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bitrex
Guest

Sun Jan 08, 2017 8:30 am   



http://www.counterpunch.org/2017/01/06/china-saving-america-from-itself/

"[Trump] underestimates Putin, just as he overestimates America’s
military and other strengths in a multipolar world where, especially in
relative terms, the US is correctly perceived as in decline, itself the
tired one, torn by self-imposed demands for military supremacy at the
expense of a deteriorating social safety net and crumbling
infrastructure, and a consuming preoccupation with the culture wars over
class, race, and gender — an emptiness of direction borne out by the
essential sameness of the two political parties in their prescription
for the future.

In that regard, China is everything America is not. It is an ascendant
world social force, as its present development projects in Africa and
Latin America show, rather than ideologically trapped in a rigid
ethnocentric mode. Neither Russia nor China will lie down and play dead
to American ambition."


Guest

Sun Jan 08, 2017 11:26 am   



Well the guy is enjoying his koolaid. That means both sides of the aisle. Let me put it this way :

All these world leaders are rich and they do not want their sit torn up. Same way with the cold war, it was just a ruse to get people to support a huge military buildup. In other words it is all for show.

And it is not just "American exceptionalism" that drives the masses to support this shit, it is misinformation. They say Russia started the shit in Ukraine.

People have no brains if they think that. Ukraine had a Russia friendly government and now they have a US friendly government.

Know why Obama didn't get more involved about the gas in Syria ? Because it is a proven fact that Assad did not use it. Did they put that on the news ? You gotta look long and hard on the internet to find any information on it. Did they tell you that the Georgians ASKED for Russia's help ? Nope.

In 1952 did they tell you the the US removed the lawfully elected President of Iran and installed the son of the Shah, which led the the 1979 coup that put him out and installed theocracy there ? My Parents were around at the time and they never mentioned it. And the Shah was a criminal butcher and they wanted him back, the embassy thing was because of Carter harboring that fugitive from justice ? Did they tell you that the only people the Iranians fucked with were intelligence people and the rest were treated fairly well, as well as letting one go for medical reasons ?

Did they tell you about the assassination of President Diem ?

Did they tell you that the US buys rockets fro Russia because they cannot build their own anymore ? I'd like to see them try to get to the moon again, the dumb shits would probably run windows and the thing would crash before it left the ground.

If there's one thing the author of that article is right about is the decline of the US. The US buys components for military systems from the Chinese, and we are not just talking a few Molex connectors here.

Meantime, China has their own satellite network up there and a weapon that can take ours out. They have already practiced and this was a few years ago.. Russia is pulling stuff out of mothballs and refitting it with modern technology, of note some sort of "submarine killer".

The world is getting better and better weapons. What's the latest on the F-35 ? The US has mo0re weapons, but not the best. An alliance between Russia and China, which I am pretty sure would happen if CLinton got in, would be devastating because quite frankly, we might win the fight in the end but be mighty bloodied up over it, and I mean they will probably bring it here.

But the liberals call Trump supporters deplorable, racist and a few other things. I think most of them just wanted to keep Clinton out because as we MIGHT have big international problems with Trump, we would definitely have them with Clinton.

And the fact is, the democrats, by going for Clinton, pretty much gave Trump the election. Sanders is a non-interventionalist. Clinton is an interventionalist. It would be like Bush 3. Actually 4, because Obama pretty much did what Bush would have done. Attack Iran.


Guest

Sun Jan 08, 2017 4:34 pm   



Quote:
"Humility is something the US forgot quite a while ago, and it seems to
be something Russia and China are in the process of forgetting."


They got good reason - the US.

Tom Gardner
Guest

Sun Jan 08, 2017 5:58 pm   



On 08/01/17 06:53, bitrex wrote:
Quote:
http://www.counterpunch.org/2017/01/06/china-saving-america-from-itself/

"[Trump] underestimates Putin, just as he overestimates America’s military and
other strengths in a multipolar world where, especially in relative terms, the
US is correctly perceived as in decline, itself the tired one, torn by
self-imposed demands for military supremacy at the expense of a deteriorating
social safety net and crumbling infrastructure, and a consuming preoccupation
with the culture wars over class, race, and gender — an emptiness of direction
borne out by the essential sameness of the two political parties in their
prescription for the future.

