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Daniel
Guest

Wed May 21, 2014 6:38 pm   



On 21/05/14 06:27, colonel_hack_at_yahoo.com wrote:
Quote:

On Tue, 20 May 2014 12:10:49 +0100, Daniel <dxmm_at_albury.nospam.net.au
wrote:

Don't know!! The impression I got was that domestic mains supplies PF
varied reasonable as it was, due to domestic fridges, fluoro's, T.V.'s,
etc, switching on and off at different times,
They switch on/off during few cycles (allowing for a starting surge) and
run/don't run for many cycles, so the switching on & off only matters
for the overall load. The type of load does matter.


Yes, your T.V. switches on and stays on for three hours, maybe, before
it's switched off. Meanwhile your 10-15-20 neighbours have also turned
on their T.V.'s and turned them off.

And your Fridge has turned on and, later, off. And your 10-15-20
neighbours' Fridges.

Etc., Etc., Etc..

The waveform on your power lines is a very complex thing!!

Quote:
that the major power
suppliers did not worry about the domestic situation .... but in
industrial situations, yes, the major power suppliers could/would
require PF correction.
Or they bill appearant power & the major users /want/ PF correction,
Note that if you use a lot of reactive power it adds to the current on
the grid and the power company still has to put in heavier wire, so it
does cost them /something/.


It alters the phase angle between Voltage and Current in the Power
System, which will, eventually, require the power company to take
corrective action .... which they then bill *you* for, by way of
increasing the cost of power.

Daniel

Daniel
Guest

Wed May 21, 2014 6:40 pm   



On 21/05/14 06:38, Ian Field wrote:
Quote:


colonel_hack_at_yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:alpine.BSF.2.00.1405200925160.13722_at_bunrab...

On Tue, 20 May 2014 12:10:49 +0100, Daniel
dxmm_at_albury.nospam.net.au> wrote:

Don't know!! The impression I got was that domestic mains supplies PF
varied reasonable as it was, due to domestic fridges, fluoro's, T.V.'s,
etc, switching on and off at different times,
They switch on/off during few cycles (allowing for a starting surge)
and run/don't run for many cycles, so the switching on & off only
matters for the overall load. The type of load does matter.

that the major power
suppliers did not worry about the domestic situation .... but in
industrial situations, yes, the major power suppliers could/would
require PF correction.
Or they bill appearant power & the major users /want/ PF correction,
Note that if you use a lot of reactive power it adds to the current on
the grid and the power company still has to put in heavier wire, so it
does cost them /something/.

On Tue, 20 May 2014, Uncle Peter wrote:
Inductive and capacitive cancel each other out in a street. You
can't cancel out clipping.
But the clipping occurs with a relatively constant phase. It may
create a nasty current waveforms which can be a problem but that's not
what power factor refers to.

Its not power factor as I understood it to be, but it appears to have
become trendy to refer to any AC current waveform distortion as a PF issue.

In any event; the circuitry to eliminate the current blips as the
rectifier tops up the reservoir has become generally referred to as
power factor correction.


Well then, what "has become generally referred to as power factor
correction" is *WRONG*

Daniel

Uncle Peter
Guest

Wed May 21, 2014 6:41 pm   



On Wed, 21 May 2014 13:26:32 +0100, Daniel <dxmm_at_albury.nospam.net.au> wrote:

Quote:
On 21/05/14 02:21, Ian Field wrote:


"Uncle Peter" <no_at_spam.com> wrote in message
news:op.xf5xhtkzswtmtb_at_red.lan...
On Tue, 20 May 2014 12:10:49 +0100, Daniel <dxmm_at_albury.nospam.net.au
wrote:

On 20/05/14 06:53, Ian Field wrote:


"Daniel" <dxmm_at_albury.nospam.net.au> wrote in message
news:vi84v.62218$%x6.40968_at_fx16.iad...




Between each peak the reservoir cap sags a little, each peak tops it up
againd and passes a large blip of current doing so.

Yeap, but the transformer Secondary's peak voltage must exceed the
cap's voltage to then "top-up" the capacitor.

AFAIK, current regs require a PFC front end on any switcher over 50W.

Don't know!! The impression I got was that domestic mains supplies PF
varied reasonable as it was, due to domestic fridges, fluoro's, T.V.'s,
etc, switching on and off at different times, that the major power
suppliers did not worry about the domestic situation .... but in
industrial situations, yes, the major power suppliers could/would
require PF correction.

Inductive and capacitive cancel each other out in a street. You can't
cancel out clipping.

When I put an electronic ballast in the bog luminaire, I left the hefty
PFC capacitor in there to filter spikes.

Sorry, your bug zapper already had a PFC capacitor *AND* you had to add
"electronic ballast"!!

Something seems wrong there!!!


