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krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz
Guest
Guest
Wed Aug 25, 2010 11:40 pm
On Wed, 25 Aug 2010 02:52:02 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
<mike.terrell_at_earthlink.net> wrote:
Quote:
"krw_at_att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz" wrote:
Sure. We do all our own assembly. Our reflow oven is kinda crude (only
five-stage), but other than that the stuff works very well. They're talking
about getting an eleven-stage oven but I think the holdup is trying to figure
out how to slip one into production without a huge risk of missing ships.
Does your current reflow oven have a profile for pizzas?
No, but it would probably work better as a pizza oven.
krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz
Guest
Guest
Wed Aug 25, 2010 11:50 pm
On Wed, 25 Aug 2010 11:13:01 -0700, "Joel Koltner"
<zapwireDASHgroups_at_yahoo.com> wrote:
Quote:
krw_at_att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz> wrote in message
news:v2s876d32ic8abu7o2eqcvj93pmcr7ppe9_at_4ax.com...
On Tue, 24 Aug 2010 17:41:03 -0700, "Joel Koltner"
zapwireDASHgroups_at_yahoo.com> wrote:
Do you guys do any pick & place/reflow/assembly there? We have a manually
operaeted pick & place machine and a small reflow oven, which is convenient
at
times.
Sure. We do all our own assembly.
We do assembly in-house either when time is tight or when the boards are
simpler. We have some military products where, while the designs aren't
particularly complex -- just a whole bunch of roughly the same circuit
repeated over and over -- some boards end up being something upwards of a
thousand discrete parts, and the techs really prefer not to have to sit down
and pick-and-place that many parts manually... so those go to a contract
manufacturer.
news:v2s876d32ic8abu7o2eqcvj93pmcr7ppe9_at_4ax.com...
On Tue, 24 Aug 2010 17:41:03 -0700, "Joel Koltner"
zapwireDASHgroups_at_yahoo.com> wrote:
Do you guys do any pick & place/reflow/assembly there? We have a manually
operaeted pick & place machine and a small reflow oven, which is convenient
at
times.
Sure. We do all our own assembly.
We do assembly in-house either when time is tight or when the boards are
simpler. We have some military products where, while the designs aren't
particularly complex -- just a whole bunch of roughly the same circuit
repeated over and over -- some boards end up being something upwards of a
thousand discrete parts, and the techs really prefer not to have to sit down
and pick-and-place that many parts manually... so those go to a contract
manufacturer.
The motherboard in that widget you were playing with has something like 1700
components.
Quote:
Our reflow oven is kinda crude (only
five-stage), but other than that the stuff works very well.
Same here (or maybe 6 stages? -- but certainly not 11).
five-stage), but other than that the stuff works very well.
Same here (or maybe 6 stages? -- but certainly not 11).
Five or six is OK, as long as you don't want to do RoHS. If you have any
plans to do RoHS, the more the merrier. Five works, if nothing goes wrong but
it stresses parts more than I'd like. With nine or eleven stages you can soak
everything longer and then spike it for the reflow.
Quote:
They're talking
about getting an eleven-stage oven but I think the holdup is trying to
figure
out how to slip one into production without a huge risk of missing ships.
We're planning on building an entirely new shop with a pretty fancy production
line. It's been delayed due to the slump in the economy (customers delaying
or cancelling orders), although it's now planned to break ground by the end of
the year, which is pretty cool. (It is a bit cramped here right now...)
There was talk about offering contract assembly services to help pay for all
this if we don't have enough of our own goodies to keep at least one shift
going every day year 'round; should be interesting to see how it plays out.
about getting an eleven-stage oven but I think the holdup is trying to
figure
out how to slip one into production without a huge risk of missing ships.
We're planning on building an entirely new shop with a pretty fancy production
line. It's been delayed due to the slump in the economy (customers delaying
or cancelling orders), although it's now planned to break ground by the end of
the year, which is pretty cool. (It is a bit cramped here right now...)
There was talk about offering contract assembly services to help pay for all
this if we don't have enough of our own goodies to keep at least one shift
going every day year 'round; should be interesting to see how it plays out.
AIUI, we did contract manufacturing at first, too. It's a bigger PITA than
it's worth. Splitting allegiances isn't a good position to be in, either.
Quote:
[SDRAM controllers]
Hint: They still aren't. ;-)
Ah, good to know!
Hint: They still aren't. ;-)
Ah, good to know!
