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rickman
Guest

Thu Oct 19, 2017 6:18 pm   



Jan Panteltje wrote on 10/19/2017 11:22 AM:
Quote:
On a sunny day (Thu, 19 Oct 2017 10:53:25 -0400) it happened rickman
gnuarm_at_gmail.com> wrote in <osae96$4i3$1_at_dont-email.me>:

Lights are not really required for small paddled boats in the US other than
needing one you can shine when required to prevent a collision (a good
flashlight). Manually paddled boats are covered by regulations for
sailboats "under oars". Otherwise you can show red/green to the front 225
and white to the rear 135. The flashlights require that you be able to
shine the light which is problematic if you are having trouble. I plan to
use a waterproof remote control to be able to manage a red/green/white light
in the front and a white light in the rear. Mounting it all on a single
mast would be ideal, but kayaks seldom have masts.


Anyways, 2 of those bottles like I showed, one left, one right,
or some other models,
drink content first, wine bottles do not leak, use cork.
Round liion may fit through bottle neck, 'recharge' often...

Or use something that is more appropriate.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/332252729519

My only real concern with this is how well I can mount the LEDs to shine
through the clear part. Initially I ordered some all clear cases intended
to secure a cell phone, but one cracked in transit and the gasket on it
looked like crap. So I thought something a bit more robust was in order.

Glass will not be used, period. I don't know why you can't see the issue.
Imagine the rough handling such containers will have to sustain when they
aren't on the boat. It's not like a piece of lab equipment.

OK, well there are also plastic bottles ;-)

But I was wondering if you could not make something with an existing 3 color sector light,
maybe fit the battery battery pack in it?
Those exists both with white LEDs and also with R, G, B LEDs like this:
http://www.cactusnav.com/nasa-supernova-combi-tricolour-anchor-light-p-12936.html
'Supernova lights do not have any national approvals'
The sailing guys here seem to like that one.


I have yet to find much that would be appropriate for a small vessel like a
kayak. It has to be two parts unless you want the bright white light
shining in your eyes. One of the great things about kayaking at night is
getting light adapted and seeing things under starlight.

Here is something interesting for enclosing the battery.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/112506110668

It is way larger than what I need, but can be folded over I think. Folding
it twice it is small enough. They don't say what it is made of. One way to
find out. Thanks for discussing this. I don't think I would have found
this bag if I weren't talking to you. The bag will be much better than the
other two approaches I found. But then there is the question of how good
the bag will be. It's cheap enough I might just do the test you suggested.

--

Rick C

Viewed the eclipse at Wintercrest Farms,
on the centerline of totality since 1998

Jan Panteltje
Guest

Thu Oct 19, 2017 6:47 pm   



On a sunny day (Thu, 19 Oct 2017 12:18:50 -0400) it happened rickman
<gnuarm_at_gmail.com> wrote in <osaj9b$cs3$1_at_dont-email.me>:

Quote:
I have yet to find much that would be appropriate for a small vessel like a
kayak. It has to be two parts unless you want the bright white light
shining in your eyes. One of the great things about kayaking at night is
getting light adapted and seeing things under starlight.

Here is something interesting for enclosing the battery.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/112506110668


Yes, those bags are often recommended, maybe I should get some too, or not???
I keep the liion cells that I do not use in a plastic icecream box..:
http://panteltje.com/pub/liion_cells_storage_IMG_6338.JPG
the tape it to prevent cells moving and makeing a ciruit.


Quote:
It is way larger than what I need, but can be folded over I think. Folding
it twice it is small enough. They don't say what it is made of. One way to
find out. Thanks for discussing this. I don't think I would have found
this bag if I weren't talking to you. The bag will be much better than the
other two approaches I found. But then there is the question of how good
the bag will be. It's cheap enough I might just do the test you suggested.


There was a video on youtube about it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEkewCjiDs0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnNId0mDnBo
YMMV

rickman
Guest

Thu Oct 19, 2017 6:51 pm   



Jan Panteltje wrote on 10/19/2017 11:22 AM:
Quote:

OK, well there are also plastic bottles Wink


Once a friend needed to be able to hear the phone ring when she was outside
(think of phones connected together by wires, I know, absurd, but that's
what we used to use). I put a sonalert in a plastic mayonnaise jar (yes,
this was recent enough for food to come in plastic bottles) and she could
hear it all over the yard. She left it behind when she moved. It was under
the house in the crawlspace, so I don't know if it is still in use today
just because it's a PITA to disconnect, lol. Lightning has likely taken it
out by now.