Electronic ballasts are more efficient. And the non-electronic one probably wore out.

--
You know you're getting old when:
Your friends compliment you on your new alligator shoes and you're barefoot.

Uncle Peter
Guest

Wed May 21, 2014 6:43 pm   



On Wed, 21 May 2014 13:40:41 +0100, Daniel <dxmm_at_albury.nospam.net.au> wrote:

Quote:
On 21/05/14 06:38, Ian Field wrote:


colonel_hack_at_yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:alpine.BSF.2.00.1405200925160.13722_at_bunrab...

On Tue, 20 May 2014 12:10:49 +0100, Daniel
dxmm_at_albury.nospam.net.au> wrote:

Don't know!! The impression I got was that domestic mains supplies PF
varied reasonable as it was, due to domestic fridges, fluoro's, T.V.'s,
etc, switching on and off at different times,
They switch on/off during few cycles (allowing for a starting surge)
and run/don't run for many cycles, so the switching on & off only
matters for the overall load. The type of load does matter.

that the major power
suppliers did not worry about the domestic situation .... but in
industrial situations, yes, the major power suppliers could/would
require PF correction.
Or they bill appearant power & the major users /want/ PF correction,
Note that if you use a lot of reactive power it adds to the current on
the grid and the power company still has to put in heavier wire, so it
does cost them /something/.

On Tue, 20 May 2014, Uncle Peter wrote:
Inductive and capacitive cancel each other out in a street. You
can't cancel out clipping.
But the clipping occurs with a relatively constant phase. It may
create a nasty current waveforms which can be a problem but that's not
what power factor refers to.

Its not power factor as I understood it to be, but it appears to have
become trendy to refer to any AC current waveform distortion as a PF issue.

In any event; the circuitry to eliminate the current blips as the
rectifier tops up the reservoir has become generally referred to as
power factor correction.

Well then, what "has become generally referred to as power factor
correction" is *WRONG*


No it isn't. It's a very good measurement of actual power produced versus heating in the wires. For example I had 5kW of computers with shitty "what you don't call PF", and the extension cable was getting warm at 2/3rds of it's rated load. It only gets that warm at 1.5 times its rated load with heaters.

--
The dot over the letter i is called a tittle.

Ian Field
Guest

Wed May 21, 2014 9:12 pm   



"Daniel" <dxmm_at_albury.nospam.net.au> wrote in message
news:cU0fv.139592$QE3.67093_at_fx16.iad...
Quote:
On 21/05/14 02:17, Ian Field wrote:


"Daniel" <dxmm_at_albury.nospam.net.au> wrote in message
news:saGev.2055562$pa5.723594_at_fx23.iad...
On 20/05/14 07:06, Ian Field wrote:


"Daniel" <dxmm_at_albury.nospam.net.au> wrote in message
news:c5r5v.119995$nm4.52762_at_fx27.iad...
On 22/04/14 04:26, Uncle Peter wrote:
On Mon, 21 Apr 2014 12:22:39 +0100, Daniel
dxmm_at_albury.nospam.net.au
wrote:

Snip

But surely if it's not adjusted, then it's overcompensating when the
supply is not fully loaded.

No, in a Switched Mode Power Supply, as the load varies, it is
*Switched On* for more of less of the Alternating Cycle. If the
supply's output (Current/Voltage) is falling below the required
(Current/Voltage), the Switching element/transistor is switched on for
more of the input cycle, not the input voltage!!

You must be thinking of the thyristor buck regulators in 80s colour
tellies.

T.V.'s were never my thing, so when you say "thyristor buck
regulators", I say, "What you talking'bout, Willis?!?!" (from American
T.V. sit-com from about the eighties!!)

I'm beginning to get the impression that trying to explain it to you
would be tedious and futile.

See above were I explain the operation of SMPS, which is what Uncle Peter
was originally talking about.

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Switch_mode_power_supply


When you start on about phase control in a discussion on SMPSU and PFC,
there aren't many conclusions to be drawn!

Ian Field
Guest

Wed May 21, 2014 9:25 pm   



"Uncle Peter" <no_at_spam.com> wrote in message
news:op.xf7mvhqlswtmtb_at_red.lan...
Quote:
On Wed, 21 May 2014 13:26:32 +0100, Daniel <dxmm_at_albury.nospam.net.au
wrote:

On 21/05/14 02:21, Ian Field wrote:


"Uncle Peter" <no_at_spam.com> wrote in message
news:op.xf5xhtkzswtmtb_at_red.lan...
On Tue, 20 May 2014 12:10:49 +0100, Daniel <dxmm_at_albury.nospam.net.au
wrote:

On 20/05/14 06:53, Ian Field wrote:


"Daniel" <dxmm_at_albury.nospam.net.au> wrote in message
news:vi84v.62218$%x6.40968_at_fx16.iad...




