Need a sound recorder, what should I get?

On Mar 12, 6:34 pm, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terr...@earthlink.net
wrote:
PeterD wrote:

So call the landlord, and let them deal with it. No recording is going
to be worth a hill of beans, because you have no indication of the
volume of the sound. A sound meter would work, but a recording is
worth exactly nothing.

A video & audio recording of the sound level meter would. One with a
valid time stamp, or small 'Atomic Clock' next to the sound level meter
would be even better.

--
Lead free solder is Belgium's version of 'Hold my beer and watch this!'

Good ideas.

Does the dBC spec follow sound pressure?

Or, does it follow the Fletcher-Munson Curve?

Robert Macy wrote:

On Mar 12, 6:34 pm, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terr...@earthlink.net
wrote:
PeterD wrote:

So call the landlord, and let them deal with it. No recording is going
to be worth a hill of beans, because you have no indication of the
volume of the sound. A sound meter would work, but a recording is
worth exactly nothing.

   A video & audio recording of the sound level meter would.  One with a
valid time stamp, or small 'Atomic Clock' next to the sound level meter
would be even better.

--
Lead free solder is Belgium's version of 'Hold my beer and watch this!'

Good ideas.

Does the dBC spec follow sound pressure?

Or, does it follow the Fletcher-Munson Curve?

   There is a little information here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C-weighting#C

--
Lead free solder is Belgium's version of 'Hold my beer and watch this!'

On Mar 12, 11:12 pm, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terr...@earthlink.net
wrote:
Robert Macy wrote:

On Mar 12, 6:34 pm, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terr...@earthlink.net
wrote:
PeterD wrote:

So call the landlord, and let them deal with it. No recording is going
to be worth a hill of beans, because you have no indication of the
volume of the sound. A sound meter would work, but a recording is
worth exactly nothing.

A video & audio recording of the sound level meter would. One with a
valid time stamp, or small 'Atomic Clock' next to the sound level meter
would be even better.

--
Lead free solder is Belgium's version of 'Hold my beer and watch this!'

Good ideas.

Does the dBC spec follow sound pressure?

Or, does it follow the Fletcher-Munson Curve?

There is a little information here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C-weighting#C

--
Lead free solder is Belgium's version of 'Hold my beer and watch this!'

Excellent site!

That verifies the C-weighted curve extends flat to lower frequencies.

Adrian Tuddenham wrote:

Robert Macy <m...@california.com> wrote:

On Mar 11, 1:38 am, adr...@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Adrian
Tuddenham) wrote:
Robert Macy <m...@california.com> wrote:
Need a sound recorder for recording noise intrusion from an adjacent
tenant.

Using Sony ICD-SX700 did not achieve very good results.

What should I use?

The recorder isn't as important as the microphone and the playback
loudspeaker.

Is the noise coming through in one place (e.g. hammer drilling or tap
dancing) or is it diffuse?  If it is diffuse, an omnidirectional mic
might work best.

If the noise is predominantly low frequency (e.g. boom box) a cheap
omnidirectional mic will generally have a better low frequency response
than a cheap cardioid.  The big problem you will have with L.F. noise is
demonstrating it realistically to someone, because loudspeakers are
rarely flat at such frequencies and the bass from headphones will depend
on their positioning on the listener's ears.

Investment in a cheap analogue sound level meter will help; then you can
calibrate the recording level and match the playback level to it when
you come to demonstrate the problem.  Use the dBC scale if the noise is
predominantly L.F.

Thank you for your reply.  Curious, why dBC, not dBA?

dBA was originally intended as an indicator of the potential of
industrial noise to cause hearing damage, it had deliberately reduced
sensitivity to low frequencies because they caused proportionately less
damage (and also to make an advantage out of the fact that the
microphone of the original sound meters was not very sensitive to bass
anyway).  The use of dBC will give you a level measuremement over the
normal hearing range.

The sounds are being transferred through above tenant's flooring and
then through our ceiling.  It is possible to tell origin, but it's
like a spotlight diffused onto a sheet of paper - you can tell where
it's coming from a little.

I like the idea of calibrating to verify the recorded sound
presentation recreates EXACTLY what was there, but may be difficult in
a large courtroom...