--

Rick C

Viewed the eclipse at Wintercrest Farms,
on the centerline of totality since 1998

rickman
Guest

Fri Oct 20, 2017 12:34 am   



Jan Panteltje wrote on 10/19/2017 12:47 PM:
Quote:
On a sunny day (Thu, 19 Oct 2017 12:18:50 -0400) it happened rickman
gnuarm_at_gmail.com> wrote in <osaj9b$cs3$1_at_dont-email.me>:

I have yet to find much that would be appropriate for a small vessel like a
kayak. It has to be two parts unless you want the bright white light
shining in your eyes. One of the great things about kayaking at night is
getting light adapted and seeing things under starlight.

Here is something interesting for enclosing the battery.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/112506110668

Yes, those bags are often recommended, maybe I should get some too, or not???
I keep the liion cells that I do not use in a plastic icecream box..:
http://panteltje.com/pub/liion_cells_storage_IMG_6338.JPG
the tape it to prevent cells moving and makeing a ciruit.


It is way larger than what I need, but can be folded over I think. Folding
it twice it is small enough. They don't say what it is made of. One way to
find out. Thanks for discussing this. I don't think I would have found
this bag if I weren't talking to you. The bag will be much better than the
other two approaches I found. But then there is the question of how good
the bag will be. It's cheap enough I might just do the test you suggested.

There was a video on youtube about it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEkewCjiDs0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnNId0mDnBo
YMMV


Interesting. Both videos use a lot more battery than I will use and the bag
is barely closed. I would be essentially rolling the bag up and depending
on the size I use I would be folding the sides over before rolling. These
bags are not made of thick material. Much better would be this...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/171761074567

or this...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/192107744089

A meter of the hose is about $22 from Aliexpress. I used an eBay link
because you can't shorten Ali links the same way. The hose is silicone
coated fiberglass which is rated for some minutes at 1100 F/600 C which is
the alleged temperature of a Li-ion battery fire.

The blanket is only $8. It is ceramic fiber rated for higher temperatures
indefinitely. It would be enough material for at least three units. I plan
to make at least two. I believe I can make a pouch easily using thin gauge
wire.

--

Rick C

Viewed the eclipse at Wintercrest Farms,
on the centerline of totality since 1998

Jan Panteltje
Guest

Fri Oct 20, 2017 9:48 am   



On a sunny day (Thu, 19 Oct 2017 18:34:47 -0400) it happened rickman
<gnuarm_at_gmail.com> wrote in <osb9a9$v5o$1_at_dont-email.me>:

Quote:
Interesting. Both videos use a lot more battery than I will use and the bag
is barely closed. I would be essentially rolling the bag up and depending
on the size I use I would be folding the sides over before rolling.


You have to leave some opening so the smoke can escape and the pressure can
be prevented to build up to a point where the bag tares.


Quote:
These bags are not made of thick material. Much better would be this...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/171761074567

or this...


I wonder if that stuff absorbs moisture...

>https://www.ebay.com/itm/192107744089

Same.



Quote:
A meter of the hose is about $22 from Aliexpress. I used an eBay link
because you can't shorten Ali links the same way. The hose is silicone
coated fiberglass which is rated for some minutes at 1100 F/600 C which is
the alleged temperature of a Li-ion battery fire.

The blanket is only $8. It is ceramic fiber rated for higher temperatures
indefinitely. It would be enough material for at least three units. I plan
to make at least two. I believe I can make a pouch easily using thin gauge
wire.


I still think you are over-designing a bit.

I like the flat plastic case for the lights you posted, IF it is really waterproof I would
not bother with too much 'fire protection' especially with those batteries with protection chip.
If it does catch fire, then overboard with it... ;-)


Other thing I was thinking is to make 2 'antennas' of carbon fiber rod or some flexible rod at the rear of the kayak with in the top red and green LEDs,
battery holder at the bottom, needs some screws on an attachment point.




0 0 --> LED
\ /
\ /
\ / carbon rod
\ /
[ ] [ ]
================= kayak

Could also be one thing with 2 antennas

Danger is it sticks in you eyes.

