OT: Ghostscript, won't install

"Joerg" <invalid_at_invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:8e71b4F5b2U1_at_mid.individual.net...
I vaguely remember that and IIRC that was often considered hardcore
nerdware.

The computer nerds had UNIX, the hardware nerds had transistors... :-)

Most of the non-engineers needed tools that are not
too challenging when it comes to computer skills. They'd totally freak
out if you presented them with this:
http://partners.adobe.com/public/developer/en/ps/sdk/DPS.refmanuals.PSW.pdf


That sort of documentation is meant for programmers, though -- a
hardware engineer wouldn't be looking at it.

This way it was doomed to fail. Just as Linux was and to some extent
still is. You can't tell a non-tech person "Oh, just get the sources, do
this, that and the other thing, and do another build" :-)

Agreed, that's a non-starter that obviously fails the "grandma test."

I'm sure many of them are shocked that Windows has come to dominate the
desktop OS arena rather the then-clearly-technologically-superior
NeXTStep, the Amiga OS, or perhaps even the Mac OS.
It was predictable though. Users go the route that's easiest and
affordable, and that was DOS and later Windows.

This is true, but you might be underestimating how important marketing
was to it as well. Steve Ballmer is a *very* good salesman -- Commodore
couldn't begin to compete, and it was only after a decade or two of
missteps (including the NeXT!) that Steve Jobs has finally managed to
get Apple back to being a real threat to Microsoft.

Here 'ya go, Steve Jobs telling you how great the NeXT is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j02b8Fuz73A (click around some... it's
certainly not worth watching all 35 minutes of it).

(You're right about Apple's main problem initially being how overpriced
they were. These days, while they're not as cheap as PCs, they
definitely pay a lot more attention to that...)

I know this hurts Linux fans or users but it's the way it is, the way
most people are. Just like I don't think automatic transmissions are all
that great but the learning curve is short, so most drivers prefer them.

Only the Linux fans who won't be satisfied until it takes over the
world... which it won't in our lifetimes.

On Tue, 31 Aug 2010 18:51:47 -0700, Joerg wrote:

Sometimes I wonder why that was done, placing all the programming power
into the file that finally goes to the printer. I mean, even in the
early 90's we had rather powerful programs that they called "desktop
publishing software" back then. Expensive, but good. Maybe that was a
reason why people other than myself also abandoned PS, and not just
engineers.

PostScript was an integral part of the "Desktop Publishing" revolution. At
that time, Apple Macs (running either Quark XPress or whatever Adobe's
product was called back then) had the lion's share of the DTP market, and
the LaserWriter was the only printer anyone would consider for serious DTP
work.

The main reason for offloading to the printer was simply performance.
Printing via a lower-level format such as HPGL would require the Mac to
"flatten" the output, plotting individual characters. This would result in
a good chunk of your salary budget being spent on having people watch
"Printing ..." progress bars.

The other reason for using PostScript was that the competitors (mostly
PCL) didn't have the necessary flexibility for professional pre-press
work, e.g. being able to specify halftone patterns, colour spaces, etc. A
lot of the layout work went digital before the print shops did, so the
output from the LaserWriter wasn't just a preview, it was often
"camera-ready artwork" from which the plates would be made.

Joel Koltner wrote:
"Joerg" <invalid_at_invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:8e71b4F5b2U1_at_mid.individual.net...
I vaguely remember that and IIRC that was often considered hardcore
nerdware.

The computer nerds had UNIX, the hardware nerds had transistors... :-)


Nah, we had tubes :-)


Most of the non-engineers needed tools that are not
too challenging when it comes to computer skills. They'd totally freak
out if you presented them with this:
http://partners.adobe.com/public/developer/en/ps/sdk/DPS.refmanuals.PSW.pdf


That sort of documentation is meant for programmers, though -- a
hardware engineer wouldn't be looking at it.

This way it was doomed to fail. Just as Linux was and to some extent
still is. You can't tell a non-tech person "Oh, just get the sources, do
this, that and the other thing, and do another build" :-)

Agreed, that's a non-starter that obviously fails the "grandma test."


Well, so does PS. You have to install this and that, know command line
syntax, certainly not granny-proof. And I knew a lot of secretaries
who'd have freaked out over that.


I'm sure many of them are shocked that Windows has come to dominate the
desktop OS arena rather the then-clearly-technologically-superior
NeXTStep, the Amiga OS, or perhaps even the Mac OS.
It was predictable though. Users go the route that's easiest and
affordable, and that was DOS and later Windows.