Between each peak the reservoir cap sags a little, each peak tops it
up
againd and passes a large blip of current doing so.

Yeap, but the transformer Secondary's peak voltage must exceed the
cap's voltage to then "top-up" the capacitor.

AFAIK, current regs require a PFC front end on any switcher over 50W.

Don't know!! The impression I got was that domestic mains supplies PF
varied reasonable as it was, due to domestic fridges, fluoro's,
T.V.'s,
etc, switching on and off at different times, that the major power
suppliers did not worry about the domestic situation .... but in
industrial situations, yes, the major power suppliers could/would
require PF correction.

Inductive and capacitive cancel each other out in a street. You can't
cancel out clipping.

When I put an electronic ballast in the bog luminaire, I left the hefty
PFC capacitor in there to filter spikes.

Sorry, your bug zapper already had a PFC capacitor *AND* you had to add
"electronic ballast"!!

Something seems wrong there!!!

Electronic ballasts are more efficient. And the non-electronic one
probably wore out.


The fuckwit electrician that installed the luminare fitted the wrong
ballast, from day one the florescent tube did a fair bit of buzzing and
flickering before it started - it got so much worse that I had a problem
waiting for the light to come on so I could piss!

I tried an electronic starter, there was still a long wait but at least the
light came on eventually without a major drama.

When the tube refused to strike at all, I bought a new tube and an
electronic ballast on Ebay. The old tube worked OK with the electronic
ballast and I got more or less its life expectancy from there.

When the fire alarm contractors did the corridor lights, I won a couple of
spare electronic ballasts and tubes, as well as the photo-sensor I mentioned
on chatter.

Ian Field
Guest

Wed May 21, 2014 9:32 pm   



"Daniel" <dxmm_at_albury.nospam.net.au> wrote in message
news:891fv.790523$RX7.134493_at_fx24.iad...
Quote:
On 21/05/14 06:38, Ian Field wrote:


colonel_hack_at_yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:alpine.BSF.2.00.1405200925160.13722_at_bunrab...

On Tue, 20 May 2014 12:10:49 +0100, Daniel
dxmm_at_albury.nospam.net.au> wrote:

Don't know!! The impression I got was that domestic mains supplies PF
varied reasonable as it was, due to domestic fridges, fluoro's,
T.V.'s,
etc, switching on and off at different times,
They switch on/off during few cycles (allowing for a starting surge)
and run/don't run for many cycles, so the switching on & off only
matters for the overall load. The type of load does matter.

that the major power
suppliers did not worry about the domestic situation .... but in
industrial situations, yes, the major power suppliers could/would
require PF correction.
Or they bill appearant power & the major users /want/ PF correction,
Note that if you use a lot of reactive power it adds to the current on
the grid and the power company still has to put in heavier wire, so it
does cost them /something/.

On Tue, 20 May 2014, Uncle Peter wrote:
Inductive and capacitive cancel each other out in a street. You
can't cancel out clipping.
But the clipping occurs with a relatively constant phase. It may
create a nasty current waveforms which can be a problem but that's not
what power factor refers to.

Its not power factor as I understood it to be, but it appears to have
become trendy to refer to any AC current waveform distortion as a PF
issue.

In any event; the circuitry to eliminate the current blips as the
rectifier tops up the reservoir has become generally referred to as
power factor correction.

Well then, what "has become generally referred to as power factor
correction" is *WRONG*


Nevertheless - your OPINION appears to be in the minority.

Uncle Peter
Guest

Wed May 21, 2014 9:33 pm   



On Wed, 21 May 2014 16:25:19 +0100, Ian Field <gangprobing.alien_at_ntlworld.com> wrote:

Quote:


"Uncle Peter" <no_at_spam.com> wrote in message
news:op.xf7mvhqlswtmtb_at_red.lan...
On Wed, 21 May 2014 13:26:32 +0100, Daniel <dxmm_at_albury.nospam.net.au
wrote:

On 21/05/14 02:21, Ian Field wrote:


"Uncle Peter" <no_at_spam.com> wrote in message
news:op.xf5xhtkzswtmtb_at_red.lan...
On Tue, 20 May 2014 12:10:49 +0100, Daniel <dxmm_at_albury.nospam.net.au
wrote:







Inductive and capacitive cancel each other out in a street. You can't
cancel out clipping.

When I put an electronic ballast in the bog luminaire, I left the hefty
PFC capacitor in there to filter spikes.

Sorry, your bug zapper already had a PFC capacitor *AND* you had to add
"electronic ballast"!!

Something seems wrong there!!!

Electronic ballasts are more efficient. And the non-electronic one
probably wore out.

