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OT: Net Tightens Around China's Covert Bio-Weapons Lab

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Bill Sloman
Guest

Mon May 04, 2020 3:45 am   



On Monday, May 4, 2020 at 1:24:21 AM UTC+10, bloggs.fre...@gmail.com wrote:
Quote:
On Saturday, May 2, 2020 at 10:14:06 PM UTC-4, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Sunday, May 3, 2020 at 5:34:36 AM UTC+10, bloggs.fre...@gmail.com wrote:
On Saturday, May 2, 2020 at 2:27:03 PM UTC-4, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Sunday, May 3, 2020 at 2:15:19 AM UTC+10, bloggs.fre...@gmail.com wrote:
On Saturday, May 2, 2020 at 12:49:42 AM UTC-4, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Saturday, May 2, 2020 at 1:46:00 AM UTC+10, bloggs.fre...@gmail.com wrote:
On Thursday, April 30, 2020 at 6:46:44 PM UTC-4, Cursitor Doom wrote:

snip

They're constantly going into these dangerous areas of SW China where both people and animals are infected with spillover all the time. It's plausible that one of these idiots become infected, was asymptomatic, and traveled to the Wuhan virology lab, spreading it to some locals.

Only to a lunatic conspiracy theory nutcase.

The stupidity of these people exceeds even your own. Like it was a really big deal to quarantine people from areas experiencing COVID-19 infection, but the idiots never thought to do the same for people arriving from an area with undocumented and unknowable infections and humongous reservoirs of PPPs ,(pandemic potential pathogens).

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/26/health/virus-hunters-bat-cave-coronavirus-hnk-intl/index.html

Did you actually read the article.

"After analyzing blood samples of people living near two bat caves in Jinning County, Yunnan province in 2015, Daszak's team found that 3% had antibodies for viruses normally only found in bats -- meaning they had already been exposed to them.
"They might have unknowingly contracted these pathogens and recovered or only had a few body cells infected," he says.""

If only 3% of the locals had antibodies to the bat virus, the virus was clearly rotten at human-to-human transmission, and not going to start any pandemics.

What's this "the" bat virus stuff. They were talking about "a" bat virus, and clearly not COVID-19. COVID-19 and viruses like it don't need bats to survive.

And can't survive in bat populations.


If it's changed the receptor binding segment on its spike protein enough to let it bind to human ACE-2 receptors, it isn't going to bind as well to the bat ACE2 receptors. It may persist for a bit in bat populations, but will get selected out.

> Huh? It not only survives but thrives, mutates and diviserifies like mad in bat populations. Was just reading about a bat virus that jumped into horses and then humans in Australia, something called Hendra. China is not unique in having this problem.

It may last for a few generations in bat populations, but it's going to have a sub-optimal performance as bat virus. It won't last.

RNA viruses mutate all the time, independent of the environment, and diversify in consequence. If the mutated virus doesn't run into a human within those few generations, it's going to die out.

https://www.pnas.org/content/pnas/early/2020/04/08/1919176117.full.pdf

Quote:
The fact that the locals had antibodies to whatever bat virus it was isn't evidence that they'd ever got infected by it.

The corona virus family is huge with 10s of thousands of strains. And antibody testing will give a positive result for all of them, making it impossible to identify the strain. Those people were in all probability infected with a more innocuous strain of the virus, given how ubiquitous it is in that region.


It depends how good the antibody test is. The antibodies themselves are more specific, otherwise the antibodies that everybody has against the corona virus that causes about a quarter of the cases of the common cold would protect us against Covid-19, and it clearly doesn't.

Quote:
They merely had to have been exposed to it. I got hay fever as a kid - I'd been exposed to enough wattle pollen to develop antibodies to it, and when there was enough wattle pollen in the air my sinuses got irritated and I had a thoroughly inconvenient allergic reaction, but I was never infected..

As usual you've got excited by a misleadingly phased alarmist beat-up.

Here's more information about the bat situation in subtropical China. Since 2004 the Wuhan group have discovered dozens of strains of corona, present in bats, that infect human lung tissue, no intermediate host necessary.


They can infect human lung tissue in a Petri dish. Whether they can do a well in an actual lung is less certain. The bat hunters didn't come down with anything like Covid-19 or SARS, so they probably couldn't.

> So the new theory of the pandemic scenario is someone brought an infection from someplace like Yunnan to Wuhan, but the symptoms were mild, so not much attention was paid to it. This first epidemic may have simmered for months until finally, sometime in December 2020, the virus mutated into one with very severe symptoms, and events took off from there.

That's plausible, and I've posted a speculation about that happening as a theoretical explanation of the large numbers of positive reaction to the US antibody tests.

One more corona-virus which produced common cold symptoms could have produced a full-fledged epidemic without anybody noticing.