This is true, but you might be underestimating how important marketing
was to it as well. Steve Ballmer is a *very* good salesman -- Commodore
couldn't begin to compete, and it was only after a decade or two of
missteps (including the NeXT!) that Steve Jobs has finally managed to
get Apple back to being a real threat to Microsoft.


Yes, you had to be good at sales. But in the PC world it mattered less,
people who needed PCs (at least back then) were technically and
financially savvy. Here the PC archtecture had a major advantage:
Clones. In Europe IBM charged very high prices but clone assemblers
sprung up everywhere like wildflowers. Not with Apple, you either had to
plunk down the dough or you couldn't have one. So, mostly journalists
and some other trades with cushy expense accounts bought. Engineers
always had PCs.


Here 'ya go, Steve Jobs telling you how great the NeXT is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j02b8Fuz73A (click around some... it's
certainly not worth watching all 35 minutes of it).


And he wears a tie!


(You're right about Apple's main problem initially being how overpriced
they were. These days, while they're not as cheap as PCs, they
definitely pay a lot more attention to that...)

I know this hurts Linux fans or users but it's the way it is, the way
most people are. Just like I don't think automatic transmissions are all
that great but the learning curve is short, so most drivers prefer them.

Only the Linux fans who won't be satisfied until it takes over the
world... which it won't in our lifetimes.


It sort of does in the embedded world and servers, but that's it. PC?
Not a chance. <ducking in expectance of major flame wars now

On Wed, 01 Sep 2010 13:56:24 -0700, Joerg <invalid_at_invalid.invalid
wrote:

Joel Koltner wrote:
"Joerg" <invalid_at_invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:8e71b4F5b2U1_at_mid.individual.net...
I vaguely remember that and IIRC that was often considered hardcore
nerdware.
The computer nerds had UNIX, the hardware nerds had transistors... :-)

Nah, we had tubes :-)


Most of the non-engineers needed tools that are not
too challenging when it comes to computer skills. They'd totally freak
out if you presented them with this:
http://partners.adobe.com/public/developer/en/ps/sdk/DPS.refmanuals.PSW.pdf

That sort of documentation is meant for programmers, though -- a
hardware engineer wouldn't be looking at it.

This way it was doomed to fail. Just as Linux was and to some extent
still is. You can't tell a non-tech person "Oh, just get the sources, do
this, that and the other thing, and do another build"
Agreed, that's a non-starter that obviously fails the "grandma test."

Well, so does PS. You have to install this and that, know command line
syntax, certainly not granny-proof. And I knew a lot of secretaries
who'd have freaked out over that.


I'm sure many of them are shocked that Windows has come to dominate the
desktop OS arena rather the then-clearly-technologically-superior
NeXTStep, the Amiga OS, or perhaps even the Mac OS.
It was predictable though. Users go the route that's easiest and
affordable, and that was DOS and later Windows.
This is true, but you might be underestimating how important marketing
was to it as well. Steve Ballmer is a *very* good salesman -- Commodore
couldn't begin to compete, and it was only after a decade or two of
missteps (including the NeXT!) that Steve Jobs has finally managed to
get Apple back to being a real threat to Microsoft.

Yes, you had to be good at sales. But in the PC world it mattered less,
people who needed PCs (at least back then) were technically and
financially savvy. Here the PC archtecture had a major advantage:
Clones. In Europe IBM charged very high prices but clone assemblers
sprung up everywhere like wildflowers. Not with Apple, you either had to
plunk down the dough or you couldn't have one. So, mostly journalists
and some other trades with cushy expense accounts bought. Engineers
always had PCs.


Here 'ya go, Steve Jobs telling you how great the NeXT is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j02b8Fuz73A (click around some... it's
certainly not worth watching all 35 minutes of it).

And he wears a tie!


(You're right about Apple's main problem initially being how overpriced
they were. These days, while they're not as cheap as PCs, they
definitely pay a lot more attention to that...)

I know this hurts Linux fans or users but it's the way it is, the way
most people are. Just like I don't think automatic transmissions are all
that great but the learning curve is short, so most drivers prefer them.
Only the Linux fans who won't be satisfied until it takes over the
world... which it won't in our lifetimes.

It sort of does in the embedded world and servers, but that's it. PC?
Not a chance. <ducking in expectance of major flame wars now

No flames. If you can't cope with PS what IS IT you CAN cope with
?

