Let's design a fake Perpetual Motion machine

Mon Mar 15, 2010 10:27 am   

On Mar 14, 11:36 am, "Sue..." <suzysewns...@yahoo.com.au> wrote:

It's the Randi technique: a good fake can lead many onlookers to think
more critically, and might even cause some of the believers to think
twice.



So you didn't like the famous fake PM machines built by David Jones,
"Daedalus," columnist in Nature?

PM Machines as Art
http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/museum/art.htm

His were straightforward: battery banks, plus very well hidden
electrical connections. Much cooler would be to intercept ambient RF
from distant AM stations, 60Hz b-fields, or perhaps harness the
thermal IR of warm human passersby. Or build something which turns
for weeks, while slowly destroying a permanent magnet.


((((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( (o) ) ) )))))))))))))))))))))))
William J. Beaty Research Engineer
beaty a chem washington edu UW Chem Dept, Bagley Hall RM74
billb a eskimo com Box 351700, Seattle, WA 98195-1700
ph206-762-3818 http://staff.washington.edu/wbeaty/

Mon Mar 15, 2010 3:09 pm   

On 3/15/10 8:11 AM, bert wrote:

Put one on your boat, Herb!

Mon Mar 15, 2010 3:11 pm   

On Mar 14, 12:02 am, Sam Wormley <sworml...@gmail.com> wrote:

Sam My lastest idea is to marry a wind turbine to large flywheel. Its
machanical energy all the way down TreBert

Mon Mar 15, 2010 3:21 pm   

On Mar 15, 1:27 am, Bill Beaty <bi...@eskimo.com> wrote:


If you split a chunk of wood, you can glue it back together along the
split and the split can be near impossible to detect. The chunk of
wood can be hollowed out so that batteries, electronics and a a coil
can be hidden inside.

Tubing can works as the structure for holding stuff up and as a way
to hide the energy source. It can also work as a way to bring
compressed air to the machine through a hidden pipe.

A table can have a powerful electromagnet hidden under it. If most
of the machine is nonmagnetic the magnetic part that is attracted
by the magnet can be some distance above the table.

The entire room can be on a giant turntable. If all the light
sources and the camera etc are all in motion, a stationary weighted
wheel would appear to be rotating.

You can give an object with low friction a spin with your hand and it
will spin for a few minutes. Reverse the direction of the tape and
then dub in your voice and you have a device that speeds up over time.

If really low amounts of power are needed, the natural changes in air
temperature and pressure can be used as a power source.

Mon Mar 15, 2010 7:48 pm   

On Mar 15, 7:09 am, Sam Wormley <sworml...@gmail.com> wrote:


Or on a railroad cart.

Hey, David Jones has a PM machine movie!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cf7czii7dH0



((((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( (o) ) ) )))))))))))))))))))))))
William J. Beaty Research Engineer
beaty a chem washington edu UW Chem Dept, Bagley Hall RM74
billb a eskimo com Box 351700, Seattle, WA 98195-1700
ph206-762-3818 http://staff.washington.edu/wbeaty/

Tue Mar 16, 2010 12:44 am   

"Greegor" <greegor47_at_gmail.com> wrote in message
news:0ef57af7-3070-48b1-a225-5e89d2917809_at_q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com...

By "stressing" a permanent magnet (i.e., applying opposing magnetization),
you drive its B-H curve slightly backwards. If you push it past the
coercive force Hc, you'll demagnetize it. Fortunately, this takes an awful
lot of magnetization (ca. 1MA/m). For normal operating levels, you only
push the magnet a little way back along the B-H curve. Because it's quite
square, the drop in remanence (field strength) is small, and after an
initial burn-in at full load, it will remain quite the same for the rest of
its operating life.

Tim

--
Deep Friar: a very philosophical monk.
Website: http://webpages.charter.net/dawill/tmoranwms

Tue Mar 16, 2010 1:12 am   

Is there any math on how fast ""permanent magnet""
generators (or DC motors used in that role)
wear down their magnets?

Tue Mar 16, 2010 3:49 am   

On Mon, 15 Mar 2010 16:12:47 -0700 (PDT), Greegor <greegor47_at_gmail.com>
wrote:


Bwuahahahahahahahahaahahahaha!

What part of the word "permanent" do you not understand?

Tue Mar 16, 2010 9:31 pm   

On Mar 15, 10:09 am, Sam Wormley <sworml...@gmail.com> wrote:

Sam My Boat is so small.(just a barrel) Still wind was first used and
every motor has a fly wheel. Flywheel can store energy. They are
protential energy and go round and round I like that feature TreBert

Wed Mar 17, 2010 7:41 am   

On Tue, 16 Mar 2010 12:31:50 -0700 (PDT), bert <herbertglazier79_at_msn.com> wrote:


How odd, i can't think of an electric motor nor a turbine that has a flywheel.

Wed Mar 17, 2010 3:54 pm   

On Mar 16, 11:41 pm, "JosephKK"<quiettechb...@yahoo.com> wrote:

I have seen more than one electric motor with a flywheel.

(1) On a quite seriously fast punch machine for making the E core
shapes
out of sheet metal, the motor had a flywheel and the mechanical bit
went
bang-bang at about a 10Hz rate cutting the metal.

(2) A little toy electric motor had just one coil and contact and
worked a
little like a 2 stroke gas engine.

Wed Mar 17, 2010 4:19 pm   

On Mar 17, 2:41 am, "JosephKK"<quiettechb...@yahoo.com> wrote:

You should think a lot more. Rotor of electric motor is very heavy and
acts like its flywheel Same is true for the heavy blades of turbines.
Best read up on diesel electric trains. TreBert

Wed Mar 17, 2010 11:21 pm   

Jim Thompson wrote:

AFAIK the _spec_ is as follows: 22 pound paper, 17"x22" 500 sheets
weighs 22 pounds.

Thu Mar 18, 2010 1:00 am   

On Wed, 17 Mar 2010 05:50:51 -0700, Archimedes' Lever
<OneBigLever_at_InfiniteSeries.Org> wrote:


Wow! I've never seen a pot that black, AlwaysWrong.

Thu Mar 18, 2010 4:21 am   

On Wed, 17 Mar 2010 07:19:24 -0700 (PDT), bert <herbertglazier79_at_msn.com>
wrote:


No turbine on diesel electric train. Piston diesel engine, driving
electric generator, driving electric traction motor. The loading is so
heavy that there is no "flywheel effect" of any of these components that
makes any difference. The diesel engine rpm determines the rest based on
the load. All three sponge into each other and rpm reductions play right
down through the chain immediately without any flywheel effect
whatsoever. Magnetic fields push hard... or not.

Perhaps a water turbine cares not about the mass of its blades, but a
jet engine turbine most certainly cannot have high centrifugal forces or
the blades will explode (fly apart). They are deliberately kept as light
as possible. The entire assembly rotates easily, to be sure, but I would
not attribute a lot of "flywheel effect" or gyroscopic inertia to it,
though it will have far more than ANY train component. It spins at 100k
rpm!