OT: slow dial-up verification

On Sat, 28 Aug 2010 08:20:54 -0400, Phil Hobbs





pcdhSpamMeSensel...@electrooptical.net> wrote:
Robert Baer wrote:
Joe Chisolm wrote:
On Fri, 27 Aug 2010 12:34:01 -0700, Jim Thompson wrote:
[snip]
[snip]

Yep.  I'm seriously considering dropping the land lines and going to a
cellphone docking system... saving about $125/month.

                                        ...Jim Thompson

We are going on 6 years without a land line.  When we bought the house
it did not even have a NID.  It has the inside wiring to the jacks but
nothing to the street.  So we went cell phone only and I have a VOIP
line.

I have not sent/received a fax in probably 10 years and dont even own a
fax machine now (except I think the multifunction printer/scanner will
work as a fax). That was another nail in the coffin for the land
line.  Thought about the cell phone dock to make it easier to have the
wife and I both on the line at the same time.  But why, I just 3-way call
to her phone if it's that important for both of us to be on at the same
time.

Kill the land line and spend the money on good wine and food.

  So, how in the *** does one use a cell phone for (high speed?)
internet connection?

My BlackBerry gives me about 100 kb/s, by using a USB cable and the BB
manager software.  It's great as a backup, e.g. during power failures,
or when working on the road.  Mine comes as part of the $39 unlimited
data plan.

Is "unlimited" truly unlimited?  I may have to re-think my phone-only blinders
(they keep bugging me to sign a new contract).- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

On 27/08/2010 20:24, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Martin Brown wrote:

On 27/08/2010 15:41, mpm wrote:
On Aug 27, 4:08 am, Martin Brown<|||newspam...@nezumi.demon.co.uk
wrote:
On 27/08/2010 09:47, Robert Baer wrote:





Kevin McMurtrie wrote:
In article<2NydnSrZ5P33q-vRnZ2dnUVZ_jSdn...@posted.localnet>,
Robert Baer<robertb...@localnet.com> wrote:

Modem dials, line picks up, handshake then v e r i f i c a t i o
n .
. . . . . (...) . . connect [at last!].
I do remember seeing almost immediate verification.
How do i restore that?
Thanks.

For 56K, some time is spent analyzing the line and negotiating
supported features. Assuming you want to keep 56K, make then
connection, ask your modem for a dump of active features, and then
force that feature set in the initialization string. That will
bypass
the sometimes lengthy process where different brands of modems keep
getting in race and retry conditions during negotiation. You'll need
to associate that initialization string with the phone number
because
it may not work in general.
Huh? "Associate with phone number"??

The init string can be bound to the phone number of your ISP in the
dialup connectoid. You may find that certain blocks of their modems on
one number work better than others. The advice is good.

If as seems likely for a penny pinching cheapskate with a prehistoric
modem you are on a DACS'd phone line with lousy bandwidth then your
best
bet is to force a V34+ connection at the start of negotiations.

Or force a maximum 56k data rate that is low enough that
negotiation for
highest rate takes a much shorter time. 56k has never been instant but
is under 10s on a good day. The protocol tries hard to get a solution
but it is a lost cause if something inbetween you and the exchange is
redigitising the signal en route.

Generally V34 and earlier will do better on lousy cheap voice only
phone
lines. It is not for nothing that bank machines use old modem
protocols
with quick negotiation to send short pulses of data.

Since you are stuck with dialup you would be a lot better off with an
internal modem with a much deeper FIFO.

- Show quoted text -

I don't know if I would jump to this conclusion just yet....
Let's get him the right connect string, or the manual S-register
setting first and let him try that.

He is forever whining here in s.e.d about bad connections. If he asked
in comp.modems he might actually get some advice from people who still
use them. Most serious users are on broadband these days.

And to free up real copper circuits for ASDL users they are putting the
remaining cheapskates onto voice only grade virtual circuits. They only
lay new cable copper or fibre as an absolute last resort.

Free up copper? US phone companies are complaining about so many
people dropping their landlines. It wasn't that long ago that they were
busy installing more copper for multiple phone lines per home, and now
most of it has been abandoned.