Jim Thompson wrote:
On Wed, 01 Sep 2010 13:56:24 -0700, Joerg <invalid_at_invalid.invalid
wrote:

Joel Koltner wrote:
"Joerg" <invalid_at_invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:8e71b4F5b2U1_at_mid.individual.net...
I vaguely remember that and IIRC that was often considered hardcore
nerdware.
The computer nerds had UNIX, the hardware nerds had transistors... :-)

Nah, we had tubes :-)


Most of the non-engineers needed tools that are not
too challenging when it comes to computer skills. They'd totally freak
out if you presented them with this:
http://partners.adobe.com/public/developer/en/ps/sdk/DPS.refmanuals.PSW.pdf

That sort of documentation is meant for programmers, though -- a
hardware engineer wouldn't be looking at it.

This way it was doomed to fail. Just as Linux was and to some extent
still is. You can't tell a non-tech person "Oh, just get the sources, do
this, that and the other thing, and do another build"
Agreed, that's a non-starter that obviously fails the "grandma test."

Well, so does PS. You have to install this and that, know command line
syntax, certainly not granny-proof. And I knew a lot of secretaries
who'd have freaked out over that.


I'm sure many of them are shocked that Windows has come to dominate the
desktop OS arena rather the then-clearly-technologically-superior
NeXTStep, the Amiga OS, or perhaps even the Mac OS.
It was predictable though. Users go the route that's easiest and
affordable, and that was DOS and later Windows.
This is true, but you might be underestimating how important marketing
was to it as well. Steve Ballmer is a *very* good salesman -- Commodore
couldn't begin to compete, and it was only after a decade or two of
missteps (including the NeXT!) that Steve Jobs has finally managed to
get Apple back to being a real threat to Microsoft.

Yes, you had to be good at sales. But in the PC world it mattered less,
people who needed PCs (at least back then) were technically and
financially savvy. Here the PC archtecture had a major advantage:
Clones. In Europe IBM charged very high prices but clone assemblers
sprung up everywhere like wildflowers. Not with Apple, you either had to
plunk down the dough or you couldn't have one. So, mostly journalists
and some other trades with cushy expense accounts bought. Engineers
always had PCs.


Here 'ya go, Steve Jobs telling you how great the NeXT is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j02b8Fuz73A (click around some... it's
certainly not worth watching all 35 minutes of it).

And he wears a tie!


(You're right about Apple's main problem initially being how overpriced
they were. These days, while they're not as cheap as PCs, they
definitely pay a lot more attention to that...)

I know this hurts Linux fans or users but it's the way it is, the way
most people are. Just like I don't think automatic transmissions are all
that great but the learning curve is short, so most drivers prefer them.
Only the Linux fans who won't be satisfied until it takes over the
world... which it won't in our lifetimes.

It sort of does in the embedded world and servers, but that's it. PC?
Not a chance. <ducking in expectance of major flame wars now

No flames. If you can't cope with PS what IS IT you CAN cope with
?


I sure can cope with it. But why should I slosh through a muddy creek
when there is a nice clean bridge 100ft away? When I asked here I
thought there is an easy fix but that doesn't seem to be the case. And
as I said my counterpart at the client also has printing struggles with
PS and he grew up with chip design, Mentor output and all that.

So we just go PDF and PNG, problem fixed.

Joel Koltner wrote:
The computer nerds had UNIX, the hardware nerds had transistors...
Nah, we had tubes

Agreed, that's a non-starter that obviously fails the "grandma test."
Well, so does PS. You have to install this and that, know command line
syntax, certainly not granny-proof.

And I knew a lot of secretaries
who'd have freaked out over that.

Yes, you had to be good at sales. But in the PC world it mattered less,
people who needed PCs (at least back then) were technically and
financially savvy. Here the PC archtecture had a major advantage:
Clones.

So, mostly journalists
and some other trades with cushy expense accounts bought. Engineers
always had PCs.

It sort of does in the embedded world and servers, but that's it. PC?
Not a chance. <ducking in expectance of major flame wars now

On Wed, 01 Sep 2010 14:12:19 -0700, Joerg <invalid_at_invalid.invalid
wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote:
On Wed, 01 Sep 2010 13:56:24 -0700, Joerg <invalid_at_invalid.invalid
wrote:

Joel Koltner wrote:
"Joerg" <invalid_at_invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:8e71b4F5b2U1_at_mid.individual.net...
I vaguely remember that and IIRC that was often considered hardcore
nerdware.
The computer nerds had UNIX, the hardware nerds had transistors... :-)

Nah, we had tubes :-)


Most of the non-engineers needed tools that are not
too challenging when it comes to computer skills. They'd totally freak
out if you presented them with this:
http://partners.adobe.com/public/developer/en/ps/sdk/DPS.refmanuals.PSW.pdf

That sort of documentation is meant for programmers, though -- a
hardware engineer wouldn't be looking at it.