The fuckwit electrician that installed the luminare fitted the wrong
ballast, from day one the florescent tube did a fair bit of buzzing and
flickering before it started - it got so much worse that I had a problem
waiting for the light to come on so I could piss!

I tried an electronic starter, there was still a long wait but at least the
light came on eventually without a major drama.

When the tube refused to strike at all, I bought a new tube and an
electronic ballast on Ebay. The old tube worked OK with the electronic
ballast and I got more or less its life expectancy from there.

When the fire alarm contractors did the corridor lights, I won a couple of
spare electronic ballasts and tubes, as well as the photo-sensor I mentioned
on chatter.


When one of my fluorescent fittings dies, I remove the fitting and fit something that takes LEDs.

--
A budget is just a method of worrying before you spend money, as well as afterwards.

Ian Field
Guest

Thu May 22, 2014 1:25 am   



"Uncle Peter" <no_at_spam.com> wrote in message
news:op.xf7uuanlswtmtb_at_red.lan...
Quote:
On Wed, 21 May 2014 16:25:19 +0100, Ian Field
gangprobing.alien_at_ntlworld.com> wrote:



"Uncle Peter" <no_at_spam.com> wrote in message
news:op.xf7mvhqlswtmtb_at_red.lan...
On Wed, 21 May 2014 13:26:32 +0100, Daniel <dxmm_at_albury.nospam.net.au
wrote:

On 21/05/14 02:21, Ian Field wrote:


"Uncle Peter" <no_at_spam.com> wrote in message
news:op.xf5xhtkzswtmtb_at_red.lan...
On Tue, 20 May 2014 12:10:49 +0100, Daniel
dxmm_at_albury.nospam.net.au
wrote:







Inductive and capacitive cancel each other out in a street. You
can't
cancel out clipping.

When I put an electronic ballast in the bog luminaire, I left the
hefty
PFC capacitor in there to filter spikes.

Sorry, your bug zapper already had a PFC capacitor *AND* you had to add
"electronic ballast"!!

Something seems wrong there!!!

Electronic ballasts are more efficient. And the non-electronic one
probably wore out.

The fuckwit electrician that installed the luminare fitted the wrong
ballast, from day one the florescent tube did a fair bit of buzzing and
flickering before it started - it got so much worse that I had a problem
waiting for the light to come on so I could piss!

I tried an electronic starter, there was still a long wait but at least
the
light came on eventually without a major drama.

When the tube refused to strike at all, I bought a new tube and an
electronic ballast on Ebay. The old tube worked OK with the electronic
ballast and I got more or less its life expectancy from there.

When the fire alarm contractors did the corridor lights, I won a couple
of
spare electronic ballasts and tubes, as well as the photo-sensor I
mentioned
on chatter.

When one of my fluorescent fittings dies, I remove the fitting and fit
something that takes LEDs.


The housing association insisted on a splashproof luminare in the bog - I
only just managed to persuade the electrician not to put one in the kitchen
too.

A few years ago Morrisons did a special offer of CFLs for 99p - then
extended the offer to buy one get one free, at that price I filled a couple
of carrier bags.

While LED bulbs are still at least 9.99 and I'd need 3 to give the same
light as a CFL, there isn't much incentive to make the change.

There's not much point figuring out a conversion for the enclosed unit that
I have 2 spare ballasts and 2 spare tubes for - way back when I bought
replacement parts, there weren't the options that are available now.

Might start visiting the dump again - if I can salvage a few GU10 fittings,
Home Bargains sometimes have 5W bulbs that are allegedly equal to 40W - 3 of
those in the bog fitting should be plenty.

Just out of curiosity - does a GU10 fit in the socket for a florescent
starter?

Uncle Peter
Guest

Thu May 22, 2014 1:42 am   



On Wed, 21 May 2014 20:25:54 +0100, Ian Field <gangprobing.alien_at_ntlworld.com> wrote:

Quote:


"Uncle Peter" <no_at_spam.com> wrote in message
news:op.xf7uuanlswtmtb_at_red.lan...
On Wed, 21 May 2014 16:25:19 +0100, Ian Field
gangprobing.alien_at_ntlworld.com> wrote:



"Uncle Peter" <no_at_spam.com> wrote in message
news:op.xf7mvhqlswtmtb_at_red.lan...
On Wed, 21 May 2014 13:26:32 +0100, Daniel <dxmm_at_albury.nospam.net.au
wrote:

On 21/05/14 02:21, Ian Field wrote:








Sorry, your bug zapper already had a PFC capacitor *AND* you had to add
"electronic ballast"!!

Something seems wrong there!!!

Electronic ballasts are more efficient. And the non-electronic one
probably wore out.

