OT(kinda): Texas Plane Crash - The Note

Fri Feb 19, 2010 2:44 am   

The guy who reportedly just flew a plane into the Texas IRS building was an
enginner.
His apparent "suicide note" outlines some issues with being a contract
engineer in the US:

http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/02/18/texas.plane.crash.profile/?hpt=T1

The note:
http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2010/images/02/18/stack.letter.pdf

Dave.

--
================================================
Check out my Electronics Engineering Video Blog & Podcast:
http://www.eevblog.com

Fri Feb 19, 2010 3:07 am   

On Fri, 19 Feb 2010 12:44:54 +1100, "David L. Jones"
<altzone_at_gmail.com> wrote:


I grabbed it in the first few minutes... it's rapidly being "expunged"


...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

Fri Feb 19, 2010 3:08 am   

Gee, Dave, I was waiting to see how long it would take for that link to show
up in SED, and figured that surely it'd be one of our more right-leaning
members here like Jim Thompson or Yanik -- not an Ozzie! :-)

Have you spent any long periods of time here in the states?

Fri Feb 19, 2010 3:32 am   

On Feb 18, 8:44 pm, "David L. Jones" <altz...@gmail.com> wrote:

And also issues with the Catholic Church, churches in general, issues
with George Bush, issues with capitalism and issues with our non-
socialistic health care system.

He was another lefty filled with hate and rage. Kind of like that
killer in Alabama.

Fri Feb 19, 2010 3:35 am   

Joel Koltner wrote:

I was surprised it wasn't posted already. Not because of which way anyone
leans, but because it is somewhat about engineering, so has relevance to the
group I thought.


Only a few months all up, but we get bombarded with Yankee stuff every
minute of the day :->

Just to stir (and inform), I spent a good hour yesterday watching this (6
part) gem:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xP79ReW8bk
and
http://www.prosecutionofbush.com/

Dave.

--
================================================
Check out my Electronics Engineering Video Blog & Podcast:
http://www.eevblog.com

Fri Feb 19, 2010 5:15 am   

On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 19:07:41 -0700, the renowned Jim Thompson
<To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon_at_My-Web-Site.com> wrote:


Liveleak has his manifesto with names and cuss words still in it.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2010/0218102stack1.html





Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
speff_at_interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

Fri Feb 19, 2010 5:35 am   

Sounds like this guy didn't have the brightest accountants/lawyers when
he set up his companies.

--
Paul Hovnanian mailto:Paul_at_Hovnanian.com
------------------------------------------------------------------
Ask me about my vow of silence.

Fri Feb 19, 2010 5:36 am   

David L. Jones wrote:

So he seems a somewhat reasonable guy that thinks the government should be
doing more for him. Being an engineering though he should easily have
understood that the government has no interest in the individual(there are
only powers in numbers).

Unfortunately people like this are much more powerful than they imagine but
waste it doing stupid shit like he did. His grievences were somewhat
justfied but his actions were not.

Fri Feb 19, 2010 5:36 am   

On Fri, 19 Feb 2010 12:44:54 +1100, "David L. Jones"
<altzone_at_gmail.com> wrote:


A "software engineer". Figures

Probably voted for Obama, too.

Fri Feb 19, 2010 6:53 am   

"David L. Jones" <altz...@gmail.com> wrote:
DLJ > The guy who reportedly just flew a plane into the
DLJ > Texas IRS building was an [ Software ] enginner.
DLJ > His apparent "suicide note" outlines some issues
DLJ > with being a contract engineer in the US:

brent <buleg...@columbus.rr.com> wrote:
b > And also issues with the Catholic Church, churches
b > in general, issues with George Bush, issues with
b > capitalism and issues with our non-socialistic
b > health care system.
b >
b > He was another lefty filled with hate and rage.
b > Kind of like that killer in Alabama.

Angry about capitalism but at the same time angry about taxes?

Pro healthcare reform yet angry about taxes?


Joseph Andrew Stack listed in phone book as
Andrew Joseph Stack III
1827 Dapplegrey Ln
Austin, TX 78727-4551

Billy Eli band up until 2 years ago, played bass for several years
Embedded Art - His software/firmware business

http://embeddedart.com/

This website has been taken offline due to the sensitive
nature of the events that transpired in Texas this morning
and in compliance with a request from the FBI. To see an
archived version of the original letter, please go here:
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2010/0218102stack1.html
.. Please visit our forum if you wish to discuss anything
related to this incident: Texas crash pilot left suicide
note on Web site - embeddedart.com.