This way it was doomed to fail. Just as Linux was and to some extent
still is. You can't tell a non-tech person "Oh, just get the sources, do
this, that and the other thing, and do another build"
Agreed, that's a non-starter that obviously fails the "grandma test."

Well, so does PS. You have to install this and that, know command line
syntax, certainly not granny-proof. And I knew a lot of secretaries
who'd have freaked out over that.


I'm sure many of them are shocked that Windows has come to dominate the
desktop OS arena rather the then-clearly-technologically-superior
NeXTStep, the Amiga OS, or perhaps even the Mac OS.
It was predictable though. Users go the route that's easiest and
affordable, and that was DOS and later Windows.
This is true, but you might be underestimating how important marketing
was to it as well. Steve Ballmer is a *very* good salesman -- Commodore
couldn't begin to compete, and it was only after a decade or two of
missteps (including the NeXT!) that Steve Jobs has finally managed to
get Apple back to being a real threat to Microsoft.

Yes, you had to be good at sales. But in the PC world it mattered less,
people who needed PCs (at least back then) were technically and
financially savvy. Here the PC archtecture had a major advantage:
Clones. In Europe IBM charged very high prices but clone assemblers
sprung up everywhere like wildflowers. Not with Apple, you either had to
plunk down the dough or you couldn't have one. So, mostly journalists
and some other trades with cushy expense accounts bought. Engineers
always had PCs.


Here 'ya go, Steve Jobs telling you how great the NeXT is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j02b8Fuz73A (click around some... it's
certainly not worth watching all 35 minutes of it).

And he wears a tie!


(You're right about Apple's main problem initially being how overpriced
they were. These days, while they're not as cheap as PCs, they
definitely pay a lot more attention to that...)

I know this hurts Linux fans or users but it's the way it is, the way
most people are. Just like I don't think automatic transmissions are all
that great but the learning curve is short, so most drivers prefer them.
Only the Linux fans who won't be satisfied until it takes over the
world... which it won't in our lifetimes.

It sort of does in the embedded world and servers, but that's it. PC?
Not a chance. <ducking in expectance of major flame wars now
No flames. If you can't cope with PS what IS IT you CAN cope with
?

I sure can cope with it. But why should I slosh through a muddy creek
when there is a nice clean bridge 100ft away? When I asked here I
thought there is an easy fix but that doesn't seem to be the case. And
as I said my counterpart at the client also has printing struggles with
PS and he grew up with chip design, Mentor output and all that.

So we just go PDF and PNG, problem fixed.

I can mark-up PDF. Can you ?

"Joerg" <invalid_at_invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:8e7t01Fjn9U1_at_mid.individual.net...
Joel Koltner wrote:
The computer nerds had UNIX, the hardware nerds had transistors...
Nah, we had tubes :-)

Only you QRO guys... :-)

Agreed, that's a non-starter that obviously fails the "grandma test."
Well, so does PS. You have to install this and that, know command line
syntax, certainly not granny-proof.

Yes, although you has to figure that if PostScript had become more
popular, programs such as GhostScript would already come with the OS
itself, just as a very large number of printer drivers do.

And I knew a lot of secretaries
who'd have freaked out over that.

Many secretaries today would probably freak out over having to use
something like Word or WordPerfect for DOS. :-)

Yes, you had to be good at sales. But in the PC world it mattered less,
people who needed PCs (at least back then) were technically and
financially savvy. Here the PC archtecture had a major advantage:
Clones.

Agreed, that was a very large part of the PC's and -- later -- Window's
success.

So, mostly journalists
and some other trades with cushy expense accounts bought. Engineers
always had PCs.

Although the guys doing chip designs, I think, already had UNIX
workstations when PCs were becoming popular in the mid- to late-'80s
there...

These days computers are so cheap the cost difference often doesn't
matter that much; I think the free software guys sometimes fail to
appreciate this: If you just hired a guy for, say, $100k fully-burdened
cost per year, whether you give him a PC running a $100 OS or a free OS
is just down in the noise.

On the other hand, when folks in third-world countries are choosing
OSes, their realistic choices today are usually "pirate a copy of
Windows" or "use a free copy of Linux." I sure wish that more of them
would choose the later option...