We abused the software quite a bit. If you do everything by the book they may
work. ;-)
Quote:
I did pretty well implementing wide logic (things like comparators) using
Xilinx' fast-carry chains. I could certainly beat Xilinx' synthesis. I
checked again a couple of years ago and they were using the carry chains for
wide logic. In '98 or '99 Xilinx' synthesis was so bad I bought Synplify
Pro.
We were using Synplify as well -- Xilinx was packaging FPGA Express (aka, FPGA
Distress) at the time, and it was really quite awful -- worse than the free
synthesis tools that Cypress gave you for their CPLDs!
Xilinx' fast-carry chains. I could certainly beat Xilinx' synthesis. I
checked again a couple of years ago and they were using the carry chains for
wide logic. In '98 or '99 Xilinx' synthesis was so bad I bought Synplify
Pro.
We were using Synplify as well -- Xilinx was packaging FPGA Express (aka, FPGA
Distress) at the time, and it was really quite awful -- worse than the free
synthesis tools that Cypress gave you for their CPLDs!
I really liked Synplify (Amplify was a sweet idea too). Too bad Synopsis
bought 'em. Actually, I'm finding that the freebie Altera stuff works pretty
well. I haven't really stressed it, but it's very easy to use. I like the
direction they're going, too.
krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz
Guest
Guest
Wed Aug 25, 2010 11:55 pm
On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 07:49:06 +1000, Grant <omg_at_grrr.id.au> wrote:
Quote:
On Tue, 24 Aug 2010 18:35:53 +0000 (UTC), Grant Edwards <invalid_at_invalid.invalid> wrote:
...
I suppose they get partial credit. They're behind people with geeky
hobbies, but ahead of people who didn't even bother making a PIC blink
an LED.
I remember interviewing one guy who had programmed a single chip uC and
7x5 matrix display to spell out our company name in scrolling display.
But it didn't help that he couldn't explain some of the operation of it.
...
I suppose they get partial credit. They're behind people with geeky
hobbies, but ahead of people who didn't even bother making a PIC blink
an LED.
I remember interviewing one guy who had programmed a single chip uC and
7x5 matrix display to spell out our company name in scrolling display.
But it didn't help that he couldn't explain some of the operation of it.
That's a big red flag! When I was interviewing applicants that was an
immediate thumbs-down. We weren't allowed to ask technical questions (i.e.
give a test), so we talked about their projects. If they could explain what
they did and how it worked, I'd move on to something closer to our problem and
ask how they'd go about solving it.
Quote:
Late '80s, early '90s would've been an OTP 6805 family controller.
Of course the processor isn't really important. The difference is just ones
and zeros.
krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz
Guest
Guest
Wed Aug 25, 2010 11:57 pm
On Wed, 25 Aug 2010 09:27:11 -0700, Tim Wescott <tim_at_seemywebsite.com> wrote:
Quote:
On 08/25/2010 09:11 AM, Mikko Syrjälahti wrote:
Tim Wescott<tim_at_seemywebsite.com> writes:
snip
We're constantly doing projects where we do things we've never done before,
so the learning capability is an absolute must in my business.
Boy, it's nice to see someone in a position to hire saying that. I've
seen all too many people who are trying to do something unique, yet
can't gather the courage to go hire someone unless they've done exactly
that never-before-done thing.
Tim Wescott<tim_at_seemywebsite.com> writes:
snip
We're constantly doing projects where we do things we've never done before,
so the learning capability is an absolute must in my business.
Boy, it's nice to see someone in a position to hire saying that. I've
seen all too many people who are trying to do something unique, yet
can't gather the courage to go hire someone unless they've done exactly
that never-before-done thing.
....with ten years experience doing the never-been-done-before thing with
hardware that's two years old.
Joel Koltner
Guest
Guest
Thu Aug 26, 2010 1:14 am
<krw_at_att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz> wrote in message
news:fi7b76p4o26githcceb0afg2qh4c148tca_at_4ax.com...
Quote:
That's a big red flag! When I was interviewing applicants that was an
immediate thumbs-down. We weren't allowed to ask technical questions (i.e.
give a test), so we talked about their projects.
immediate thumbs-down. We weren't allowed to ask technical questions (i.e.
give a test), so we talked about their projects.
Was there any explanation given for the "don't ask technical questions"
policy? Seems kinda bizarre...!
Jim Thompson
Guest
Guest
Thu Aug 26, 2010 1:26 am
On Wed, 25 Aug 2010 17:14:43 -0700, "Joel Koltner"
<zapwireDASHgroups_at_yahoo.com> wrote:
Quote:
krw_at_att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz> wrote in message
news:fi7b76p4o26githcceb0afg2qh4c148tca_at_4ax.com...
