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Lead acid battery charger (or alternator) switching to trick

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Commander Kinsey
Guest

Fri Jun 21, 2019 9:45 pm   



How does a lead acid battery charger (or car alternator) know when to switch to trickle charge? I can understand it noticing a drop in charging current if the battery is on its own, but what if a random changing load is connected, as there is in a running car?

%
Guest

Fri Jun 21, 2019 10:45 pm   



On 2019-06-21 1:19 p.m., Commander Kinsey wrote:
Quote:
How does a lead acid battery charger (or car alternator) know when to
switch to trickle charge?  I can understand it noticing a drop in
charging current if the battery is on its own, but what if a random
changing load is connected, as there is in a running car?


the catalytic converter tells it

Peeler
Guest

Fri Jun 21, 2019 10:45 pm   



On Fri, 21 Jun 2019 21:19:05 +0100, Birdbrain Macaw (aka "Commander Kinsey",
"James Wilkinson", "Steven Wanker","Bruce Farquar", "Fred Johnson, etc.),
the pathological resident idiot and attention whore of all the uk ngs,
blathered again:

<FLUSH the sociopathic wanker's latest attention-baiting idiotic bullshit
unread again>


--
damduck-egg_at_yahoo.co.uk about Birdbrain Macaw's (now "James Wilkinson" LOL)
trolling:
"He is a well known attention seeking troll and every reply you
make feeds him.
Starts many threads most of which die quick as on the UK groups anyone
with sense Kill filed him ages ago which is why he now cross posts to
the US groups for a new audience.
This thread was unusual in that it derived and continued without him
to a large extent and his silly questioning is an attempt to get
noticed again."
MID: <be195d5jh0hktj054mvfu7ef9ap854mjdb_at_4ax.com>

--
ItsJoanNotJoann addressing Birdbrain Macaw's (now "James Wilkinson" LOL):
"You're an annoying troll and I'm done with you and your
stupidity."
MID: <e39a6a7f-9677-4e78-a866-0590fe5bbc38_at_googlegroups.com>

--
AndyW addressing Birdbrain:
"Troll or idiot?...
You have been presented with a viewpoint with information, reasoning,
historical cases, citations and references to back it up and wilfully
ignore all going back to your idea which has no supporting information."
MID: <KaToA.263621$g93.262397_at_fx10.am4>

--
Phil Lee adressing Birdbrain Macaw:
"You are too stupid to be wasting oxygen."
MID: <uv2u4clurscpat3g29l7aksbohsassufe2_at_4ax.com>

--
Phil Lee describing Birdbrain Macaw:
"I've never seen such misplaced pride in being a fucking moronic motorist."
MID: <j7fb6ct83igfd1g99rmu4gh9vf610ra3jk_at_4ax.com>

--
Tony944 addressing Birdbrain Macaw:
"I seen and heard many people but you are on top of list being first class
ass hole jerk. ...You fit under unconditional Idiot and should be put in
mental institution.
MID: <VLCdnYC5HK1Z4S3FnZ2dnUU7-dPNnZ2d_at_giganews.com>

--
Pelican to Birdbrain Macaw:
"Ok. I'm persuaded . You are an idiot."
MID: <obru31$nao$3_at_dont-email.me>

--
DerbyDad03 addressing Birdbrain Macaw (now "James Wilkinson" LOL):
"Frigging Idiot. Get the hell out of my thread."
MID: <4d907253-b3b9-40d4-be4d-b32d453937e0_at_googlegroups.com>

--
Kerr Mudd-John about Birdbrain Macaw (now "James Wilkinson" LOL):
"It's like arguing with a demented frog."
MID: <op.yy3c02cqmsr2db_at_dell3100.workgroup>

--
Mr Pounder Esquire about Birdbrain Macaw (now "James Wilkinson" LOL):
"the piss poor delivery boy with no hot running water, 11 cats and
several parrots living in his hovel."
MID: <odqtgc$iug$1_at_dont-email.me>

--
Rob Morley about Birdbrain:
"He's a perennial idiot"
MID: <20170519215057.56a1f1d4_at_Mars>

