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Joerg
Guest

Tue Mar 26, 2013 2:07 am   



John Larkin wrote:
Quote:
On Sun, 24 Mar 2013 13:34:49 -0700, Joerg <invalid_at_invalid.invalid
wrote:

Hi Folks,

Time to paint the house again but the local brands have changed a lot.
Last time was around 14 years ago, and we used Kelly Moore back then.
First their Elastocote and then Latex paint. It held up good but now
some areas suddenly turned bright white, I guess from the intense sun.

Nowadays the locally available brands are Sherwin Williams and Benjamin
Moore from the local paint store, or Behr from Home Depot. Kelly Moore
would require a trip but that's ok if that paint is still the best. I
think the toughest enemy for paint on our house is the hot summer sun.
Not so much the rain because of the rather large roof overhang.

Any opinions? What say thee?

Paints change more often than the expected lifetime of the paint. So
how can anybody tell what's good?


Sure, but brands change less often. Unless one gets bought out.

I was hoping it's like with cars, where certain brands need to be
avoided and others last a long time. My first two belonged to categroy
#1, the latter two to category #2. The difference is HUGE, for a rather
modest price difference.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/


Guest

Tue Mar 26, 2013 5:25 am   



On Mon, 25 Mar 2013 07:37:53 -0700, Joerg <invalid_at_invalid.invalid>
wrote:

Quote:
bloggs.fredbloggs.fred_at_gmail.com wrote:
On Sunday, March 24, 2013 8:21:00 PM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:
bloggs.fredbloggs.fred_at_gmail.com wrote:

On Sunday, March 24, 2013 6:48:30 PM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:
bloggs.fredbloggs.fred_at_gmail.com wrote:
On Sunday, March 24, 2013 6:20:03 PM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:
bloggs.fredbloggs.fred_at_gmail.com wrote:
[...]
Sherwin-Williams always works as advertized and it's
priced slightly less than Benjamin Moore. They always
sell it for less than the list price, will probably let
that $55/gal Duration go for $35. I've seen the Behr
self-priming in action and am less than impressed with
it, you will end up using twice as much and it still
looks bad. Actually wouldn't trust any claims of
self-priming and prime it anyway whichever paint you use,
depends on your standards.I'm pretty sure S-W is the
product of choice of the big contractors, they have every
imaginable application of paint covered.
We won't need to prime since there is already paint on the
house. It's not peeling or anything, just sun-bleached. Our
paint store doesn't give discounts but that's ok, I am
more concerned that it's good stuff so it lasts maybe a bit
longer than the 14 years the Kelly Moore lasted. Meantime,
the paints my wife found rated as good: Pittsburgh Manor
Hall Timeless Pittsburgh Sunproof Latex Exterior Benjamin
Moor Aura Waterborne Exterior But maybe S-W is the way to
go and some web links corroborate what you said:
http://www.consumersearch.com/exterior-paint/sherwin-williams-duration
The only thing I don't like is that it's a self-prime
thick paint. We don't need to prime. -- Regards, Joerg
http://www.analogconsultants.com/
The Pittsburgh products look good, but I never see them come
up in reviews.
I haven't either. Meantime I've scoped out S-W Duration a bit
and there seem to be some issues with it, mostly because of its
thickness and quick drying time:
http://jackpauhl.blogspot.com/2007/10/duration-exterior.html We
normally use a roller but this paint doesn't seem to like that
technique. Our siding has these typical vertical recesses that
must be painted by brush and then the other person rolls the
surfaces. Afraid that S-W Duration might be clumping a lot when
the roller meets the brush-painted areas. -- Regards, Joerg
http://www.analogconsultants.com/
I don't trust that review. I've used their interior Superpaint
which had the same complaints, it's not that thick and it's easy
to apply, but it does set up fast, so you don't want to go over
anything that's been in place for more than a few minutes, you
need to let it completely dry first. Your siding just means you
cut-in all the recessed grooves on the first day and hit the
flats on the second.