It sort of does in the embedded world and servers, but that's it. PC?
Not a chance. <ducking in expectance of major flame wars now

Yeah, I believe you're correct there... although interestingly
UNIX-based OSes seem poised to completely take over the cell phone
handset market.

Jim Thompson wrote:
On Wed, 01 Sep 2010 14:12:19 -0700, Joerg <invalid_at_invalid.invalid
wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote:
On Wed, 01 Sep 2010 13:56:24 -0700, Joerg <invalid_at_invalid.invalid
wrote:

Joel Koltner wrote:
"Joerg" <invalid_at_invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:8e71b4F5b2U1_at_mid.individual.net...
I vaguely remember that and IIRC that was often considered hardcore
nerdware.
The computer nerds had UNIX, the hardware nerds had transistors... :-)

Nah, we had tubes :-)


Most of the non-engineers needed tools that are not
too challenging when it comes to computer skills. They'd totally freak
out if you presented them with this:
http://partners.adobe.com/public/developer/en/ps/sdk/DPS.refmanuals.PSW.pdf

That sort of documentation is meant for programmers, though -- a
hardware engineer wouldn't be looking at it.

This way it was doomed to fail. Just as Linux was and to some extent
still is. You can't tell a non-tech person "Oh, just get the sources, do
this, that and the other thing, and do another build"
Agreed, that's a non-starter that obviously fails the "grandma test."

Well, so does PS. You have to install this and that, know command line
syntax, certainly not granny-proof. And I knew a lot of secretaries
who'd have freaked out over that.


I'm sure many of them are shocked that Windows has come to dominate the
desktop OS arena rather the then-clearly-technologically-superior
NeXTStep, the Amiga OS, or perhaps even the Mac OS.
It was predictable though. Users go the route that's easiest and
affordable, and that was DOS and later Windows.
This is true, but you might be underestimating how important marketing
was to it as well. Steve Ballmer is a *very* good salesman -- Commodore
couldn't begin to compete, and it was only after a decade or two of
missteps (including the NeXT!) that Steve Jobs has finally managed to
get Apple back to being a real threat to Microsoft.

Yes, you had to be good at sales. But in the PC world it mattered less,
people who needed PCs (at least back then) were technically and
financially savvy. Here the PC archtecture had a major advantage:
Clones. In Europe IBM charged very high prices but clone assemblers
sprung up everywhere like wildflowers. Not with Apple, you either had to
plunk down the dough or you couldn't have one. So, mostly journalists
and some other trades with cushy expense accounts bought. Engineers
always had PCs.


Here 'ya go, Steve Jobs telling you how great the NeXT is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j02b8Fuz73A (click around some... it's
certainly not worth watching all 35 minutes of it).

And he wears a tie!


(You're right about Apple's main problem initially being how overpriced
they were. These days, while they're not as cheap as PCs, they
definitely pay a lot more attention to that...)

I know this hurts Linux fans or users but it's the way it is, the way
most people are. Just like I don't think automatic transmissions are all
that great but the learning curve is short, so most drivers prefer them.
Only the Linux fans who won't be satisfied until it takes over the
world... which it won't in our lifetimes.

It sort of does in the embedded world and servers, but that's it. PC?
Not a chance. <ducking in expectance of major flame wars now
No flames. If you can't cope with PS what IS IT you CAN cope with
?

I sure can cope with it. But why should I slosh through a muddy creek
when there is a nice clean bridge 100ft away? When I asked here I
thought there is an easy fix but that doesn't seem to be the case. And
as I said my counterpart at the client also has printing struggles with
PS and he grew up with chip design, Mentor output and all that.

So we just go PDF and PNG, problem fixed.

I can mark-up PDF. Can you ?


Peace-a-cake: Copy into MS-Paint or whatever graphics program, annotate
-> email it off as PNG.

I think one of my programs allows PDF writes but the method above is
fast, and easy. Also allows anyone else to add their own notes.

