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nospam
Guest

Fri Dec 28, 2018 4:45 pm   



In article <q056c2$rsc$1_at_dont-email.me>, sms
<scharf.steven_at_geemail.com> wrote:

Quote:
Understood, but for a paid app, that is extremely popular, with
1,000,00 installs and >55,000 reviews, you'd think that the pain might
be worth it for the author.


nope. if it's only one person, his hands are full with that one app.

developing for and supporting two different platforms is a lot more
work than just one and it's hard to do both well.

Quote:
Especially because you often see people
asking "is there an equivalent app to Torque Pro for the iPhone?"


nope, but for those that do ask, the answer is overwhelmingly 'yes'.

Quote:
Even
prior to BLE, there were Wi-Fi OBD-II dongles being used with OBD-II iOS
apps (which were a pain because you could only have one Wi-Fi connection
at a time from a phone, but still usable for diagnostics, just not
continuous monitoring).


false. it works quite well for continuous monitoring, but the main
intent of a wifi dongle was for laptop use.

Quote:
Developing for BLE is more difficult than using
Bluetooth SPP, but not magnitudes more difficult.


nonsense. developing for bluetooth le is *significantly* easier for a
number reasons. i've done both. you have not.

stop making up shit.

rbowman
Guest

Sat Dec 29, 2018 3:45 am   



On 12/28/2018 08:42 AM, nospam wrote:
Quote:
you're asking the wrong people. there's a *huge* demand for apple
development and it pays *quite* well.


I'm sure it does if you're in the right field, but the world I live in
doesn't do Apple. If we do something for iPhones it is only as
peripherals. There may be emergency dispatch centers that run on os x
but I don't know of any. Generally the RFQ's spec Windows Server, SQL
Server, ESRI, and so forth. Even ESRI is a killer; ArcDesktop can run on
a Mac -- sort of. Fire up Boot Camp or VMWare and run Windows.

I did work on one project that used Macs although I was not involved in
that part. The early Mac that was a cube was the only thing that could
meet TEMPEST requirements.

I'm sure you will reel of all sorts of counter examples but I've always
associated Apple with consumer oriented devices and software and that's
not been my meal ticket.

rbowman
Guest

Sat Dec 29, 2018 3:45 am   



On 12/28/2018 08:42 AM, nospam wrote:
Quote:
not at all. write a decent app and you'll recover any costs many times
over. there's nothing to deal with the app store either. when the app
is done, submit it.


Therein lies the rub in our business model. We're doing proprietary
applications for a very limited audience and the app store is not the
way to go.


Quote:

xcode is free and pick up a cheap iphone for testing. done. and if
you're *that* cheap (and not interested in quality of work), use the
simulator and let your beta testers test on actual hardware.


Ah, yes, the simulator... Snore...

Quote:
I just bought a 7" B&N Nook for $50. It's no
powerhouse but it's acceptable. Apple might be trimming prices a bit but
they're not there yet.
a b&n nook is in no way comparable to an iphone or ipad.


I never said it was. However it is an Android device that I can side
load an apk on.

nospam
Guest

Sat Dec 29, 2018 4:45 am   



In article <g8o45vForqhU1_at_mid.individual.net>, rbowman
<bowman_at_montana.com> wrote:

Quote:
not at all. write a decent app and you'll recover any costs many times
over. there's nothing to deal with the app store either. when the app
is done, submit it.

Therein lies the rub in our business model. We're doing proprietary
applications for a very limited audience and the app store is not the
way to go.


you didn't mention proprietary apps, however, there are alternative
methods for app deployment that do *not* involve the app store at all
for exactly that scenario. the app store is not the only option.

Quote:
xcode is free and pick up a cheap iphone for testing. done. and if
you're *that* cheap (and not interested in quality of work), use the
simulator and let your beta testers test on actual hardware.

Ah, yes, the simulator... Snore...


you've never used it, so you're not in a position to comment.

it was simply a suggestion for those who *really* want to cheap out.