Depends where you live. There is typically a vast over supply of cabled
bandwidth in cities and a big shortage out in the countryside (a place
where mobile coverage can be spotty). I get around 3.5Mbps on ADSL which
isn't bad on ancient copper wire with rural junction boxes full of
spiders and 12 miles to the exchange. The neighbouring village on a
different exchange also have broadband in theory but the highest speed
anyone can sync at there is a whopping 0.1Mbps (barely twice the speed
of 56k and slower than bonded ISDN once compression is enabled). Their
telco reluctantly admits there is a problem.

In the cities you have a choice of multiple carriers and up to 20Mbps
(in reality closer to 10) over copper and 100Mbps over fibre.

The OP would probably be much better off with a 3G network dongle on a
pay as you go charged per MB downloaded contract anyway.

Regards,
Martin Brown
....OK; what provider, what is the rate, and is the reception as bad as

Robert Baer wrote:
Joe Chisolm wrote:
On Fri, 27 Aug 2010 12:34:01 -0700, Jim Thompson wrote:
[snip]
[snip]

Yep. I'm seriously considering dropping the land lines and going to a
cellphone docking system... saving about $125/month.
...Jim Thompson

We are going on 6 years without a land line. When we bought the house
it did not even have a NID. It has the inside wiring to the jacks but
nothing to the street. So we went cell phone only and I have a VOIP
line.

I have not sent/received a fax in probably 10 years and dont even own a
fax machine now (except I think the multifunction printer/scanner
will work as a fax). That was another nail in the coffin for the land
line. Thought about the cell phone dock to make it easier to have the
wife and I both on the line at the same time. But why, I just 3-way
call
to her phone if it's that important for both of us to be on at the same
time.

Kill the land line and spend the money on good wine and food.

So, how in the *** does one use a cell phone for (high speed?)
internet connection?

My BlackBerry gives me about 100 kb/s, by using a USB cable and the BB
manager software. It's great as a backup, e.g. during power failures,
or when working on the road. Mine comes as part of the $39 unlimited
data plan.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

Meaning $39/mo in addition to POTS; about the same as getting DSL

Robert Baer wrote:
krw_at_att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote:
? On Fri, 27 Aug 2010 01:41:12 -0700, Robert Baer ?robertbaer_at_localnet.com?
? wrote:
?
?? Eeyore wrote:
??? Robert Baer wrote:
???? Modem dials, line picks up, handshake then v e r i f i c a t i o n .
???? . . . . . (...) . . connect [at last!].
???? I do remember seeing almost immediate verification.
???? How do i restore that?
???? Thanks.
??? 56k modem ? They spend some time negotiating the reliable fastest
??? possible data rate over your connection. A possible sign of a growing
??? line fault ? Have you noticed any audible degradation on the line ?
??? Another tip - dial one number to kill the dial tone and listen for
??? noise. Could even be your telecom supplier working on lines and
??? re-routing your connection.
???
??? Can you not get broadband ?
???
??? Graham
?? I can get broadband, but cannot afford the extra $40 or so
?? (undisclosed taxes and fees almost double advertised baitxxxxrates.
?? Line is OK; for ducks, i installed an OS on a wiped drive, then
?? Seamonkey to try: negotiates well under a second.
?
? Yikes! That's steep. I have naked DSL from Verizon and the entire bill is
? $19.95 (up from $19.65 a couple of months ago - ??). DSL sucks, but it's not
? too bad; cheaper than a phone line. If I could get cable here, I hear it's
? worse than DSL. The city just won a referendum to install fiber "to the
? house" and go into the TV and Internet business, so we'll see how that works
? out.
Qwest does not give a damn about customers, only the money.
About $40/mo including all of the taxes, fees and taxes on the fees
and fees on the taxes got POTS.
ADD another "only" $20/mo (bait and switch introductory rate) for DSL.
Undisclosed additional taxes and fees add to that.
How the hell can DSL be "cheaper than a phone line" when it REQUIRES
a phone line?


You can get DSL without phone service, and some of the fees only
apply to phone service.