Regards,
T35 Hosting - www.T35.com


If you're reading this, you're no doubt asking yourself,
"Why did this have to happen?" The simple truth is that
it is complicated and has been coming for a long time.
The writing process, started many months ago, was
intended to be therapy in the face of the looming
realization that there isn't enough therapy in the world
that can fix what is really broken. Needless to say,
this rant could fill volumes with example after example
if I would let it. I find the process of writing it
frustrating, tedious, and probably pointless… especially
given my gross inability to gracefully articulate my
thoughts in light of the storm raging in my head.
Exactly what is therapeutic about that I'm not sure,
but desperate times call for desperate measures.

We are all taught as children that without laws there
would be no society, only anarchy. Sadly, starting at
early ages we in this country have been brainwashed to
believe that, in return for our dedication and service,
our government stands for justice for all. We are
further brainwashed to believe that there is freedom
in this place, and that we should be ready to lay our
lives down for the noble principals represented by its
founding fathers. Remember? One of these was
"no taxation without representation". I have spent the
total years of my adulthood unlearning that crap from
only a few years of my childhood. These days anyone who
really stands up for that principal is promptly labeled
a "crackpot", traitor and worse.

While very few working people would say they haven't
had their fair share of taxes (as can I), in my lifetime
I can say with a great degree of certainty that there
has never been a politician cast a vote on any matter
with the likes of me or my interests in mind. Nor, for
that matter, are they the least bit interested in me
or anything I have to say.

Why is it that a handful of thugs and plunderers can
commit unthinkable atrocities (and in the case of the
GM executives, for scores of years) and when it's time
for their gravy train to crash under the weight of
their gluttony and overwhelming stupidity, the force
of the full federal government has no difficulty coming
to their aid within days if not hours? Yet at the same
time, the joke we call the American medical system,
including the drug and insurance companies, are
murdering tens of thousands of people a year and
stealing from the corpses and victims they cripple,
and this country's leaders don't see this as important
as bailing out a few of their vile, rich cronies. Yet,
the political "representatives" (thieves, liars, and
self-serving scumbags is far more accurate) have
endless time to sit around for year after year and
debate the state of the "terrible health care problem".
It's clear they see no crisis as long as the dead
people don't get in the way of their corporate
profits rolling in.

And justice? You've got to be kidding!

How can any rational individual explain that white
elephant conundrum in the middle of our tax system
and, indeed, our entire legal system? Here we have a
system that is, by far, too complicated for the
brightest of the master scholars to understand.
Yet, it mercilessly "holds accountable" its victims,
claiming that they're responsible for fully complying
with laws not even the experts understand. The law
"requires" a signature on the bottom of a tax filing;
yet no one can say truthfully that they understand
what they are signing; if that's not "duress" than
what is. If this is not the measure of a
totalitarian regime, nothing is.

How did I get here?

My introduction to the real American nightmare starts
back in the early '80s. Unfortunately after more
than 16 years of school, somewhere along the line I
picked up the absurd, pompous notion that I could read
and understand plain English. Some friends introduced
me to a group of people who were having 'tax code'
readings and discussions. In particular, zeroed in on
a section relating to the wonderful "exemptions" that
make institutions like the vulgar, corrupt Catholic
Church so incredibly wealthy. We carefully studied
the law (with the help of some of the "best",
high-paid, experienced tax lawyers in the business),
and then began to do exactly what the "big boys" were
doing (except that we weren't steeling from our
congregation or lying to the government about our
massive profits in the name of God). We took a great
deal of care to make it all visible, following all of
the rules, exactly the way the law said it was to be
done.

The intent of this exercise and our efforts was to
bring about a much-needed re-evaluation of the laws
that allow the monsters of organized religion to make
such a mockery of people who earn an honest living.
However, this is where I learned that there are two
"interpretations" for every law; one for the very
rich, and one for the rest of us… Oh, and the monsters
are the very ones making and enforcing the laws; the
inquisition is still alive and well today in this
country.

That little lesson in patriotism cost me $40,000+,
10 years of my life, and set my retirement plans back
to 0. It made me realize for the first time that I
live in a country with an ideology that is based on
a total and complete lie. It also made me realize,
not only how naive I had been, but also the incredible
stupidity of the American public; that they buy,
hook, line, and sinker, the crap about their
"freedom"… and that they continue to do so with eyes
closed in the face of overwhelming evidence and all
that keeps happening in front of them.