Quote:
I just bought a 7" B&N Nook for $50. It's no
powerhouse but it's acceptable. Apple might be trimming prices a bit but
they're not there yet.
a b&n nook is in no way comparable to an iphone or ipad.

I never said it was.


yet you compared its price to an iphone or ipad.

the reason it's $50 is because its specs are lower.

Quote:
However it is an Android device that I can side
load an apk on.


that would depend on what the apk does. if it needs functionality not
found in a $50 device, you're going to have problems.

nospam
Guest

Sat Dec 29, 2018 4:45 am   



In article <g8o3ouFopeqU1_at_mid.individual.net>, rbowman
<bowman_at_montana.com> wrote:

Quote:

I did work on one project that used Macs although I was not involved in
that part. The early Mac that was a cube was the only thing that could
meet TEMPEST requirements.


the cube was a *long* time ago.

Quote:
I'm sure you will reel of all sorts of counter examples but I've always
associated Apple with consumer oriented devices and software and that's
not been my meal ticket.


there's nothing wrong with focusing on consumer products. it's a *huge*
and *very* lucrative market, although apple is not solely consumer
focused.

rbowman
Guest

Sat Dec 29, 2018 9:45 pm   



On 12/28/2018 08:43 PM, nospam wrote:
Quote:
In article <g8o3ouFopeqU1_at_mid.individual.net>, rbowman
bowman_at_montana.com> wrote:


I did work on one project that used Macs although I was not involved in
that part. The early Mac that was a cube was the only thing that could
meet TEMPEST requirements.

the cube was a *long* time ago.


Yes, it was. 1985, iirc. My end of the project involved the TI TMS9900
microprocessor. It had little going for it other than being one of the
few radiation hardened devices at the time. The Macs were used for
documentation and as I said were selected because they meant TEMPEST
specifications.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tempest_%28codename%29

The Russkies were squatting out in the bushes, dontcha know. It's always
the Russians. I doubt if they bothered to skulk around our bushes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1985:_The_Year_of_the_Spy

Quote:
there's nothing wrong with focusing on consumer products. it's a *huge*
and *very* lucrative market, although apple is not solely consumer
focused.


Certainly there's nothing wrong with consumer products. I've never
worked in that sector, and hence have never been involved with Apple
products. iPhones and iPads have started making some inroads as
information delivery devices in my world. However the focus has been
more on ruggedized devices, be they laptops or tablets.

https://www.fieldtechnologiesonline.com/doc/the-ipad-vs-the-rugged-tablet-whats-what-0001

That is not a market Apple addresses and being a walled garden no third
party can do so. End of the World Industries can make an Android tablet
that will survive, but it better not start with 'i'.

That said, personal devices are penetrating the workspace and if some
cop prefers to use an iPhone we've got to deal with it. Sometime. It
won't be me personally.

nospam
Guest

Sat Dec 29, 2018 11:45 pm   



In article <g8q2c0F78d6U1_at_mid.individual.net>, rbowman
<bowman_at_montana.com> wrote:

Quote:

I did work on one project that used Macs although I was not involved in
that part. The early Mac that was a cube was the only thing that could
meet TEMPEST requirements.

the cube was a *long* time ago.

Yes, it was. 1985, iirc.


no it wasn't.

the cube was 2000-2001:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_Mac_G4_Cube>

it was a tip of the hat to steve jobs' original next cube, which was
announced in 1989 and shipped in 1990:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NeXTcube>

in 1985, only the mac 128k and 512k existed, with the 512k/e in late
1985. the mac plus was released in january, 1986.

Quote:
My end of the project involved the TI TMS9900
microprocessor. It had little going for it other than being one of the
few radiation hardened devices at the time. The Macs were used for
documentation and as I said were selected because they meant TEMPEST
specifications.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tempest_%28codename%29

The Russkies were squatting out in the bushes, dontcha know. It's always
the Russians. I doubt if they bothered to skulk around our bushes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1985:_The_Year_of_the_Spy

there's nothing wrong with focusing on consumer products. it's a *huge*
and *very* lucrative market, although apple is not solely consumer
focused.

