it fast enough.

PCs can go into hibernate mode where everything is saved to disk and the
PC will restore to operation much more quickly. Isn't there anything
like this for Linux on the rPi?

BTW, I've cross posted to the rpi group.

The Pi will draw less power when it is doing less (like a PC) but I
think there is no real "hybernate" mode from which it can be woken up
without fully restarting. That is why I mentioned booting it at the
time the button is pressed.


Hibernate is not really a "mode". It is just a matter of shutting the
processor down after saving an image of the RAM and other details to
mass storage. The idea is that restoring from hibernation is faster
than booting from scratch. I know on the PC restore from hibernation is
much faster than booting from scratch.


Quote:
Of course when you have a task for a Pi that does not need a full-fledged
OS to be running it would be possible to run a simple OS or even a single
program stored on the flash card. However, it looks like the poster
requires networking, camera driver, audio streaming etc and it could be
a lot of work to code all that on the bare hardware.


I found mention of OpenELEC which is intended for home entertainment
systems and a version for the rPi exists. I read that it boots much
faster than raspian.

Here is something else I found. An add-on board that lets the pi power
down cleanly and back up automatically. I am sure this can be
configured to bring the pi back up with a button push, but this may be
more useful when waking up on a timer.

http://www.buyapi.ca/learn/01-raspberry-pi-extended-time-lapse-camera-with-battery-power/

--

Rick C

rickman
Guest

Tue Jan 10, 2017 4:45 pm   



On 1/10/2017 3:19 AM, Rob wrote:
Quote:
edward.ming.lee_at_gmail.com <edward.ming.lee_at_gmail.com> wrote:
On Monday, January 9, 2017 at 12:25:48 PM UTC-8, Rob wrote:
edward.ming.lee_at_gmail.com <edward.ming.lee_at_gmail.com> wrote:
On Monday, January 9, 2017 at 10:29:03 AM UTC-8, gm wrote:
Hi to all.

I need to create one off grid IP video intercom with RSP model 2 B.

In this project i will use
- wifi connection ( usb )
- 12V DC doorlock
- two relay board
- button for triggering call and doorbel
- USB video camera ( 320 x 240 )

The whole system is set but now i want to make the offgrid version with
some small solar panel.

Real time scenario:
- call will be triggered on button press
- at the same time, wifi connection should be activated
- camera will start to stream "low" quality stream.
- voip will be started
- automatic disconnect in 10 seconds ( or until next button click )
- trigger DC lock ( 12V, 20ma ) for 5 sec.
- dc lock will be triggered 3 times per day and that's max.
- shortly, I'm planning to use rsp in lowest possible power consumption
mode
- daily power consumptions : up to 600mA ?

The idea is to set some small 10W solar panel +rechargeable battery set
but i dont know if this should do the job because it's not quite sunny
this days :-)

Suggestions ?

I don't know the exact power usage, but my RPI was constantly rebooting with a 1A wall plug, until i replaced it with a better 2A plug. So, 0.6A might not be enough.

During boot it draws considerably more power than once it is up and running!

With the 1A plug, it finishes booting but reboot after several minutes. This is with just hdmi and a USB cellular plug. Perhaps drawing too much current with the cellular modem kicking in.

(OP's) USB camera will probably draw even more current.

Don't exclude the possibility that your 1A charger cannot actually
supply 1A to the load. You will have to verify this as there is a lot
of junk on the market.


If you count the infinite number of PSUs sold on eBay, of which 110% are
crap, then the amount of junk on the market is rather large indeed.

I looked on eBay for the minimum priced PSU I thought might actually
work with the rPI. I never got through the low end junk that all had
the same image of the unit. One device I had for charging my cell phone
crapped out and when I took it apart found the regulator circuit was
just a transistor... that was it. Not such a great circuit for powering
a CPU.

--

Rick C

Rob
Guest

Tue Jan 10, 2017 6:41 pm   



rickman <gnuarm_at_gmail.com> wrote:
Quote:
On 1/10/2017 3:22 AM, Rob wrote:
rickman <gnuarm_at_gmail.com> wrote:
On 1/9/2017 1:47 PM, Rob wrote:
gm <notmy_at_mail.com> wrote:
Hi to all.