Did not know that, but it is a moot point with no in/out calling

On Sat, 28 Aug 2010 02:03:53 -0700, Robert Baer
robertbaer_at_localnet.com> wrote:

Joe Chisolm wrote:
On Fri, 27 Aug 2010 12:34:01 -0700, Jim Thompson wrote:
[snip]
[snip]

Yep. I'm seriously considering dropping the land lines and going to a
cellphone docking system... saving about $125/month.

...Jim Thompson
We are going on 6 years without a land line. When we bought the house
it did not even have a NID. It has the inside wiring to the jacks but
nothing to the street. So we went cell phone only and I have a VOIP line.

I have not sent/received a fax in probably 10 years and dont even own a
fax machine now (except I think the multifunction printer/scanner
will work as a fax). That was another nail in the coffin for the land
line. Thought about the cell phone dock to make it easier to have the
wife and I both on the line at the same time. But why, I just 3-way call
to her phone if it's that important for both of us to be on at the same
time.

Kill the land line and spend the money on good wine and food.

So, how in the *** does one use a cell phone for (high speed?)
internet connection?

One doesn't... one uses the cable connection

...Jim Thompson
Just as well, since cell phones (and WiNet) do not work here (at the

On Sat, 28 Aug 2010 02:12:40 -0700, Robert Baer <robertbaer_at_localnet.com
wrote:

krw_at_att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Fri, 27 Aug 2010 01:41:12 -0700, Robert Baer <robertbaer_at_localnet.com
wrote:

Eeyore wrote:
Robert Baer wrote:
Modem dials, line picks up, handshake then v e r i f i c a t i o n .
. . . . . (...) . . connect [at last!].
I do remember seeing almost immediate verification.
How do i restore that?
Thanks.
56k modem ? They spend some time negotiating the reliable fastest
possible data rate over your connection. A possible sign of a growing
line fault ? Have you noticed any audible degradation on the line ?
Another tip - dial one number to kill the dial tone and listen for
noise. Could even be your telecom supplier working on lines and
re-routing your connection.

Can you not get broadband ?

Graham
I can get broadband, but cannot afford the extra $40 or so
(undisclosed taxes and fees almost double advertised baitxxxxrates.
Line is OK; for ducks, i installed an OS on a wiped drive, then
Seamonkey to try: negotiates well under a second.
Yikes! That's steep. I have naked DSL from Verizon and the entire bill is
$19.95 (up from $19.65 a couple of months ago - ??). DSL sucks, but it's not
too bad; cheaper than a phone line. If I could get cable here, I hear it's
worse than DSL. The city just won a referendum to install fiber "to the
house" and go into the TV and Internet business, so we'll see how that works
out.
Qwest does not give a damn about customers, only the money.

Well, that describes all companies, whether they admit it or not. Customers
are, however, the route to that money. I certainly would put AT&T (sorry, I
said Verizon before) strongly in that category.

About $40/mo including all of the taxes, fees and taxes on the fees
and fees on the taxes got POTS.

I was paying over $50 in VT (Verizon) for POTS. It was about $35 here until I
got rid of it and went naked. ...but that's the PUC at work.

ADD another "only" $20/mo (bait and switch introductory rate) for DSL.

Like I said, that's what we pay for naked DSL, though the slowest (crappy)
service. Not an introductory rate. It sure beat POTS, though.
* The sucker ads eXplicitly state (indirectly and in the finest print)

Undisclosed additional taxes and fees add to that.
How the hell can DSL be "cheaper than a phone line" when it REQUIRES
a phone line?

PUC. Unlike POTS, It's a competitive service. More expensive and people buy
something else. "It doesn't have to make sense. We're the phone company."

mpm wrote:
On Aug 26, 4:40 am, Robert Baer <robertb...@localnet.com> wrote:
Modem dials, line picks up, handshake then v e r i f i c a t i o n .
. . . . . (...) . . connect [at last!].
I do remember seeing almost immediate verification.
How do i restore that?
Thanks.

Use a 300 baud or (possibly a 1200 baud) modem.
The time spent negotiating a connection speed and format using faster
modems could be better spent sending the short message using modems
that don't negotiate speeds or formats. For short messages, it's
actually quicker to use a slower modem.

