Need a sound recorder, what should I get?

"Sjouke Burry" <burrynulnulf...@ppllaanneett.nnll> wrote in message

news:4b984edd$0$14133$703f8584_at_textnews.kpn.nl...





William R. Walsh wrote:
Hi!

Why on earth would anyone recommend buying a last century Cassette
Deck, the  OP already has a digital recorder capable of 16 bit 44.1k
recordings, the same quality of CD.

Because it's cheap, easy and simple?

You don't need ultra-high-fidelity to capture a record of someone's
making a
disturbingly loud amount of sound. The cheap point is rendered moot by
the
presence of the more expensive recorder, yet the simplicity and still
massive installed base of playback equipment can't be argued. Plus, the
tape
recorder has the advantage in cost--if something happens to it, you
aren't
out a fortune!

William

Also for the purpose of the OP he is better off, using an old
recorder, because the new ones have the nasty habit of "equalizing"
the mic input.
As he needs a record of sound level, that is not a very good idea.

Rubbish.   Once his CD quality recording is made, with what he has at the
moment, it can then easily be transferred to a PC via USB into free editing
software like Audacity, where you can do all the equalising, level shifting,
noise reduction and analysis you like.   You can't do much of that with a
Cassette Player.

On Wed, 10 Mar 2010 11:46:53 -0800 (PST), Robert Macy

m...@california.com> wrote:
Need a sound recorder for recording noise intrusion from an adjacent
tenant.

Why? A recording would prove nothing. You need to measure sound
levels, not record the sounds. A sensitive microphone would pick up
the smallest of sounds so there would be no way to determine that the
neighbor's noise/sounds were a problem or not. As well, what does your
lease say on noise, and his? If it is not covered, prepair for a long
hard time.

Using Sony ICD-SX700 did not achieve very good results.

What should I use?

I'd use the threat of moving out at the end of my lease.

On Mar 11, 1:38 am, adr...@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Adrian
Tuddenham) wrote:
Robert Macy <m...@california.com> wrote:
Need a sound recorder for recording noise intrusion from an adjacent
tenant.

Using Sony ICD-SX700 did not achieve very good results.

What should I use?

The recorder isn't as important as the microphone and the playback
loudspeaker.  

Is the noise coming through in one place (e.g. hammer drilling or tap
dancing) or is it diffuse?  If it is diffuse, an omnidirectional mic
might work best.

If the noise is predominantly low frequency (e.g. boom box) a cheap
omnidirectional mic will generally have a better low frequency response
than a cheap cardioid.  The big problem you will have with L.F. noise is
demonstrating it realistically to someone, because loudspeakers are
rarely flat at such frequencies and the bass from headphones will depend
on their positioning on the listener's ears.

Investment in a cheap analogue sound level meter will help; then you can
calibrate the recording level and match the playback level to it when
you come to demonstrate the problem.  Use the dBC scale if the noise is
predominantly L.F.

Thank you for your reply. Curious, why dBC, not dBA?

The sounds are being transferred through above tenant's flooring and
then through our ceiling. It is possible to tell origin, but it's
like a spotlight diffused onto a sheet of paper - you can tell where
it's coming from a little.

I like the idea of calibrating to verify the recorded sound
presentation recreates EXACTLY what was there, but may be difficult in
a large courtroom...

Any recommendations for readily available sound level meters? the
Sony has vu meters on it, but I think they're relative and not
absolute.

This yet another example of a question that should have had a single
response, with the thread ending at that point.

You do not need a recorder, except perhaps to make a record of what is
disturbing you. You need to borrow a sound-level meter to measure how loud
the disturbance is. Otherwise, there is no good reason for the management to
believe you.

     ----- The Lady from Philadelphia

You can demonstrate the exact effect you have been suffering to any
official who comes to visit you, but a meter reading in dBC, coupled
with a log of the times it occurs, is often sufficient to convince them.
You wouldn't normally be expected to demonstrate it in a court.