Certainly there's nothing wrong with consumer products. I've never
worked in that sector, and hence have never been involved with Apple
products.


apple does more than just consumer, although that is definitely where
they're strongest.

Quote:
iPhones and iPads have started making some inroads as
information delivery devices in my world. However the focus has been
more on ruggedized devices, be they laptops or tablets.


there's more to an iphone and ipad than information delivery.

Quote:
https://www.fieldtechnologiesonline.com/doc/the-ipad-vs-the-rugged-tablet-what
s-what-0001

That is not a market Apple addresses and being a walled garden no third
party can do so. End of the World Industries can make an Android tablet
that will survive, but it better not start with 'i'.


nonsense.

there are numerous ruggedized cases for iphones and ipads, with
otterbox being the most well known. they're bulky, but they do
withstand a *lot* of abuse. there is also no walled garden, a myth that
will never die.

here's one with a keyboard:
<https://www.zagg.com/eu/en_eu/keyboards/rugged-book-keyboard-case>

here's a screen protector that withstands hammering:
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hsxl1bRTldo>
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtMn79-hr9E>

and there's even a bulletproof case:
<http://www.marudai-corp.com/iphone-case/e-info-product.html>

Quote:
That said, personal devices are penetrating the workspace and if some
cop prefers to use an iPhone we've got to deal with it. Sometime. It
won't be me personally.


your loss.

rbowman
Guest

Sun Dec 30, 2018 12:45 am   



On 12/29/2018 03:06 PM, nospam wrote:
Quote:
In article <g8q2c0F78d6U1_at_mid.individual.net>, rbowman
bowman_at_montana.com> wrote:


I did work on one project that used Macs although I was not involved in
that part. The early Mac that was a cube was the only thing that could
meet TEMPEST requirements.

the cube was a *long* time ago.

Yes, it was. 1985, iirc.

no it wasn't.

the cube was 2000-2001:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_Mac_G4_Cube


Excuse me. Not being an Apple user I'm not familiar with the pet terms.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macintosh_128K

To my eyes it looked like a cube.

Quote:
in 1985, only the mac 128k and 512k existed, with the 512k/e in late
1985. the mac plus was released in january, 1986.


Precisely. The rather cubical looking Mac...

> there's more to an iphone and ipad than information delivery.

Yes there is. However all we are concerned with is delivering updated
incident or dispatch information to emergency responders. If they want
to play Angry Birds in their spare time, good for them.


Quote:
https://www.fieldtechnologiesonline.com/doc/the-ipad-vs-the-rugged-tablet-what
s-what-0001

there are numerous ruggedized cases for iphones and ipads, with
otterbox being the most well known. they're bulky, but they do
withstand a *lot* of abuse. there is also no walled garden, a myth that
will never die.


Obviously you didn't read the link. An iPad in an otterbox is NOT a
ruggedized tablet.

https://gizmodo.com/should-the-supreme-court-knock-the-first-brick-out-of-a-1830569176

You're right. The walled garden is the myth that will never die. The
strategy has worked well for Apple so don't try to deny it.

> your loss.

Not in the least.

nospam
Guest

Sun Dec 30, 2018 6:45 am   



In article <g8qc7aF9aqpU1_at_mid.individual.net>, rbowman
<bowman_at_montana.com> wrote:

Quote:
I did work on one project that used Macs although I was not involved in
that part. The early Mac that was a cube was the only thing that could
meet TEMPEST requirements.

the cube was a *long* time ago.

Yes, it was. 1985, iirc.

no it wasn't.

the cube was 2000-2001:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_Mac_G4_Cube

Excuse me. Not being an Apple user I'm not familiar with the pet terms.


it's not a pet term. it was called a cube because it was actually a
cube.

it did have an acrylic casing to raise it off the table for cable
management, however.

it was also designed to *easily* be opened without any tools. flip it
over, push in the handle to pop it out, then lift, giving full access
to the internals, the very opposite of a 'walled garden'.