In that regard, China is everything America is not. It is an ascendant world
social force, as its present development projects in Africa and Latin America
show, rather than ideologically trapped in a rigid ethnocentric mode. Neither
Russia nor China will lie down and play dead to American ambition."


While history doesn't repeat, it does rhyme.

In this case UK in 1930s is similar to USA in 2010s - at
the peak of their empire.

Shame.

bitrex
Guest

Sun Jan 08, 2017 9:29 pm   



On 01/08/2017 04:26 AM, jurb6006_at_gmail.com wrote:

Quote:
If there's one thing the author of that article is right about is the decline of the US. The US buys components for military systems from the Chinese, and we are not just talking a few Molex connectors here.

Meantime, China has their own satellite network up there and a weapon that can take ours out. They have already practiced and this was a few years ago. Russia is pulling stuff out of mothballs and refitting it with modern technology, of note some sort of "submarine killer".

The world is getting better and better weapons. What's the latest on the F-35 ? The US has mo0re weapons, but not the best. An alliance between Russia and China, which I am pretty sure would happen if CLinton got in, would be devastating because quite frankly, we might win the fight in the end but be mighty bloodied up over it, and I mean they will probably bring it here.

But the liberals call Trump supporters deplorable, racist and a few other things. I think most of them just wanted to keep Clinton out because as we MIGHT have big international problems with Trump, we would definitely have them with Clinton.

And the fact is, the democrats, by going for Clinton, pretty much gave Trump the election. Sanders is a non-interventionalist. Clinton is an interventionalist. It would be like Bush 3. Actually 4, because Obama pretty much did what Bush would have done. Attack Iran.


I think the point that the author was trying to make is that when it
comes to the life expectancy of nations, humility equals longevity.

That the hubris of presidents of both parties is the concept that
there's always a winning card to play, that you can always pull a rabbit
out of the hat at the last minute. Sometimes there isn't a winning move.

Humility is something the US forgot quite a while ago, and it seems to
be something Russia and China are in the process of forgetting. It might
set us up a lot better long-term to remember what they're forgetting,
rather than try to play "keep up with the Joneses."

bitrex
Guest

Sun Jan 08, 2017 9:35 pm   



On 01/08/2017 09:29 AM, bitrex wrote:
Quote:
On 01/08/2017 04:26 AM, jurb6006_at_gmail.com wrote:

If there's one thing the author of that article is right about is the
decline of the US. The US buys components for military systems from
the Chinese, and we are not just talking a few Molex connectors here.

Meantime, China has their own satellite network up there and a weapon
that can take ours out. They have already practiced and this was a few
years ago. Russia is pulling stuff out of mothballs and refitting it
with modern technology, of note some sort of "submarine killer".

The world is getting better and better weapons. What's the latest on
the F-35 ? The US has mo0re weapons, but not the best. An alliance
between Russia and China, which I am pretty sure would happen if
CLinton got in, would be devastating because quite frankly, we might
win the fight in the end but be mighty bloodied up over it, and I mean
they will probably bring it here.

But the liberals call Trump supporters deplorable, racist and a few
other things. I think most of them just wanted to keep Clinton out
because as we MIGHT have big international problems with Trump, we
would definitely have them with Clinton.

And the fact is, the democrats, by going for Clinton, pretty much gave
Trump the election. Sanders is a non-interventionalist. Clinton is an
interventionalist. It would be like Bush 3. Actually 4, because Obama
pretty much did what Bush would have done. Attack Iran.

I think the point that the author was trying to make is that when it
comes to the life expectancy of nations, humility equals longevity.


That is to say, "American Exceptionalsm" shines best when we're the
professional kicker with a 97% field goal percentage who's called in to
do one thing and do it well, rather than try to play the star
quarterback who takes all the hits, and takes both the credit for every
win, and the blame for every bungled play.

We've been throwing a lot of interceptions lately. Maybe it's time to go
for some running plays instead.