Experiment.
Let us know !

rickman
Guest

Fri Oct 20, 2017 10:56 am   



Jan Panteltje wrote on 10/20/2017 3:48 AM:
Quote:
On a sunny day (Thu, 19 Oct 2017 18:34:47 -0400) it happened rickman
gnuarm_at_gmail.com> wrote in <osb9a9$v5o$1_at_dont-email.me>:

Interesting. Both videos use a lot more battery than I will use and the bag
is barely closed. I would be essentially rolling the bag up and depending
on the size I use I would be folding the sides over before rolling.

You have to leave some opening so the smoke can escape and the pressure can
be prevented to build up to a point where the bag tares.


Yes, but some opening is not the gaping holes in these bags. The other
video with a bunch of batteries in a latched and sealed ammo case is pretty
instructive. Before it broke the seal it actually dented the can with the
pressure. But like I said earlier, one cell of Lipo is not nearly as much
energy as the videos show.

If I could find similar products to the power bank boards that worked with
NiMH, I'd go that route. I believe they actually prefer NiCad in power
tools because of the high current. NiMH has too much internal impedance.
But this will only draw a couple hundred mA most likely, so it would be a
good fit. I would have to roll my own design for the whole thing.


Quote:
These bags are not made of thick material. Much better would be this...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/171761074567

or this...

I wonder if that stuff absorbs moisture...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/192107744089

Same.


Not sure why you think it will wick moisture and why that is an issue. The
cell is sealed so some moisture won't hurt it. If it catches fire moisture
will only help dampen the temperature.


Quote:
A meter of the hose is about $22 from Aliexpress. I used an eBay link
because you can't shorten Ali links the same way. The hose is silicone
coated fiberglass which is rated for some minutes at 1100 F/600 C which is
the alleged temperature of a Li-ion battery fire.

The blanket is only $8. It is ceramic fiber rated for higher temperatures
indefinitely. It would be enough material for at least three units. I plan
to make at least two. I believe I can make a pouch easily using thin gauge
wire.

I still think you are over-designing a bit.


Maybe. Many people take their cell phone out on a kayak as a rescue device.
It would suck if it caught fire and cause the boat to sink.


> I like the flat plastic case for the lights you posted, IF it is really waterproof I would

Yeah, I already bought one case designed for cell phones and they seem to
have a very poor seal material, hard and not terribly compliant. Being
water tight is essential. I've had a number of things ruined while kayaking
when they were supposed to be water tight, including handheld IP67 GPS devices.


Quote:
not bother with too much 'fire protection' especially with those batteries with protection chip.
If it does catch fire, then overboard with it... Wink


You keep not paying attention. There will be two of these at opposite ends
of a 17 foot kayak and the paddler in the middle. There's no way to release
it.


Quote:
Other thing I was thinking is to make 2 'antennas' of carbon fiber rod or some flexible rod at the rear of the kayak with in the top red and green LEDs,
battery holder at the bottom, needs some screws on an attachment point.




0 0 --> LED
\ /
\ /
\ / carbon rod
\ /
[ ] [ ]
================= kayak

Could also be one thing with 2 antennas

Danger is it sticks in you eyes.

Experiment.
Let us know !


No need to experiment. Things sticking up on a kayak are not good. I'm not
sure why you would think there is any advantage to this anyhow.

Everything on a kayak wants to be low on the deck, unless you are flying a
flag. The red and green lights go on the front to make sure they are seen
at all times. They shine from dead ahead to 22.5 degrees past a
perpendicular line off each side. The person needs to not be in the way or
the light can be missed. They are mounted (along with the white light that
shines over the remaining 135 degrees) on the top of the mast of a sail boat
because it *has* a mast. On a kayak, a second unit is needed at the rear
for the white light. When "at anchor" an all around white light is
required. If you were to put the lights on a mast of some sort, they would
all be mounted in one unit, not separate units. But a tall thing is a very
poor idea for may reasons. Try kayaking sometime, you will learn quickly.

My idea is to use two identical units with something to tell each one which
is which (I'm thinking of a magnet operated switch perhaps or an internal
switch that you open the cover to set when you mount it on the boat). The
only difference is how the units respond to the remote. There are four
states - Off, Nav (red/green/white), anchor (all white) and emergency
(flashes SOS in Morse code with all lights white). The flashing lowers the
duty cycle and extends the duration of the battery. With 3000 mAHr it would
run for some 10 hours continuously, or twice or triple that when flashing.
But that is just an estimate. It helps in recovering the boat and/or the body.