<snipped the link to the Scientific American popularisation, which doesn't have anything relevant to that theory>

It doesn't explain the fairly strong link - visible in about half the original Wuhan cases - to the Wuhan wet market.

It's more likely that the crucial mutation was to the receptor-binding region of the precursor to the Covid-19 virus, which allowed Covid-19 to be more effective at infecting humans than its precursor.

Once it started multiplying faster in its human hosts, it could infect more cells before the immune system got around to churning out antibodies, letting it infect enough cells to do life-threatening damage before the immune response killed it off.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

Bill Sloman
Guest

Mon May 04, 2020 3:45 am   



On Monday, May 4, 2020 at 2:18:47 AM UTC+10, edward...@gmail.com wrote:
Quote:
On Sunday, May 3, 2020 at 8:24:21 AM UTC-7, bloggs.fre...@gmail.com wrote:
On Saturday, May 2, 2020 at 10:14:06 PM UTC-4, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Sunday, May 3, 2020 at 5:34:36 AM UTC+10, bloggs.fre...@gmail.com wrote:
On Saturday, May 2, 2020 at 2:27:03 PM UTC-4, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Sunday, May 3, 2020 at 2:15:19 AM UTC+10, bloggs.fre...@gmail.com wrote:
On Saturday, May 2, 2020 at 12:49:42 AM UTC-4, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Saturday, May 2, 2020 at 1:46:00 AM UTC+10, bloggs.fre...@gmail.com wrote:
On Thursday, April 30, 2020 at 6:46:44 PM UTC-4, Cursitor Doom wrote:

snip

They're constantly going into these dangerous areas of SW China where both people and animals are infected with spillover all the time. It's plausible that one of these idiots become infected, was asymptomatic, and traveled to the Wuhan virology lab, spreading it to some locals.

Only to a lunatic conspiracy theory nutcase.

The stupidity of these people exceeds even your own. Like it was a really big deal to quarantine people from areas experiencing COVID-19 infection, but the idiots never thought to do the same for people arriving from an area with undocumented and unknowable infections and humongous reservoirs of PPPs ,(pandemic potential pathogens).

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/26/health/virus-hunters-bat-cave-coronavirus-hnk-intl/index.html

Did you actually read the article.

"After analyzing blood samples of people living near two bat caves in Jinning County, Yunnan province in 2015, Daszak's team found that 3% had antibodies for viruses normally only found in bats -- meaning they had already been exposed to them.
"They might have unknowingly contracted these pathogens and recovered or only had a few body cells infected," he says.""

If only 3% of the locals had antibodies to the bat virus, the virus was clearly rotten at human-to-human transmission, and not going to start any pandemics.

What's this "the" bat virus stuff. They were talking about "a" bat virus, and clearly not COVID-19. COVID-19 and viruses like it don't need bats to survive.

And can't survive in bat populations.

Huh? It not only survives but thrives, mutates and diviserifies like mad in bat populations. Was just reading about a bat virus that jumped into horses and then humans in Australia, something called Hendra. China is not unique in having this problem.


The fact that the locals had antibodies to whatever bat virus it was isn't evidence that they'd ever got infected by it.

The corona virus family is huge with 10s of thousands of strains. And antibody testing will give a positive result for all of them, making it impossible to identify the strain. Those people were in all probability infected with a more innocuous strain of the virus, given how ubiquitous it is in that region.


They merely had to have been exposed to it. I got hay fever as a kind - I'd been exposed to enough wattle pollen to develop antibodies to it, and when there was enough wattle pollen in the air my sinuses got irritated and I had a thoroughly inconvenient allergic reaction, but I was never infected.

As usual you've got excited by a misleadingly phased alarmist beat-up..

Here's more information about the bat situation in subtropical China. Since 2004 the Wuhan group have discovered dozens of strains of corona, present in bats, that infect human lung tissue, no intermediate host necessary.

So the new theory of the pandemic scenario is someone brought an infection from someplace like Yunnan to Wuhan, but the symptoms were mild, so not much attention was paid to it. This first epidemic may have simmered for months until finally, sometime in December 2020, the virus mutated into one with very severe symptoms, and events took off from there.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-chinas-bat-woman-hunted-down-viruses-from-sars-to-the-new-coronavirus1/

Footnote: "Jane Qiu is an award-winning science writer based in Beijing."

Some of it might be true, but sugar-coated.

The problem is Chinese police doing the scientific interpretations. They determined what data/results are to be published, and at what time. So, the law suits and damages are based on suppression of information.


The Chinese police won't be doing scientific interpretations. They will be doing their own political interpretations of what they think the science means, and may suppress particular papers if they don't like what the political implications mean to them.

They aren't gong to try to change the papers - that wouldn't work. It's hard enough to get a scientific paper published when you have full control of what's being said. A politically inspired change is going upset the people reviewing the paper no end.