John Larkin
Guest

Sun Jan 08, 2017 11:19 pm   



On Sun, 8 Jan 2017 01:53:09 -0500, bitrex
<bitrex_at_de.lete.earthlink.net> wrote:

Quote:
http://www.counterpunch.org/2017/01/06/china-saving-america-from-itself/

"[Trump] underestimates Putin, just as he overestimates Americas
military and other strengths in a multipolar world where, especially in
relative terms, the US is correctly perceived as in decline, itself the
tired one, torn by self-imposed demands for military supremacy at the
expense of a deteriorating social safety net and crumbling
infrastructure, and a consuming preoccupation with the culture wars over
class, race, and gender an emptiness of direction borne out by the
essential sameness of the two political parties in their prescription
for the future.

In that regard, China is everything America is not. It is an ascendant
world social force, as its present development projects in Africa and
Latin America show, rather than ideologically trapped in a rigid
ethnocentric mode. Neither Russia nor China will lie down and play dead
to American ambition."


What blather. That reads like a bad high-school essay.


--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

lunatic fringe electronics

John Larkin
Guest

Sun Jan 08, 2017 11:20 pm   



On Sun, 8 Jan 2017 10:58:37 +0000, Tom Gardner
<spamjunk_at_blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

Quote:
On 08/01/17 06:53, bitrex wrote:
http://www.counterpunch.org/2017/01/06/china-saving-america-from-itself/

"[Trump] underestimates Putin, just as he overestimates Americas military and
other strengths in a multipolar world where, especially in relative terms, the
US is correctly perceived as in decline, itself the tired one, torn by
self-imposed demands for military supremacy at the expense of a deteriorating
social safety net and crumbling infrastructure, and a consuming preoccupation
with the culture wars over class, race, and gender an emptiness of direction
borne out by the essential sameness of the two political parties in their
prescription for the future.

In that regard, China is everything America is not. It is an ascendant world
social force, as its present development projects in Africa and Latin America
show, rather than ideologically trapped in a rigid ethnocentric mode. Neither
Russia nor China will lie down and play dead to American ambition."


While history doesn't repeat, it does rhyme.

In this case UK in 1930s is similar to USA in 2010s - at
the peak of their empire.

Shame.


Empire? Do we have to give up Ireland and India and South Africa too?




--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

lunatic fringe electronics

bitrex
Guest

Mon Jan 09, 2017 1:27 am   



On 01/08/2017 11:19 AM, John Larkin wrote:
Quote:
On Sun, 8 Jan 2017 01:53:09 -0500, bitrex
bitrex_at_de.lete.earthlink.net> wrote:

http://www.counterpunch.org/2017/01/06/china-saving-america-from-itself/

"[Trump] underestimates Putin, just as he overestimates Americas
military and other strengths in a multipolar world where, especially in
relative terms, the US is correctly perceived as in decline, itself the
tired one, torn by self-imposed demands for military supremacy at the
expense of a deteriorating social safety net and crumbling
infrastructure, and a consuming preoccupation with the culture wars over
class, race, and gender an emptiness of direction borne out by the
essential sameness of the two political parties in their prescription
for the future.

In that regard, China is everything America is not. It is an ascendant
world social force, as its present development projects in Africa and
Latin America show, rather than ideologically trapped in a rigid
ethnocentric mode. Neither Russia nor China will lie down and play dead
to American ambition."

What blather. That reads like a bad high-school essay.


Please produce your red pen, and circle the parts of the above excerpt
which are untruths...

bitrex
Guest

Mon Jan 09, 2017 1:32 am   



i
On 01/08/2017 11:20 AM, John Larkin wrote:
Quote:
On Sun, 8 Jan 2017 10:58:37 +0000, Tom Gardner
spamjunk_at_blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

On 08/01/17 06:53, bitrex wrote:
http://www.counterpunch.org/2017/01/06/china-saving-america-from-itself/

"[Trump] underestimates Putin, just as he overestimates Americas military and
other strengths in a multipolar world where, especially in relative terms, the
US is correctly perceived as in decline, itself the tired one, torn by
self-imposed demands for military supremacy at the expense of a deteriorating
social safety net and crumbling infrastructure, and a consuming preoccupation
with the culture wars over class, race, and gender an emptiness of direction
borne out by the essential sameness of the two political parties in their
prescription for the future.