I need to create one off grid IP video intercom with RSP model 2 B.

In this project i will use
- wifi connection ( usb )
- 12V DC doorlock
- two relay board
- button for triggering call and doorbel
- USB video camera ( 320 x 240 )

The whole system is set but now i want to make the offgrid version with
some small solar panel.

Real time scenario:
- call will be triggered on button press
- at the same time, wifi connection should be activated
- camera will start to stream "low" quality stream.
- voip will be started
- automatic disconnect in 10 seconds ( or until next button click )
- trigger DC lock ( 12V, 20ma ) for 5 sec.
- dc lock will be triggered 3 times per day and that's max.
- shortly, I'm planning to use rsp in lowest possible power consumption
mode
- daily power consumptions : up to 600mA ?

The idea is to set some small 10W solar panel +rechargeable battery set
but i dont know if this should do the job because it's not quite sunny
this days :-)

Suggestions ?

It helps when you can keep it powered off until the button is pressed,
but of course then have to wait for Linux to be booted. You could
try optimizing the boot to have your system functional as fast as
possible but it depends on your requirements if it is possible to
get it fast enough.

PCs can go into hibernate mode where everything is saved to disk and the
PC will restore to operation much more quickly. Isn't there anything
like this for Linux on the rPi?

BTW, I've cross posted to the rpi group.

The Pi will draw less power when it is doing less (like a PC) but I
think there is no real "hybernate" mode from which it can be woken up
without fully restarting. That is why I mentioned booting it at the
time the button is pressed.

Hibernate is not really a "mode". It is just a matter of shutting the
processor down after saving an image of the RAM and other details to
mass storage. The idea is that restoring from hibernation is faster
than booting from scratch. I know on the PC restore from hibernation is
much faster than booting from scratch.


Maybe "suspend" would be a better possibility. It means the processor
is stopped and peripherals are turned off but the RAM is powered
(and supposedly refreshed). It should be quick to recover from as
the "only thing" required is re-powering and re-initializing the
peripherals (not easy at all when not foreseen in the drivers...)
and the execution can just continue where it was suspended.

However, the Pi does not offer that.

Quote:
Of course when you have a task for a Pi that does not need a full-fledged
OS to be running it would be possible to run a simple OS or even a single
program stored on the flash card. However, it looks like the poster
requires networking, camera driver, audio streaming etc and it could be
a lot of work to code all that on the bare hardware.

I found mention of OpenELEC which is intended for home entertainment
systems and a version for the rPi exists. I read that it boots much
faster than raspian.


OpenELEC is just a stripped down Linux with Kodi installed.
It is in the category "make the Linux start as fast as possible by
omitting unused services and doing as much as possible in parallel".

However, the WiFi is really slow to initialize so I don't think this
will ever bring down the startup time enough for good user experience
on a doorbell (say 3 seconds max).

With wired ethernet, maybe it is possible. But even there it depends
on driver details, used switch, is DHCP used and what server, etc.

rickman
Guest

Tue Jan 10, 2017 7:04 pm   



On 1/10/2017 6:41 AM, Rob wrote:
Quote:
rickman <gnuarm_at_gmail.com> wrote:
On 1/10/2017 3:22 AM, Rob wrote:
rickman <gnuarm_at_gmail.com> wrote:
On 1/9/2017 1:47 PM, Rob wrote:
gm <notmy_at_mail.com> wrote:
Hi to all.

I need to create one off grid IP video intercom with RSP model 2 B.

In this project i will use
- wifi connection ( usb )
- 12V DC doorlock
- two relay board
- button for triggering call and doorbel
- USB video camera ( 320 x 240 )

The whole system is set but now i want to make the offgrid version with
some small solar panel.

Real time scenario:
- call will be triggered on button press
- at the same time, wifi connection should be activated
- camera will start to stream "low" quality stream.
- voip will be started
- automatic disconnect in 10 seconds ( or until next button click )
- trigger DC lock ( 12V, 20ma ) for 5 sec.
- dc lock will be triggered 3 times per day and that's max.
- shortly, I'm planning to use rsp in lowest possible power consumption
mode
- daily power consumptions : up to 600mA ?