--

Rick C

Viewed the eclipse at Wintercrest Farms,
on the centerline of totality since 1998

Jan Panteltje
Guest

Fri Oct 20, 2017 11:38 am   



On a sunny day (Fri, 20 Oct 2017 04:56:50 -0400) it happened rickman
<gnuarm_at_gmail.com> wrote in <oscdoi$iu3$1_at_dont-email.me>:

Quote:
These bags are not made of thick material. Much better would be this...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/171761074567

or this...

I wonder if that stuff absorbs moisture...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/192107744089

Same.

Not sure why you think it will wick moisture and why that is an issue. The
cell is sealed so some moisture won't hurt it. If it catches fire moisture
will only help dampen the temperature.


So, you contradict yourself,
you had fear of water (for the cells Wink ),
now you say they are dry.


Quote:
Maybe. Many people take their cell phone out on a kayak as a rescue device.
It would suck if it caught fire and cause the boat to sink.


The solution is well known, called a PLB, EPIRB, the latest seems to be this:
http://oceansignal.com/products/plb1/

But I do not think you will be kayaking on the ocean or big water?
https://www.panbo.com/archives/2016/12/mcmurdo_smartfind_g8_ais_epirb_first_of_many_plbs_too_.html
lots of info there too.


Quote:
Yeah, I already bought one case designed for cell phones and they seem to
have a very poor seal material, hard and not terribly compliant. Being
water tight is essential. I've had a number of things ruined while kayaking
when they were supposed to be water tight, including handheld IP67 GPS devices.


not bother with too much 'fire protection' especially with those batteries with protection chip.
If it does catch fire, then overboard with it... ;-)

You keep not paying attention.


Wow


Quote:
There will be two of these at opposite ends
of a 17 foot kayak and the paddler in the middle. There's no way to release
it.


Easy to make a release system with some dyneema line.


Quote:
Other thing I was thinking is to make 2 'antennas' of carbon fiber rod or some flexible rod at the rear of the kayak with in
the top red and green LEDs,
battery holder at the bottom, needs some screws on an attachment point.




0 0 --> LED
\ /
\ /
\ / carbon rod
\ /
[ ] [ ]
================= kayak

Could also be one thing with 2 antennas

Danger is it sticks in you eyes.

Experiment.
Let us know !

No need to experiment. Things sticking up on a kayak are not good. I'm not
sure why you would think there is any advantage to this anyhow.


Can view it from further away seems a good one to me.


Quote:
Everything on a kayak wants to be low on the deck, unless you are flying a
flag. The red and green lights go on the front to make sure they are seen
at all times. They shine from dead ahead to 22.5 degrees past a
perpendicular line off each side. The person needs to not be in the way or
the light can be missed. They are mounted (along with the white light that
shines over the remaining 135 degrees) on the top of the mast of a sail boat
because it *has* a mast. On a kayak, a second unit is needed at the rear
for the white light. When "at anchor" an all around white light is
required. If you were to put the lights on a mast of some sort, they would
all be mounted in one unit, not separate units. But a tall thing is a very
poor idea for may reasons. Try kayaking sometime, you will learn quickly.


Actually I did, has been 50 years ago or so though.
But not at night.


Quote:
My idea is to use two identical units with something to tell each one which
is which (I'm thinking of a magnet operated switch perhaps or an internal
switch that you open the cover to set when you mount it on the boat). The
only difference is how the units respond to the remote. There are four
states - Off, Nav (red/green/white), anchor (all white) and emergency
(flashes SOS in Morse code with all lights white). The flashing lowers the
duty cycle and extends the duration of the battery. With 3000 mAHr it would
run for some 10 hours continuously, or twice or triple that when flashing.
But that is just an estimate. It helps in recovering the boat and/or the body.


Well just build it, I really do not see the problem, few hours design work.
If you have the remote, add an eject button:-)
(it would need a separate battery, but wait, why not eject automatically (spring latch)
when an IR optocoupler detects smoke or a sensor over-heating in the thing?
Now THERE is a design challenge.
You can add a phone home, fire crackers, sound alarm, and a speaker giving voice instructions to the crew(you) how to duck for cover.
You also need coffee maker, pizza oven, fridge, probably need a bigger battery than just 3 Ah.

How's that for paying attention?
Can you keep up?
:-)





Quote:
--

Rick C

Viewed the eclipse at Wintercrest Farms,
on the centerline of totality since 1998


Here a few days ago the sun was red from the bush fires in the south of Europe, wind from that direction, you could smell it too.
When the 100 % eclipse was here around 2000 IIRC even the flowers closed.. very strange.

rickman
Guest

Fri Oct 20, 2017 6:47 pm   



Jan Panteltje wrote on 10/20/2017 5:38 AM:
Quote:
On a sunny day (Fri, 20 Oct 2017 04:56:50 -0400) it happened rickman
gnuarm_at_gmail.com> wrote in <oscdoi$iu3$1_at_dont-email.me>:

These bags are not made of thick material. Much better would be this...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/171761074567

or this...