That's a big red flag! When I was interviewing applicants that was an
immediate thumbs-down. We weren't allowed to ask technical questions (i.e.
give a test), so we talked about their projects.
Was there any explanation given for the "don't ask technical questions"
policy? Seems kinda bizarre...!
news:fi7b76p4o26githcceb0afg2qh4c148tca_at_4ax.com...
That's a big red flag! When I was interviewing applicants that was an
immediate thumbs-down. We weren't allowed to ask technical questions (i.e.
give a test), so we talked about their projects.
Was there any explanation given for the "don't ask technical questions"
policy? Seems kinda bizarre...!
"krw" is a graduate of politically correct IBM
...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |
Spice is like a sports car...
Performance only as good as the person behind the wheel.
Joel Koltner
Guest
Guest
Thu Aug 26, 2010 1:26 am
Hi Keith,
<krw_at_att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz> wrote in message
news:ku6b765s7rdo2id7e4kl3jia14jaldk1pa_at_4ax.com...
Quote:
The motherboard in that widget you were playing with has something like 1700
components.
components.
We have some boxes that are something like 3,000 parts... but they're spread
over a large handful of boards inside.
So you win for "most parts on a single board." :-)
I'd still be worried that massive ferrite choke on the internal Ethernet cable
might get lose some day and start smashing up all those nice audio
transformers and relays you have in there!
Quote:
AIUI, we did contract manufacturing at first, too. It's a bigger PITA than
it's worth. Splitting allegiances isn't a good position to be in, either.
it's worth. Splitting allegiances isn't a good position to be in, either.
Hmm, good points. I'll keep that in mind.
Quote:
I really liked Synplify (Amplify was a sweet idea too). Too bad Synopsis
bought 'em.
bought 'em.
Agreed; Synplify was quite good. I was no longer doing FPGA design by the
time Synopsys bought'em, at least.
The Cypress VHDL synthesis tool (Warp) was nice in that (kinda similar to
LTSpice) it'd been written largely by a single guy up at Cypress's Beaverton,
Oregon office -- made for nice "one stop shopping" for tech support if you
ever needed it.
---Joel
krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz
Guest
Guest
Thu Aug 26, 2010 1:27 am
On Wed, 25 Aug 2010 17:14:43 -0700, "Joel Koltner"
<zapwireDASHgroups_at_yahoo.com> wrote:
Quote:
krw_at_att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz> wrote in message
news:fi7b76p4o26githcceb0afg2qh4c148tca_at_4ax.com...
That's a big red flag! When I was interviewing applicants that was an
immediate thumbs-down. We weren't allowed to ask technical questions (i.e.
give a test), so we talked about their projects.
Was there any explanation given for the "don't ask technical questions"
policy? Seems kinda bizarre...!
news:fi7b76p4o26githcceb0afg2qh4c148tca_at_4ax.com...
That's a big red flag! When I was interviewing applicants that was an
immediate thumbs-down. We weren't allowed to ask technical questions (i.e.
give a test), so we talked about their projects.
Was there any explanation given for the "don't ask technical questions"
policy? Seems kinda bizarre...!
Law suits. If it's not a sanctioned exam there will be charges of
discrimination, sometime, and you *will* lose. There were standardized exams
given to programming candidates but engineers were always considered more
"professional".
I've found that very few companies gave any sort of test, other than as I
suggested above. If all of the companies I've interviewed, only two have
given any sort of an identifiable "quiz"; one 36 years ago (NCR - a
ball-busting gang mugging) and the other my CPoE (trivial - what's the gain of
this OpAmp circuit, ...really, an instrumentation amp).
krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz
Guest
Guest
Thu Aug 26, 2010 1:37 am
On Wed, 25 Aug 2010 17:26:27 -0700, "Joel Koltner"
<zapwireDASHgroups_at_yahoo.com> wrote:
Quote:
Hi Keith,
krw_at_att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz> wrote in message
news:ku6b765s7rdo2id7e4kl3jia14jaldk1pa_at_4ax.com...
The motherboard in that widget you were playing with has something like 1700
components.
We have some boxes that are something like 3,000 parts... but they're spread
over a large handful of boards inside.
So you win for "most parts on a single board."
krw_at_att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz> wrote in message
news:ku6b765s7rdo2id7e4kl3jia14jaldk1pa_at_4ax.com...
The motherboard in that widget you were playing with has something like 1700
components.
We have some boxes that are something like 3,000 parts... but they're spread
over a large handful of boards inside.
So you win for "most parts on a single board."