It's not the only review like that I saw. But for the Pittsburgh

Sunproof I can't find any such detailed reviews.



Doing the recesses one day and the rest the next day is fine, as
long as

the Duration exterior paint can be rolled.

LOL- those people are exaggerating about it being like mayonnaise.


Well, most are folks who professionally paint since decades. They must
know a thing or two.

Latex paint (all I suspect) is, by design, a non-Newtonian fluid. It's
intended to be "heavy" so it doesn't run off the wall onto the floor
(and off the brush onto your shoe). When you apply pressure from the
brush or roller the molecules "shear" causing it to go on smoothly.
The better the paint the more non-Newtonian.

One vote for Benjamin Moore. Duration, if you can afford it.

Joerg
Guest

Tue Mar 26, 2013 3:13 pm   



krw_at_attt.bizz wrote:
Quote:
On Mon, 25 Mar 2013 07:37:53 -0700, Joerg <invalid_at_invalid.invalid
wrote:

bloggs.fredbloggs.fred_at_gmail.com wrote:
On Sunday, March 24, 2013 8:21:00 PM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:
bloggs.fredbloggs.fred_at_gmail.com wrote:

On Sunday, March 24, 2013 6:48:30 PM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:
bloggs.fredbloggs.fred_at_gmail.com wrote:
On Sunday, March 24, 2013 6:20:03 PM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:
bloggs.fredbloggs.fred_at_gmail.com wrote:
[...]
Sherwin-Williams always works as advertized and it's
priced slightly less than Benjamin Moore. They always
sell it for less than the list price, will probably let
that $55/gal Duration go for $35. I've seen the Behr
self-priming in action and am less than impressed with
it, you will end up using twice as much and it still
looks bad. Actually wouldn't trust any claims of
self-priming and prime it anyway whichever paint you use,
depends on your standards.I'm pretty sure S-W is the
product of choice of the big contractors, they have every
imaginable application of paint covered.
We won't need to prime since there is already paint on the
house. It's not peeling or anything, just sun-bleached. Our
paint store doesn't give discounts but that's ok, I am
more concerned that it's good stuff so it lasts maybe a bit
longer than the 14 years the Kelly Moore lasted. Meantime,
the paints my wife found rated as good: Pittsburgh Manor
Hall Timeless Pittsburgh Sunproof Latex Exterior Benjamin
Moor Aura Waterborne Exterior But maybe S-W is the way to
go and some web links corroborate what you said:
http://www.consumersearch.com/exterior-paint/sherwin-williams-duration
The only thing I don't like is that it's a self-prime
thick paint. We don't need to prime. -- Regards, Joerg
http://www.analogconsultants.com/
The Pittsburgh products look good, but I never see them come
up in reviews.
I haven't either. Meantime I've scoped out S-W Duration a bit
and there seem to be some issues with it, mostly because of its
thickness and quick drying time:
http://jackpauhl.blogspot.com/2007/10/duration-exterior.html We
normally use a roller but this paint doesn't seem to like that
technique. Our siding has these typical vertical recesses that
must be painted by brush and then the other person rolls the
surfaces. Afraid that S-W Duration might be clumping a lot when
the roller meets the brush-painted areas. -- Regards, Joerg
http://www.analogconsultants.com/
I don't trust that review. I've used their interior Superpaint
which had the same complaints, it's not that thick and it's easy
to apply, but it does set up fast, so you don't want to go over
anything that's been in place for more than a few minutes, you
need to let it completely dry first. Your siding just means you
cut-in all the recessed grooves on the first day and hit the
flats on the second.



It's not the only review like that I saw. But for the Pittsburgh

Sunproof I can't find any such detailed reviews.



Doing the recesses one day and the rest the next day is fine, as
long as

the Duration exterior paint can be rolled.