I wonder if that stuff absorbs moisture...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/192107744089

Same.

Not sure why you think it will wick moisture and why that is an issue. The
cell is sealed so some moisture won't hurt it. If it catches fire moisture
will only help dampen the temperature.

So, you contradict yourself,
you had fear of water (for the cells Wink ),
now you say they are dry.


I guess you aren't reading any posts that aren't in reply to yours. I have
already been educated that Li-ion is not the same as elemental lithium.
Regardless, your sentence is not clear. My concern is making a dangerous
fire worse, but that doesn't happen getting a lithium ion cell wet.


Quote:
Maybe. Many people take their cell phone out on a kayak as a rescue device.
It would suck if it caught fire and cause the boat to sink.

The solution is well known, called a PLB, EPIRB, the latest seems to be this:
http://oceansignal.com/products/plb1/


Why do you feel the need to educate me on things I already know about?
These are great devices, but it can still take time to reach you. In an
emergency time can be of the essence. The blinking light is a clear
distress signal helping to attract attention. Also, EPIRB and PLB aren't
nav lights.


Quote:
But I do not think you will be kayaking on the ocean or big water?
https://www.panbo.com/archives/2016/12/mcmurdo_smartfind_g8_ais_epirb_first_of_many_plbs_too_.html
lots of info there too.


Yeah, I already bought one case designed for cell phones and they seem to
have a very poor seal material, hard and not terribly compliant. Being
water tight is essential. I've had a number of things ruined while kayaking
when they were supposed to be water tight, including handheld IP67 GPS devices.


not bother with too much 'fire protection' especially with those batteries with protection chip.
If it does catch fire, then overboard with it... ;-)

You keep not paying attention.

Wow


Wow???


Quote:
There will be two of these at opposite ends
of a 17 foot kayak and the paddler in the middle. There's no way to release
it.

Easy to make a release system with some dyneema line.


You keep showing a lack of understanding of kayaks. Get a kayak, paddle it
for a few months and get back to me on how practical it is to have release
lines running the length of the boat. Also make sure you learn how to do a
self rescue.


Quote:
Other thing I was thinking is to make 2 'antennas' of carbon fiber rod or some flexible rod at the rear of the kayak with in
the top red and green LEDs,
battery holder at the bottom, needs some screws on an attachment point.




0 0 --> LED
\ /
\ /
\ / carbon rod
\ /
[ ] [ ]
================= kayak

Could also be one thing with 2 antennas

Danger is it sticks in you eyes.

Experiment.
Let us know !

No need to experiment. Things sticking up on a kayak are not good. I'm not
sure why you would think there is any advantage to this anyhow.

Can view it from further away seems a good one to me.


The lights are to avoid a collision. My hand held light works just fine
when I turn it on. I want nav lights so I don't need to worry with the
flash light. They don't need to sacrifice practicality for visibility.
Visibility will be just fine on the deck.


Quote:
Everything on a kayak wants to be low on the deck, unless you are flying a
flag. The red and green lights go on the front to make sure they are seen
at all times. They shine from dead ahead to 22.5 degrees past a
perpendicular line off each side. The person needs to not be in the way or
the light can be missed. They are mounted (along with the white light that
shines over the remaining 135 degrees) on the top of the mast of a sail boat
because it *has* a mast. On a kayak, a second unit is needed at the rear
for the white light. When "at anchor" an all around white light is
required. If you were to put the lights on a mast of some sort, they would
all be mounted in one unit, not separate units. But a tall thing is a very
poor idea for may reasons. Try kayaking sometime, you will learn quickly.

Actually I did, has been 50 years ago or so though.
But not at night.


White water or flat? Did you learn safety practices? Did you learn any
self rescues? The deck of a kayak is not a static place. Some styles of
rescue involve climbing over the back deck. No poles, etc. allowed.