Before even having to make a shaky recovery from the
sting of the first lesson on what justice really
means in this country (around 1984 after making my
way through engineering school and still another
five years of "paying my dues"), I felt I finally
had to take a chance of launching my dream of
becoming an independent engineer.

On the subjects of engineers and dreams of
independence, I should digress somewhat to say that
I'm sure that I inherited the fascination for
creative problem solving from my father. I realized
this at a very young age.

The significance of independence, however, came much
later during my early years of college; at the age
of 18 or 19 when I was living on my own as student
in an apartment in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. My
neighbor was an elderly retired woman (80+ seemed
ancient to me at that age) who was the widowed wife
of a retired steel worker. Her husband had worked
all his life in the steel mills of central
Pennsylvania with promises from big business and the
union that, for his 30 years of service, he would
have a pension and medical care to look forward to
in his retirement. Instead he was one of the
thousands who got nothing because the incompetent
mill management and corrupt union (not to mention
the government) raided their pension funds and
stole their retirement. All she had was social
security to live on.

In retrospect, the situation was laughable because
here I was living on peanut butter and bread
(or Ritz crackers when I could afford to splurge)
for months at a time. When I got to know this poor
figure and heard her story I felt worse for her
plight than for my own (I, after all, I thought I
had everything to in front of me). I was genuinely
appalled at one point, as we exchanged stories and
commiserated with each other over our situations,
when she in her grandmotherly fashion tried to
convince me that I would be "healthier" eating cat
food (like her) rather than trying to get all my
substance from peanut butter and bread. I couldn't
quite go there, but the impression was made.
I decided that I didn't trust big business to take
care of me, and that I would take responsibility
for my own future and myself.

Return to the early '80s, and here I was off to a
terrifying start as a 'wet-behind-the-ears' contract
software engineer... and two years later, thanks to
the fine backroom, midnight effort by the sleazy
executives of Arthur Andersen (the very same folks
who later brought us Enron and other such calamities)
and an equally sleazy New York Senator
(Patrick Moynihan), we saw the passage of 1986 tax
reform act with its section 1706.

For you who are unfamiliar, here is the core text of
the IRS Section 1706, defining the treatment of
workers (such as contract engineers) for tax purposes.
Visit this link for a conference committee report (

http://www.synergistech.com/1706.shtml#ConferenceCommitteeReport

) regarding the intended interpretation of Section
1706 and the relevant parts of Section 530, as amended.
For information on how these laws affect technical
services workers and their clients, read our
discussion here (

http://www.synergistech.com/ic-taxlaw.shtml

).

SEC. 1706. TREATMENT OF CERTAIN TECHNICAL PERSONNEL.

(a) IN GENERAL - Section 530 of the Revenue Act of 1978
is amended by adding at the end thereof the following
new subsection:

(d) EXCEPTION. - This section shall not apply in the
case of an individual who pursuant to an arrangement
between the taxpayer and another person, provides
services for such other person as an engineer,
designer, drafter, computer programmer, systems
analyst, or other similarly skilled worker engaged
in a similar line of work.

(b) EFFECTIVE DATE. - The amendment made by this
section shall apply to remuneration paid and services
rendered after December 31, 1986.

Note:

· "another person" is the client in the
traditional job-shop relationship.

· "taxpayer" is the recruiter, broker, agency,
or job shop.

· "individual", "employee", or "worker" is you.



Admittedly, you need to read the treatment to
understand what it is saying but it's not very
complicated. The bottom line is that they may as
well have put my name right in the text of
section (d). Moreover, they could only have been
more blunt if they would have came out and directly
declared me a criminal and non-citizen slave.
Twenty years later, I still can't believe my eyes.

During 1987, I spent close to $5000 of my
'pocket change', and at least 1000 hours of my
time writing, printing, and mailing to any senator,
congressman, governor, or slug that might listen;
none did, and they universally treated me as if I
was wasting their time. I spent countless hours
on the L.A. freeways driving to meetings and any
and all of the disorganized professional groups
who were attempting to mount a campaign against
this atrocity. This, only to discover that our
efforts were being easily derailed by a few moles
from the brokers who were just beginning to enjoy
the windfall from the new declaration of their
"freedom". Oh, and don't forget, for all of the
time I was spending on this, I was loosing income
that I couldn't bill clients.

After months of struggling it had clearly gotten
to be a futile exercise. The best we could get
for all of our trouble is a pronouncement from an
IRS mouthpiece that they weren't going to enforce
that provision (read harass engineers and
scientists). This immediately proved to be a lie,
and the mere existence of the regulation began to
have its impact on my bottom line; this, of
course, was the intended effect.