If I did it again I think I could cut it by almost half, or get rid of the
other board completely. Not going to happen, though.
Quote:
I'd still be worried that massive ferrite choke on the internal Ethernet cable
might get lose some day and start smashing up all those nice audio
transformers and relays you have in there!
might get lose some day and start smashing up all those nice audio
transformers and relays you have in there!
It's still on the rope.
You should see the monster on one of the flat
cables in our football product. It's a real Rube. Compliance afterthoughts
are seldom pretty. :-(
Quote:
AIUI, we did contract manufacturing at first, too. It's a bigger PITA than
it's worth. Splitting allegiances isn't a good position to be in, either.
Hmm, good points. I'll keep that in mind.
it's worth. Splitting allegiances isn't a good position to be in, either.
Hmm, good points. I'll keep that in mind.
It brings home some bacon, I understand. Ask your boss, "if it comes down to
running our product or theirs..."
Quote:
I really liked Synplify (Amplify was a sweet idea too). Too bad Synopsis
bought 'em.
Agreed; Synplify was quite good. I was no longer doing FPGA design by the
time Synopsys bought'em, at least.
The Cypress VHDL synthesis tool (Warp) was nice in that (kinda similar to
LTSpice) it'd been written largely by a single guy up at Cypress's Beaverton,
Oregon office -- made for nice "one stop shopping" for tech support if you
ever needed it.
bought 'em.
Agreed; Synplify was quite good. I was no longer doing FPGA design by the
time Synopsys bought'em, at least.
The Cypress VHDL synthesis tool (Warp) was nice in that (kinda similar to
LTSpice) it'd been written largely by a single guy up at Cypress's Beaverton,
Oregon office -- made for nice "one stop shopping" for tech support if you
ever needed it.
I played around with Actel's a bit too. It seems to work, but I don't like
their parts as much. LUT-3s do an amazing job of eating up cells (multiply
your estimates by at least two). OTOH, Xilinx's new LUT-6 (Spartan 6) is
sweet. I'm 95% sure I'm going to stick with Altera, though. Cost and
packaging are really what drives the decision.
Joel Koltner
Guest
Guest
Thu Aug 26, 2010 1:41 am
<krw_at_att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz> wrote in message
news:jrcb76t2i4glj13i89fgmr7p23fjglk1uf_at_4ax.com...
Quote:
On Wed, 25 Aug 2010 17:14:43 -0700, "Joel Koltner"
zapwireDASHgroups_at_yahoo.com> wrote:
Was there any explanation given for the "don't ask technical questions"
policy? Seems kinda bizarre...!
Law suits. If it's not a sanctioned exam there will be charges of
discrimination, sometime, and you *will* lose.
zapwireDASHgroups_at_yahoo.com> wrote:
Was there any explanation given for the "don't ask technical questions"
policy? Seems kinda bizarre...!
Law suits. If it's not a sanctioned exam there will be charges of
discrimination, sometime, and you *will* lose.
"Yes, we absolutely discriminate against people who don't have the right
technical chops... and we're proud of it!"
:-)
OK, I understand what you're saying though... that's big business today, I
suppose.
---Joel
krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz
Guest
Guest
Thu Aug 26, 2010 1:42 am
On Wed, 25 Aug 2010 17:26:19 -0700, Jim Thompson
<To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon_at_On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote:
Quote:
On Wed, 25 Aug 2010 17:14:43 -0700, "Joel Koltner"
zapwireDASHgroups_at_yahoo.com> wrote:
krw_at_att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz> wrote in message
news:fi7b76p4o26githcceb0afg2qh4c148tca_at_4ax.com...
That's a big red flag! When I was interviewing applicants that was an
immediate thumbs-down. We weren't allowed to ask technical questions (i.e.
give a test), so we talked about their projects.
Was there any explanation given for the "don't ask technical questions"
policy? Seems kinda bizarre...!
"krw" is a graduate of politically correct IBM
zapwireDASHgroups_at_yahoo.com> wrote:
krw_at_att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz> wrote in message
news:fi7b76p4o26githcceb0afg2qh4c148tca_at_4ax.com...
That's a big red flag! When I was interviewing applicants that was an
immediate thumbs-down. We weren't allowed to ask technical questions (i.e.
give a test), so we talked about their projects.
Was there any explanation given for the "don't ask technical questions"
policy? Seems kinda bizarre...!