<https://d3nevzfk7ii3be.cloudfront.net/igi/Pw6YRIHwmiDYUWTX.large>
<https://d3nevzfk7ii3be.cloudfront.net/igi/2STkBEy42mB2okjN.large>
<https://d3nevzfk7ii3be.cloudfront.net/igi/AuJkNVuB3RH4NjKl.large>

Quote:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macintosh_128K

To my eyes it looked like a cube.


then your eyes need to be checked, along with a refresher on geometry.

Quote:
in 1985, only the mac 128k and 512k existed, with the 512k/e in late
1985. the mac plus was released in january, 1986.

Precisely. The rather cubical looking Mac...


it did not look like a cube:
<http://photos2.insidercdn.com/1125-128kmac-2.jpg>

Quote:
there's more to an iphone and ipad than information delivery.

Yes there is. However all we are concerned with is delivering updated
incident or dispatch information to emergency responders. If they want
to play Angry Birds in their spare time, good for them.


angry birds is passe. even pokemon go is mostly passe. fortnite is
where it's at now.

Quote:
https://www.fieldtechnologiesonline.com/doc/the-ipad-vs-the-rugged-tablet-w
hats-what-0001

there are numerous ruggedized cases for iphones and ipads, with
otterbox being the most well known. they're bulky, but they do
withstand a *lot* of abuse. there is also no walled garden, a myth that
will never die.

Obviously you didn't read the link.


i did and it's bullshit.

rugged means able to withstand extreme conditions and abuse.

rugged does *not* mean encryption, tco and compatibility, what the
article discusses.

all ios devices are fully encrypted, can be remote wiped if necessary
and centrally managed for large (or not so large) deployment, so that
is not an issue.

the article speculates that an ipad would overall cost more despite
having a lower initial cost due to frequent failures, however, they
offer with zero evidence to support that. it also incorrectly assumes
that by the time an app is released, a newer incompatible ipad would be
released, which is also wrong.

the article was surprised that american airlines would choose ipads for
the cockpit, something other airlines have also done since the article
was written, due to their reliability and lower cost versus managing
the paper it replaces. that alone contradicts the article's claims.

it's also a 6 year old article which is even more incorrect now than it
was when written.

Quote:
An iPad in an otterbox is NOT a
ruggedized tablet.


yes it is. rugged means it's able to withstand extremes and abuse,
which is already pretty good but with an otterbox even more so.

it does not mean encryption, tco or app compatibility.

Quote:
https://gizmodo.com/should-the-supreme-court-knock-the-first-brick-out-of-a-18
30569176

You're right. The walled garden is the myth that will never die. The
strategy has worked well for Apple so don't try to deny it.


that's not a walled garden, especially since the app store not the only
way to install apps.

nothing prevents anyone from writing their own custom ios apps for
whatever purpose or hiring someone to do so if they lack the skills.

there is no requirement to use the app store (which i explained in
another post). there are a *lot* of custom corporate apps on ios that
never see the app store.

and let's not forget windows 10s, which *only* runs apps from the
microsoft app store, making *it* the walled garden, not apple.

game consoles also have very limited options for titles, also walled.

having an app store with vetted apps is not inherently bad. it greatly
reduces the amount of malware and other crap that people install,
rending a system unstable and/or not secure.

the malware vectors where one can pwn a windows system do not exist on
ios.

nothing is perfect and something could potentially slip through the
cracks, but if it does, it's quickly removed from the store. in extreme
cases, it can be uninstalled, something google has had to do on several
occasions, while apple has not.

in other words, ios software is 'rugged'.

sms
Guest

Mon Dec 31, 2018 9:45 am   



On 12/28/2018 7:22 AM, rbowman wrote:

Quote:
Maybe, if a million iPhone users were asking for it...  Buying the Apple
hardware to develop on, learning the new toolchain, and dealing with the
Apple store puts a little bump in the road. For Android you download
Android Studio to your Windows box, pick up a cheap Android device, and
you're good to go. I just bought a 7" B&N Nook for $50. It's no
powerhouse but it's acceptable. Apple might be trimming prices a bit but
they're not there yet.