On Wed, 01 Sep 2010 15:21:04 -0700, Joerg <invalid_at_invalid.invalid
wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote:
On Wed, 01 Sep 2010 14:12:19 -0700, Joerg <invalid_at_invalid.invalid
wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote:
On Wed, 01 Sep 2010 13:56:24 -0700, Joerg <invalid_at_invalid.invalid
wrote:

Joel Koltner wrote:
"Joerg" <invalid_at_invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:8e71b4F5b2U1_at_mid.individual.net...
I vaguely remember that and IIRC that was often considered hardcore
nerdware.
The computer nerds had UNIX, the hardware nerds had transistors... :-)

Nah, we had tubes :-)


Most of the non-engineers needed tools that are not
too challenging when it comes to computer skills. They'd totally freak
out if you presented them with this:
http://partners.adobe.com/public/developer/en/ps/sdk/DPS.refmanuals.PSW.pdf

That sort of documentation is meant for programmers, though -- a
hardware engineer wouldn't be looking at it.

This way it was doomed to fail. Just as Linux was and to some extent
still is. You can't tell a non-tech person "Oh, just get the sources, do
this, that and the other thing, and do another build"
Agreed, that's a non-starter that obviously fails the "grandma test."

Well, so does PS. You have to install this and that, know command line
syntax, certainly not granny-proof. And I knew a lot of secretaries
who'd have freaked out over that.


I'm sure many of them are shocked that Windows has come to dominate the
desktop OS arena rather the then-clearly-technologically-superior
NeXTStep, the Amiga OS, or perhaps even the Mac OS.
It was predictable though. Users go the route that's easiest and
affordable, and that was DOS and later Windows.
This is true, but you might be underestimating how important marketing
was to it as well. Steve Ballmer is a *very* good salesman -- Commodore
couldn't begin to compete, and it was only after a decade or two of
missteps (including the NeXT!) that Steve Jobs has finally managed to
get Apple back to being a real threat to Microsoft.

Yes, you had to be good at sales. But in the PC world it mattered less,
people who needed PCs (at least back then) were technically and
financially savvy. Here the PC archtecture had a major advantage:
Clones. In Europe IBM charged very high prices but clone assemblers
sprung up everywhere like wildflowers. Not with Apple, you either had to
plunk down the dough or you couldn't have one. So, mostly journalists
and some other trades with cushy expense accounts bought. Engineers
always had PCs.


Here 'ya go, Steve Jobs telling you how great the NeXT is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j02b8Fuz73A (click around some... it's
certainly not worth watching all 35 minutes of it).

And he wears a tie!


(You're right about Apple's main problem initially being how overpriced
they were. These days, while they're not as cheap as PCs, they
definitely pay a lot more attention to that...)

I know this hurts Linux fans or users but it's the way it is, the way
most people are. Just like I don't think automatic transmissions are all
that great but the learning curve is short, so most drivers prefer them.
Only the Linux fans who won't be satisfied until it takes over the
world... which it won't in our lifetimes.

It sort of does in the embedded world and servers, but that's it. PC?
Not a chance. <ducking in expectance of major flame wars now
No flames. If you can't cope with PS what IS IT you CAN cope with
?

I sure can cope with it. But why should I slosh through a muddy creek
when there is a nice clean bridge 100ft away? When I asked here I
thought there is an easy fix but that doesn't seem to be the case. And
as I said my counterpart at the client also has printing struggles with
PS and he grew up with chip design, Mentor output and all that.

So we just go PDF and PNG, problem fixed.
I can mark-up PDF. Can you ?

Peace-a-cake: Copy into MS-Paint or whatever graphics program, annotate
-> email it off as PNG.

And it loses search-ability.

Peace is pax vobiscum... piece is the other kind of white meat ;-)

Jim Thompson wrote:
On Wed, 01 Sep 2010 15:21:04 -0700, Joerg <invalid_at_invalid.invalid
wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote:
On Wed, 01 Sep 2010 14:12:19 -0700, Joerg <invalid_at_invalid.invalid
wrote:

Jim Thompson wrote:
On Wed, 01 Sep 2010 13:56:24 -0700, Joerg <invalid_at_invalid.invalid
wrote:

Joel Koltner wrote:
"Joerg" <invalid_at_invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:8e71b4F5b2U1_at_mid.individual.net...
I vaguely remember that and IIRC that was often considered hardcore
nerdware.
The computer nerds had UNIX, the hardware nerds had transistors... :-)

Nah, we had tubes :-)


Most of the non-engineers needed tools that are not
too challenging when it comes to computer skills. They'd totally freak
out if you presented them with this:
http://partners.adobe.com/public/developer/en/ps/sdk/DPS.refmanuals.PSW.pdf

That sort of documentation is meant for programmers, though -- a
hardware engineer wouldn't be looking at it.