You can demonstrate the exact effect you have been suffering to any
official who comes to visit you, but a meter reading in dBC, coupled
with a log of the times it occurs, is often sufficient to convince them..
You wouldn't normally be expected to demonstrate it in a court.

Unless the noise is of some particularly irritating character or
requires specialist identification, you may not need to record it at
all.  The action you take will depend on three properties of the noise:

1)  Its loudness
2)  What time of day or night it occurs - and for how long
3)  Its annoyance factor (is it a hum, intermittent banging noises,
thudding bass, sounds of a murder, bagpipe practice?)

...only the third property might need a recording to demonstrate the
point you want to make.

Any recommendations for readily available sound level meters?  the
Sony has vu meters on it, but I think they're relative and not
absolute.

There used to be a simple SPL meter, with analogue readout, available
from Tandy / Radio Shack at a very reasonable price.  Its accuracy
wasn't certified, but mine was spot-on when I checked it against an
expensive calibrated meter.

   Harbor Freight has a similar sound level meter for $14.97 right now:

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=92282

   Here is the owner's manual:

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/manuals.taf?f=form&ItemID=92282

If you are contemplating legal action, you might have to get an 'expert'
to take legally-valid measurements for you.

--
Lead free solder is Belgium's version of 'Hold my beer and watch this!'

Tenant usual thumps (like dragging furniture, or kicking walls) = 60
to 64
Tenant made concussive sounds (like throwing weights on floor) = 66 to
70+, offscale

the morning of March 25, tenant made such sounds from 2:10am through
4:40am. You try and sleep with someone making noise of this level.

On Mar 11, 11:44 am, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terr...@earthlink.net
wrote:
Adrian Tuddenham wrote:

Robert Macy <m...@california.com> wrote:

On Mar 11, 1:38 am, adr...@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Adrian
Tuddenham) wrote:
Robert Macy <m...@california.com> wrote:
Need a sound recorder for recording noise intrusion from an adjacent
tenant.

Using Sony ICD-SX700 did not achieve very good results.

What should I use?

The recorder isn't as important as the microphone and the playback
loudspeaker.

Is the noise coming through in one place (e.g. hammer drilling or tap
dancing) or is it diffuse? If it is diffuse, an omnidirectional mic
might work best.

If the noise is predominantly low frequency (e.g. boom box) a cheap
omnidirectional mic will generally have a better low frequency response
than a cheap cardioid. The big problem you will have with L.F. noise is
demonstrating it realistically to someone, because loudspeakers are
rarely flat at such frequencies and the bass from headphones will depend
on their positioning on the listener's ears.

Investment in a cheap analogue sound level meter will help; then you can
calibrate the recording level and match the playback level to it when
you come to demonstrate the problem. Use the dBC scale if the noise is
predominantly L.F.

Thank you for your reply. Curious, why dBC, not dBA?

dBA was originally intended as an indicator of the potential of
industrial noise to cause hearing damage, it had deliberately reduced
sensitivity to low frequencies because they caused proportionately less
damage (and also to make an advantage out of the fact that the
microphone of the original sound meters was not very sensitive to bass
anyway). The use of dBC will give you a level measuremement over the
normal hearing range.

The sounds are being transferred through above tenant's flooring and
then through our ceiling. It is possible to tell origin, but it's
like a spotlight diffused onto a sheet of paper - you can tell where
it's coming from a little.

I like the idea of calibrating to verify the recorded sound
presentation recreates EXACTLY what was there, but may be difficult in
a large courtroom...

You can demonstrate the exact effect you have been suffering to any
official who comes to visit you, but a meter reading in dBC, coupled
with a log of the times it occurs, is often sufficient to convince them.
You wouldn't normally be expected to demonstrate it in a court.

Unless the noise is of some particularly irritating character or
requires specialist identification, you may not need to record it at
all. The action you take will depend on three properties of the noise:

1) Its loudness
2) What time of day or night it occurs - and for how long
3) Its annoyance factor (is it a hum, intermittent banging noises,
thudding bass, sounds of a murder, bagpipe practice?)

...only the third property might need a recording to demonstrate the
point you want to make.