The fuckwit electrician that installed the luminare fitted the wrong
ballast, from day one the florescent tube did a fair bit of buzzing and
flickering before it started - it got so much worse that I had a problem
waiting for the light to come on so I could piss!

I tried an electronic starter, there was still a long wait but at least
the
light came on eventually without a major drama.

When the tube refused to strike at all, I bought a new tube and an
electronic ballast on Ebay. The old tube worked OK with the electronic
ballast and I got more or less its life expectancy from there.

When the fire alarm contractors did the corridor lights, I won a couple
of
spare electronic ballasts and tubes, as well as the photo-sensor I
mentioned
on chatter.

When one of my fluorescent fittings dies, I remove the fitting and fit
something that takes LEDs.

The housing association insisted on a splashproof luminare in the bog - I
only just managed to persuade the electrician not to put one in the kitchen
too.


Who gives a fuck what they insist on? When he leaves, remove it.

Quote:
A few years ago Morrisons did a special offer of CFLs for 99p - then
extended the offer to buy one get one free, at that price I filled a couple
of carrier bags.

While LED bulbs are still at least 9.99 and I'd need 3 to give the same
light as a CFL, there isn't much incentive to make the change.


15 gives you 150W equivalent. 10 gives you 100W equivalent. 3 gives you 50W equivalent. And that's including postage.

Quote:
There's not much point figuring out a conversion for the enclosed unit that
I have 2 spare ballasts and 2 spare tubes for - way back when I bought
replacement parts, there weren't the options that are available now.

Might start visiting the dump again - if I can salvage a few GU10 fittings,
Home Bargains sometimes have 5W bulbs that are allegedly equal to 40W - 3 of
those in the bog fitting should be plenty.


LEDs that fit in GU10s run very hot and don't last long. I've gone off CREE LEDs and go for the corn on the cob ones. Hundreds of tiny SMD LEDs.

Quote:
Just out of curiosity - does a GU10 fit in the socket for a florescent
starter?


I can't tell you that as I gave away my 4 spare starters on freecycle, and for some reason the only remaining ballast fluorescent here (under a kitchen wall unit) has no starter I can see. Unless it's hidden on the side against the floor of the cupboard, or internal. They do look similar sockets though.

--
I do not think it is necessary to believe that the same god who has given us our senses, reason, and intelligence wished us to abandon their use, giving us by some other means the information that we could gain through them -- Galileo Galilei

Ian Field
Guest

Thu May 22, 2014 2:51 am   



"Uncle Peter" <no_at_spam.com> wrote in message
news:op.xf76dklzswtmtb_at_red.lan...
Quote:
On Wed, 21 May 2014 20:25:54 +0100, Ian Field
gangprobing.alien_at_ntlworld.com> wrote:



"Uncle Peter" <no_at_spam.com> wrote in message
news:op.xf7uuanlswtmtb_at_red.lan...
On Wed, 21 May 2014 16:25:19 +0100, Ian Field
gangprobing.alien_at_ntlworld.com> wrote:



"Uncle Peter" <no_at_spam.com> wrote in message
news:op.xf7mvhqlswtmtb_at_red.lan...
On Wed, 21 May 2014 13:26:32 +0100, Daniel <dxmm_at_albury.nospam.net.au
wrote:

On 21/05/14 02:21, Ian Field wrote:








Sorry, your bug zapper already had a PFC capacitor *AND* you had to
add
"electronic ballast"!!

Something seems wrong there!!!

Electronic ballasts are more efficient. And the non-electronic one
probably wore out.

The fuckwit electrician that installed the luminare fitted the wrong
ballast, from day one the florescent tube did a fair bit of buzzing and
flickering before it started - it got so much worse that I had a
problem
waiting for the light to come on so I could piss!

I tried an electronic starter, there was still a long wait but at least
the
light came on eventually without a major drama.

When the tube refused to strike at all, I bought a new tube and an
electronic ballast on Ebay. The old tube worked OK with the electronic
ballast and I got more or less its life expectancy from there.

When the fire alarm contractors did the corridor lights, I won a couple
of
spare electronic ballasts and tubes, as well as the photo-sensor I
mentioned
on chatter.

When one of my fluorescent fittings dies, I remove the fitting and fit
something that takes LEDs.

The housing association insisted on a splashproof luminare in the bog - I
only just managed to persuade the electrician not to put one in the
kitchen
too.

Who gives a fuck what they insist on? When he leaves, remove it.

A few years ago Morrisons did a special offer of CFLs for 99p - then
extended the offer to buy one get one free, at that price I filled a
couple
of carrier bags.

While LED bulbs are still at least 9.99 and I'd need 3 to give the same
light as a CFL, there isn't much incentive to make the change.

15 gives you 150W equivalent. 10 gives you 100W equivalent. 3 gives
you 50W equivalent. And that's including postage.

