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Guest

Mon May 04, 2020 8:45 pm   



Bill Sloman <bill.sloman_at_ieee.org> wrote in
news:50b47b97-8d68-4957-95c4-92b0ef284dc1_at_googlegroups.com:

Quote:
On Monday, May 4, 2020 at 10:07:11 PM UTC+10,
DecadentLinux...@decadence.org wrote:
Bill Sloman <bill.sloman_at_ieee.org> wrote in
news:900c954c-2bf8-4b35-9b18-b5e5d6feca40_at_googlegroups.com:

Your comprehension of the arguments leaves a lot to be desired.

You constantly assessing folks is a failure on your part in so
many
cases. You thinking you have the capacity to make such
assessments makes it even worse.

If you think that Tom Del Rosso knows what he is talking about,
you haven't been paying attention. Your opinion of my capacities
isn't exactly unbiased either - it may make you feel good, but
that's all it's good for.

The problem here isn't what the left wants, but what your
decidedly right-wing government has failed to do thoroughly
enough or competently enough to have had the desired effect.

Every now and then Bill does get something right. That is spot
on.

Every now and then Decadent Linux User does show some sign of
sense, which puts him up in the Phil Allison class - is is a
compliment, though not an extravagant one.


We badly needed and still do:

<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqFJ_oaG4nw>

This is what happened through the lens of one observational vector:

<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rl4c-jr7g0>

bitrex
Guest

Tue May 05, 2020 3:45 am   



On 5/4/2020 2:24 AM, Tom Del Rosso wrote:
Quote:
Ricky C wrote:
On Saturday, May 2, 2020 at 10:41:46 PM UTC-4, Tom Del Rosso wrote:
Whoey Louie wrote:

I think it's simple. From what I see, polls show 65 to 70% support
the
measures taken and do believe that Covid is a serious threat.


No, lots of people think it's a serious threat, and also think
personal economic ruin is a serious threat.

You and I have money in the bank. Many others are borrowing from
credit cards to pay rent, and the cards are running out.

It would help a lot if property tax was waived so landlord's would be
able to waive the rent, but the lefties who run the local governments
with the worst property taxes are not the kind who would consider
doing that.

A surgeon can stand over your open chest cavity spewing bacteria from
his mouth because he wears a mask. People can go back to normal
activity if they continue to wear masks and keep clean.

I don't think you will find any health professionals who agree with
you. The hospitals are taking much more effective measures than just
wearing a mask and surgery uses infinitely more preventive measures
than just wearing a mask. Meanwhile healthcare professionals are
catching this disease and dying. That's why they were present during
some of the anti-shutdown protests.

We can take extra measures for the elderly. Supermarkets can deliver to
them after wiping down everything before it goes on the truck. I think
there would be less opportunity to transmit the virus that way. But
other people simply must go back to work even if it costs lives.


If the states waive property taxes the states have to bear the
burden. Once they declare bankruptcy as Pence recommends they won't
be able to get loans through bonds and will have to raise income
taxes hugely to compensate for the lost revenue and to deal with the
added expenses.

They just have to stop paying the civil servants who aren't working
anyway, and their absurd pensions too. Other people are going without.
Of course this wouldn't be necessary if people go back to work, but
paying the public sector and not the private sector, while there is no
production going on, should never have been considered an option.


There's no free lunch. The real problem is that we aren't doing
enough to fight this disease. As some have pointed out not all
countries that have all but licked their portion of the pandemic have
used shutdowns and stay at home orders. But they have all used
widespread testing and contact tracing. We still can't do that
because our numbers are so high.

If our cell infrastructure has the ability to do contact tracing it
would meet more resistance here on civil liberties grounds. For whatever
reason it seems we can't.


One thing I know is that if someone else is doing well with something
and you aren't, it's a good idea to understand why. New Orleans was
hit early and hard, but seems to be significantly on the mend unlike
the vast majority of states.

It would be good to know why 50-80% of doctors in other countries use
the drugs (whose spellings I would have to look up) but only 27% of
doctors here use them.


We can throw in the towel and give in to the disease. I just think
surrendering to the enemy when the fight has just begun is very much
a show of cowardice and not very American!

I guess we disagree on that.

It's not a surrender. It's a halt of retreat. We're acting out of fear
now. Honestly, the logic of the left is often inverted.


The American Right seems united in many respects other than disagreement
between the major factions on which members of the American Right are
the useful idiots.

Is the business-focused economic-right using white nationalists? Are the
white nationalists using the Evangelicals? are the Evangelicals using
the economic-right? Kind of like an amicable Mexican standoff seems
like, sometimes

bitrex
Guest

Tue May 05, 2020 3:45 am   



On 5/2/2020 11:54 PM, Bill Sloman wrote:
Quote:
On Sunday, May 3, 2020 at 12:41:46 PM UTC+10, Tom Del Rosso wrote:
Whoey Louie wrote:

I think it's simple. From what I see, polls show 65 to 70% support
the
measures taken and do believe that Covid is a serious threat.