True, it's much more efficient to develop specialized, non-consumer
apps, on Android, as well as being easier to deploy them. Apple is
solely consumer-electronics focused, with little interest in supporting
niche markets.

There are other advantages to developing for Android as well, including
much more complete support for industry standards like Bluetooth and
NMEA. I don't think that the cost of buying a Mac, when developing an
iOS app, is really an issue. You can just buy a used Mac Mini for a
couple of hundred dollars. But deploying an iOS app to a niche market is
more of an issue.

nospam
Guest

Mon Dec 31, 2018 9:45 am   



In article <q0ci0c$agp$1_at_dont-email.me>, sms
<scharf.steven_at_geemail.com> wrote:

Quote:

Maybe, if a million iPhone users were asking for it...† Buying the Apple
hardware to develop on, learning the new toolchain, and dealing with the
Apple store puts a little bump in the road. For Android you download
Android Studio to your Windows box, pick up a cheap Android device, and
you're good to go. I just bought a 7" B&N Nook for $50. It's no
powerhouse but it's acceptable. Apple might be trimming prices a bit but
they're not there yet.

True, it's much more efficient to develop specialized, non-consumer
apps, on Android, as well as being easier to deploy them. Apple is
solely consumer-electronics focused, with little interest in supporting
niche markets.


completely false.

developing and deploying for ios is a lot easier than android,
regardless of what type of app it is, largely because of the zillions
of devices needed to support and test, and apple is *not* solely
consumer focused in the least.

Quote:
There are other advantages to developing for Android as well, including
much more complete support for industry standards like Bluetooth and
NMEA.


more bs. apple was first to support bluetooth le on a mobile device.

Quote:
I don't think that the cost of buying a Mac, when developing an
iOS app, is really an issue. You can just buy a used Mac Mini for a
couple of hundred dollars. But deploying an iOS app to a niche market is
more of an issue.


nonsense. niche markets can be very lucrative, and because of that can
easily justify much more than a used mac for development.

rbowman
Guest

Mon Dec 31, 2018 7:45 pm   



On 12/31/2018 01:18 AM, nospam wrote:
Quote:
developing and deploying for ios is a lot easier than android,
regardless of what type of app it is, largely because of the zillions
of devices needed to support and test, and apple is *not* solely
consumer focused in the least.


https://www.technewsworld.com/story/21320.html

How's that Xserve doing? Oh, I forgot. It was discontinued in 2011 to be
replaced by Mac Pro Server. How's that one going? Oops, it lasted two years.

You keep saying Apple is not solely consumer focused. So where has it
penetrated enterprise level solutions?

nospam
Guest

Mon Dec 31, 2018 8:45 pm   



In article <g8v4lqFa9chU1_at_mid.individual.net>, rbowman
<bowman_at_montana.com> wrote:

Quote:
You keep saying Apple is not solely consumer focused. So where has it
penetrated enterprise level solutions?


pretty much everywhere. take off your blinders and look around.

<https://blog.code42.com/the-growth-of-macs-in-the-enterprise-is-challen
ging-the-pcs-dominance/>
The PC has long been the default choice for business computers, but
perhaps not for much longer. The growth of Macs in the enterprise has
been exponential in recent years, as illustrated by the infographic
below.
....
Simpler IT support for Macs and a high level of user self-service
drive the bulk of this cost savings. IBM reports that just 3.5
percent of its Mac users currently call the help desk, compared to 25
percent of its PC users. Media company Buzzfeed maintains only a
small IT staff for its thousands of employees≠only 30-35 employees
use Windows machines, while the rest operate on Macs

infographic:
<https://blog.code42.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/Growth-of-Macs-in-th
e-Enterprise.png>


ibm, of all companies, has what is likely the largest mac deployment,
with *half* of their employees having macs:
<https://www.businessinsider.com/an-ibm-it-guy-macs-are-300-cheaper-to-o
wn-than-windows-2016-10>
At that time, some 30,000 IBM employees were using Macs. Today 90,000
of them are, he said. And IBM ultimately plans to distribute 150,000
to 200,000 Macs to workers, meaning about half of IBM's approximately
370,000 employees will have Macs.