LOL- those people are exaggerating about it being like mayonnaise.

Well, most are folks who professionally paint since decades. They must
know a thing or two.

Latex paint (all I suspect) is, by design, a non-Newtonian fluid. It's
intended to be "heavy" so it doesn't run off the wall onto the floor
(and off the brush onto your shoe). When you apply pressure from the
brush or roller the molecules "shear" causing it to go on smoothly.
The better the paint the more non-Newtonian.

One vote for Benjamin Moore. Duration, if you can afford it.


Price is not so important. So if you guys say that Duration can be
rolled without smearing, clumping or streaking then that may be the
ticket here. Having to pre-paint the recesses will be a pain because
some of it must be done on a ladder that is sort of difficult to
position. Which I'll then have to do twice.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

Joerg
Guest

Tue Mar 26, 2013 3:52 pm   



bloggs.fredbloggs.fred_at_gmail.com wrote:
Quote:
On Sunday, March 24, 2013 6:48:30 PM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:

We normally use a roller but this paint doesn't seem to like that

technique. Our siding has these typical vertical recesses that must be

painted by brush and then the other person rolls the surfaces. Afraid

that S-W Duration might be clumping a lot when the roller meets the

brush-painted areas.



--

Regards, Joerg



http://www.analogconsultants.com/

The S-W dealer will sell you a pint you can take home and test in place. They do it all the time, but it's usually for people who have to have just the right color so the pint let's them paint a little test patch to see how it looks.

That is a great idea!

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/


Guest

Tue Mar 26, 2013 4:48 pm   



On Sunday, March 24, 2013 6:48:30 PM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:

Quote:
We normally use a roller but this paint doesn't seem to like that

technique. Our siding has these typical vertical recesses that must be

painted by brush and then the other person rolls the surfaces. Afraid

that S-W Duration might be clumping a lot when the roller meets the

brush-painted areas.



--

Regards, Joerg



http://www.analogconsultants.com/

The S-W dealer will sell you a pint you can take home and test in place. They do it all the time, but it's usually for people who have to have just the right color so the pint let's them paint a little test patch to see how it looks.

Joerg
Guest

Tue Mar 26, 2013 6:38 pm   



bloggs.fredbloggs.fred_at_gmail.com wrote:
Quote:
On Tuesday, March 26, 2013 12:58:33 PM UTC-4, Robert Macy wrote:

If you plan on changing color, I HIGHLY recommend painting a test

patch! We decided on a color. Put a test patch on, and WOW!!!

Absolutely the WRONG color! Did that for three more test patches

until finally got the exact one we wanted. We used HD gallons, with


the leftover being relegated to primer somewhere only.

If color is a major concern, be aware that you might have to let it
sit upwards of week to see how it fully develops, initially it almost
always looks faded compared to the final development for at least
24-48 hours. The final color will be exactly as displayed on the
product palette eventually.


In our case we want to paint the same color as before. When I replaced
the window trim on the south side I kept some chunks which we can take
to the paint store for mixing. Then they'll try to match that. If the
match ain't 100% poifect that would be ok, we'll write down the ratio
numbers from their machine so we can always go back when we need more paint.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

Robert Macy
Guest

Tue Mar 26, 2013 6:58 pm   



On Mar 26, 7:52 am, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
Quote:
bloggs.fredbloggs.f...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sunday, March 24, 2013 6:48:30 PM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:

We normally use a roller but this paint doesn't seem to like that

technique. Our siding has these typical vertical recesses that must be

painted by brush and then the other person rolls the surfaces. Afraid

that S-W Duration might be clumping a lot when the roller meets the

brush-painted areas.

--

Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

The S-W dealer will sell you a pint you can take home and test in place.. They do it all the time, but it's usually for people who have to have just the right color so the pint let's them paint a little test patch to see how it looks.

That is a great idea!

