phone light problem

Tue Jan 31, 2012 2:19 am   

On Mon, 30 Jan 2012 21:38:18 +0000 (UTC), gregz <zekor_at_comcast.net>
wrote:


Yes (maybe)

If the two circuits are opposite phase and delivering equal currents,
then there will be no current in the neutral - the return currents
from the two circuits cancel.

If the two circuits are in phase, then the return currents add, and
you could get 60 amps in the neutral.

If the added circuits come from a 2 pole breaker in a common 120/240V
breaker panel, they will be on opposite phases.


--
Peter Bennett, VE7CEI
peterbb (at) telus.net
GPS and NMEA info: http://vancouver-webpages.com/peter
Vancouver Power Squadron: http://vancouver.powersquadron.ca

Tue Jan 31, 2012 4:08 am   

Hi John,

I think peoples' criticism of my plan holds merit. I think instead I am
going to run a separate 12/2 wg to each air conditioner (4 of them) and give
each of them a 20-30 amp breaker. Then for the shop I am going to run a
10/3 wg to pull 30 amps on each leg for 240vac. I don't have any 240vac
shop equipment now, but it will be there if I ever do. In the meantime I
can run 120vac equipment from one or both of the legs. I think I am going
to run all the wires under the trailer in the crawl space instead of through
the inside of the trailer. I think I am going to bury the 10/3 wg between
the trailer and the shop.

We were sailing to port, it couldn't have been more than just 5 knots. The
traveler rope snagged on a pile and brought the boat to a dead stop. It
knocked me on my ass. If that's what 5 mph can do, I don't want to think
about a 55mph collision in a vehicle. It would knock me out of the ball
park. If I had my safety belts on they would probably break my neck. Our
troopers have a grim job investigating car accidents. Anyway that was the
last time I sailed. I got cold feet. My girlfriend was sailing with me and
still laughs at her memory of the sight of me getting knocked on my ass and
when I got up getting hammered with the swinging boom. Jon

"John Ferrell" wrote in message
news:2nmdi7tv39p10saqqeg7q80c5pmfeth9ec_at_4ax.com...

Hello Jon,
Your post seems to have brought out the worst in the group. Normally
they are helpful rather than hostile. Perhaps they are fulfilling some
personal needs that I lack. I will regard the non-responsive answers
as noise to be ignored.

According to the table in Wikipedia,
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_wire_gauge)
10 Gauge wire should be used with a 30 amp breaker. Not only is it
going to overheat at higher currents than its ratings but it could
result in a fire that would destroy your home.

I would consider running the two separate lines to the air
conditioners and to the shop since you have no immediate need for both
sides in either place. Each with separate 30 amp breakers. 30 amps
should be adequate for most shop tools.

Please note that I am not an electrician!

Looking at your web site I see that you are a skilled craftsman. That
is certainly a beautiful boat. I used to have a sailboat and I too,
have encountered a mean boom.

You are way beyond me with your Math. I am always interested in math
solutions but I cannot say that I am close to your level. My current
math interests are with software defined radios and FFT. Digital
signal processing is the future of communications.

As for performing a menial job, sometimes stress avoidance at work
allows more freedom for think about the things that are really
important. I have known several Postmen and Farmers that were able to
pursue their dreams because their work was not challenging.

I live in North Carolina now, but I used to live outside of Columbus
Ohio. The picture of your boat shop was probably taken in December. We
don't have many days like that here. It was certainly good of your
brother to build the Boat shop.

My email is John Ferrell <W8CCW_at_arrl.net> if you want to contact me
direct.

-- Hope to see you later... John

with On Sat, 28 Jan 2012 17:59:04 -0500, "Jon" <intrepid_at_bellaire.tv>
wrote:

Tue Jan 31, 2012 7:19 pm   

On Mon, 30 Jan 2012 22:08:31 -0500, "Jon" <intrepid_at_bellaire.tv>
wrote:


With #12 wire, the breaker must not be rated at more than 20 amps.


If you intend to bury the cable, you must use cable intended for
direct burial. The cable commonly used for house wiring is not
intended for direct burial or constant exposure to water.


--
Peter Bennett, VE7CEI
peterbb (at) telus.net
GPS and NMEA info: http://vancouver-webpages.com/peter
Vancouver Power Squadron: http://vancouver.powersquadron.ca

Wed Feb 01, 2012 12:17 am   

In article <p0cgi711n4v1eusmvtt5s7qng99ggnikcs_at_news.supernews.com>,
Peter Bennett <peterbb_at_somewhere.invalid> wrote:


This may or may not be legal.

When I wanted to run a feed from my garage to my darkroom (shed) some
years ago, a distance of about 10 feet, I buried some ordinary 1.1/4"
plastic waste pipe, sort of stuff you'd plumb your sink or wash-basin
waste with, and ran the cable through that. It's about 18" below ground,
both ends are in the dry, and there's a concrete path laid over the top.

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Wed Feb 01, 2012 1:30 am   

Stuart wrote:

The use of plumbing pipe makes it illegal in locations where
the NEC applies.

Ed

Wed Feb 01, 2012 2:18 am   

On Tue, 31 Jan 2012 22:17:52 +0000 (GMT), Stuart <Spambin_at_argonet.co.uk>
wrote:


Direct burial cable is legal in most jurisdictions.


That's not. Use conduit intended for wiring. It's not expensive.

Wed Feb 01, 2012 11:24 am   

In article <jk4hi798lbiauja24g6tvpli3d7i2cdbdq_at_4ax.com>,
krw_at_att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz <krw_at_att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:

Well plastic conduit is very common these days, explain the difference.
<g>

Note. This was some 25 years ago and it's still there, although the shed
isn't a darkroom anymore, just storage.