Again, rewind my retirement plans back to 0 and
shift them into idle. If I had any sense, I
clearly should have left abandoned engineering
and never looked back.

Instead I got busy working 100-hour workweeks.
Then came the L.A. depression of the early 1990s.
Our leaders decided that they didn't need the all
of those extra Air Force bases they had in
Southern California, so they were closed; just
like that. The result was economic devastation
in the region that rivaled the widely publicized
Texas S&L fiasco. However, because the
government caused it, no one gave a shit about
all of the young families who lost their homes or
street after street of boarded up houses
abandoned to the wealthy loan companies who
received government funds to "shore up" their
windfall. Again, I lost my retirement.

Years later, after weathering a divorce and the
constant struggle trying to build some momentum
with my business, I find myself once again
beginning to finally pick up some speed. Then
came the .COM bust and the 911 nightmare. Our
leaders decided that all aircraft were grounded
for what seemed like an eternity; and long after
that, 'special' facilities like San Francisco
were on security alert for months. This made
access to my customers prohibitively expensive.

Ironically, after what they had done the
Government came to the aid of the airlines with
billions of our tax dollars … as usual they left
me to rot and die while they bailed out their
rich, incompetent cronies WITH MY MONEY! After
these events, there went my business but not
quite yet all of my retirement and savings.

By this time, I'm thinking that it might be good
for a change. Bye to California, I'll try Austin
for a while. So I moved, only to find out that
this is a place with a highly inflated sense of
self-importance and where damn little real
engineering work is done. I've never experienced
such a hard time finding work. The rates are 1/3
of what I was earning before the crash, because
pay rates here are fixed by the three or four
large companies in the area who are in collusion
to drive down prices and wages… and this happens
because the justice department is all on the take
and doesn't give a fuck about serving anyone or
anything but themselves and their rich buddies.

To survive, I was forced to cannibalize my savings
and retirement, the last of which was a small IRA.
This came in a year with mammoth expenses and not
a single dollar of income. I filed no return that
year thinking that because I didn't have any
income there was no need. The sleazy government
decided that they disagreed. But they didn't
notify me in time for me to launch a legal
objection so when I attempted to get a protest
filed with the court I was told I was no longer
entitled to due process because the time to file
ran out. Bend over for another $10,000 helping
of justice.

So now we come to the present. After my experience
with the CPA world, following the business crash
I swore that I'd never enter another accountant's
office again. But here I am with a new marriage
and a boatload of undocumented income, not to
mention an expensive new business asset, a piano,
which I had no idea how to handle. After
considerable thought I decided that it would be
irresponsible NOT to get professional help;
a very big mistake.

When we received the forms back I was very
optimistic that they were in order. I had taken
all of the years information to Bill Ross, and he
came back with results very similar to what I was
expecting. Except that he had neglected to
include the contents of Sheryl's unreported income;
$12,700 worth of it. To make matters worse, Ross
knew all along this was missing and I didn't have
a clue until he pointed it out in the middle of
the audit. By that time it had become brutally
evident that he was representing himself and not me.

This left me stuck in the middle of this disaster
trying to defend transactions that have no
relationship to anything tax-related (at least the
tax-related transactions were poorly documented).
Things I never knew anything about and things my
wife had no clue would ever matter to anyone. The
end result is… well, just look around.

I remember reading about the stock market crash
before the "great" depression and how there were
wealthy bankers and businessmen jumping out of
windows when they realized they screwed up and
lost everything. Isn't it ironic how far we've
come in 60 years in this country that they now
know how to fix that little economic problem;
they just steal from the middle class (who doesn't
have any say in it, elections are a joke) to
cover their asses and it's "business-as-usual".
Now when the wealthy fuck up, the poor get to die
for the mistakes… isn't that a clever, tidy solution.

As government agencies go, the FAA is often
justifiably referred to as a tombstone agency,
though they are hardly alone. The recent
presidential puppet GW Bush and his cronies in
their eight years certainly reinforced for all of
us that this criticism rings equally true for all
of the government. Nothing changes unless there
is a body count (unless it is in the interest of
the wealthy sows at the government trough). In a
government full of hypocrites from top to bottom,
life is as cheap as their lies and their
self-serving laws.