No, lots of people think it's a serious threat, and also think personal
economic ruin is a serious threat.

In Australia lock down - and the associated contact tracing - has been done right. The number of new cases per day is down by a factor of twenty from the peak, and mainly now involves people who should have known better.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/australia/

It took about about of lock-down to do it, and that lock down is now being being relaxed, in small steps.

The lock down created a lot of unemployment but the federal government doubled the unemployment benefit overnight, and offered a "job-keeper" payment to employers so that they could keep employees on the books - and being paid - while they couldn't go in to work. It's costing a lot of money, but it won't go on for long.

Personal economic ruin has largely been avoided. The political party that has done this is right-of-centre, not left-of-centre, and really didn't want to spend the money, but does have enough grasp of reality to appreciate that it is necessary.

You and I have money in the bank. Many others are borrowing from credit
cards to pay rent, and the cards are running out.

If the government imposes a lock-down, it has an obligation to do it right, so that it has the effect intended. The US doesn't seem to have managed that.

It also has an obligation to stop people from going broke in consequence , which Trump and his crew don't seem to want to recognise.

snip

If people disagree about something then it IS a political issue. The
left simply has no tolerance for disagreement.

The left wing is all about debate and getting things right.

The right - as manifested by Trump's performance - is all about doing too little too late, and badly.

There's not a lot of tolerance on the left for wishful thinking. The right doesn't seem to know how to do any other kind.


The right seems to spends most of its time wishing the left would cease
to exist and as such can't help but mention these fantasies from time to
time, but naturally gets miffed if people who aren't them disagree with
that idea.

"All we're asking for is total control of everything but you people just
can't be reasoned with!"

bitrex
Guest

Tue May 05, 2020 3:45 am   



On 5/2/2020 10:35 PM, Tom Del Rosso wrote:
Quote:
Whoey Louie wrote:

I think it's simple. From what I see, polls show 65 to 70% support
the
measures taken and do believe that Covid is a serious threat.


No, lots of people think it's a serious threat, and also think personal
economic ruin is a serious threat.

You and I have money in the bank. Many others are borrowing from credit
cards to pay rent, and the cards are running out.

It would help a lot if property tax was waived so landlord's would be
able to waive the rent, but the lefties who run the local governments
with the worst property taxes are not the kind who would consider doing
that.

A surgeon can stand over your open chest cavity spewing bacteria from
his mouth because he wears a mask. People can go back to normal
activity if they continue to wear masks and keep clean.



I doubt you're going to get much higher agreement than
that. There are always going to be an assortment of deniers with
various
motives, ignoramuses, people who believe in conspiracy theories,
people
that want to try to make it a political issue, etc.

If people disagree about something then it IS a political issue. The
left simply has no tolerance for disagreement.


Right-wing-man tends to say: "What do you think of my idea for the total
destruction of leftism, worldwide?"

"I disagree with that idea"

"Ugh, the left has NO tolerance for disagreement! you can't reason with
'em!"

bitrex
Guest

Tue May 05, 2020 3:45 am   



On 5/4/2020 10:12 PM, bitrex wrote:
Quote:
On 5/2/2020 10:35 PM, Tom Del Rosso wrote:
Whoey Louie wrote:

I think it's simple.  From what I see, polls show 65 to 70% support
the
measures taken and do believe that Covid is a serious threat.


No, lots of people think it's a serious threat, and also think personal
economic ruin is a serious threat.

You and I have money in the bank.  Many others are borrowing from credit
cards to pay rent, and the cards are running out.

It would help a lot if property tax was waived so landlord's would be
able to waive the rent, but the lefties who run the local governments
with the worst property taxes are not the kind who would consider doing
that.

A surgeon can stand over your open chest cavity spewing bacteria from
his mouth because he wears a mask.  People can go back to normal
activity if they continue to wear masks and keep clean.



I doubt you're going to get much higher agreement than
that.  There are always going to be an assortment of deniers with
various
motives, ignoramuses, people who believe in conspiracy theories,
people
that want to try to make it a political issue, etc.

If people disagree about something then it IS a political issue.  The
left simply has no tolerance for disagreement.


Right-wing-man tends to say: "What do you think of my idea for the total
destruction of leftism, worldwide?"

"I disagree with that idea"

"Ugh, the left has NO tolerance for disagreement! you can't reason with
'em!"


or "Tolerance for different points of view", rather


Guest

Tue May 05, 2020 11:45 pm   



DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno_at_decadence.org wrote in news:r8ppjp$o07$1
@gioia.aioe.org:

snip
Quote:

We badly needed and still do:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqFJ_oaG4nw

This is what happened through the lens of one observational vector:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rl4c-jr7g0



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