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Wed Feb 01, 2012 11:23 pm   

The wiring on my well looks like regular house wire and it was
installed by professionals & inspected. I think it is OK as long as it
is deep enough to be unlikely to be damaged.

I am inclined to take a risk sometimes. Some things are just worth it.
Sailing can be a lot of fun. As I get older, I am getting down right
anal about some things. Since I had my knees replaced I am very
careful about not falling. I just don't walk in the dark unless I have
a flash light!

I think you are on the right track with the wiring. Safety is no joke.
I serve on the local Volunteer Fire department as Board President.
Sometimes I think the young fellows only do it right to avoid my
safety lecture!

On Mon, 30 Jan 2012 22:08:31 -0500, "Jon" <intrepid_at_bellaire.tv>
wrote:

Thu Feb 02, 2012 2:01 am   

On Wed, 01 Feb 2012 09:24:55 +0000 (GMT), Stuart <Spambin_at_argonet.co.uk>
wrote:




Irrelevant. A lot of code violations have been around for 24 years.

Thu Feb 02, 2012 4:17 am   

Stuart wrote:

The pertinent difference as far as the NEC is concerned is in
testing and listing of the equipment (plumbing pipe, in this case)
used in the installation.

Plumbing pipe has neither been tested nor listed by a recognized
electrical testing lab such as UL for use as electrical conduit.
See NEC articles 90.7, 110.2 and 110.3, as wellas article 100
for the NEC definition of "listed".

Ed

Sat Feb 04, 2012 10:50 pm   

I am using 100' of 10/2 wg UL wire rated for outdoors/burial to run under my
trailer (stapled up) and to the shop (burial). On the way there I want to
power 2 outlets for 2 air conditioners. I am drilling holes in the floor
next to the baseboards and fishing a 12/2 wg down to the 10/2 wire. At the
junctions I am putting a metal boxes, soldering and taping all connections
(175 watt soldering iron). I am running this circuit off a 30 amp single
pole breaker. The shop doesn't have any 240vac equipment, it's all 120vac,
a small band saw and a light duty table saw. I might put up some florescent
lights sometime.

The rats really do a number on my wire insulation. I'd like to run the
wiring inside the trailer (in the living space) but I don't want to risk ac
interference with my phone/data lines.

"John Ferrell" wrote in message
news:pqdji71p20fdkht5a5rdvdb6lv3j7nig2c_at_4ax.com...

The wiring on my well looks like regular house wire and it was
installed by professionals & inspected. I think it is OK as long as it
is deep enough to be unlikely to be damaged.

I am inclined to take a risk sometimes. Some things are just worth it.
Sailing can be a lot of fun. As I get older, I am getting down right
anal about some things. Since I had my knees replaced I am very
careful about not falling. I just don't walk in the dark unless I have
a flash light!

I think you are on the right track with the wiring. Safety is no joke.
I serve on the local Volunteer Fire department as Board President.
Sometimes I think the young fellows only do it right to avoid my
safety lecture!

On Mon, 30 Jan 2012 22:08:31 -0500, "Jon" <intrepid_at_bellaire.tv>
wrote:

Sat Feb 04, 2012 10:55 pm   

My college instructor taught me the relay logic protocol, so I used it.
Blame it on Yale.

"Winston" wrote in message news:jf5mpi016hj_at_news4.newsguy.com...

Jon wrote:

(...)


FWIW, It raised alarm bells for me as well.

Near the bottom of this page, we see a 'ladder logic'
representation of a DPST relay that looks
eerily similar to the one Jon posted.

Note the 'slashed capacitor' symbol representing
normally closed contacts, etc.

http://www.wadeinstruments.com/relays/control_relay_tutorial.htm

--Winston

Sat Feb 04, 2012 10:58 pm   

I ended up using a 540 ohm current limiting resistor with an LED (12vdc
power). It seems to work fine.

"Jon" wrote in message
news:qLudnZsxkokxHJzSnZ2dnUVZ_qSdnZ2d_at_earthlink.com...

I'm wiring a 3-way switch to connect/disconnect a phone line. I want an LED
to be on at both locations when the line is connected and off at both
locations when the line is disconnected. Note that this isn't to show when
the phone is in use. It's only to show that there is voltage on the phone
line.

The phone line carries 48 v dc continuously and 90 low frequency ac when it
is ringing.

Can I just use a standard dc LED with a current-limiting resistor? Maybe a
100 ohm resistor? I don't want any interference when the phone is in use.

Please grace me with your opinion.

Sun Feb 05, 2012 1:45 am   

In article <jgcv8t$k9n$1_at_news.eternal-september.org>,
ehsjr <ehsjr_at_nospamverizon.net> wrote:

NEC has no jurisdiction in the UK <g>

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Sun Feb 05, 2012 2:08 am   

In article <j1oji79srefisjmpkar4ftfdcatiglarc8_at_4ax.com>,
krw_at_att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz <krw_at_att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:

OK, well it's thicker plastic and completely waterproof. - I'm not sure
conduit is.

What is a code violation now might not have been 24 years ago and code is
not retrospective.

It's not conduit, it's a cable duct - we had loads between and in
buildings at work, though I admit they were all salt glaze pipe. <g>

Codes and wiring regulations are all about safety. Codes lay down specific
measures and standards under given situations but there are also
situations which they do not exactly match and decisions have to made. OK,
perhaps they do cover this situation but I'm still going to use my own
common sense and make my own decision.

In this situation the important things are that the cable is rated
according to the load and appropriate overload protection provided - it is.

The cable must be protected from mechanical damage and effects of attack
or corrosion by water in the soil - it is

Whether or not it meets code, current or historic I consider the above
requirements to have been met I'm certainly not going to try a dig it all
up now.

If I was doing it again now then of course different considerations would
apply - particularly the ridiculous Part P of the building regulation.

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