Any recommendations for readily available sound level meters? the
Sony has vu meters on it, but I think they're relative and not
absolute.

There used to be a simple SPL meter, with analogue readout, available
from Tandy / Radio Shack at a very reasonable price. Its accuracy
wasn't certified, but mine was spot-on when I checked it against an
expensive calibrated meter.

Harbor Freight has a similar sound level meter for $14.97 right now:

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=92282

Here is the owner's manual:

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/manuals.taf?f=form&ItemID=92282

If you are contemplating legal action, you might have to get an 'expert'
to take legally-valid measurements for you.

--
Lead free solder is Belgium's version of 'Hold my beer and watch this!'

Thank you for this URL !!!

Received from Harbor Freight within 5 days of order. Nice product.

The output is from the microphone/preamp, and not meter display. If
it had been meter display, could have borrowed one of those chart
recorders with time of day, and marked which ones are from offending
tenant.

VERY INTERESTING meter peaking measurements:

TV, set at our normal listening level = 56
TV, set for poor sound films, a bit uncomfortable = 58
Conversation above TV = 60 to 62
Heavy diesel trucks outside = 62
Water faucet full output = 66
Bathroom exhaust fan = 68
Roaring motorcycle (also outside) = 68

Tenant usual thumps (like dragging furniture, or kicking walls) = 60
to 64
Tenant made concussive sounds (like throwing weights on floor) = 66 to
70+, offscale

the morning of March 25, tenant made such sounds from 2:10am through
4:40am. You try and sleep with someone making noise of this level.

So, thank you for this meter. It provides evidence supporting our
claim that these sounds are obtrusive and not just a subjective
impression, nor based upon a 'sensitivity' to sounds.

Robert Macy <m...@california.com> wrote:

[...]

Tenant usual thumps (like dragging furniture, or kicking walls) = 60
to 64
Tenant made concussive sounds (like throwing weights on floor) = 66 to
70+, offscale

the morning of March 25, tenant made such sounds from 2:10am through
4:40am.  You try and sleep with someone making noise of this level.

Hells bells!  Have you spoken to the other tenants about this?

Noise levels like that during the night must have woken most of the
immediate neighbours.

--
~ Adrian Tuddenham ~
(Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)www.poppyrecords.co.uk

On Mar 11, 11:44 am, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terr...@earthlink.net
wrote:
Adrian Tuddenham wrote:

Robert Macy <m...@california.com> wrote:

On Mar 11, 1:38 am, adr...@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Adrian
Tuddenham) wrote:
Robert Macy <m...@california.com> wrote:
Need a sound recorder for recording noise intrusion from an adjacent
tenant.

Using Sony ICD-SX700 did not achieve very good results.

What should I use?

The recorder isn't as important as the microphone and the playback
loudspeaker.

Is the noise coming through in one place (e.g. hammer drilling or tap
dancing) or is it diffuse? If it is diffuse, an omnidirectional mic
might work best.

If the noise is predominantly low frequency (e.g. boom box) a cheap
omnidirectional mic will generally have a better low frequency response
than a cheap cardioid. The big problem you will have with L.F. noise is
demonstrating it realistically to someone, because loudspeakers are
rarely flat at such frequencies and the bass from headphones will depend
on their positioning on the listener's ears.

Investment in a cheap analogue sound level meter will help; then you can
calibrate the recording level and match the playback level to it when
you come to demonstrate the problem. Use the dBC scale if the noise is
predominantly L.F.

Thank you for your reply. Curious, why dBC, not dBA?

dBA was originally intended as an indicator of the potential of
industrial noise to cause hearing damage, it had deliberately reduced
sensitivity to low frequencies because they caused proportionately less
damage (and also to make an advantage out of the fact that the
microphone of the original sound meters was not very sensitive to bass
anyway). The use of dBC will give you a level measuremement over the
normal hearing range.

The sounds are being transferred through above tenant's flooring and
then through our ceiling. It is possible to tell origin, but it's
like a spotlight diffused onto a sheet of paper - you can tell where
it's coming from a little.

I like the idea of calibrating to verify the recorded sound
presentation recreates EXACTLY what was there, but may be difficult in
a large courtroom...