The police would run into a lot of resistance if they tried to suppress a particular paper, people's careers - and the standing of Chinese science - depend on Chinese researchers publishing good papers, so the spooks wouldn't do it lightly or often.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

Bill Sloman
Guest

Mon May 04, 2020 3:45 am   



On Monday, May 4, 2020 at 2:41:28 AM UTC+10, Cursitor Doom wrote:
Quote:
On Sun, 03 May 2020 08:24:15 -0700, bloggs.fredbloggs.fred wrote:

So the new theory of the pandemic scenario is someone brought an
infection from someplace like Yunnan to Wuhan, but the symptoms were
mild, so not much attention was paid to it. This first epidemic may have
simmered for months until finally, sometime in December 2020, the virus
mutated into one with very severe symptoms, and events took off from
there.

And the culprits are:

1) The Chinese appetite for their own version of African bushmeat.


It didn't help, but zoonoses make the jump to humans in all sorts of ways.

https://www.health.nsw.gov.au/Infectious/factsheets/Pages/hendra_virus.aspx

"Hendra virus was discovered following an outbreak of illness in a large racing stable in the suburb of Hendra, Brisbane in 1994."

So the Australian enthusiasm for racing stables also poses a risk.

> 2) Globalism and the non-existent border checks that go with it.

Only in Cursitor Doom's feeble excuse for a mind. Presumably he doesn't travel and hasn't experienced the border checks that do exist (and have become much more stringent recently, despite his imagined Globalist conspiracy.
Quote:

3) Bill Sloman and his ilk for defending 2.


Cursitor Doom not only imagines that there's an actual Globalist conspiracy but also imagines that my rude comments about his lunatic ideas in some way defends it.

A more plausible theory is that Cursitor Doom is an alien from outer space who wants to cripple humanity by getting them to give up rational thinking, and works by praising only the most irrational delusions being peddled by the likes of Russia Today, the Daily Mail and ZeroHedge. Quite why he skips Fox New escapes me - maybe they aren't quite rabid enough.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

Bill Sloman
Guest

Mon May 04, 2020 3:45 am   



On Monday, May 4, 2020 at 4:26:36 AM UTC+10, bloggs.fre...@gmail.com wrote:
Quote:
On Sunday, May 3, 2020 at 12:18:47 PM UTC-4, edward...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sunday, May 3, 2020 at 8:24:21 AM UTC-7, bloggs.fre...@gmail.com wrote:
On Saturday, May 2, 2020 at 10:14:06 PM UTC-4, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Sunday, May 3, 2020 at 5:34:36 AM UTC+10, bloggs.fre...@gmail.com wrote:
On Saturday, May 2, 2020 at 2:27:03 PM UTC-4, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Sunday, May 3, 2020 at 2:15:19 AM UTC+10, bloggs.fre...@gmail.com wrote:
On Saturday, May 2, 2020 at 12:49:42 AM UTC-4, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Saturday, May 2, 2020 at 1:46:00 AM UTC+10, bloggs.fre....@gmail.com wrote:
On Thursday, April 30, 2020 at 6:46:44 PM UTC-4, Cursitor Doom wrote:

snip

They're constantly going into these dangerous areas of SW China where both people and animals are infected with spillover all the time. It's plausible that one of these idiots become infected, was asymptomatic, and traveled to the Wuhan virology lab, spreading it to some locals.

Only to a lunatic conspiracy theory nutcase.

The stupidity of these people exceeds even your own. Like it was a really big deal to quarantine people from areas experiencing COVID-19 infection, but the idiots never thought to do the same for people arriving from an area with undocumented and unknowable infections and humongous reservoirs of PPPs ,(pandemic potential pathogens).

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/26/health/virus-hunters-bat-cave-coronavirus-hnk-intl/index.html

Did you actually read the article.

"After analyzing blood samples of people living near two bat caves in Jinning County, Yunnan province in 2015, Daszak's team found that 3% had antibodies for viruses normally only found in bats -- meaning they had already been exposed to them.
"They might have unknowingly contracted these pathogens and recovered or only had a few body cells infected," he says.""

If only 3% of the locals had antibodies to the bat virus, the virus was clearly rotten at human-to-human transmission, and not going to start any pandemics.

What's this "the" bat virus stuff. They were talking about "a" bat virus, and clearly not COVID-19. COVID-19 and viruses like it don't need bats to survive.

And can't survive in bat populations.

Huh? It not only survives but thrives, mutates and diviserifies like mad in bat populations. Was just reading about a bat virus that jumped into horses and then humans in Australia, something called Hendra. China is not unique in having this problem.


The fact that the locals had antibodies to whatever bat virus it was isn't evidence that they'd ever got infected by it.

The corona virus family is huge with 10s of thousands of strains. And antibody testing will give a positive result for all of them, making it impossible to identify the strain. Those people were in all probability infected with a more innocuous strain of the virus, given how ubiquitous it is in that region.