There's not much point figuring out a conversion for the enclosed unit
that
I have 2 spare ballasts and 2 spare tubes for - way back when I bought
replacement parts, there weren't the options that are available now.

Might start visiting the dump again - if I can salvage a few GU10
fittings,
Home Bargains sometimes have 5W bulbs that are allegedly equal to 40W - 3
of
those in the bog fitting should be plenty.

LEDs that fit in GU10s run very hot and don't last long. I've gone off
CREE LEDs and go for the corn on the cob ones. Hundreds of tiny SMD LEDs.


HB have had 2 types - a 4W with 4 SMD LEDs and a very tiny switcher PCB
inside the body, and a 5W one with 24 simpler SMD LEDs and a wattless
dropper.

Several in an enclosure could be a heat problem, so I'd prefer the watless
dropper type when they have any in.

Uncle Peter
Guest

Thu May 22, 2014 3:02 am   



On Wed, 21 May 2014 21:51:54 +0100, Ian Field <gangprobing.alien_at_ntlworld.com> wrote:

Quote:


"Uncle Peter" <no_at_spam.com> wrote in message
news:op.xf76dklzswtmtb_at_red.lan...
On Wed, 21 May 2014 20:25:54 +0100, Ian Field
gangprobing.alien_at_ntlworld.com> wrote:



"Uncle Peter" <no_at_spam.com> wrote in message
news:op.xf7uuanlswtmtb_at_red.lan...
On Wed, 21 May 2014 16:25:19 +0100, Ian Field
gangprobing.alien_at_ntlworld.com> wrote:



"Uncle Peter" <no_at_spam.com> wrote in message
news:op.xf7mvhqlswtmtb_at_red.lan...










The fuckwit electrician that installed the luminare fitted the wrong
ballast, from day one the florescent tube did a fair bit of buzzing and
flickering before it started - it got so much worse that I had a
problem
waiting for the light to come on so I could piss!

I tried an electronic starter, there was still a long wait but at least
the
light came on eventually without a major drama.

When the tube refused to strike at all, I bought a new tube and an
electronic ballast on Ebay. The old tube worked OK with the electronic
ballast and I got more or less its life expectancy from there.

When the fire alarm contractors did the corridor lights, I won a couple
of
spare electronic ballasts and tubes, as well as the photo-sensor I
mentioned
on chatter.

When one of my fluorescent fittings dies, I remove the fitting and fit
something that takes LEDs.

The housing association insisted on a splashproof luminare in the bog - I
only just managed to persuade the electrician not to put one in the
kitchen
too.

Who gives a fuck what they insist on? When he leaves, remove it.

A few years ago Morrisons did a special offer of CFLs for 99p - then
extended the offer to buy one get one free, at that price I filled a
couple
of carrier bags.

While LED bulbs are still at least 9.99 and I'd need 3 to give the same
light as a CFL, there isn't much incentive to make the change.

15 gives you 150W equivalent. 10 gives you 100W equivalent. 3 gives
you 50W equivalent. And that's including postage.

There's not much point figuring out a conversion for the enclosed unit
that
I have 2 spare ballasts and 2 spare tubes for - way back when I bought
replacement parts, there weren't the options that are available now.

Might start visiting the dump again - if I can salvage a few GU10
fittings,
Home Bargains sometimes have 5W bulbs that are allegedly equal to 40W - 3
of
those in the bog fitting should be plenty.

LEDs that fit in GU10s run very hot and don't last long. I've gone off
CREE LEDs and go for the corn on the cob ones. Hundreds of tiny SMD LEDs.

HB have had 2 types - a 4W with 4 SMD LEDs and a very tiny switcher PCB
inside the body, and a 5W one with 24 simpler SMD LEDs and a wattless
dropper.

Several in an enclosure could be a heat problem, so I'd prefer the watless
dropper type when they have any in.


I'd recommend you go for whatever has more LEDs. The big 1-2W LEDs simply cannot be cooled well enough.

--
The man who fell into an upholstery machine is fully recovered.

Uncle Peter
Guest

Thu May 22, 2014 3:03 am   



On Wed, 21 May 2014 21:51:54 +0100, Ian Field <gangprobing.alien_at_ntlworld.com> wrote:

Quote:


"Uncle Peter" <no_at_spam.com> wrote in message
news:op.xf76dklzswtmtb_at_red.lan...
On Wed, 21 May 2014 20:25:54 +0100, Ian Field
gangprobing.alien_at_ntlworld.com> wrote:



"Uncle Peter" <no_at_spam.com> wrote in message
news:op.xf7uuanlswtmtb_at_red.lan...
On Wed, 21 May 2014 16:25:19 +0100, Ian Field
gangprobing.alien_at_ntlworld.com> wrote:



"Uncle Peter" <no_at_spam.com> wrote in message
news:op.xf7mvhqlswtmtb_at_red.lan...