If you're using Hayes command set compatible modems, look for the AT
Command or S-Register that control the connection speed.
Probably an S-register. Been a long time since I messed with dial-up
modems.
To my chagrin, i found that the US Robotics modem bastardized some of
the Hayes command set.
Did a lot of fiddling to no avail.

Phil Hobbs wrote:
Robert Baer wrote:
Joe Chisolm wrote:
On Fri, 27 Aug 2010 12:34:01 -0700, Jim Thompson wrote:
[snip]
[snip]

Yep. I'm seriously considering dropping the land lines and going to a
cellphone docking system... saving about $125/month.
...Jim Thompson

We are going on 6 years without a land line. When we bought the house
it did not even have a NID. It has the inside wiring to the jacks but
nothing to the street. So we went cell phone only and I have a VOIP
line.

I have not sent/received a fax in probably 10 years and dont even own a
fax machine now (except I think the multifunction printer/scanner
will work as a fax). That was another nail in the coffin for the land
line. Thought about the cell phone dock to make it easier to have the
wife and I both on the line at the same time. But why, I just 3-way
call
to her phone if it's that important for both of us to be on at the same
time.

Kill the land line and spend the money on good wine and food.

So, how in the *** does one use a cell phone for (high speed?)
internet connection?

My BlackBerry gives me about 100 kb/s, by using a USB cable and the BB
manager software. It's great as a backup, e.g. during power failures,
or when working on the road. Mine comes as part of the $39 unlimited
data plan.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

Meaning $39/mo in addition to POTS; about the same as getting DSL (not
counting taxes and fees).

Michael A. Terrell wrote:
Robert Baer wrote:
krw_at_att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote:
? On Fri, 27 Aug 2010 01:41:12 -0700, Robert Baer ?robertbaer_at_localnet.com?
? wrote:
?
?? Eeyore wrote:
??? Robert Baer wrote:
???? Modem dials, line picks up, handshake then v e r i f i c a t i o n .
???? . . . . . (...) . . connect [at last!].
???? I do remember seeing almost immediate verification.
???? How do i restore that?
???? Thanks.
??? 56k modem ? They spend some time negotiating the reliable fastest
??? possible data rate over your connection. A possible sign of a growing
??? line fault ? Have you noticed any audible degradation on the line ?
??? Another tip - dial one number to kill the dial tone and listen for
??? noise. Could even be your telecom supplier working on lines and
??? re-routing your connection.
???
??? Can you not get broadband ?
???
??? Graham
?? I can get broadband, but cannot afford the extra $40 or so
?? (undisclosed taxes and fees almost double advertised baitxxxxrates.
?? Line is OK; for ducks, i installed an OS on a wiped drive, then
?? Seamonkey to try: negotiates well under a second.
?
? Yikes! That's steep. I have naked DSL from Verizon and the entire bill is
? $19.95 (up from $19.65 a couple of months ago - ??). DSL sucks, but it's not
? too bad; cheaper than a phone line. If I could get cable here, I hear it's
? worse than DSL. The city just won a referendum to install fiber "to the
? house" and go into the TV and Internet business, so we'll see how that works
? out.
Qwest does not give a damn about customers, only the money.
About $40/mo including all of the taxes, fees and taxes on the fees
and fees on the taxes got POTS.
ADD another "only" $20/mo (bait and switch introductory rate) for DSL.
Undisclosed additional taxes and fees add to that.
How the hell can DSL be "cheaper than a phone line" when it REQUIRES
a phone line?


You can get DSL without phone service, and some of the fees only
apply to phone service.


Did not know that, but it is a moot point with no in/out calling
capability.

On 27/08/2010 09:47, Robert Baer wrote:
Kevin McMurtrie wrote:
In article <2NydnSrZ5P33q-vRnZ2dnUVZ_jSdnZ2d_at_posted.localnet>,
Robert Baer <robertbaer_at_localnet.com> wrote:

Modem dials, line picks up, handshake then v e r i f i c a t i o n .
. . . . . (...) . . connect [at last!].
I do remember seeing almost immediate verification.
How do i restore that?
Thanks.

For 56K, some time is spent analyzing the line and negotiating
supported features. Assuming you want to keep 56K, make then
connection, ask your modem for a dump of active features, and then
force that feature set in the initialization string. That will bypass
the sometimes lengthy process where different brands of modems keep
getting in race and retry conditions during negotiation. You'll need
to associate that initialization string with the phone number because
it may not work in general.