The idea is to set some small 10W solar panel +rechargeable battery set
but i dont know if this should do the job because it's not quite sunny
this days :-)

Suggestions ?

It helps when you can keep it powered off until the button is pressed,
but of course then have to wait for Linux to be booted. You could
try optimizing the boot to have your system functional as fast as
possible but it depends on your requirements if it is possible to
get it fast enough.

PCs can go into hibernate mode where everything is saved to disk and the
PC will restore to operation much more quickly. Isn't there anything
like this for Linux on the rPi?

BTW, I've cross posted to the rpi group.

The Pi will draw less power when it is doing less (like a PC) but I
think there is no real "hybernate" mode from which it can be woken up
without fully restarting. That is why I mentioned booting it at the
time the button is pressed.

Hibernate is not really a "mode". It is just a matter of shutting the
processor down after saving an image of the RAM and other details to
mass storage. The idea is that restoring from hibernation is faster
than booting from scratch. I know on the PC restore from hibernation is
much faster than booting from scratch.

Maybe "suspend" would be a better possibility. It means the processor
is stopped and peripherals are turned off but the RAM is powered
(and supposedly refreshed). It should be quick to recover from as
the "only thing" required is re-powering and re-initializing the
peripherals (not easy at all when not foreseen in the drivers...)
and the execution can just continue where it was suspended.

However, the Pi does not offer that.


Then why do you say it would be a "better" possibility? If it doesn't
have that feature, it is *not* a possibility.


Quote:
Of course when you have a task for a Pi that does not need a full-fledged
OS to be running it would be possible to run a simple OS or even a single
program stored on the flash card. However, it looks like the poster
requires networking, camera driver, audio streaming etc and it could be
a lot of work to code all that on the bare hardware.

I found mention of OpenELEC which is intended for home entertainment
systems and a version for the rPi exists. I read that it boots much
faster than raspian.

OpenELEC is just a stripped down Linux with Kodi installed.
It is in the category "make the Linux start as fast as possible by
omitting unused services and doing as much as possible in parallel".


Yes, that is the point.


Quote:
However, the WiFi is really slow to initialize so I don't think this
will ever bring down the startup time enough for good user experience
on a doorbell (say 3 seconds max).


Yeah, wifi sucks. But 3 seconds should be adequate. I have a hard time
finding my phone or getting to the computer faster than 3 seconds or
even 10. How long does it take to get to the door to open it?


Quote:
With wired ethernet, maybe it is possible. But even there it depends
on driver details, used switch, is DHCP used and what server, etc.



--

Rick C

Dave Liquorice
Guest

Wed Jan 11, 2017 10:06 pm   



On Mon, 9 Jan 2017 17:28:54 -0500, rickman wrote:

>>> - daily power consumptions : up to 600mA ?

It'll draw that sort of current but don't mix up "power" and
"energy".

600 mA @ 5V is 3 Watts of power or 3 * 24 = 72 Whrs of energy per
day.

Quote:
The idea is to set some small 10W solar panel +rechargeable
battery
set but i dont know if this should do the job because it's not
quite
sunny this days Smile


From the above you need 72 WHrs of useable enrgy for each 24 hour
period. Being a bit pessimistic about battery effciency and other
conversions(*) lets say 50%, so that's 144 Whrs/day input. Being a
bit generous about the solar panel, and say it'll produce 50% of it's
maximum rated power for 6 hours/day. So it needs to produce 144 Whrs
in 6 hours which means a power of 144 / 6 = 24 W but that's only 50%
of the rated power meaning the panel needs to be rated at 24 * 2 =
48W.

Rough and ready calculations but of the right sort of order. If you
want to be fairly sure of having enough energy to get through two or
three days
of dull winter days you can probably double or treble that rated
panel rating.

Battery capacity for three days, 0.6 A * 72 hours = 43 AHr make that
50 AHr plus to take into accout charge/recharge effciency. Also needs
to be a battery designed for deep discharge, not a vehicle starting
battery.

(*) Pi's live on 5 V, easily available solar panels and batteries
tend to be 12 V.