The fuckwit electrician that installed the luminare fitted the wrong
ballast, from day one the florescent tube did a fair bit of buzzing and
flickering before it started - it got so much worse that I had a
problem
waiting for the light to come on so I could piss!

I tried an electronic starter, there was still a long wait but at least
the
light came on eventually without a major drama.

When the tube refused to strike at all, I bought a new tube and an
electronic ballast on Ebay. The old tube worked OK with the electronic
ballast and I got more or less its life expectancy from there.

When the fire alarm contractors did the corridor lights, I won a couple
of
spare electronic ballasts and tubes, as well as the photo-sensor I
mentioned
on chatter.

When one of my fluorescent fittings dies, I remove the fitting and fit
something that takes LEDs.

The housing association insisted on a splashproof luminare in the bog - I
only just managed to persuade the electrician not to put one in the
kitchen
too.

Who gives a fuck what they insist on? When he leaves, remove it.

A few years ago Morrisons did a special offer of CFLs for 99p - then
extended the offer to buy one get one free, at that price I filled a
couple
of carrier bags.

While LED bulbs are still at least 9.99 and I'd need 3 to give the same
light as a CFL, there isn't much incentive to make the change.

15 gives you 150W equivalent. 10 gives you 100W equivalent. 3 gives
you 50W equivalent. And that's including postage.

There's not much point figuring out a conversion for the enclosed unit
that
I have 2 spare ballasts and 2 spare tubes for - way back when I bought
replacement parts, there weren't the options that are available now.

Might start visiting the dump again - if I can salvage a few GU10
fittings,
Home Bargains sometimes have 5W bulbs that are allegedly equal to 40W - 3
of
those in the bog fitting should be plenty.

LEDs that fit in GU10s run very hot and don't last long. I've gone off
CREE LEDs and go for the corn on the cob ones. Hundreds of tiny SMD LEDs.

HB have had 2 types - a 4W with 4 SMD LEDs and a very tiny switcher PCB
inside the body, and a 5W one with 24 simpler SMD LEDs and a wattless
dropper.

Several in an enclosure could be a heat problem, so I'd prefer the watless
dropper type when they have any in.


Look on Ebay, there are much cheaper better ones. But buy them from a UK seller who is registered in the UK (not just posting from a port in the UK). Otherwise the distance selling regulations won't help you if they fail.

--
"Click cancel to discontinue starting" - Mac OS 9

Ian Field
Guest

Thu May 22, 2014 3:20 am   



"Uncle Peter" <no_at_spam.com> wrote in message
news:op.xf792sryswtmtb_at_red.lan...
Quote:
On Wed, 21 May 2014 21:51:54 +0100, Ian Field
gangprobing.alien_at_ntlworld.com> wrote:



"Uncle Peter" <no_at_spam.com> wrote in message
news:op.xf76dklzswtmtb_at_red.lan...
On Wed, 21 May 2014 20:25:54 +0100, Ian Field
gangprobing.alien_at_ntlworld.com> wrote:



"Uncle Peter" <no_at_spam.com> wrote in message
news:op.xf7uuanlswtmtb_at_red.lan...
On Wed, 21 May 2014 16:25:19 +0100, Ian Field
gangprobing.alien_at_ntlworld.com> wrote:



"Uncle Peter" <no_at_spam.com> wrote in message
news:op.xf7mvhqlswtmtb_at_red.lan...










The fuckwit electrician that installed the luminare fitted the wrong
ballast, from day one the florescent tube did a fair bit of buzzing
and
flickering before it started - it got so much worse that I had a
problem
waiting for the light to come on so I could piss!

I tried an electronic starter, there was still a long wait but at
least
the
light came on eventually without a major drama.

When the tube refused to strike at all, I bought a new tube and an
electronic ballast on Ebay. The old tube worked OK with the
electronic
ballast and I got more or less its life expectancy from there.

When the fire alarm contractors did the corridor lights, I won a
couple
of
spare electronic ballasts and tubes, as well as the photo-sensor I
mentioned
on chatter.

When one of my fluorescent fittings dies, I remove the fitting and fit
something that takes LEDs.

The housing association insisted on a splashproof luminare in the bog -
I
only just managed to persuade the electrician not to put one in the
kitchen
too.

Who gives a fuck what they insist on? When he leaves, remove it.

A few years ago Morrisons did a special offer of CFLs for 99p - then
extended the offer to buy one get one free, at that price I filled a
couple
of carrier bags.

While LED bulbs are still at least 9.99 and I'd need 3 to give the
same
light as a CFL, there isn't much incentive to make the change.