They merely had to have been exposed to it. I got hay fever as a kind - I'd been exposed to enough wattle pollen to develop antibodies to it, and when there was enough wattle pollen in the air my sinuses got irritated and I had a thoroughly inconvenient allergic reaction, but I was never infected.

As usual you've got excited by a misleadingly phased alarmist beat-up.

Here's more information about the bat situation in subtropical China. Since 2004 the Wuhan group have discovered dozens of strains of corona, present in bats, that infect human lung tissue, no intermediate host necessary.

So the new theory of the pandemic scenario is someone brought an infection from someplace like Yunnan to Wuhan, but the symptoms were mild, so not much attention was paid to it. This first epidemic may have simmered for months until finally, sometime in December 2020, the virus mutated into one with very severe symptoms, and events took off from there.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-chinas-bat-woman-hunted-down-viruses-from-sars-to-the-new-coronavirus1/

Footnote: "Jane Qiu is an award-winning science writer based in Beijing.."

Yep- saw that.


Some of it might be true, but sugar-coated.

It does sound a bit too innocent. And the coincidence of the outbreak occurring in the same city as the virology institute is difficult to dismiss.


Whereas the coincidence of half the early infections being associated with the Wuhan wet market is extremely easy to dismiss.

Not because it's not a stronger association, but because it doesn't have the political content that lunatic conspiracy theory nutcases need to feed their bizarre fantasies.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney



<snip>


Guest

Mon May 04, 2020 3:45 am   



Quote:
So the new theory of the pandemic scenario is someone brought an infection from someplace like Yunnan to Wuhan, but the symptoms were mild, so not much attention was paid to it. This first epidemic may have simmered for months until finally, sometime in December 2020, the virus mutated into one with very severe symptoms, and events took off from there.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-chinas-bat-woman-hunted-down-viruses-from-sars-to-the-new-coronavirus1/

Footnote: "Jane Qiu is an award-winning science writer based in Beijing.."

Some of it might be true, but sugar-coated.

The problem is Chinese police doing the scientific interpretations. They determined what data/results are to be published, and at what time. So, the law suits and damages are based on suppression of information.

The Chinese police won't be doing scientific interpretations. They will be doing their own political interpretations of what they think the science means, and may suppress particular papers if they don't like what the political implications mean to them.


That's not the job of the police either, at least not in any reasonable society. But when they are suppressing health information affecting the rest of the world, then they are liable for damages from the world.

Bill Sloman
Guest

Mon May 04, 2020 4:45 am   



On Monday, May 4, 2020 at 4:40:03 AM UTC+10, bloggs.fre...@gmail.com wrote:
Quote:
On Sunday, May 3, 2020 at 12:41:28 PM UTC-4, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sun, 03 May 2020 08:24:15 -0700, bloggs.fredbloggs.fred wrote:


<snip>

> The Chinese have been seeding the entire globe with corona virus for at least two decades.

Not just the Chinese. MERS is a corona virus, which jumped from bats to camels, and from camels to humans in Saudi Arabia.

There are plenty of other zoonoses, drawn for a wide variety of types of virus, and they show up all over the place. Hendra virus showed up in Australia and is a henipavirus, a kind of myxo virus.

"Henipavirus is a genus of RNA viruses in the family Paramyxoviridae, order Mononegavirales containing five established species."

China has 20% of the world population, and don't seem to be over-represented in the statistics.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

Bill Sloman
Guest

Mon May 04, 2020 4:45 am   



On Monday, May 4, 2020 at 12:42:11 PM UTC+10, edward...@gmail.com wrote:
Quote:
So the new theory of the pandemic scenario is someone brought an infection from someplace like Yunnan to Wuhan, but the symptoms were mild, so not much attention was paid to it. This first epidemic may have simmered for months until finally, sometime in December 2020, the virus mutated into one with very severe symptoms, and events took off from there.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-chinas-bat-woman-hunted-down-viruses-from-sars-to-the-new-coronavirus1/

Footnote: "Jane Qiu is an award-winning science writer based in Beijing."

Some of it might be true, but sugar-coated.

The problem is Chinese police doing the scientific interpretations. They determined what data/results are to be published, and at what time. So, the law suits and damages are based on suppression of information.

The Chinese police won't be doing scientific interpretations. They will be doing their own political interpretations of what they think the science means, and may suppress particular papers if they don't like what the political implications mean to them.

That's not the job of the police either, at least not in any reasonable society. But when they are suppressing health information affecting the rest of the world, then they are liable for damages from the world.


If they actually did, which remains to be proved in any objective sense, there might be a case.

In reality the Chinese response seems to have been confused in December 2019, when the whole evidence for a new health problem was the suspicions of a bunch of front-line clinicians about what looked to them like a new disease.

By the middle of January the problem had been identified as new corona virus and it had been sequenced and the sequence published.