In that regard, China is everything America is not. It is an ascendant world
social force, as its present development projects in Africa and Latin America
show, rather than ideologically trapped in a rigid ethnocentric mode. Neither
Russia nor China will lie down and play dead to American ambition."


While history doesn't repeat, it does rhyme.

In this case UK in 1930s is similar to USA in 2010s - at
the peak of their empire.

Shame.

Empire? Do we have to give up Ireland and India and South Africa too?


The author notes that world opinion is that the US is a nation in
decline, and IIRC Trump just ran a successful campaign whose slogan drew
directly from that observation.

So. Is America a nation in decline, or is it not a nation in decline?
Trump seems to believe it is. And in a world of such black-and-white
thinking, it certainly can't be both at the same time.

John Larkin
Guest

Mon Jan 09, 2017 1:48 am   



On Sun, 8 Jan 2017 13:32:44 -0500, bitrex
<bitrex_at_de.lete.earthlink.net> wrote:

Quote:
i
On 01/08/2017 11:20 AM, John Larkin wrote:
On Sun, 8 Jan 2017 10:58:37 +0000, Tom Gardner
spamjunk_at_blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

On 08/01/17 06:53, bitrex wrote:
http://www.counterpunch.org/2017/01/06/china-saving-america-from-itself/

"[Trump] underestimates Putin, just as he overestimates Americas military and
other strengths in a multipolar world where, especially in relative terms, the
US is correctly perceived as in decline, itself the tired one, torn by
self-imposed demands for military supremacy at the expense of a deteriorating
social safety net and crumbling infrastructure, and a consuming preoccupation
with the culture wars over class, race, and gender an emptiness of direction
borne out by the essential sameness of the two political parties in their
prescription for the future.

In that regard, China is everything America is not. It is an ascendant world
social force, as its present development projects in Africa and Latin America
show, rather than ideologically trapped in a rigid ethnocentric mode. Neither
Russia nor China will lie down and play dead to American ambition."


While history doesn't repeat, it does rhyme.

In this case UK in 1930s is similar to USA in 2010s - at
the peak of their empire.

Shame.

Empire? Do we have to give up Ireland and India and South Africa too?


The author notes that world opinion is that the US is a nation in
decline, and IIRC Trump just ran a successful campaign whose slogan drew
directly from that observation.


Standard 2016 internet hyperbolic blather. There's a lot of that going
around.

Quote:

So. Is America a nation in decline, or is it not a nation in decline?
Trump seems to believe it is. And in a world of such black-and-white
thinking, it certainly can't be both at the same time.


There are many possible definitions of "decline." I think there's too
much pastrami and too little corned beef.



--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

lunatic fringe electronics


Guest

Mon Jan 09, 2017 4:09 am   



On Monday, January 9, 2017 at 5:48:28 AM UTC+11, John Larkin wrote:
Quote:
On Sun, 8 Jan 2017 13:32:44 -0500, bitrex
bitrex_at_de.lete.earthlink.net> wrote:
On 01/08/2017 11:20 AM, John Larkin wrote:
On Sun, 8 Jan 2017 10:58:37 +0000, Tom Gardner
spamjunk_at_blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
On 08/01/17 06:53, bitrex wrote:
http://www.counterpunch.org/2017/01/06/china-saving-america-from-itself/

"[Trump] underestimates Putin, just as he overestimates America’s
military and other strengths in a multipolar world where, especially in
relative terms, the US is correctly perceived as in decline, itself the
tired one, torn by self-imposed demands for military supremacy at the
expense of a deteriorating social safety net and crumbling
infrastructure, and a consuming preoccupation with the culture wars
over class, race, and gender — an emptiness of direction
borne out by the essential sameness of the two political parties in their
prescription for the future.

In that regard, China is everything America is not. It is an ascendant
world social force, as its present development projects in Africa and
Latin America show, rather than ideologically trapped in a rigid
ethnocentric mode. Neither Russia nor China will lie down and play dead > >>>> to American ambition."


While history doesn't repeat, it does rhyme.