I know I'm hardly the first one to decide I have
had all I can stand. It has always been a myth
that people have stopped dying for their freedom
in this country, and it isn't limited to the blacks,
and poor immigrants. I know there have been countless
before me and there are sure to be as many after.
But I also know that by not adding my body to the
count, I insure nothing will change. I choose to
not keep looking over my shoulder at "big brother"
while he strips my carcass, I choose not to ignore
what is going on all around me, I choose not to
pretend that business as usual won't continue;
I have just had enough.

I can only hope that the numbers quickly get too
big to be white washed and ignored that the
American zombies wake up and revolt; it will take
nothing less. I would only hope that by striking
a nerve that stimulates the inevitable double
standard, knee-jerk government reaction that
results in more stupid draconian restrictions
people wake up and begin to see the pompous political
thugs and their mindless minions for what they are.
Sadly, though I spent my entire life trying to
believe it wasn't so, but violence not only is the
answer, it is the only answer. The cruel joke is
that the really big chunks of shit at the top have
known this all along and have been laughing, at and
using this awareness against, fools like me all along.

I saw it written once that the definition of insanity
is repeating the same process over and over and
expecting the outcome to suddenly be different.
I am finally ready to stop this insanity. Well, Mr.
Big Brother IRS man, let's try something different;
take my pound of flesh and sleep well.

The communist creed: From each according to his
ability, to each according to his need.

The capitalist creed: From each according to his
gullibility, to each according to his greed.

Joe Stack (1956-2010)

02/18/2010



http://www.traviscad.org/travisdetail.php?theKey=362591

TaxNetUSA: Travis County Property Information Property ID Number:
362591 Ref ID2 Number: 02621815120000

Owner's Name STACK ANDREW JOSEPH III
Mailing
Address 1827 DAPPLEGREY LN
AUSTIN, TX 78727-4551
Location 1827 DAPPLEGREY LN 78727
Legal LOT 23 BLK J SCOFIELD PHS VI SEC IV

Value Information 2009 Certified

Land Value 30,000.00

Improvement Value 202,066.00

AG Value 0.00
AG Productivity Value 0.00
Timber Value 0.00
Timber Productivity Value 0.00
Assessed Value 232,066.00

10% Cap Value 0.00

Total Value 232,066.00

Property Details
Deed Date 05142007
Deed Volume
Deed Page
Exemptions HS

Freeze Exempt F

ARB Protest F

Agent Code 0

Land Acres 0.1389

Block J

Tract or Lot 23

Docket No.

Abstract Code S12071
Neighborhood Code W4980


Data up to date as of 2010-02-16



(TIFF) (PDF)

Value By Jurisdiction
Entity Code Entity Name 2008 Tax Rate Assessed Value Taxable Value
Market Value Appraised Value
0A TRAVIS CENTRAL APP DIST 0.000000 232,066.00 232,066.00 232,066.00
232,066.00
02 CITY OF AUSTIN 0.401200 232,066.00 232,066.00 232,066.00
232,066.00
03 TRAVIS COUNTY 0.412200 232,066.00 185,653.00 232,066.00 232,066.00
19 PFLUGERVILLE ISD 1.460000 232,066.00 217,066.00 232,066.00
232,066.00
2J TRAVIS CO HEALTHCARE DIST 0.067900 232,066.00 185,653.00 232,066.00
232,066.00
68 AUSTIN COMM COLL DIST 0.095400 232,066.00 227,066.00 232,066.00
232,066.00

Improvement Information
Improvement ID State Category Description
314079 A1 1 FAM DWELLING

Segment Information
Imp ID Seg ID Type Code Description Class Effective Year Built Area
314079 1765132 1ST 1st Floor WV5 1995 1,356
314079 1765133 2ND 2nd Floor WW5 1995 1,149
314079 1794045 011 PORCH OPEN 1ST F *5 1995 26
314079 1794046 041 GARAGE ATT 1ST F WV5 1995 420
314079 1794047 095 HVAC RESIDENTIAL ** 1995 2,505
314079 1794048 251 BATHROOM ** 1995 3
314079 1794049 522 FIREPLACE *5 1995 1
314079 1794050 531 OBS FENCE WAA* 1995 1
314079 1794051 612 TERRACE UNCOVERD *5 1995 139
Total Living Area 2,505

Land Information
Land ID Type Code SPTB Code Homesite Size-Acres Front Depth Size-Sqft
357381 LAND A1 T 0.139 0 0 6,050




http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/NNum_Results.aspx?NNumbertxt=2889D