Somebody with a working crystal ball could have done better, and that's the performance your hindsight is demanding.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

Flyguy
Guest

Mon May 04, 2020 5:45 am   



On Sunday, May 3, 2020 at 5:40:01 AM UTC-7, DecadentLinux...@decadence.org wrote:
Quote:
Flyshit <soar2morrow_at_yahoo.com> wrote in news:1ee80a99-33d6-4477-ba9c-
ddce87c5e3ba_at_googlegroups.com:

Yeah, you KNOW because you have sat in on these top-secret briefings.

Donald John Trump has removed restrictions on Asbestos in the US.

He is a respiratory dumbfuck.

And the intelligence community has been telling Trump that it was NOT
a manufactured virus. You dig, you retarded piece of shit. There are
no persons in Trump's "top-secret" meetings telling him the shit you
spewed, because they have already told the world it is not so.

Grow the fuck up, FlyShit.


I'm waiting for a faint glimmer of intelligence out of you, Decayed Intellect, but I am not holding out much hope.

Bill Sloman
Guest

Mon May 04, 2020 9:45 am   



On Monday, May 4, 2020 at 2:29:19 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
Quote:
On Sunday, May 3, 2020 at 5:40:01 AM UTC-7, DecadentLinux...@decadence.org wrote:
Flyshit <soar2morrow_at_yahoo.com> wrote in news:1ee80a99-33d6-4477-ba9c-
ddce87c5e3ba_at_googlegroups.com:

Yeah, you KNOW because you have sat in on these top-secret briefings.

Donald John Trump has removed restrictions on Asbestos in the US.

He is a respiratory dumbfuck.

And the intelligence community has been telling Trump that it was NOT
a manufactured virus. You dig, you retarded piece of shit. There are
no persons in Trump's "top-secret" meetings telling him the shit you
spewed, because they have already told the world it is not so.

Grow the fuck up, FlyShit.

I'm waiting for a faint glimmer of intelligence out of you, Decayed Intellect, but I am not holding out much hope.


I wonder how Flyguy thinks he would recognise a glimmer of intelligence?

His own posts seems to be entirely intelligence-free, and his reactions to other people's posts are phenomenally dumb.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

Bill Sloman
Guest

Mon May 04, 2020 9:45 am   



On Monday, May 4, 2020 at 2:29:19 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
Quote:
On Sunday, May 3, 2020 at 5:40:01 AM UTC-7, DecadentLinux...@decadence.org wrote:
Flyshit <soar2morrow_at_yahoo.com> wrote in news:1ee80a99-33d6-4477-ba9c-
ddce87c5e3ba_at_googlegroups.com:

Yeah, you KNOW because you have sat in on these top-secret briefings.

Donald John Trump has removed restrictions on Asbestos in the US.

He is a respiratory dumbfuck.

And the intelligence community has been telling Trump that it was NOT
a manufactured virus. You dig, you retarded piece of shit. There are
no persons in Trump's "top-secret" meetings telling him the shit you
spewed, because they have already told the world it is not so.

Grow the fuck up, FlyShit.

I'm waiting for a faint glimmer of intelligence out of you, Decayed Intellect, but I am not holding out much hope.


I wonder how Flyguy thinks he would recognise a glimmer of intelligence?

His own posts seems to be entirely intelligence-free, and his reactions to other people's posts are phenomenally dumb.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney


Guest

Mon May 04, 2020 7:45 pm   



On Sunday, May 3, 2020 at 10:41:35 PM UTC-4, Bill Sloman wrote:
Quote:
On Monday, May 4, 2020 at 4:26:36 AM UTC+10, bloggs.fre...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sunday, May 3, 2020 at 12:18:47 PM UTC-4, edward...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sunday, May 3, 2020 at 8:24:21 AM UTC-7, bloggs.fre...@gmail.com wrote:
On Saturday, May 2, 2020 at 10:14:06 PM UTC-4, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Sunday, May 3, 2020 at 5:34:36 AM UTC+10, bloggs.fre...@gmail.com wrote:
On Saturday, May 2, 2020 at 2:27:03 PM UTC-4, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Sunday, May 3, 2020 at 2:15:19 AM UTC+10, bloggs.fre...@gmail.com wrote:
On Saturday, May 2, 2020 at 12:49:42 AM UTC-4, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Saturday, May 2, 2020 at 1:46:00 AM UTC+10, bloggs.fre....@gmail.com wrote:
On Thursday, April 30, 2020 at 6:46:44 PM UTC-4, Cursitor Doom wrote:

snip

They're constantly going into these dangerous areas of SW China where both people and animals are infected with spillover all the time.. It's plausible that one of these idiots become infected, was asymptomatic, and traveled to the Wuhan virology lab, spreading it to some locals.

Only to a lunatic conspiracy theory nutcase.

The stupidity of these people exceeds even your own. Like it was a really big deal to quarantine people from areas experiencing COVID-19 infection, but the idiots never thought to do the same for people arriving from an area with undocumented and unknowable infections and humongous reservoirs of PPPs ,(pandemic potential pathogens).