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

If you plan on changing color, I HIGHLY recommend painting a test
patch! We decided on a color. Put a test patch on, and WOW!!!
Absolutely the WRONG color! Did that for three more test patches
until finally got the exact one we wanted. We used HD gallons, with
the leftover being relegated to primer somewhere only.


Guest

Tue Mar 26, 2013 7:29 pm   



On Tuesday, March 26, 2013 12:58:33 PM UTC-4, Robert Macy wrote:

Quote:
If you plan on changing color, I HIGHLY recommend painting a test

patch! We decided on a color. Put a test patch on, and WOW!!!

Absolutely the WRONG color! Did that for three more test patches

until finally got the exact one we wanted. We used HD gallons, with

the leftover being relegated to primer somewhere only.

If color is a major concern, be aware that you might have to let it sit upwards of week to see how it fully develops, initially it almost always looks faded compared to the final development for at least 24-48 hours. The final color will be exactly as displayed on the product palette eventually.

Charlie E.
Guest

Tue Mar 26, 2013 8:26 pm   



On Tue, 26 Mar 2013 10:38:34 -0700, Joerg <invalid_at_invalid.invalid>
wrote:

Quote:
bloggs.fredbloggs.fred_at_gmail.com wrote:
On Tuesday, March 26, 2013 12:58:33 PM UTC-4, Robert Macy wrote:

If you plan on changing color, I HIGHLY recommend painting a test

patch! We decided on a color. Put a test patch on, and WOW!!!

Absolutely the WRONG color! Did that for three more test patches

until finally got the exact one we wanted. We used HD gallons, with


the leftover being relegated to primer somewhere only.

If color is a major concern, be aware that you might have to let it
sit upwards of week to see how it fully develops, initially it almost
always looks faded compared to the final development for at least
24-48 hours. The final color will be exactly as displayed on the
product palette eventually.


In our case we want to paint the same color as before. When I replaced
the window trim on the south side I kept some chunks which we can take
to the paint store for mixing. Then they'll try to match that. If the
match ain't 100% poifect that would be ok, we'll write down the ratio
numbers from their machine so we can always go back when we need more paint.

A few years ago when we painted our house (which was just two years
old at the time...) we decided to change the colors. We wanted a
white house, with a terra-cotta red trim to match the tinted concrete
on our new front patio. We looked at a bunch of paint swatches, and
choose the one that matched it best.

Two weeks later, we look at the final paint color, and it is bright
red! Seems the color we had picked was a SW color, but the paint the
contractor used was Frazee. When they did whatever color matching to
that chip, they really messed up. Our neighbors were furious! With
that clean white and bright red, we stood out in a neighborhood of
neutral beiges and grays. On the other hand, when we saw it, we
really, really liked it!

Joerg
Guest

Tue Mar 26, 2013 9:23 pm   



Charlie E. wrote:
Quote:
On Tue, 26 Mar 2013 10:38:34 -0700, Joerg <invalid_at_invalid.invalid
wrote:

bloggs.fredbloggs.fred_at_gmail.com wrote:
On Tuesday, March 26, 2013 12:58:33 PM UTC-4, Robert Macy wrote:

If you plan on changing color, I HIGHLY recommend painting a test

patch! We decided on a color. Put a test patch on, and WOW!!!

Absolutely the WRONG color! Did that for three more test patches

until finally got the exact one we wanted. We used HD gallons, with


the leftover being relegated to primer somewhere only.
If color is a major concern, be aware that you might have to let it
sit upwards of week to see how it fully develops, initially it almost
always looks faded compared to the final development for at least
24-48 hours. The final color will be exactly as displayed on the
product palette eventually.

In our case we want to paint the same color as before. When I replaced
the window trim on the south side I kept some chunks which we can take
to the paint store for mixing. Then they'll try to match that. If the
match ain't 100% poifect that would be ok, we'll write down the ratio
numbers from their machine so we can always go back when we need more paint.