This way it was doomed to fail. Just as Linux was and to some extent
still is. You can't tell a non-tech person "Oh, just get the sources, do
this, that and the other thing, and do another build"
Agreed, that's a non-starter that obviously fails the "grandma test."

Well, so does PS. You have to install this and that, know command line
syntax, certainly not granny-proof. And I knew a lot of secretaries
who'd have freaked out over that.


I'm sure many of them are shocked that Windows has come to dominate the
desktop OS arena rather the then-clearly-technologically-superior
NeXTStep, the Amiga OS, or perhaps even the Mac OS.
It was predictable though. Users go the route that's easiest and
affordable, and that was DOS and later Windows.
This is true, but you might be underestimating how important marketing
was to it as well. Steve Ballmer is a *very* good salesman -- Commodore
couldn't begin to compete, and it was only after a decade or two of
missteps (including the NeXT!) that Steve Jobs has finally managed to
get Apple back to being a real threat to Microsoft.

Yes, you had to be good at sales. But in the PC world it mattered less,
people who needed PCs (at least back then) were technically and
financially savvy. Here the PC archtecture had a major advantage:
Clones. In Europe IBM charged very high prices but clone assemblers
sprung up everywhere like wildflowers. Not with Apple, you either had to
plunk down the dough or you couldn't have one. So, mostly journalists
and some other trades with cushy expense accounts bought. Engineers
always had PCs.


Here 'ya go, Steve Jobs telling you how great the NeXT is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j02b8Fuz73A (click around some... it's
certainly not worth watching all 35 minutes of it).

And he wears a tie!


(You're right about Apple's main problem initially being how overpriced
they were. These days, while they're not as cheap as PCs, they
definitely pay a lot more attention to that...)

I know this hurts Linux fans or users but it's the way it is, the way
most people are. Just like I don't think automatic transmissions are all
that great but the learning curve is short, so most drivers prefer them.
Only the Linux fans who won't be satisfied until it takes over the
world... which it won't in our lifetimes.

It sort of does in the embedded world and servers, but that's it. PC?
Not a chance. <ducking in expectance of major flame wars now
No flames. If you can't cope with PS what IS IT you CAN cope with
?

I sure can cope with it. But why should I slosh through a muddy creek
when there is a nice clean bridge 100ft away? When I asked here I
thought there is an easy fix but that doesn't seem to be the case. And
as I said my counterpart at the client also has printing struggles with
PS and he grew up with chip design, Mentor output and all that.

So we just go PDF and PNG, problem fixed.
I can mark-up PDF. Can you ?

Peace-a-cake: Copy into MS-Paint or whatever graphics program, annotate
-> email it off as PNG.

And it loses search-ability.


For the usual chip design review rounds that won't matter.


Peace is pax vobiscum... piece is the other kind of white meat ;-)


Yeah, sorry, I'm tired. Another crisis call, some obscure failure. No
pax there :-)

But pax vobiscum? And here I thought you weren't religious at all ...

[...]

Jim Thompson wrote:
On Sat, 28 Aug 2010 08:01:38 -0700, Joerg <invalid_at_invalid.invalid
wrote:

Rich Webb wrote:
On Fri, 27 Aug 2010 18:54:44 -0700, Joerg <invalid_at_invalid.invalid
wrote:

Joerg wrote:
Gents,

IC designers still seem to live in the Postscript world ... can't read
those dreaded files. Client said to install Ghostscript. So I downloaded
gs871w32.exe from U of Wisconsin.

No matter what I do, this here computation machine bucks and says "not a
valid Win32 application". Running XP. What gives? How can I dodge this
and make it install?

Guys, figured it out: I had to erase and download two more times, then
it stuck. It installed alright. Now I can see the files but it's nearly
not as good as PDF. Did I already say that I never liked Postscript?
It won't display as nicely with the Ghostscript viewer as one has come
to expect from pdf viewers. GSview is more of a preview app for page
layout and such, and doesn't do the rendering tricks with sub-pixel
anti-aliasing and gamma correction that pdf viewers pretty much all
handle nowadays. It expects that the .ps file will be sent onwards to a
high-resolution printer for final rendering.

Yeah, I know, PS is so yesterday. In fact it already was 20 years ago.
Back then I became so frustrated with it that I completely ditched it
and adopted HPGL. That is a much better rendering tool for CAD but
eventually fell from graces for whatever reason.


But, a Ghostscript installation does come with the necessary tools to
convert .ps to .pdf. There are probably wrappers that put ribbons and
bows on this, but all you should need to do is to copy the .ps file to
the directory in the GS install that has ps2pdf14.bat (probably the lib
directory) and run it from the command line against your .ps file. The
result should be a good looking .pdf file.