Huh? "Associate with phone number"??

The init string can be bound to the phone number of your ISP in the
dialup connectoid. You may find that certain blocks of their modems on
one number work better than others. The advice is good.

If as seems likely for a penny pinching cheapskate with a prehistoric
modem you are on a DACS'd phone line with lousy bandwidth then your best
bet is to force a V34+ connection at the start of negotiations.

Or force a maximum 56k data rate that is low enough that negotiation for
highest rate takes a much shorter time. 56k has never been instant but
is under 10s on a good day. The protocol tries hard to get a solution
but it is a lost cause if something inbetween you and the exchange is
redigitising the signal en route.

Generally V34 and earlier will do better on lousy cheap voice only phone
lines. It is not for nothing that bank machines use old modem protocols
with quick negotiation to send short pulses of data.

Since you are stuck with dialup you would be a lot better off with an
internal modem with a much deeper FIFO.

Regards,
Martin Brown

krw_at_att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Fri, 27 Aug 2010 13:45:31 -0700, Jim Thompson
To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon_at_On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote:

On Fri, 27 Aug 2010 15:38:06 -0500, Joe Chisolm
jchisolm6_at_earthlink.net> wrote:

On Fri, 27 Aug 2010 12:34:01 -0700, Jim Thompson wrote:
[snip]
[snip]

Yep. I'm seriously considering dropping the land lines and going to a
cellphone docking system... saving about $125/month.

...Jim Thompson
We are going on 6 years without a land line. When we bought the house
it did not even have a NID. It has the inside wiring to the jacks but
nothing to the street. So we went cell phone only and I have a VOIP line.

I have not sent/received a fax in probably 10 years and dont even own a
fax machine now (except I think the multifunction printer/scanner
will work as a fax). That was another nail in the coffin for the land
line.
I've been using MyFax for about a year now. Anyone that needs to
"fax" can, and it arrives here as a PDF attachment to an E-mail.

Thought about the cell phone dock to make it easier to have the
wife and I both on the line at the same time. But why, I just 3-way call
to her phone if it's that important for both of us to be on at the same
time.
My wife is busy with Girl Scout management, and I have my consulting
business, so we need two lines; and I like the comfort of a desk
phone.

For business use, I'd be a little concerned about the sound quality of a cell
phone, particularly the half-duplex issue.


Amen. Especially if the other side is using a speakerphone in some
echoing conference room. Being on a cell destroys the flow of the whole
meeting and annoys everyone.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

Robert Baer wrote:
Joe Chisolm wrote:
On Fri, 27 Aug 2010 12:34:01 -0700, Jim Thompson wrote:
[snip]
[snip]

Yep. I'm seriously considering dropping the land lines and going to a
cellphone docking system... saving about $125/month.

...Jim Thompson

We are going on 6 years without a land line. When we bought the house
it did not even have a NID. It has the inside wiring to the jacks but
nothing to the street. So we went cell phone only and I have a VOIP
line.

I have not sent/received a fax in probably 10 years and dont even own a
fax machine now (except I think the multifunction printer/scanner will
work as a fax). That was another nail in the coffin for the land
line. Thought about the cell phone dock to make it easier to have the
wife and I both on the line at the same time. But why, I just 3-way call
to her phone if it's that important for both of us to be on at the same
time.

Kill the land line and spend the money on good wine and food.

So, how in the *** does one use a cell phone for (high speed?)
internet connection?

My BlackBerry gives me about 100 kb/s, by using a USB cable and the BB
manager software. It's great as a backup, e.g. during power failures,
or when working on the road. Mine comes as part of the $39 unlimited
data plan.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

On Aug 28, 11:37 am, "k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz"
k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:
On Sat, 28 Aug 2010 08:20:54 -0400, Phil Hobbs





pcdhSpamMeSensel...@electrooptical.net> wrote:
Robert Baer wrote:
Joe Chisolm wrote:
On Fri, 27 Aug 2010 12:34:01 -0700, Jim Thompson wrote:
[snip]
[snip]

Yep.  I'm seriously considering dropping the land lines and going to a
cellphone docking system... saving about $125/month.