You can demonstrate the exact effect you have been suffering to any
official who comes to visit you, but a meter reading in dBC, coupled
with a log of the times it occurs, is often sufficient to convince them.
You wouldn't normally be expected to demonstrate it in a court.

Unless the noise is of some particularly irritating character or
requires specialist identification, you may not need to record it at
all. The action you take will depend on three properties of the noise:

1) Its loudness
2) What time of day or night it occurs - and for how long
3) Its annoyance factor (is it a hum, intermittent banging noises,
thudding bass, sounds of a murder, bagpipe practice?)

...only the third property might need a recording to demonstrate the
point you want to make.

Any recommendations for readily available sound level meters? the
Sony has vu meters on it, but I think they're relative and not
absolute.

There used to be a simple SPL meter, with analogue readout, available
from Tandy / Radio Shack at a very reasonable price. Its accuracy
wasn't certified, but mine was spot-on when I checked it against an
expensive calibrated meter.

Harbor Freight has a similar sound level meter for $14.97 right now:

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=92282

Here is the owner's manual:

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/manuals.taf?f=form&ItemID=92282

If you are contemplating legal action, you might have to get an 'expert'
to take legally-valid measurements for you.

--
Lead free solder is Belgium's version of 'Hold my beer and watch this!'

ARRGGG

DISCONTINUED!!!

Adrian Tuddenham wrote:

Robert Macy <m...@california.com> wrote:

On Mar 11, 1:38 am, adr...@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Adrian
Tuddenham) wrote:
Robert Macy <m...@california.com> wrote:
Need a sound recorder for recording noise intrusion from an adjacent
tenant.

Using Sony ICD-SX700 did not achieve very good results.

What should I use?

The recorder isn't as important as the microphone and the playback
loudspeaker.

Is the noise coming through in one place (e.g. hammer drilling or tap
dancing) or is it diffuse?  If it is diffuse, an omnidirectional mic
might work best.

If the noise is predominantly low frequency (e.g. boom box) a cheap
omnidirectional mic will generally have a better low frequency response
than a cheap cardioid.  The big problem you will have with L.F. noise is
demonstrating it realistically to someone, because loudspeakers are
rarely flat at such frequencies and the bass from headphones will depend
on their positioning on the listener's ears.

Investment in a cheap analogue sound level meter will help; then you can
calibrate the recording level and match the playback level to it when
you come to demonstrate the problem.  Use the dBC scale if the noise is
predominantly L.F.

Thank you for your reply.  Curious, why dBC, not dBA?

dBA was originally intended as an indicator of the potential of
industrial noise to cause hearing damage, it had deliberately reduced
sensitivity to low frequencies because they caused proportionately less
damage (and also to make an advantage out of the fact that the
microphone of the original sound meters was not very sensitive to bass
anyway).  The use of dBC will give you a level measuremement over the
normal hearing range.

The sounds are being transferred through above tenant's flooring and
then through our ceiling.  It is possible to tell origin, but it's
like a spotlight diffused onto a sheet of paper - you can tell where
it's coming from a little.

I like the idea of calibrating to verify the recorded sound
presentation recreates EXACTLY what was there, but may be difficult in
a large courtroom...

You can demonstrate the exact effect you have been suffering to any
official who comes to visit you, but a meter reading in dBC, coupled
with a log of the times it occurs, is often sufficient to convince them..
You wouldn't normally be expected to demonstrate it in a court.

Unless the noise is of some particularly irritating character or
requires specialist identification, you may not need to record it at
all.  The action you take will depend on three properties of the noise:

1)  Its loudness
2)  What time of day or night it occurs - and for how long
3)  Its annoyance factor (is it a hum, intermittent banging noises,
thudding bass, sounds of a murder, bagpipe practice?)

...only the third property might need a recording to demonstrate the
point you want to make.

Any recommendations for readily available sound level meters?  the
Sony has vu meters on it, but I think they're relative and not
absolute.

There used to be a simple SPL meter, with analogue readout, available
from Tandy / Radio Shack at a very reasonable price.  Its accuracy
wasn't certified, but mine was spot-on when I checked it against an
expensive calibrated meter.