In this case UK in 1930s is similar to USA in 2010s - at
the peak of their empire.

Shame.

Empire? Do we have to give up Ireland and India and South Africa too?

The author notes that world opinion is that the US is a nation in
decline, and IIRC Trump just ran a successful campaign whose slogan drew
directly from that observation.

Standard 2016 internet hyperbolic blather. There's a lot of that going
around.


A lot of it re-posted by John Larkin who can't seem to see denialist blather without re-posting it.

Quote:
So. Is America a nation in decline, or is it not a nation in decline?
Trump seems to believe it is. And in a world of such black-and-white
thinking, it certainly can't be both at the same time.

There are many possible definitions of "decline." I think there's too
much pastrami and too little corned beef.


The definition of "decline" which includes all the economic growth ending up in the pockets of the top 1% of the income distribution, and none of it in the pockets of the other 99% does seem to fit the USA.

Most of the population correctly see themselves as being ripped off by the elite, which usually leads to the removal of the greedy elite, and their replacement by another elite. Modern representative democracies - and the US constitutional arrangements are baroque antiques - can manage this by having new political parties win power in fair elections.

The US has only got two political parties, and neither of them seems to have a clue how they might move the US towards a state which would offer the majority of the voters something better than the quagmire they've currently got.

That kind of situation has been known to lead to revolution and the installation of new elite even worse than the one it replaced.

In so far as Trump never was a Republican, that may already have happened.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney


Guest

Mon Jan 09, 2017 4:12 am   



On Monday, January 9, 2017 at 9:28:38 AM UTC+11, k...@notreal.com wrote:
Quote:
On Sun, 08 Jan 2017 10:48:21 -0800, John Larkin
jjlarkin_at_highlandtechnology.com> wrote:

On Sun, 8 Jan 2017 13:32:44 -0500, bitrex
bitrex_at_de.lete.earthlink.net> wrote:

i
On 01/08/2017 11:20 AM, John Larkin wrote:
On Sun, 8 Jan 2017 10:58:37 +0000, Tom Gardner
spamjunk_at_blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

On 08/01/17 06:53, bitrex wrote:
http://www.counterpunch.org/2017/01/06/china-saving-america-from-itself/

"[Trump] underestimates Putin, just as he overestimates America’s military and
other strengths in a multipolar world where, especially in relative terms, the
US is correctly perceived as in decline, itself the tired one, torn by
self-imposed demands for military supremacy at the expense of a deteriorating
social safety net and crumbling infrastructure, and a consuming preoccupation
with the culture wars over class, race, and gender — an emptiness of direction
borne out by the essential sameness of the two political parties in their
prescription for the future.

In that regard, China is everything America is not. It is an ascendant world
social force, as its present development projects in Africa and Latin America
show, rather than ideologically trapped in a rigid ethnocentric mode. Neither
Russia nor China will lie down and play dead to American ambition."


While history doesn't repeat, it does rhyme.

In this case UK in 1930s is similar to USA in 2010s - at
the peak of their empire.

Shame.

Empire? Do we have to give up Ireland and India and South Africa too?


The author notes that world opinion is that the US is a nation in
decline, and IIRC Trump just ran a successful campaign whose slogan drew
directly from that observation.

Standard 2016 internet hyperbolic blather. There's a lot of that going
around.


So. Is America a nation in decline, or is it not a nation in decline?
Trump seems to believe it is. And in a world of such black-and-white
thinking, it certainly can't be both at the same time.

There are many possible definitions of "decline." I think there's too
much pastrami and too little corned beef.

Oh, we're in decline, alright. I'll point to a whole generation of
Little-Rexes as proof.