Unless the noise is of some particularly irritating character or
requires specialist identification, you may not need to record it at
all. The action you take will depend on three properties of the noise:

1) Its loudness
2) What time of day or night it occurs - and for how long
3) Its annoyance factor (is it a hum, intermittent banging noises,
thudding bass, sounds of a murder, bagpipe practice?)

...only the third property might need a recording to demonstrate the
point you want to make.

Robert Macy <macy_at_california.com> wrote:

On Mar 11, 1:38 am, adr...@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Adrian
Tuddenham) wrote:
Robert Macy <m...@california.com> wrote:
Need a sound recorder for recording noise intrusion from an adjacent
tenant.

Using Sony ICD-SX700 did not achieve very good results.

What should I use?

The recorder isn't as important as the microphone and the playback
loudspeaker.

Is the noise coming through in one place (e.g. hammer drilling or tap
dancing) or is it diffuse? If it is diffuse, an omnidirectional mic
might work best.

If the noise is predominantly low frequency (e.g. boom box) a cheap
omnidirectional mic will generally have a better low frequency response
than a cheap cardioid. The big problem you will have with L.F. noise is
demonstrating it realistically to someone, because loudspeakers are
rarely flat at such frequencies and the bass from headphones will depend
on their positioning on the listener's ears.

Investment in a cheap analogue sound level meter will help; then you can
calibrate the recording level and match the playback level to it when
you come to demonstrate the problem. Use the dBC scale if the noise is
predominantly L.F.


Thank you for your reply. Curious, why dBC, not dBA?

dBA was originally intended as an indicator of the potential of
industrial noise to cause hearing damage, it had deliberately reduced
sensitivity to low frequencies because they caused proportionately less
damage (and also to make an advantage out of the fact that the
microphone of the original sound meters was not very sensitive to bass
anyway). The use of dBC will give you a level measuremement over the
normal hearing range.

The sounds are being transferred through above tenant's flooring and
then through our ceiling. It is possible to tell origin, but it's
like a spotlight diffused onto a sheet of paper - you can tell where
it's coming from a little.

I like the idea of calibrating to verify the recorded sound
presentation recreates EXACTLY what was there, but may be difficult in
a large courtroom...

You can demonstrate the exact effect you have been suffering to any
official who comes to visit you, but a meter reading in dBC, coupled
with a log of the times it occurs, is often sufficient to convince them.
You wouldn't normally be expected to demonstrate it in a court.

Unless the noise is of some particularly irritating character or
requires specialist identification, you may not need to record it at
all. The action you take will depend on three properties of the noise:

1) Its loudness
2) What time of day or night it occurs - and for how long
3) Its annoyance factor (is it a hum, intermittent banging noises,
thudding bass, sounds of a murder, bagpipe practice?)

...only the third property might need a recording to demonstrate the
point you want to make.


Any recommendations for readily available sound level meters? the
Sony has vu meters on it, but I think they're relative and not
absolute.

There used to be a simple SPL meter, with analogue readout, available
from Tandy / Radio Shack at a very reasonable price. Its accuracy
wasn't certified, but mine was spot-on when I checked it against an
expensive calibrated meter.

If you are contemplating legal action, you might have to get an 'expert'
to take legally-valid measurements for you.

On Mar 11, 10:44 am, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terr...@earthlink.net
wrote:
Adrian Tuddenham wrote:

Robert Macy <m...@california.com> wrote:

On Mar 11, 1:38 am, adr...@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Adrian
Tuddenham) wrote:
Robert Macy <m...@california.com> wrote:
Need a sound recorder for recording noise intrusion from an adjacent
tenant.

Using Sony ICD-SX700 did not achieve very good results.

What should I use?

The recorder isn't as important as the microphone and the playback
loudspeaker.

Is the noise coming through in one place (e.g. hammer drilling or tap
dancing) or is it diffuse? If it is diffuse, an omnidirectional mic
might work best.