Quote:
My idea is to use two identical units with something to tell each one which
is which (I'm thinking of a magnet operated switch perhaps or an internal
switch that you open the cover to set when you mount it on the boat). The
only difference is how the units respond to the remote. There are four
states - Off, Nav (red/green/white), anchor (all white) and emergency
(flashes SOS in Morse code with all lights white). The flashing lowers the
duty cycle and extends the duration of the battery. With 3000 mAHr it would
run for some 10 hours continuously, or twice or triple that when flashing.
But that is just an estimate. It helps in recovering the boat and/or the body.

Well just build it, I really do not see the problem, few hours design work.
If you have the remote, add an eject button:-)
(it would need a separate battery, but wait, why not eject automatically (spring latch)


The receiver and release don't need a battery?


Quote:
when an IR optocoupler detects smoke or a sensor over-heating in the thing?
Now THERE is a design challenge.


Not so much a design challenge as a question of need. It needs to be safe,
there are more than one ways to skin a cat.


Quote:
You can add a phone home, fire crackers, sound alarm, and a speaker giving voice instructions to the crew(you) how to duck for cover.
You also need coffee maker, pizza oven, fridge, probably need a bigger battery than just 3 Ah.

How's that for paying attention?
Can you keep up?
Smile


Great job!


Quote:
Viewed the eclipse at Wintercrest Farms,
on the centerline of totality since 1998

Here a few days ago the sun was red from the bush fires in the south of Europe, wind from that direction, you could smell it too.
When the 100 % eclipse was here around 2000 IIRC even the flowers closed.. very strange.


It was pretty cool but far too short. They should work on making them last
longer. Barely time to get one's cloths off and dance.

--

Rick C

Viewed the eclipse at Wintercrest Farms,
on the centerline of totality since 1998

Jan Panteltje
Guest

Fri Oct 20, 2017 7:00 pm   



On a sunny day (Fri, 20 Oct 2017 12:47:16 -0400) it happened rickman
<gnuarm_at_gmail.com> wrote in <osd9ak$g1o$1_at_dont-email.me>:

Quote:
The solution is well known, called a PLB, EPIRB, the latest seems to be this:
http://oceansignal.com/products/plb1/

Why do you feel the need to educate me on things I already know about?


Sigh,
note what it says about the battery.
You DO notice it has none of those protections you are on about?
There simply is no space for that.
It is simply a waterproof case, and the battery is OK.
Study other designs before taking of on a tangent.

rickman
Guest

Fri Oct 20, 2017 7:45 pm   



Jan Panteltje wrote on 10/20/2017 1:00 PM:
Quote:
On a sunny day (Fri, 20 Oct 2017 12:47:16 -0400) it happened rickman
gnuarm_at_gmail.com> wrote in <osd9ak$g1o$1_at_dont-email.me>:

The solution is well known, called a PLB, EPIRB, the latest seems to be this:
http://oceansignal.com/products/plb1/

Why do you feel the need to educate me on things I already know about?

Sigh,
note what it says about the battery.


If you want to say something, why not just say it?


Quote:
You DO notice it has none of those protections you are on about?
There simply is no space for that.
It is simply a waterproof case, and the battery is OK.
Study other designs before taking of on a tangent.


They use a primary battery which is NOT Li-ion. It does contain elemental
lithium, but this type of cell has a lower risk of fire than most types of
lithium cells. But it is a primary type and is not rechargeable.

I do find it funny that you seem to think I am taking of on a tangent.

--

Rick C

Viewed the eclipse at Wintercrest Farms,
on the centerline of totality since 1998


Guest

Sat Oct 21, 2017 2:05 am   



On Fri, 20 Oct 2017 04:56:50 -0400, rickman <gnuarm_at_gmail.com> wrote:

Quote:
Jan Panteltje wrote on 10/20/2017 3:48 AM:
On a sunny day (Thu, 19 Oct 2017 18:34:47 -0400) it happened rickman
gnuarm_at_gmail.com> wrote in <osb9a9$v5o$1_at_dont-email.me>:

Interesting. Both videos use a lot more battery than I will use and the bag
is barely closed. I would be essentially rolling the bag up and depending
on the size I use I would be folding the sides over before rolling.

You have to leave some opening so the smoke can escape and the pressure can
be prevented to build up to a point where the bag tares.

Yes, but some opening is not the gaping holes in these bags. The other
video with a bunch of batteries in a latched and sealed ammo case is pretty
instructive. Before it broke the seal it actually dented the can with the
pressure. But like I said earlier, one cell of Lipo is not nearly as much
energy as the videos show.