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/26/health/virus-hunters-bat-cave-coronavirus-hnk-intl/index.html

Did you actually read the article.

"After analyzing blood samples of people living near two bat caves in Jinning County, Yunnan province in 2015, Daszak's team found that 3% had antibodies for viruses normally only found in bats -- meaning they had already been exposed to them.
"They might have unknowingly contracted these pathogens and recovered or only had a few body cells infected," he says.""

If only 3% of the locals had antibodies to the bat virus, the virus was clearly rotten at human-to-human transmission, and not going to start any pandemics.

What's this "the" bat virus stuff. They were talking about "a" bat virus, and clearly not COVID-19. COVID-19 and viruses like it don't need bats to survive.

And can't survive in bat populations.

Huh? It not only survives but thrives, mutates and diviserifies like mad in bat populations. Was just reading about a bat virus that jumped into horses and then humans in Australia, something called Hendra. China is not unique in having this problem.


The fact that the locals had antibodies to whatever bat virus it was isn't evidence that they'd ever got infected by it.

The corona virus family is huge with 10s of thousands of strains. And antibody testing will give a positive result for all of them, making it impossible to identify the strain. Those people were in all probability infected with a more innocuous strain of the virus, given how ubiquitous it is in that region.


They merely had to have been exposed to it. I got hay fever as a kind - I'd been exposed to enough wattle pollen to develop antibodies to it, and when there was enough wattle pollen in the air my sinuses got irritated and I had a thoroughly inconvenient allergic reaction, but I was never infected.

As usual you've got excited by a misleadingly phased alarmist beat-up.

Here's more information about the bat situation in subtropical China. Since 2004 the Wuhan group have discovered dozens of strains of corona, present in bats, that infect human lung tissue, no intermediate host necessary.

So the new theory of the pandemic scenario is someone brought an infection from someplace like Yunnan to Wuhan, but the symptoms were mild, so not much attention was paid to it. This first epidemic may have simmered for months until finally, sometime in December 2020, the virus mutated into one with very severe symptoms, and events took off from there.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-chinas-bat-woman-hunted-down-viruses-from-sars-to-the-new-coronavirus1/

Footnote: "Jane Qiu is an award-winning science writer based in Beijing."

Yep- saw that.


Some of it might be true, but sugar-coated.

It does sound a bit too innocent. And the coincidence of the outbreak occurring in the same city as the virology institute is difficult to dismiss..

Whereas the coincidence of half the early infections being associated with the Wuhan wet market is extremely easy to dismiss.


There has been no such finding about the early infections coming from the wet market. In fact, it has been publicized that Patient Zero had no association whatsoever with the wet market. The whole wet market thing was a rumor started by the virology lab.

> Not because it's not a stronger association, but because it doesn't have the political content that lunatic conspiracy theory nutcases need to feed their bizarre fantasies.

The epidemic was started by an infected worker at the virology institute, probably that female intern who went missing. The place was famous for disregarding even standard infection prevention measures because they believed the bat viruses to be harmless to humans. Like you, they fantasized they knew all there was to know about corona viruses. The infected worker was asymptomatic long enough to infect quite a few locals, and when he/she did exhibit symptoms they were mild enough to ignore with absolutely no action taken.. It was only after a bunch of people starting keeling over about a month later that the authorities started to take notice.

Quote:

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney



snip



Guest

Mon May 04, 2020 7:45 pm   



On Sunday, May 3, 2020 at 10:54:30 PM UTC-4, Bill Sloman wrote:
Quote:
On Monday, May 4, 2020 at 4:40:03 AM UTC+10, bloggs.fre...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sunday, May 3, 2020 at 12:41:28 PM UTC-4, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sun, 03 May 2020 08:24:15 -0700, bloggs.fredbloggs.fred wrote:

snip

The Chinese have been seeding the entire globe with corona virus for at least two decades.

Not just the Chinese. MERS is a corona virus, which jumped from bats to camels, and from camels to humans in Saudi Arabia.


Maybe but they could not find a bat reservoir in Saudi Arabia harboring that virus. The closest they could find was a colony in South Africa slightly less unrelated. If you had half a brain, that should tell you they just didn't look hard enough in China.

Quote:

There are plenty of other zoonoses, drawn for a wide variety of types of virus, and they show up all over the place. Hendra virus showed up in Australia and is a henipavirus, a kind of myxo virus.

"Henipavirus is a genus of RNA viruses in the family Paramyxoviridae, order Mononegavirales containing five established species."

China has 20% of the world population, and don't seem to be over-represented in the statistics.


Bulloney. The 14th century bubonic plague originated in China. I know all the other peripheral information about its origins, so don't bother repeating a bunch of misinformation to let China off the hook.