If the noise is predominantly low frequency (e.g. boom box) a cheap
omnidirectional mic will generally have a better low frequency response
than a cheap cardioid. The big problem you will have with L.F. noise is
demonstrating it realistically to someone, because loudspeakers are
rarely flat at such frequencies and the bass from headphones will depend
on their positioning on the listener's ears.

Investment in a cheap analogue sound level meter will help; then you can
calibrate the recording level and match the playback level to it when
you come to demonstrate the problem. Use the dBC scale if the noise is
predominantly L.F.

Thank you for your reply. Curious, why dBC, not dBA?

dBA was originally intended as an indicator of the potential of
industrial noise to cause hearing damage, it had deliberately reduced
sensitivity to low frequencies because they caused proportionately less
damage (and also to make an advantage out of the fact that the
microphone of the original sound meters was not very sensitive to bass
anyway). The use of dBC will give you a level measuremement over the
normal hearing range.

The sounds are being transferred through above tenant's flooring and
then through our ceiling. It is possible to tell origin, but it's
like a spotlight diffused onto a sheet of paper - you can tell where
it's coming from a little.

I like the idea of calibrating to verify the recorded sound
presentation recreates EXACTLY what was there, but may be difficult in
a large courtroom...

You can demonstrate the exact effect you have been suffering to any
official who comes to visit you, but a meter reading in dBC, coupled
with a log of the times it occurs, is often sufficient to convince them.
You wouldn't normally be expected to demonstrate it in a court.

Unless the noise is of some particularly irritating character or
requires specialist identification, you may not need to record it at
all. The action you take will depend on three properties of the noise:

1) Its loudness
2) What time of day or night it occurs - and for how long
3) Its annoyance factor (is it a hum, intermittent banging noises,
thudding bass, sounds of a murder, bagpipe practice?)

...only the third property might need a recording to demonstrate the
point you want to make.

Any recommendations for readily available sound level meters? the
Sony has vu meters on it, but I think they're relative and not
absolute.

There used to be a simple SPL meter, with analogue readout, available
from Tandy / Radio Shack at a very reasonable price. Its accuracy
wasn't certified, but mine was spot-on when I checked it against an
expensive calibrated meter.

Harbor Freight has a similar sound level meter for $14.97 right now:

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=92282

Here is the owner's manual:

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/manuals.taf?f=form&ItemID=92282

If you are contemplating legal action, you might have to get an 'expert'
to take legally-valid measurements for you.

--
Lead free solder is Belgium's version of 'Hold my beer and watch this!'

Thank you for the URLs.

I wonder if what doesn't record is loud enough to activate it.

Robert Macy <m...@california.com> wrote:
On Mar 11, 1:38 am, adr...@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Adrian
Tuddenham) wrote:
Robert Macy <m...@california.com> wrote:
Need a sound recorder for recording noise intrusion from an adjacent
tenant.

Using Sony ICD-SX700 did not achieve very good results.

What should I use?

The recorder isn't as important as the microphone and the playback
loudspeaker.  

Is the noise coming through in one place (e.g. hammer drilling or tap
dancing) or is it diffuse?  If it is diffuse, an omnidirectional mic
might work best.

If the noise is predominantly low frequency (e.g. boom box) a cheap
omnidirectional mic will generally have a better low frequency response
than a cheap cardioid.  The big problem you will have with L.F. noise is
demonstrating it realistically to someone, because loudspeakers are
rarely flat at such frequencies and the bass from headphones will depend
on their positioning on the listener's ears.

Investment in a cheap analogue sound level meter will help; then you can
calibrate the recording level and match the playback level to it when
you come to demonstrate the problem.  Use the dBC scale if the noise is
predominantly L.F.

Thank you for your reply.  Curious, why dBC, not dBA?

dBA was originally intended as an indicator of the potential of
industrial noise to cause hearing damage, it had deliberately reduced
sensitivity to low frequencies because they caused proportionately less
damage (and also to make an advantage out of the fact that the
microphone of the original sound meters was not very sensitive to bass
anyway).  The use of dBC will give you a level measuremement over the
normal hearing range.