the real growth is in the mobile space, as it is everywhere, not just
enterprise. mobile is the future.

airlines in particular are using ipads:
<https://www.cnet.com/news/singapore-airline-pilots-get-digitized-with-i
pads/>
But Singapore Airlines wants to change that for its pilots -- and
it's leveraging Apple's iPad to do so to make the "pilot duty
process" easier for its frequent flyers. The airline started looking
into this back in 2015, before rolling out iPads loaded with two
essential custom apps, FlyNow and Roster. These iPads are secured
with Apple's TouchID, letting them ditch the previously used
two-factor authentication dongles pilots had to carry around. That's
on top of the other apps that give pilots detailed weather
information and flight charting information.

note the 'custom app' part, which you incorrectly claimed was not
possible on ios devices. it's very possible and widely done, and quite
a bit easier with higher quality apps than with android.

more *custom* mobile apps:
<https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/ibm-and-united-airlines-collab
orate-on-enterprise-ios-apps-to-transform-travel-experience-300401163.ht
ml>
IBM (NYSE: IBM) and United Airlines today announced a collaboration
to deliver a robust suite of enterprise iOS apps, unleashing the
power of the more than 50,000 iOS devices in the hands of the
airline's front-line employees. As part of IBM and Apple's global
partnership to redefine the way work gets done, these
made-for-business apps will be powered by analytics and customized
to further drive the airline's digital transformation, enhancing how
United serves its customers.

<https://www.zdnet.com/article/apple-ge-partner-to-bring-predix-apps-to-
ios/>
General Electric is partnering with Apple to develop mobile apps for
industrial operators that will bring analytics from GE's Predix
platform to Apple's iPads and iPhones.
....
For Apple, the Cupertino tech giant has partnered with a number of
software companies in an effort to push iOS apps for the enterprise
-- including IBM, Cisco, Deloitte, and SAP -- but the GE partnership
goes a bit deeper.

delta is switching from microsoft surface to ipad:
<http://fortune.com/2017/10/23/delta-airlines-microsoft-surface-apple-ip
hone-ipad/>
Delta Air Lines will provide nearly 30,000 flight crew members with
Apple iPads and iPhones, reversing course from a high-profile deal
announced four years ago that armed flight crews with Microsoft
hardware.

Jolly Roger
Guest

Mon Dec 31, 2018 11:45 pm   



On 2018-12-31, rbowman <bowman_at_montana.com> wrote:
Quote:
On 12/31/2018 01:18 AM, nospam wrote:
developing and deploying for ios is a lot easier than android,
regardless of what type of app it is, largely because of the zillions
of devices needed to support and test, and apple is *not* solely
consumer focused in the least.

https://www.technewsworld.com/story/21320.html

How's that Xserve doing?


The Xserve has absolutely nothing to do with how easy it is to develop
mobile apps for iOS and Android. HARD FAIL. Troll harder. That attempt
was pitiful.

--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

nospam
Guest

Mon Dec 31, 2018 11:45 pm   



In article <g8vhehFcpp0U1_at_mid.individual.net>, Jolly Roger
<jollyroger_at_pobox.com> wrote:

Quote:
developing and deploying for ios is a lot easier than android,
regardless of what type of app it is, largely because of the zillions
of devices needed to support and test, and apple is *not* solely
consumer focused in the least.

https://www.technewsworld.com/story/21320.html

How's that Xserve doing?

The Xserve has absolutely nothing to do with how easy it is to develop
mobile apps for iOS and Android. HARD FAIL. Troll harder. That attempt
was pitiful.


to be fair, he was referring to the consumer focus part, although that
was just a small part of the entire comment.

and there's much more to enterprise than an xserve.

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