--
Cheers
Dave.

Jasen Betts
Guest

Thu Jan 12, 2017 3:28 pm   



On 2017-01-09, gm <notmy_at_mail.com> wrote:
Quote:
Hi to all.

I need to create one off grid IP video intercom with RSP model 2 B.

In this project i will use
- wifi connection ( usb )
- 12V DC doorlock
- two relay board
- button for triggering call and doorbel
- USB video camera ( 320 x 240 )

The whole system is set but now i want to make the offgrid version with
some small solar panel.

Real time scenario:
- call will be triggered on button press
- at the same time, wifi connection should be activated
- camera will start to stream "low" quality stream.
- voip will be started
- automatic disconnect in 10 seconds ( or until next button click )
- trigger DC lock ( 12V, 20ma ) for 5 sec.


20mA seems awful low, I guess you got one of the expensive ones.

Quote:
- dc lock will be triggered 3 times per day and that's max.
- shortly, I'm planning to use rsp in lowest possible power consumption
mode
- daily power consumptions : up to 600mA ?


can you power it off while not needed?

assume 10 to 20 seconds to boot.


--
This email has not been checked by half-arsed antivirus software

Jasen Betts
Guest

Thu Jan 12, 2017 3:38 pm   



On 2017-01-12, Jasen Betts <jasen_at_xnet.co.nz> wrote:
Quote:
On 2017-01-09, gm <notmy_at_mail.com> wrote:
Hi to all.

I need to create one off grid IP video intercom with RSP model 2 B.

In this project i will use
- wifi connection ( usb )
- 12V DC doorlock
- two relay board
- button for triggering call and doorbel
- USB video camera ( 320 x 240 )

The whole system is set but now i want to make the offgrid version with
some small solar panel.

Real time scenario:
- call will be triggered on button press
- at the same time, wifi connection should be activated
- camera will start to stream "low" quality stream.
- voip will be started
- automatic disconnect in 10 seconds ( or until next button click )
- trigger DC lock ( 12V, 20ma ) for 5 sec.

20mA seems awful low, I guess you got one of the expensive ones.

- dc lock will be triggered 3 times per day and that's max.
- shortly, I'm planning to use rsp in lowest possible power consumption
mode
- daily power consumptions : up to 600mA ?

can you power it off while not needed?

assume 10 to 20 seconds to boot.


Maybe install a PIR sensor so it can boot up as the customer is
potentially approaching the button. and shut down if nothing happens.

Passive infrared basically uses no power, I wireless PIR sensor that
runs for a year on one of those horrible 9v batteries. 1000mAh or whatever.

--
This email has not been checked by half-arsed antivirus software

Martin Gregorie
Guest

Thu Jan 12, 2017 3:43 pm   



On Thu, 12 Jan 2017 11:39:16 +0000, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:

Quote:
On Wed, 11 Jan 2017 20:06:12 +0000 (GMT)
"Dave Liquorice" <allsortsnotthisbit_at_howhill.com> wrote:

600 mA @ 5V is 3 Watts of power or 3 * 24 = 72 Whrs of energy per day.

snip excellent calculations

Battery capacity for three days, 0.6 A * 72 hours = 43 AHr make that 50
AHr plus to take into accout charge/recharge effciency. Also needs

That's for a 5V battery - make it 25AHr for a 12V battery.

What efficiency are you assuming for the 12v -> 5v converter? It would be
fairly dire if, say, a 7805 is used.

I'd normally open up an eBay 'USB charger' designed to be used in a car's
cigarette lighter, extract the switch-mode 12v->5v converter and put it
in a more sensible box (Maplins metal or metallic sprayed if they still
make them). This provides RF shielding and the possibility of using a
connector that the converter won't suddenly eject itself from. However,
I'm uncertain how efficient these are. Some get quite warm, so the answer
may be 'not very'.

Quote:
to be a battery designed for deep discharge, not a vehicle starting
battery.