The sounds are being transferred through above tenant's flooring and
then through our ceiling.  It is possible to tell origin, but it's
like a spotlight diffused onto a sheet of paper - you can tell where
it's coming from a little.

I like the idea of calibrating to verify the recorded sound
presentation recreates EXACTLY what was there, but may be difficult in
a large courtroom...

You can demonstrate the exact effect you have been suffering to any
official who comes to visit you, but a meter reading in dBC, coupled
with a log of the times it occurs, is often sufficient to convince them.
You wouldn't normally be expected to demonstrate it in a court.

Unless the noise is of some particularly irritating character or
requires specialist identification, you may not need to record it at
all.  The action you take will depend on three properties of the noise:

1)  Its loudness
2)  What time of day or night it occurs - and for how long
3)  Its annoyance factor (is it a hum, intermittent banging noises,
thudding bass, sounds of a murder, bagpipe practice?)

...only the third property might need a recording to demonstrate the
point you want to make.



Any recommendations for readily available sound level meters?  the
Sony has vu meters on it, but I think they're relative and not
absolute.

There used to be a simple SPL meter, with analogue readout, available
from Tandy / Radio Shack at a very reasonable price.  Its accuracy
wasn't certified, but mine was spot-on when I checked it against an
expensive calibrated meter.

If you are contemplating legal action, you might have to get an 'expert'
to take legally-valid measurements for you.

--
~ Adrian Tuddenham ~
(Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)www.poppyrecords.co.uk

Adrian Tuddenham wrote:

Robert Macy <m...@california.com> wrote:

On Mar 11, 1:38 am, adr...@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Adrian
Tuddenham) wrote:
Robert Macy <m...@california.com> wrote:
Need a sound recorder for recording noise intrusion from an adjacent
tenant.

Using Sony ICD-SX700 did not achieve very good results.

What should I use?

The recorder isn't as important as the microphone and the playback
loudspeaker.

Is the noise coming through in one place (e.g. hammer drilling or tap
dancing) or is it diffuse?  If it is diffuse, an omnidirectional mic
might work best.

If the noise is predominantly low frequency (e.g. boom box) a cheap
omnidirectional mic will generally have a better low frequency response
than a cheap cardioid.  The big problem you will have with L.F. noise is
demonstrating it realistically to someone, because loudspeakers are
rarely flat at such frequencies and the bass from headphones will depend
on their positioning on the listener's ears.

Investment in a cheap analogue sound level meter will help; then you can
calibrate the recording level and match the playback level to it when
you come to demonstrate the problem.  Use the dBC scale if the noise is
predominantly L.F.

Thank you for your reply.  Curious, why dBC, not dBA?

dBA was originally intended as an indicator of the potential of
industrial noise to cause hearing damage, it had deliberately reduced
sensitivity to low frequencies because they caused proportionately less
damage (and also to make an advantage out of the fact that the
microphone of the original sound meters was not very sensitive to bass
anyway).  The use of dBC will give you a level measuremement over the
normal hearing range.

The sounds are being transferred through above tenant's flooring and
then through our ceiling.  It is possible to tell origin, but it's
like a spotlight diffused onto a sheet of paper - you can tell where
it's coming from a little.

I like the idea of calibrating to verify the recorded sound
presentation recreates EXACTLY what was there, but may be difficult in
a large courtroom...

You can demonstrate the exact effect you have been suffering to any
official who comes to visit you, but a meter reading in dBC, coupled
with a log of the times it occurs, is often sufficient to convince them..
You wouldn't normally be expected to demonstrate it in a court.

Unless the noise is of some particularly irritating character or
requires specialist identification, you may not need to record it at
all.  The action you take will depend on three properties of the noise:

1)  Its loudness
2)  What time of day or night it occurs - and for how long
3)  Its annoyance factor (is it a hum, intermittent banging noises,
thudding bass, sounds of a murder, bagpipe practice?)