FAA REGISTRY
N-Number Inquiry Results
N2889D is Assigned
Data Updated each Federal Working Day at Midnight
Aircraft Description
Serial Number 28-7911227 Type Registration Individual
Manufacturer Name PIPER Certificate Issue Date 03/02/1998
Model PA-28-236 Status Valid
Type Aircraft Fixed Wing Single-Engine Type Engine Reciprocating
Pending Number Change None Dealer No
Date Change Authorized None Mode S Code 50567512
MFR Year None Fractional Owner NO
Registered Owner
Name STACK JOSEPH A
Street 661 6TH ST APT 111
City LINCOLN State CALIFORNIA
County PLACER Zip Code 95648-1824
Country UNITED STATES
Airworthiness
Engine Manufacturer Unknown Classification Standard
Engine Model Unknown Category Normal
A/W Date 06/07/1979
This is the most current Airworthiness Certificate data, however, it
may not reflect the current aircraft configuration. For that
information, see the aircraft record. A copy can be obtained at
Http://162.58.35.241/e.gov/ND/airrecordsND.asp

Other Owner Names
None
Temporary Certificate
None
Fuel Modifications
None
Data Updated each Federal Working Day at Midnight



http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://embeddedart.com/



2008

http://web.archive.org/web/20080622213058/http://www.embeddedart.com/

Welcome! This site briefly describes the capabilities and experience
of the Embedded Art firmware/software development service company.

Our Mission
To advance the art of programming, one project at a time; by achieving
an optimum balance between cost, schedule, functionality, reliability,
and maintainability.

Company Profile
Embedded Art is a small independent software house, specializing in
process control and automation. In its current form it represents the
culmination of 20 years of experience in the software development
consulting business. Founded by Joe Stack in 1983 (under the name of
Prowess Engineering) in Southern California, the company thrived for
15 years until shifting focus to the Sacramento area to take advantage
of growth in the Silicon Valley.

Now, 5 years later, the expertise of Embedded Art has landed in the
Austin Area expecting to lend a hand to the growing high technology
industry in South-Central Texas.

The concept behind the success of Embedded Art is that we provide the
experience and muscle for addressing complex software engineering
development tasks. Much of today's programming is a step-wise
refinement of previous development projects. With 20 years of
experience, we provide the expertise that can effectively navigate
around many of the pitfalls that snare the unseasoned engineer
(indeed, we've seen many of the same mistakes made again and again by
the inexperienced).

Fri Feb 19, 2010 7:45 am   

Spehro Pefhany wrote:

Now the US are even growing their own terrorists, interesting read. And with
his own plane that guy was not unsuccessful I guess. So who's next?
ciao Ban

Fri Feb 19, 2010 11:03 am   

Finally, part of a real discussion in this group.. Not just Political
Rants and identification of everyone as either a Leftie or Capitalist
Pig.

Thanks for the actual thoughts, guys.

I've been in several discussions over the years, including one
memorable cafeteria-breakfast-coffee discussion at IBM after the first
Trade Center bombing, which ended up with the conclusion: "It's a
good thing we're not the guys doing this, because we'd be GOOD at it!"

Regards, Terry King ..On the Red Sea at KAUST
terry_at_terryking.us

Fri Feb 19, 2010 11:19 am   

Ban <bansuri_at_web.de>
wibbled on Friday 19 February 2010 06:45


What do you mean "now"? Timothy McVeigh...

Homegrown terrorists are nothing unusual. Guy Fawkes was as English as I am
- came reasonably close to destroying a target that al Quaeda or the IRA (as
was) could only dream of.

--
Tim Watts

Managers, politicians and environmentalists: Nature's carbon buffer.

Fri Feb 19, 2010 2:23 pm   

Tim Watts <tw_at_dionic.net> wrote in
news:hlloj4$ppi$1_at_news.eternal-september.org:


McVeigh,Unibomber,Obama's Weather Underground buddies William Ayers and
Bernadette Dohrn are a few "domestics" that come to mind.Then there's
ALF/Earth First;the eco-terrorists.

Although I still suspect McVeigh had some outside help other than Nichols.


--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com

Fri Feb 19, 2010 3:33 pm   

On Fri, 19 Feb 2010 07:23:48 -0600, Jim Yanik <jyanik_at_abuse.gov> wrote:



And Ayers gets to "teach" at a university. How sad our leaders have
become that they tolerate so much utter stupidity as that which we see
each and every day.

This country is headed for a civil war. Between the gangs, and the
profiling cops, and the stupid mindsets all around, it is certain that
Manson knew a little something about the future we are in store for.