A few years ago when we painted our house (which was just two years
old at the time...) we decided to change the colors. We wanted a
white house, with a terra-cotta red trim to match the tinted concrete
on our new front patio. We looked at a bunch of paint swatches, and
choose the one that matched it best.

Two weeks later, we look at the final paint color, and it is bright
red! Seems the color we had picked was a SW color, but the paint the
contractor used was Frazee. When they did whatever color matching to
that chip, they really messed up. Our neighbors were furious! With
that clean white and bright red, we stood out in a neighborhood of
neutral beiges and grays. On the other hand, when we saw it, we
really, really liked it!


Blame it on your electronic color reader :-)

When we painted our house 14 years ago we tried green as trim for the
gable boards and stuff. Looked at it ... *YUCK* ... got rid of that real
quick.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/


Guest

Tue Mar 26, 2013 11:23 pm   



On Tuesday, March 26, 2013 4:23:15 PM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:

Quote:

Blame it on your electronic color reader :-)



When we painted our house 14 years ago we tried green as trim for the

gable boards and stuff. Looked at it ... *YUCK* ... got rid of that real

quick.



--

Regards, Joerg



http://www.analogconsultants.com/

S-W has a visualizer https://www.sherwin-williams.com/visualizer/# where you can mix and match up siding and trim color schemes on something maybe close to the architectural style of house, it's self-explanatory.

Charlie E.
Guest

Wed Mar 27, 2013 2:36 pm   



On Tue, 26 Mar 2013 13:23:15 -0700, Joerg <invalid_at_invalid.invalid>
wrote:

Quote:
Charlie E. wrote:
On Tue, 26 Mar 2013 10:38:34 -0700, Joerg <invalid_at_invalid.invalid
wrote:

bloggs.fredbloggs.fred_at_gmail.com wrote:
On Tuesday, March 26, 2013 12:58:33 PM UTC-4, Robert Macy wrote:

If you plan on changing color, I HIGHLY recommend painting a test

patch! We decided on a color. Put a test patch on, and WOW!!!

Absolutely the WRONG color! Did that for three more test patches

until finally got the exact one we wanted. We used HD gallons, with


the leftover being relegated to primer somewhere only.
If color is a major concern, be aware that you might have to let it
sit upwards of week to see how it fully develops, initially it almost
always looks faded compared to the final development for at least
24-48 hours. The final color will be exactly as displayed on the
product palette eventually.

In our case we want to paint the same color as before. When I replaced
the window trim on the south side I kept some chunks which we can take
to the paint store for mixing. Then they'll try to match that. If the
match ain't 100% poifect that would be ok, we'll write down the ratio
numbers from their machine so we can always go back when we need more paint.

A few years ago when we painted our house (which was just two years
old at the time...) we decided to change the colors. We wanted a
white house, with a terra-cotta red trim to match the tinted concrete
on our new front patio. We looked at a bunch of paint swatches, and
choose the one that matched it best.

Two weeks later, we look at the final paint color, and it is bright
red! Seems the color we had picked was a SW color, but the paint the
contractor used was Frazee. When they did whatever color matching to
that chip, they really messed up. Our neighbors were furious! With
that clean white and bright red, we stood out in a neighborhood of
neutral beiges and grays. On the other hand, when we saw it, we
really, really liked it!


Blame it on your electronic color reader :-)

When we painted our house 14 years ago we tried green as trim for the
gable boards and stuff. Looked at it ... *YUCK* ... got rid of that real
quick.

Actually, after having this color for five years, the only thing I
would change would be to paint the eaves red as well!

Joerg
Guest

Wed Mar 27, 2013 5:57 pm   



Charlie E. wrote:
Quote:
On Tue, 26 Mar 2013 13:23:15 -0700, Joerg <invalid_at_invalid.invalid
wrote:

Charlie E. wrote:

[...]