   Harbor Freight has a similar sound level meter for $14.97 right now:

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=92282

   Here is the owner's manual:

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/manuals.taf?f=form&ItemID=92282

If you are contemplating legal action, you might have to get an 'expert'
to take legally-valid measurements for you.

--
Lead free solder is Belgium's version of 'Hold my beer and watch this!'

Robert Macy wrote:

On Mar 11, 11:44 am, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terr...@earthlink.net
wrote:
Adrian Tuddenham wrote:

Robert Macy <m...@california.com> wrote:

On Mar 11, 1:38 am, adr...@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Adrian
Tuddenham) wrote:
Robert Macy <m...@california.com> wrote:
Need a sound recorder for recording noise intrusion from an adjacent
tenant.

Using Sony ICD-SX700 did not achieve very good results.

What should I use?

The recorder isn't as important as the microphone and the playback
loudspeaker.

Is the noise coming through in one place (e.g. hammer drilling or tap
dancing) or is it diffuse?  If it is diffuse, an omnidirectional mic
might work best.

If the noise is predominantly low frequency (e.g. boom box) a cheap
omnidirectional mic will generally have a better low frequency response
than a cheap cardioid.  The big problem you will have with L.F. noise is
demonstrating it realistically to someone, because loudspeakers are
rarely flat at such frequencies and the bass from headphones will depend
on their positioning on the listener's ears.

Investment in a cheap analogue sound level meter will help; then you can
calibrate the recording level and match the playback level to it when
you come to demonstrate the problem.  Use the dBC scale if the noise is
predominantly L.F.

Thank you for your reply.  Curious, why dBC, not dBA?

dBA was originally intended as an indicator of the potential of
industrial noise to cause hearing damage, it had deliberately reduced
sensitivity to low frequencies because they caused proportionately less
damage (and also to make an advantage out of the fact that the
microphone of the original sound meters was not very sensitive to bass
anyway).  The use of dBC will give you a level measuremement over the
normal hearing range.

The sounds are being transferred through above tenant's flooring and
then through our ceiling.  It is possible to tell origin, but it's
like a spotlight diffused onto a sheet of paper - you can tell where
it's coming from a little.

I like the idea of calibrating to verify the recorded sound
presentation recreates EXACTLY what was there, but may be difficult in
a large courtroom...

You can demonstrate the exact effect you have been suffering to any
official who comes to visit you, but a meter reading in dBC, coupled
with a log of the times it occurs, is often sufficient to convince them.
You wouldn't normally be expected to demonstrate it in a court.

Unless the noise is of some particularly irritating character or
requires specialist identification, you may not need to record it at
all.  The action you take will depend on three properties of the noise:

1)  Its loudness
2)  What time of day or night it occurs - and for how long
3)  Its annoyance factor (is it a hum, intermittent banging noises,
thudding bass, sounds of a murder, bagpipe practice?)

...only the third property might need a recording to demonstrate the
point you want to make.

Any recommendations for readily available sound level meters?  the
Sony has vu meters on it, but I think they're relative and not
absolute.

There used to be a simple SPL meter, with analogue readout, available
from Tandy / Radio Shack at a very reasonable price.  Its accuracy
wasn't certified, but mine was spot-on when I checked it against an
expensive calibrated meter.

   Harbor Freight has a similar sound level meter for $14.97 right now:

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=92282

   Here is the owner's manual:

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/manuals.taf?f=form&ItemID=92282

If you are contemplating legal action, you might have to get an 'expert'
to take legally-valid measurements for you.

--
Lead free solder is Belgium's version of 'Hold my beer and watch this!'

ARRGGG

DISCONTINUED!!!

It may just be out of stock. They pull a listing when something isn't
availible.  It has happened to me several times, then I walk into the
local store a few weeks or months later and they are back in stock.
Also, they change the stock number if they change suppliers.

--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

http://www.flickr.com/photos/materrell/

I'll check later. I was surprised at the $14+ price. I can't even
get boxes w battery compartments, let alone knobs, switches, panel
meters, etc for those kinds of prices.

But, everything from Cen-Tech looked extremely low priced, like
everything is discontinued.

Examples, laser level for $49, non-contact thermometers for $22 etc.