"krw" is a graduate of politically correct IBM
Yup. Not so much "politically correct" as "litigation adverse", or "lawyer
choked". Why the frownie? I did graduate.
krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz
Guest
Guest
Thu Aug 26, 2010 1:46 am
On Wed, 25 Aug 2010 17:41:39 -0700, "Joel Koltner"
<zapwireDASHgroups_at_yahoo.com> wrote:
Quote:
krw_at_att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz> wrote in message
news:jrcb76t2i4glj13i89fgmr7p23fjglk1uf_at_4ax.com...
On Wed, 25 Aug 2010 17:14:43 -0700, "Joel Koltner"
zapwireDASHgroups_at_yahoo.com> wrote:
Was there any explanation given for the "don't ask technical questions"
policy? Seems kinda bizarre...!
Law suits. If it's not a sanctioned exam there will be charges of
discrimination, sometime, and you *will* lose.
"Yes, we absolutely discriminate against people who don't have the right
technical chops... and we're proud of it!"
:-)
OK, I understand what you're saying though... that's big business today, I
suppose.
news:jrcb76t2i4glj13i89fgmr7p23fjglk1uf_at_4ax.com...
On Wed, 25 Aug 2010 17:14:43 -0700, "Joel Koltner"
zapwireDASHgroups_at_yahoo.com> wrote:
Was there any explanation given for the "don't ask technical questions"
policy? Seems kinda bizarre...!
Law suits. If it's not a sanctioned exam there will be charges of
discrimination, sometime, and you *will* lose.
"Yes, we absolutely discriminate against people who don't have the right
technical chops... and we're proud of it!"
:-)
OK, I understand what you're saying though... that's big business today, I
suppose.
"You gave *ME* that difficult exam because I'm <fill-in-your-favorite-
protected-class> but you didn't give <white male> as difficult of an exam!
<Sniffle, Wah!>"
The threat is real. If you make the interview about them it becomes much more
difficult for their lawyer.
Michael A. Terrell
Guest
Guest
Thu Aug 26, 2010 2:30 am
"krw_at_att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz" wrote:
Quote:
On Wed, 25 Aug 2010 02:52:02 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
mike.terrell_at_earthlink.net> wrote:
"krw_at_att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz" wrote:
Sure. We do all our own assembly. Our reflow oven is kinda crude (only
five-stage), but other than that the stuff works very well. They're talking
about getting an eleven-stage oven but I think the holdup is trying to figure
out how to slip one into production without a huge risk of missing ships.
Does your current reflow oven have a profile for pizzas? ;-)
No, but it would probably work better as a pizza oven.
that was what we called our old ovens at Microdyne. "Call the M.E.,
the pizza oven is down again". They finally replaced the pair with a
computer controlled Heller oven.
Michael A. Terrell
Guest
Guest
Thu Aug 26, 2010 2:40 am
"krw_at_att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz" wrote:
Quote:
On Wed, 25 Aug 2010 09:27:11 -0700, Tim Wescott <tim_at_seemywebsite.com> wrote:
On 08/25/2010 09:11 AM, Mikko Syrjälahti wrote:
Tim Wescott<tim_at_seemywebsite.com> writes:
snip
We're constantly doing projects where we do things we've never done before,
so the learning capability is an absolute must in my business.
Boy, it's nice to see someone in a position to hire saying that. I've
seen all too many people who are trying to do something unique, yet
can't gather the courage to go hire someone unless they've done exactly
that never-before-done thing.
...with ten years experience doing the never-been-done-before thing with
hardware that's two years old.
And 18 months on parts released, within this week?
In 1996, while interviewing for a job I was told that one of the
requirements was 15 years experience with Win 95. I pointed out that
they were fools, and walked out. They weren't around for long. I guess
they couldn't find enough experienced people.
krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz
Guest
Guest
Thu Aug 26, 2010 4:05 am
On Wed, 25 Aug 2010 21:30:55 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
<mike.terrell_at_earthlink.net> wrote:
Quote:
"krw_at_att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz" wrote:
On Wed, 25 Aug 2010 02:52:02 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
mike.terrell_at_earthlink.net> wrote:
"krw_at_att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz" wrote:
Sure. We do all our own assembly. Our reflow oven is kinda crude (only
five-stage), but other than that the stuff works very well. They're talking
about getting an eleven-stage oven but I think the holdup is trying to figure
out how to slip one into production without a huge risk of missing ships.
Does your current reflow oven have a profile for pizzas? ;-)
No, but it would probably work better as a pizza oven. ;-)
that was what we called our old ovens at Microdyne. "Call the M.E.,
the pizza oven is down again". They finally replaced the pair with a
computer controlled Heller oven.
Actually, the oven is fine for what it is. The RoHS profile is just asking
too much from it.
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