15 gives you 150W equivalent. 10 gives you 100W equivalent. 3 gives
you 50W equivalent. And that's including postage.

There's not much point figuring out a conversion for the enclosed unit
that
I have 2 spare ballasts and 2 spare tubes for - way back when I bought
replacement parts, there weren't the options that are available now.

Might start visiting the dump again - if I can salvage a few GU10
fittings,
Home Bargains sometimes have 5W bulbs that are allegedly equal to 40W -
3
of
those in the bog fitting should be plenty.

LEDs that fit in GU10s run very hot and don't last long. I've gone off
CREE LEDs and go for the corn on the cob ones. Hundreds of tiny SMD
LEDs.

HB have had 2 types - a 4W with 4 SMD LEDs and a very tiny switcher PCB
inside the body, and a 5W one with 24 simpler SMD LEDs and a wattless
dropper.

Several in an enclosure could be a heat problem, so I'd prefer the
watless
dropper type when they have any in.

I'd recommend you go for whatever has more LEDs. The big 1-2W LEDs simply
cannot be cooled well enough.


The 4W one has 4x lens capped LEDs with a molded lens plate that fits over
the lot so you don't get 4 little beams, the 5W variety has 24 simple SMD
LEDs with no lens as such - much better spread of light IWHT.

I estimated that each of the 24 LEDs is dissipating around 200mW, I saw an
ad for very similar looking parts that suggested they might be rated 600mW.

No surprise that many LEDs, closely packed with not a lot in the way of
heatsink would be derated to allow for heat generation.

Uncle Peter
Guest

Thu May 22, 2014 3:26 am   



On Wed, 21 May 2014 22:20:36 +0100, Ian Field <gangprobing.alien_at_ntlworld.com> wrote:

Quote:


"Uncle Peter" <no_at_spam.com> wrote in message
news:op.xf792sryswtmtb_at_red.lan...
On Wed, 21 May 2014 21:51:54 +0100, Ian Field
gangprobing.alien_at_ntlworld.com> wrote:



"Uncle Peter" <no_at_spam.com> wrote in message
news:op.xf76dklzswtmtb_at_red.lan...
On Wed, 21 May 2014 20:25:54 +0100, Ian Field
gangprobing.alien_at_ntlworld.com> wrote:



"Uncle Peter" <no_at_spam.com> wrote in message
news:op.xf7uuanlswtmtb_at_red.lan...












The housing association insisted on a splashproof luminare in the bog -
I
only just managed to persuade the electrician not to put one in the
kitchen
too.

Who gives a fuck what they insist on? When he leaves, remove it.

A few years ago Morrisons did a special offer of CFLs for 99p - then
extended the offer to buy one get one free, at that price I filled a
couple
of carrier bags.

While LED bulbs are still at least 9.99 and I'd need 3 to give the
same
light as a CFL, there isn't much incentive to make the change.

15 gives you 150W equivalent. 10 gives you 100W equivalent. 3 gives
you 50W equivalent. And that's including postage.

There's not much point figuring out a conversion for the enclosed unit
that
I have 2 spare ballasts and 2 spare tubes for - way back when I bought
replacement parts, there weren't the options that are available now.

Might start visiting the dump again - if I can salvage a few GU10
fittings,
Home Bargains sometimes have 5W bulbs that are allegedly equal to 40W -
3
of
those in the bog fitting should be plenty.

LEDs that fit in GU10s run very hot and don't last long. I've gone off
CREE LEDs and go for the corn on the cob ones. Hundreds of tiny SMD
LEDs.

HB have had 2 types - a 4W with 4 SMD LEDs and a very tiny switcher PCB
inside the body, and a 5W one with 24 simpler SMD LEDs and a wattless
dropper.

Several in an enclosure could be a heat problem, so I'd prefer the
watless
dropper type when they have any in.

I'd recommend you go for whatever has more LEDs. The big 1-2W LEDs simply
cannot be cooled well enough.

The 4W one has 4x lens capped LEDs with a molded lens plate that fits over
the lot so you don't get 4 little beams,


That sounds like CREE LEDs. The kind I have in GU10 that last about 4-6 months.

Quote:
the 5W variety has 24 simple SMD
LEDs with no lens as such - much better spread of light IWHT.


Yes. I like the corn on the cob as the light comes out all round it and the end, just like a CFL.

Quote:
I estimated that each of the 24 LEDs is dissipating around 200mW, I saw an
ad for very similar looking parts that suggested they might be rated 600mW.

No surprise that many LEDs, closely packed with not a lot in the way of
heatsink would be derated to allow for heat generation.


The corn on the cobs I have have the LEDs (and the solder joints with up to 150V DC!) exposed.

--
In the Nintendo GameCube instruction manual:
"Do not attempt to stick head inside deck, which may result in injury"

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