I like Yuasa NP7-12 for this type of job but then again 7AH is plenty for
my requirements. Yuasa batteries bought anywhere with decent pricing (not
Maplins!) are generally pretty good value.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

Don Y
Guest

Thu Jan 12, 2017 4:21 pm   



On 1/12/2017 1:28 AM, Jasen Betts wrote:
Quote:
On 2017-01-09, gm <notmy_at_mail.com> wrote:
Hi to all.

I need to create one off grid IP video intercom with RSP model 2 B.

In this project i will use
- wifi connection ( usb )
- 12V DC doorlock
- two relay board
- button for triggering call and doorbel
- USB video camera ( 320 x 240 )

The whole system is set but now i want to make the offgrid version with
some small solar panel.

Real time scenario:
- call will be triggered on button press
- at the same time, wifi connection should be activated
- camera will start to stream "low" quality stream.
- voip will be started
- automatic disconnect in 10 seconds ( or until next button click )
- trigger DC lock ( 12V, 20ma ) for 5 sec.

20mA seems awful low, I guess you got one of the expensive ones.


Depends on whether he bought a "lock solenoid" or "solenoid controlled lock"
(former moves the door catch out of the way -- the "loud buzz" type -- while
the latter operates on the lock itself, typically orthogonal to a motion)

Quote:
- dc lock will be triggered 3 times per day and that's max.
- shortly, I'm planning to use rsp in lowest possible power consumption
mode
- daily power consumptions : up to 600mA ?

can you power it off while not needed?

assume 10 to 20 seconds to boot.


Don't run a bloated OS (Limbo boots nearly instantly on an rPi and has a
relatively tiny footprint -- with a little effort, you could even XIP).

Bringing the radio up will be the critical path.

Don Y
Guest

Thu Jan 12, 2017 4:21 pm   



On 1/12/2017 2:21 AM, Don Y wrote:
Quote:
Don't run a bloated OS (Limbo boots nearly instantly on an rPi and has a
relatively tiny footprint -- with a little effort, you could even XIP).


s/Limbo/Inferno/

> Bringing the radio up will be the critical path.

Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Guest

Thu Jan 12, 2017 6:39 pm   



On Wed, 11 Jan 2017 20:06:12 +0000 (GMT)
"Dave Liquorice" <allsortsnotthisbit_at_howhill.com> wrote:

Quote:
600 mA @ 5V is 3 Watts of power or 3 * 24 = 72 Whrs of energy per
day.


<snip excellent calculations>

Quote:
Battery capacity for three days, 0.6 A * 72 hours = 43 AHr make that
50 AHr plus to take into accout charge/recharge effciency. Also needs


That's for a 5V battery - make it 25AHr for a 12V battery.

Quote:
to be a battery designed for deep discharge, not a vehicle starting
battery.

(*) Pi's live on 5 V, easily available solar panels and batteries
tend to be 12 V.


--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/

Dave Liquorice
Guest

Thu Jan 12, 2017 6:45 pm   



On Thu, 12 Jan 2017 14:56:41 +0000, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:

Quote:
What efficiency are you assuming for the 12v -> 5v converter? It
would
be fairly dire if, say, a 7805 is used.

I wasn't, but Dave Liquorice was allowing 50% for battery and
conversion efficiency combined which sounds generous to me provided you
use a decent converter


Calculations "resonable ball park" rather than accurate. A high
quality DC-DC convertor can get above 90% but a 70 cent jobbie or
repurposed cheapy car 12 - 5 V USB may well struggle to get 80%.
Similar sort of numbers for the battery effciency.

80% of 100 = 80, 80% of 80 = 64. I did say my 50% was pessimistic.

Where I think I'm being really generous is with the solar panel
producing 50% of it's rated ouput for 6 hours/day. When daylight
hours aren't much longer. 25% for 4 hours might be better which
equates to a 150 W rated panel or nearer 300/400 W to provide cover
for really dull days.

--
Cheers
Dave.

Rob
Guest

Thu Jan 12, 2017 9:10 pm   



Martin Gregorie <martin_at_address-in-sig.invalid> wrote:
Quote:
What efficiency are you assuming for the 12v -> 5v converter? It would be
fairly dire if, say, a 7805 is used.


Those who still use a 7805 when you get a complete buck-mode DC-DC
converter from China for 70 cents deserve to be punished.

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