...only the third property might need a recording to demonstrate the
point you want to make.

Any recommendations for readily available sound level meters?  the
Sony has vu meters on it, but I think they're relative and not
absolute.

There used to be a simple SPL meter, with analogue readout, available
from Tandy / Radio Shack at a very reasonable price.  Its accuracy
wasn't certified, but mine was spot-on when I checked it against an
expensive calibrated meter.

   Harbor Freight has a similar sound level meter for $14.97 right now:

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=92282

   Here is the owner's manual:

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/manuals.taf?f=form&ItemID=92282

If you are contemplating legal action, you might have to get an 'expert'
to take legally-valid measurements for you.

--
Lead free solder is Belgium's version of 'Hold my beer and watch this!'

Lease says "no tenant can operate a TV, Musical Device, of Computer
Sound System in a manner that disturbs another tenant"  no hours of
operation, no arbitrary interpretation.  That's why we moved in.

I'm a firm believer in victims should not take action, perpetrators
should.

if our landlord cannot, or will not, provide quiet enjoyment, no
waiting for end of lease, they have failed, and now must pay for move
and all costs.

Need a sound recorder for recording noise intrusion from an adjacent
tenant.

Using Sony ICD-SX700 did not achieve very good results.

What should I use?

On Mar 11, 5:08 am, PeterD <pet...@hipson.net> wrote:
On Wed, 10 Mar 2010 11:46:53 -0800 (PST), Robert Macy

m...@california.com> wrote:
Need a sound recorder for recording noise intrusion from an adjacent
tenant.

Why? A recording would prove nothing. You need to measure sound
levels, not record the sounds. A sensitive microphone would pick up
the smallest of sounds so there would be no way to determine that the
neighbor's noise/sounds were a problem or not. As well, what does your
lease say on noise, and his? If it is not covered, prepair for a long
hard time.

Using Sony ICD-SX700 did not achieve very good results.

What should I use?

I'd use the threat of moving out at the end of my lease.

We have our TV on while this is going on, that makes a great reference
and/or talking and living normally as a comparison.

Lease says "no tenant can operate a TV, Musical Device, of Computer
Sound System in a manner that disturbs another tenant" no hours of
operation, no arbitrary interpretation. That's why we moved in.

I'm a firm believer in victims should not take action, perpetrators
should.

if our landlord cannot, or will not, provide quiet enjoyment, no
waiting for end of lease, they have failed, and now must pay for move
and all costs.

On 11 mar, 17:33, Robert Macy <m...@california.com> wrote:

Lease says "no tenant can operate a TV, Musical Device, of Computer
Sound System in a manner that disturbs another tenant"  no hours of
operation, no arbitrary interpretation.  That's why we moved in.

I'm a firm believer in victims should not take action, perpetrators
should.

if our landlord cannot, or will not, provide quiet enjoyment, no
waiting for end of lease, they have failed, and now must pay for move
and all costs.

This all sounds a bit hasty to me. Have you actually tried
 a) talking to those making the noise, who may not for all you know ,
be fully aware of the nuisance they cause, and b) talking to the
landlord about it?
If so, what was their response(s)?
usually these things can be settled with quiet but firm words in the
right ear, rather than jumping to collecting 'evidence' and  geting
into legal action.
Just my .02 worth

-B

So call the landlord, and let them deal with it. No recording is going
to be worth a hill of beans, because you have no indication of the
volume of the sound. A sound meter would work, but a recording is
worth exactly nothing.

PeterD wrote:

So call the landlord, and let them deal with it. No recording is going
to be worth a hill of beans, because you have no indication of the
volume of the sound. A sound meter would work, but a recording is
worth exactly nothing.

   A video & audio recording of the sound level meter would.  One with a
valid time stamp, or small 'Atomic Clock' next to the sound level meter
would be even better.

--
Lead free solder is Belgium's version of 'Hold my beer and watch this!'