Krw himself is a clearer symptom of decline than any number of little Rexes.. The fact that he doesn't realise it is a necessary part of the syndrome.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney


Guest

Mon Jan 09, 2017 5:28 am   



On Sun, 08 Jan 2017 10:48:21 -0800, John Larkin
<jjlarkin_at_highlandtechnology.com> wrote:

Quote:
On Sun, 8 Jan 2017 13:32:44 -0500, bitrex
bitrex_at_de.lete.earthlink.net> wrote:

i
On 01/08/2017 11:20 AM, John Larkin wrote:
On Sun, 8 Jan 2017 10:58:37 +0000, Tom Gardner
spamjunk_at_blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

On 08/01/17 06:53, bitrex wrote:
http://www.counterpunch.org/2017/01/06/china-saving-america-from-itself/

"[Trump] underestimates Putin, just as he overestimates Americas military and
other strengths in a multipolar world where, especially in relative terms, the
US is correctly perceived as in decline, itself the tired one, torn by
self-imposed demands for military supremacy at the expense of a deteriorating
social safety net and crumbling infrastructure, and a consuming preoccupation
with the culture wars over class, race, and gender an emptiness of direction
borne out by the essential sameness of the two political parties in their
prescription for the future.

In that regard, China is everything America is not. It is an ascendant world
social force, as its present development projects in Africa and Latin America
show, rather than ideologically trapped in a rigid ethnocentric mode. Neither
Russia nor China will lie down and play dead to American ambition."


While history doesn't repeat, it does rhyme.

In this case UK in 1930s is similar to USA in 2010s - at
the peak of their empire.

Shame.

Empire? Do we have to give up Ireland and India and South Africa too?


The author notes that world opinion is that the US is a nation in
decline, and IIRC Trump just ran a successful campaign whose slogan drew
directly from that observation.

Standard 2016 internet hyperbolic blather. There's a lot of that going
around.


So. Is America a nation in decline, or is it not a nation in decline?
Trump seems to believe it is. And in a world of such black-and-white
thinking, it certainly can't be both at the same time.

There are many possible definitions of "decline." I think there's too
much pastrami and too little corned beef.


Oh, we're in decline, alright. I'll point to a whole generation of
Little-Rexes as proof.

bitrex
Guest

Tue Jan 10, 2017 12:36 am   



On 01/08/2017 05:28 PM, krw_at_notreal.com wrote:
Quote:
On Sun, 08 Jan 2017 10:48:21 -0800, John Larkin
jjlarkin_at_highlandtechnology.com> wrote:

On Sun, 8 Jan 2017 13:32:44 -0500, bitrex
bitrex_at_de.lete.earthlink.net> wrote:

i
On 01/08/2017 11:20 AM, John Larkin wrote:
On Sun, 8 Jan 2017 10:58:37 +0000, Tom Gardner
spamjunk_at_blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

On 08/01/17 06:53, bitrex wrote:
http://www.counterpunch.org/2017/01/06/china-saving-america-from-itself/

"[Trump] underestimates Putin, just as he overestimates Americas military and
other strengths in a multipolar world where, especially in relative terms, the
US is correctly perceived as in decline, itself the tired one, torn by
self-imposed demands for military supremacy at the expense of a deteriorating
social safety net and crumbling infrastructure, and a consuming preoccupation
with the culture wars over class, race, and gender an emptiness of direction
borne out by the essential sameness of the two political parties in their
prescription for the future.

In that regard, China is everything America is not. It is an ascendant world
social force, as its present development projects in Africa and Latin America
show, rather than ideologically trapped in a rigid ethnocentric mode. Neither
Russia nor China will lie down and play dead to American ambition."


While history doesn't repeat, it does rhyme.

In this case UK in 1930s is similar to USA in 2010s - at
the peak of their empire.

Shame.
ht
Empire? Do we have to give up Ireland and India and South Africa too?


The author notes that world opinion is that the US is a nation in
decline, and IIRC Trump just ran a successful campaign whose slogan drew
directly from that observation.

Standard 2016 internet hyperbolic blather. There's a lot of that going
around.


So. Is America a nation in decline, or is it not a nation in decline?
Trump seems to believe it is. And in a world of such black-and-white
thinking, it certainly can't be both at the same time.

There are many possible definitions of "decline." I think there's too
much pastrami and too little corned beef.

Oh, we're in decline, alright. I'll point to a whole generation of
Little-Rexes as proof.


I woke up this morning and thought "You know, I've really been slacking
on my plans to destroy America. KRW hasn't even threatened to shoot me
in a week or two. I'd better step it up a level."

Time to get back to work, I guess...

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