Thanks, I'll try that. Anything that gets me off of that dreaded PS
format is a good thing. Problem is, with this IC design I am going to
have a barrage of PS files coming at me over the next months. So I
better get some batch process going where I can send all that through a
wringer before I even look at them.

Looks like good old DOS batch file time again. Now that I am intimately
familiar with :-)

Did you miss my comments about GhostView and GhostScript? Something
is amiss in how you're trying to install.


It didn't matter, you can install Ghostscript first. In fact, that's how
it was explained. Worked after downloading several times.


If your only issue is _receiving_ PS schematics, won't any of the PDF
rip-off's handle that? And generating PS is as trivial as installing
a printer driver, such as: Apple LaserWriter II NTX v51.8, then "Print
to File".


I certainly won't generate PS files. That format is IMHO the pits.
Almost nothing can read it anymore these days. HPGL was so much better
for schematics.

Frank Buss wrote:
Joerg wrote:

Again, I don't need to generate or even print PS. I will receive PS
files from an IC design house and must review the schematics, make
changes, maybe mark them up.

I would never use PS internally here. Even if one of the printers might
understand it pretty much none of my office programs does.

Low-tech solution: You could print it (a copy /b to lpt1: from DOS prompt
should work, if you have enabled DOS redirection in the printer driver),
then add your marks, scan it back to PDF (I have a cheap SnapScan scanner,
where you can scan it to PDF with one button click) and send back the
scanned documents.


That would indeed be the low-tech version :-)

I have occasionally done such things in the past but trying to avoid it
if possible. Although, when I have to do mark-ups your idea is probably
a good one because it can still be faster than trying to do the mark-up
in some sort of program. Nothing beats the speed of a pencil.

Maybe, when i was at speed i was fast and accurate with a LARGE tablet

Or you could buy Adobe Acrobat: It can convert PS files to PDF files or
even Word Document (with some losses), with batch converter included (at
least in my version. It is called Acrobat Distiller. Check, if it is part
of your version, if you buy it). And you can edit PDF files with it: E.g.
in my German version there is a tool called "Schreibmaschine" (I wonder if
they did use some automatic translator programs), with which I can enter
text at arbitrary positions and a "Bleistift-Werkzeug": You can guess what
it does, but the name is wrong, actually it is a "Buntstift" really
nice in combination with my Wacom graphics tablet.


After the dismal crash record of Acrobat over here I really don't want
to buy any software from them.

On Sun, 29 Aug 2010 13:12:09 -0700, Joerg <invalid_at_invalid.invalid
wrote:

Frank Buss wrote:
Joerg wrote:

Again, I don't need to generate or even print PS. I will receive PS
files from an IC design house and must review the schematics, make
changes, maybe mark them up.

I would never use PS internally here. Even if one of the printers might
understand it pretty much none of my office programs does.

Low-tech solution: You could print it (a copy /b to lpt1: from DOS prompt
should work, if you have enabled DOS redirection in the printer driver),
then add your marks, scan it back to PDF (I have a cheap SnapScan scanner,
where you can scan it to PDF with one button click) and send back the
scanned documents.


That would indeed be the low-tech version :-)

I have occasionally done such things in the past but trying to avoid it
if possible. Although, when I have to do mark-ups your idea is probably
a good one because it can still be faster than trying to do the mark-up
in some sort of program. Nothing beats the speed of a pencil.

Maybe, when i was at speed i was fast and accurate with a LARGE tablet
and puck with some keyboard entry. Far faster than i ever was with a
pencil and associated tools.

Or you could buy Adobe Acrobat: It can convert PS files to PDF files or
even Word Document (with some losses), with batch converter included (at
least in my version. It is called Acrobat Distiller. Check, if it is part
of your version, if you buy it). And you can edit PDF files with it: E.g.
in my German version there is a tool called "Schreibmaschine" (I wonder if
they did use some automatic translator programs), with which I can enter
text at arbitrary positions and a "Bleistift-Werkzeug": You can guess what
it does, but the name is wrong, actually it is a "Buntstift" really
nice in combination with my Wacom graphics tablet.


After the dismal crash record of Acrobat over here I really don't want
to buy any software from them.

Poor Joerg, he was born with a silver *PHUT* in his mouth :-)

With properly created PDF's, Acrobat can add/change text as well as
add forms with nice colored frames to call attention. I do it all the
time.