If I could find similar products to the power bank boards that worked with
NiMH, I'd go that route. I believe they actually prefer NiCad in power
tools because of the high current. NiMH has too much internal impedance.
But this will only draw a couple hundred mA most likely, so it would be a
good fit. I would have to roll my own design for the whole thing.


Not sure where you going with your comment that "they" prefer NiCad in
power tools. "They" (manufacturers) make almost[*] 100% LiIon tools
these days. LiIon is a hands-down winner in this application, even
though they scare you.

[*] Someone might still make NiCd, still.

rickman
Guest

Sat Oct 21, 2017 4:54 am   



krw_at_notreal.com wrote on 10/20/2017 8:05 PM:
Quote:
On Fri, 20 Oct 2017 04:56:50 -0400, rickman <gnuarm_at_gmail.com> wrote:

Jan Panteltje wrote on 10/20/2017 3:48 AM:
On a sunny day (Thu, 19 Oct 2017 18:34:47 -0400) it happened rickman
gnuarm_at_gmail.com> wrote in <osb9a9$v5o$1_at_dont-email.me>:

Interesting. Both videos use a lot more battery than I will use and the bag
is barely closed. I would be essentially rolling the bag up and depending
on the size I use I would be folding the sides over before rolling.

You have to leave some opening so the smoke can escape and the pressure can
be prevented to build up to a point where the bag tares.

Yes, but some opening is not the gaping holes in these bags. The other
video with a bunch of batteries in a latched and sealed ammo case is pretty
instructive. Before it broke the seal it actually dented the can with the
pressure. But like I said earlier, one cell of Lipo is not nearly as much
energy as the videos show.

If I could find similar products to the power bank boards that worked with
NiMH, I'd go that route. I believe they actually prefer NiCad in power
tools because of the high current. NiMH has too much internal impedance.
But this will only draw a couple hundred mA most likely, so it would be a
good fit. I would have to roll my own design for the whole thing.

Not sure where you going with your comment that "they" prefer NiCad in
power tools. "They" (manufacturers) make almost[*] 100% LiIon tools
these days. LiIon is a hands-down winner in this application, even
though they scare you.


The context was compared to NiMH.

--

Rick C

Viewed the eclipse at Wintercrest Farms,
on the centerline of totality since 1998


Guest

Sat Oct 21, 2017 5:03 am   



On Fri, 20 Oct 2017 22:54:41 -0400, rickman <gnuarm_at_gmail.com> wrote:

Quote:
krw_at_notreal.com wrote on 10/20/2017 8:05 PM:
On Fri, 20 Oct 2017 04:56:50 -0400, rickman <gnuarm_at_gmail.com> wrote:

Jan Panteltje wrote on 10/20/2017 3:48 AM:
On a sunny day (Thu, 19 Oct 2017 18:34:47 -0400) it happened rickman
gnuarm_at_gmail.com> wrote in <osb9a9$v5o$1_at_dont-email.me>:

Interesting. Both videos use a lot more battery than I will use and the bag
is barely closed. I would be essentially rolling the bag up and depending
on the size I use I would be folding the sides over before rolling.

You have to leave some opening so the smoke can escape and the pressure can
be prevented to build up to a point where the bag tares.

Yes, but some opening is not the gaping holes in these bags. The other
video with a bunch of batteries in a latched and sealed ammo case is pretty
instructive. Before it broke the seal it actually dented the can with the
pressure. But like I said earlier, one cell of Lipo is not nearly as much
energy as the videos show.

If I could find similar products to the power bank boards that worked with
NiMH, I'd go that route. I believe they actually prefer NiCad in power
tools because of the high current. NiMH has too much internal impedance.
But this will only draw a couple hundred mA most likely, so it would be a
good fit. I would have to roll my own design for the whole thing.

Not sure where you going with your comment that "they" prefer NiCad in
power tools. "They" (manufacturers) make almost[*] 100% LiIon tools
these days. LiIon is a hands-down winner in this application, even
though they scare you.

The context was compared to NiMH.


Gotcha. Is anyone still making NiCD or NiMH tools? I haven't seen
any in a long time.

rickman
Guest

Sat Oct 21, 2017 5:23 am   



krw_at_notreal.com wrote on 10/20/2017 11:03 PM:
Quote:
On Fri, 20 Oct 2017 22:54:41 -0400, rickman <gnuarm_at_gmail.com> wrote:

krw_at_notreal.com wrote on 10/20/2017 8:05 PM:
On Fri, 20 Oct 2017 04:56:50 -0400, rickman <gnuarm_at_gmail.com> wrote:

Jan Panteltje wrote on 10/20/2017 3:48 AM:
On a sunny day (Thu, 19 Oct 2017 18:34:47 -0400) it happened rickman
gnuarm_at_gmail.com> wrote in <osb9a9$v5o$1_at_dont-email.me>:

Interesting. Both videos use a lot more battery than I will use and the bag
is barely closed. I would be essentially rolling the bag up and depending
on the size I use I would be folding the sides over before rolling.