                                        ...Jim Thompson

We are going on 6 years without a land line.  When we bought the house
it did not even have a NID.  It has the inside wiring to the jacks but
nothing to the street.  So we went cell phone only and I have a VOIP
line.

I have not sent/received a fax in probably 10 years and dont even own a
fax machine now (except I think the multifunction printer/scanner will
work as a fax). That was another nail in the coffin for the land
line.  Thought about the cell phone dock to make it easier to have the
wife and I both on the line at the same time.  But why, I just 3-way call
to her phone if it's that important for both of us to be on at the same
time.

Kill the land line and spend the money on good wine and food.

  So, how in the *** does one use a cell phone for (high speed?)
internet connection?

My BlackBerry gives me about 100 kb/s, by using a USB cable and the BB
manager software.  It's great as a backup, e.g. during power failures,
or when working on the road.  Mine comes as part of the $39 unlimited
data plan.

Is "unlimited" truly unlimited?  I may have to re-think my phone-only blinders
(they keep bugging me to sign a new contract).- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The only thing "unlimited" is the lengths some carriers will go to in
their efforts to mislead the public.
I won't name names, but we know who they are.

On Sat, 28 Aug 2010 02:03:53 -0700, Robert Baer
robertbaer_at_localnet.com> wrote:

Joe Chisolm wrote:
On Fri, 27 Aug 2010 12:34:01 -0700, Jim Thompson wrote:
[snip]
[snip]

Yep. I'm seriously considering dropping the land lines and going to a
cellphone docking system... saving about $125/month.

...Jim Thompson

We are going on 6 years without a land line. When we bought the house
it did not even have a NID. It has the inside wiring to the jacks but
nothing to the street. So we went cell phone only and I have a VOIP line.

I have not sent/received a fax in probably 10 years and dont even own a
fax machine now (except I think the multifunction printer/scanner
will work as a fax). That was another nail in the coffin for the land
line. Thought about the cell phone dock to make it easier to have the
wife and I both on the line at the same time. But why, I just 3-way call
to her phone if it's that important for both of us to be on at the same
time.

Kill the land line and spend the money on good wine and food.

So, how in the *** does one use a cell phone for (high speed?)
internet connection?

One doesn't... one uses the cable connection

...Jim Thompson

On Sat, 28 Aug 2010 08:18:04 -0400, Phil Hobbs
pcdhSpamMeSenseless_at_electrooptical.net> wrote:

krw_at_att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Fri, 27 Aug 2010 13:45:31 -0700, Jim Thompson
To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon_at_On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote:

On Fri, 27 Aug 2010 15:38:06 -0500, Joe Chisolm
jchisolm6_at_earthlink.net> wrote:

On Fri, 27 Aug 2010 12:34:01 -0700, Jim Thompson wrote:
[snip]
[snip]

Yep. I'm seriously considering dropping the land lines and going to a
cellphone docking system... saving about $125/month.

...Jim Thompson
We are going on 6 years without a land line. When we bought the house
it did not even have a NID. It has the inside wiring to the jacks but
nothing to the street. So we went cell phone only and I have a VOIP line.

I have not sent/received a fax in probably 10 years and dont even own a
fax machine now (except I think the multifunction printer/scanner
will work as a fax). That was another nail in the coffin for the land
line.
I've been using MyFax for about a year now. Anyone that needs to
"fax" can, and it arrives here as a PDF attachment to an E-mail.

Thought about the cell phone dock to make it easier to have the
wife and I both on the line at the same time. But why, I just 3-way call
to her phone if it's that important for both of us to be on at the same
time.
My wife is busy with Girl Scout management, and I have my consulting
business, so we need two lines; and I like the comfort of a desk
phone.

For business use, I'd be a little concerned about the sound quality of a cell
phone, particularly the half-duplex issue.


Amen. Especially if the other side is using a speakerphone in some
echoing conference room. Being on a cell destroys the flow of the whole
meeting and annoys everyone.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

Odd, my current cell phone is full duplex. Ones from 20 years ago
might not have been, conference phones are definitely modal.