Quote:
A few years ago when we painted our house (which was just two years
old at the time...) we decided to change the colors. We wanted a
white house, with a terra-cotta red trim to match the tinted concrete
on our new front patio. We looked at a bunch of paint swatches, and
choose the one that matched it best.

Two weeks later, we look at the final paint color, and it is bright
red! Seems the color we had picked was a SW color, but the paint the
contractor used was Frazee. When they did whatever color matching to
that chip, they really messed up. Our neighbors were furious! With
that clean white and bright red, we stood out in a neighborhood of
neutral beiges and grays. On the other hand, when we saw it, we
really, really liked it!

Blame it on your electronic color reader :-)

When we painted our house 14 years ago we tried green as trim for the
gable boards and stuff. Looked at it ... *YUCK* ... got rid of that real
quick.

Actually, after having this color for five years, the only thing I
would change would be to paint the eaves red as well!


The wrath of the whole neighborhood will come upon you if you do that :-)

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

Charlie E.
Guest

Thu Mar 28, 2013 3:21 am   



On Wed, 27 Mar 2013 09:57:32 -0700, Joerg <invalid_at_invalid.invalid>
wrote:

Quote:
Charlie E. wrote:
On Tue, 26 Mar 2013 13:23:15 -0700, Joerg <invalid_at_invalid.invalid
wrote:

Charlie E. wrote:

[...]


A few years ago when we painted our house (which was just two years
old at the time...) we decided to change the colors. We wanted a
white house, with a terra-cotta red trim to match the tinted concrete
on our new front patio. We looked at a bunch of paint swatches, and
choose the one that matched it best.

Two weeks later, we look at the final paint color, and it is bright
red! Seems the color we had picked was a SW color, but the paint the
contractor used was Frazee. When they did whatever color matching to
that chip, they really messed up. Our neighbors were furious! With
that clean white and bright red, we stood out in a neighborhood of
neutral beiges and grays. On the other hand, when we saw it, we
really, really liked it!

Blame it on your electronic color reader :-)

When we painted our house 14 years ago we tried green as trim for the
gable boards and stuff. Looked at it ... *YUCK* ... got rid of that real
quick.

Actually, after having this color for five years, the only thing I
would change would be to paint the eaves red as well!


The wrath of the whole neighborhood will come upon you if you do that Smile

They tried that last time! We don't actually have an HOA, but the
builder (and the community was still under construction then) did have
a sorta HOA written into the contracts. They sent him several
complaints, and because he was in the middle of a fight with the
planning commision at the time, he actually listened to him. However,
we supported him in his fight (and had some clout with the city that
made this useful) while the complaintants were all fighting him on
that front as well, so he supported us!

Of course, he never did get to build any more houses, even with the
updated plans. The market was just too bad then. I keep expecting
him to start back up any time now...

Charlie

George Herold
Guest

Thu Mar 28, 2013 4:30 am   



On Mar 24, 4:34 pm, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
Quote:
Hi Folks,

Time to paint the house again but the local brands have changed a lot.
Last time was around 14 years ago, and we used Kelly Moore back then.
First their Elastocote and then Latex paint. It held up good but now
some areas suddenly turned bright white, I guess from the intense sun.

Nowadays the locally available brands are Sherwin Williams and Benjamin
Moore from the local paint store, or Behr from Home Depot. Kelly Moore
would require a trip but that's ok if that paint is still the best. I
think the toughest enemy for paint on our house is the hot summer sun.
Not so much the rain because of the rather large roof overhang.

Any opinions? What say thee?

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

Joerg I'm late to this thread, and I don't live in a hot climate.
But I've been using stains, rather than paints on my wood structures,
and so far I'm very pleased. The barn soaked up many gallons of stain
10+ years ago, and still looks OK. The garage got stained. The house
is (mostly) covered in plastic. There's some pealing latex covered
woodwork here and there, and I'm thinking about staining it :^)
(I get my stain in 5 gal. buckets.)

George H.




George H.

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