You have to leave some opening so the smoke can escape and the pressure can
be prevented to build up to a point where the bag tares.

Yes, but some opening is not the gaping holes in these bags. The other
video with a bunch of batteries in a latched and sealed ammo case is pretty
instructive. Before it broke the seal it actually dented the can with the
pressure. But like I said earlier, one cell of Lipo is not nearly as much
energy as the videos show.

If I could find similar products to the power bank boards that worked with
NiMH, I'd go that route. I believe they actually prefer NiCad in power
tools because of the high current. NiMH has too much internal impedance.
But this will only draw a couple hundred mA most likely, so it would be a
good fit. I would have to roll my own design for the whole thing.

Not sure where you going with your comment that "they" prefer NiCad in
power tools. "They" (manufacturers) make almost[*] 100% LiIon tools
these days. LiIon is a hands-down winner in this application, even
though they scare you.

The context was compared to NiMH.

Gotcha. Is anyone still making NiCD or NiMH tools? I haven't seen
any in a long time.


Don't know. It's been too long since I dug into hand tools much. I
remember having an RC boat which ran ok on alkaline cells. Then I got
rechargeables for it and it TOOK OFF like a rocket. Seems the lower
resistance of the NiCd made a big difference. But it only ran for five
minutes, lol.

--

Rick C

Viewed the eclipse at Wintercrest Farms,
on the centerline of totality since 1998


Guest

Sat Oct 21, 2017 4:48 pm   



On Fri, 20 Oct 2017 23:23:20 -0400, rickman <gnuarm_at_gmail.com> wrote:

Quote:
krw_at_notreal.com wrote on 10/20/2017 11:03 PM:
On Fri, 20 Oct 2017 22:54:41 -0400, rickman <gnuarm_at_gmail.com> wrote:

krw_at_notreal.com wrote on 10/20/2017 8:05 PM:
On Fri, 20 Oct 2017 04:56:50 -0400, rickman <gnuarm_at_gmail.com> wrote:

Jan Panteltje wrote on 10/20/2017 3:48 AM:
On a sunny day (Thu, 19 Oct 2017 18:34:47 -0400) it happened rickman
gnuarm_at_gmail.com> wrote in <osb9a9$v5o$1_at_dont-email.me>:

Interesting. Both videos use a lot more battery than I will use and the bag
is barely closed. I would be essentially rolling the bag up and depending
on the size I use I would be folding the sides over before rolling.

You have to leave some opening so the smoke can escape and the pressure can
be prevented to build up to a point where the bag tares.

Yes, but some opening is not the gaping holes in these bags. The other
video with a bunch of batteries in a latched and sealed ammo case is pretty
instructive. Before it broke the seal it actually dented the can with the
pressure. But like I said earlier, one cell of Lipo is not nearly as much
energy as the videos show.

If I could find similar products to the power bank boards that worked with
NiMH, I'd go that route. I believe they actually prefer NiCad in power
tools because of the high current. NiMH has too much internal impedance.
But this will only draw a couple hundred mA most likely, so it would be a
good fit. I would have to roll my own design for the whole thing.

Not sure where you going with your comment that "they" prefer NiCad in
power tools. "They" (manufacturers) make almost[*] 100% LiIon tools
these days. LiIon is a hands-down winner in this application, even
though they scare you.

The context was compared to NiMH.

Gotcha. Is anyone still making NiCD or NiMH tools? I haven't seen
any in a long time.

Don't know. It's been too long since I dug into hand tools much. I
remember having an RC boat which ran ok on alkaline cells. Then I got
rechargeables for it and it TOOK OFF like a rocket. Seems the lower
resistance of the NiCd made a big difference. But it only ran for five
minutes, lol.


Most stuff designed for Alkalines ran like crap with NiCds, due to the
lower voltage. Some stuff didn't run at all (UVLO). NiCds also have
a horrible self discharge and short life, particularly multi-cell
packs if not kept charged. A real bad combination for tools. LiIon
fixes all that.

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