Quote:

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney



Guest

Mon May 04, 2020 8:45 pm   



On Sunday, May 3, 2020 at 3:15:25 PM UTC-4, whit3rd wrote:
Quote:
On Sunday, May 3, 2020 at 11:40:03 AM UTC-7, bloggs.fre...@gmail.com wrote:

The Chinese have been seeding the entire globe with corona virus for at least two decades.

Oh, you've bought into the Trump blame-China theory? It'd be more
credible if he hadn't just defunded WHO on his other pet theory, and defunded
a US/China investigation into the relevant science.


China did withhold their knowledge of the high transmissiblity of the virus.. They advised WHO against advocating an international travel ban when they put a domestic travel ban in place. They refused international observers access to any information that would reveal how this thing had very real pandemic potential. Trump didn't go far enough soon enough.

WHO and their con artist executive director should be defunded permanently.

Quote:

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/04/27/trump-cuts-research-bat-human-virus-china-213076

China and Russia both have semiofficial crackpot theories, too.

This looks like a real-world episode straight from the
"Can't blind 'em with science, baffle 'em with bullshit" channel.


Bill Sloman
Guest

Tue May 05, 2020 3:45 am   



On Tuesday, May 5, 2020 at 4:13:12 AM UTC+10, bloggs.fre...@gmail.com wrote:
Quote:
On Sunday, May 3, 2020 at 10:41:35 PM UTC-4, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Monday, May 4, 2020 at 4:26:36 AM UTC+10, bloggs.fre...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sunday, May 3, 2020 at 12:18:47 PM UTC-4, edward...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sunday, May 3, 2020 at 8:24:21 AM UTC-7, bloggs.fre...@gmail.com wrote:
On Saturday, May 2, 2020 at 10:14:06 PM UTC-4, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Sunday, May 3, 2020 at 5:34:36 AM UTC+10, bloggs.fre...@gmail.com wrote:
On Saturday, May 2, 2020 at 2:27:03 PM UTC-4, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Sunday, May 3, 2020 at 2:15:19 AM UTC+10, bloggs.fre...@gmail.com wrote:
On Saturday, May 2, 2020 at 12:49:42 AM UTC-4, Bill Sloman wrote:
On Saturday, May 2, 2020 at 1:46:00 AM UTC+10, bloggs.fre...@gmail.com wrote:
On Thursday, April 30, 2020 at 6:46:44 PM UTC-4, Cursitor Doom wrote:

snip

They're constantly going into these dangerous areas of SW China where both people and animals are infected with spillover all the time. It's plausible that one of these idiots become infected, was asymptomatic, and traveled to the Wuhan virology lab, spreading it to some locals.

Only to a lunatic conspiracy theory nutcase.

The stupidity of these people exceeds even your own. Like it was a really big deal to quarantine people from areas experiencing COVID-19 infection, but the idiots never thought to do the same for people arriving from an area with undocumented and unknowable infections and humongous reservoirs of PPPs ,(pandemic potential pathogens).

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/26/health/virus-hunters-bat-cave-coronavirus-hnk-intl/index.html

Did you actually read the article.

"After analyzing blood samples of people living near two bat caves in Jinning County, Yunnan province in 2015, Daszak's team found that 3% had antibodies for viruses normally only found in bats -- meaning they had already been exposed to them.
"They might have unknowingly contracted these pathogens and recovered or only had a few body cells infected," he says.""

If only 3% of the locals had antibodies to the bat virus, the virus was clearly rotten at human-to-human transmission, and not going to start any pandemics.

What's this "the" bat virus stuff. They were talking about "a" bat virus, and clearly not COVID-19. COVID-19 and viruses like it don't need bats to survive.

And can't survive in bat populations.

Huh? It not only survives but thrives, mutates and diviserifies like mad in bat populations. Was just reading about a bat virus that jumped into horses and then humans in Australia, something called Hendra. China is not unique in having this problem.


The fact that the locals had antibodies to whatever bat virus it was isn't evidence that they'd ever got infected by it.

The corona virus family is huge with 10s of thousands of strains. And antibody testing will give a positive result for all of them, making it impossible to identify the strain. Those people were in all probability infected with a more innocuous strain of the virus, given how ubiquitous it is in that region.

They merely had to have been exposed to it. I got hay fever as a kind - I'd been exposed to enough wattle pollen to develop antibodies to it, and when there was enough wattle pollen in the air my sinuses got irritated and I had a thoroughly inconvenient allergic reaction, but I was never infected.

As usual you've got excited by a misleadingly phased alarmist beat-up.

Here's more information about the bat situation in subtropical China. Since 2004 the Wuhan group have discovered dozens of strains of corona, present in bats, that infect human lung tissue, no intermediate host necessary.

So the new theory of the pandemic scenario is someone brought an infection from someplace like Yunnan to Wuhan, but the symptoms were mild, so not much attention was paid to it. This first epidemic may have simmered for months until finally, sometime in December 2020, the virus mutated into one with very severe symptoms, and events took off from there.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-chinas-bat-woman-hunted-down-viruses-from-sars-to-the-new-coronavirus1/

Footnote: "Jane Qiu is an award-winning science writer based in Beijing."

Yep- saw that.

Some of it might be true, but sugar-coated.

It does sound a bit too innocent. And the coincidence of the outbreak occurring in the same city as the virology institute is difficult to dismiss.

Whereas the coincidence of half the early infections being associated with the Wuhan wet market is extremely easy to dismiss.

There has been no such finding about the early infections coming from the wet market. In fact, it has been publicized that Patient Zero had no association whatsoever with the wet market.


The claim about patient zero is correct, but so was the observation about roughly half the early Covid-19 infections being associated with wet market.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/28/how-did-the-coronavirus-start-where-did-it-come-from-how-did-it-spread-humans-was-it-really-bats-pangolins-wuhan-animal-market

"Analysis of the first 41 Covid-19 patients in medical journal the Lancet found that 27 of them had direct exposure to the Wuhan market. But the same analysis found that the first known case of the illness did not."

You may not like it, but you didn't bother to link to any information that contradicted it.

> The whole wet market thing was a rumor started by the virology lab.

But one that made it into the hospital records and the Lancet article.

Quote:
Not because it's not a stronger association, but because it doesn't have the political content that lunatic conspiracy theory nutcases need to feed their bizarre fantasies.

The epidemic was started by an infected worker at the virology institute, probably that female intern who went missing.


This may be a hypothesis that you find attractive, but there's absolutely no evidence to support it, and the fact that 27 out of the first 41 Covid-19 cases had associations with the Wuhan wet market is difficult to square with idea that the very first infected person came from the virology institute.

> The place was famous for disregarding even standard infection prevention measures because they believed the bat viruses to be harmless to humans.

This is nuts. If you are looking at particular viruses, the last thing you want is a random virus sneaking in and making nonsense of your results. People looking at other peoples labs always find stuff to complain about - it's evidence that they've had their eyes open - but boosting that to a claim of total incompetence is pure spin.

> Like you, they fantasized they knew all there was to know about corona viruses.

Why would they have been bothering to study them if they thought that?

You know so little about viruses that you tried to tell us that the scheme to use a virus with a modified geneome to get human cells to produce a protein fragment that looked enough like the receptor (ACE2) binding domain of the SARS-Cov-2 Spike glycoprotein to promote the production of an antibody against it wasn't going to work because the antibodies produced (against corona viruses)
would block the virus doing the work. Despite the fact that you explicitly mentioned that this was a DNA virus (when the corona virus is an RNA virus) you managed to miss the fact that virus doing the work wasn't going to be a corona virus.

You are in no position to complain that other people don't know enough to comment when they clearly know enough to highlight your ignorance.

> The infected worker was asymptomatic long enough to infect quite a few locals, and when he/she did exhibit symptoms they were mild enough to ignore with absolutely no action taken. It was only after a bunch of people starting keeling over about a month later that the authorities started to take notice.

But why would 27 out of the first 41 cases be associated with the wet market if she was the first infectee?

This is nonsense, and a while back you would have been able to recognise this, but you have recently posted quite a lot of other implausible nonsense..
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

Bill Sloman
Guest

Tue May 05, 2020 3:45 am   



On Tuesday, May 5, 2020 at 4:58:29 AM UTC+10, bloggs.fre...@gmail.com wrote:
Quote:
On Sunday, May 3, 2020 at 3:15:25 PM UTC-4, whit3rd wrote:
On Sunday, May 3, 2020 at 11:40:03 AM UTC-7, bloggs.fre...@gmail.com wrote:

The Chinese have been seeding the entire globe with corona virus for at least two decades.

Oh, you've bought into the Trump blame-China theory? It'd be more
credible if he hadn't just defunded WHO on his other pet theory, and defunded
a US/China investigation into the relevant science.

China did withhold their knowledge of the high transmissiblity of the virus.


When? And for how long? The trouble with new infectious diseases is that it takes a while to work out what's going on and how infectious the new disease actually is. Fred and Trump have 100% hindsight, and know exactly what the Chinese authorities should have done, but it ws less obvious at the time..

Quote:
They advised WHO against advocating an international travel ban when they put a domestic travel ban in place. They refused international observers access to any information that would reveal how this thing had very real pandemic potential. Trump didn't go far enough soon enough.

WHO and their con artist executive director should be defunded permanently.


In Fred's ever-so-expert opinion.

Quote:
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/04/27/trump-cuts-research-bat-human-virus-china-213076

China and Russia both have semiofficial crackpot theories, too.

This looks like a real-world episode straight from the
"Can't blind 'em with science, baffle 'em with bullshit" channel.


And Fred does seem to be permanently tuned in to that channel.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

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