--
JoeyDee to Birdbrain
"I apologize for thinking you were a jerk. You're just someone with an IQ
lower than your age, and I accept that as a reason for your comments."
MID: <0001HW.1EE2D20300E7BECC700004A512CF_at_news.eternal-september.org>

--
Sam Plusnet about Birdbrain (now "James Wilkinson Sword" LOL):
"He's just desperate to be noticed. Any attention will do, no matter how
negative it may be."
MID: <rOmdndd_O7u8iK7EnZ2dnUU78TGdnZ2d_at_brightview.co.uk>

--
thekmanrocks_at_gmail.com asking Birdbrain:
"What, were you dropped on your head as a child?"
MID: <58ddfad5-d9a5-4031-b91f-1850245a6ed9_at_googlegroups.com>

--
Christie addressing endlessly driveling Birdbrain Macaw (now "James
Wilkinson" LOL):
"What are you resurrecting that old post of mine for? It's from last
month some time. You're like a dog who's just dug up an old bone they
hid in the garden until they were ready to have another go at it."
MID: <59d8b0db.4113512_at_news.eternal-september.org>

--
Mr Pounder's fitting description of Birdbrain Macaw:
"You are a well known fool, a tosser, a pillock, a stupid unemployable
sponging failure who will always live alone and will die alone. You will not
be missed."
MID: <orree6$on2$1_at_dont-email.me>

--
Richard to pathetic wanker Hucker:
"You haven't bred?
Only useful thing you've done in your pathetic existence."
MID: <orvctf$l5m$1_at_gioia.aioe.org>

--
clare_at_snyder.on.ca about Birdbrain (now "James Wilkinson" LOL):
""not the sharpest knife in the drawer"'s parents sure made a serious
mistake having him born alive -- A total waste of oxygen, food, space,
and bandwidth."
MID: <s5e9uclqpnabtehehg3d792tmll73se0g8_at_4ax.com>

--
Mr Pounder exposing sociopathic Birdbrain:
"You will always be a lonely sociopath living in a shithole with no hot
running water with loads of stinking cats and a few parrots."
MID: <os5m1i$8m1$1_at_dont-email.me>

--
francis about Birdbrain (now "James Wilkinson" LOL):
"He seems to have a reputation as someone of limited intelligence"
MID: <cf06cdd9-8bb8-469c-800a-0dfa4c2f9ffa_at_googlegroups.com>

--
Peter Moylan about Birdbrain (now "James Wilkinson" LOL):
"If people like JWS didn't exist, we would have to find some other way to
explain the concept of "invincible ignorance"."
MID: <otofc8$tbg$2_at_dont-email.me>

--
Lewis about nym-shifting Birdbrain:
"Typical narcissist troll, thinks his shit is so grand he has the right to
try to force it on everyone."
MID: <slrnq16c27.1h4g.g.kreme_at_jaka.local>

Rod Speed
Guest

Fri Jun 21, 2019 10:45 pm   



Commander Kinsey <CFKinsey_at_military.org.jp> wrote

Quote:
How does a lead acid battery charger (or car alternator) know when to
switch to trickle charge?


From the current the battery takes.

Quote:
I can understand it noticing a drop in charging current if the battery is
on its own, but what if a random changing load is connected, as there is
in a running car?


You just look at the current going to the battery. The variably
loads like with lights isnt supplied by the battery when the
engine is running, its supplied by the alternator.

Commander Kinsey
Guest

Fri Jun 21, 2019 10:45 pm   



On Fri, 21 Jun 2019 21:54:38 +0100, Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa_at_gmail.com> wrote:

Quote:
Commander Kinsey <CFKinsey_at_military.org.jp> wrote

How does a lead acid battery charger (or car alternator) know when to
switch to trickle charge?

From the current the battery takes.

I can understand it noticing a drop in charging current if the battery is
on its own, but what if a random changing load is connected, as there is
in a running car?

You just look at the current going to the battery. The variably
loads like with lights isnt supplied by the battery when the
engine is running, its supplied by the alternator.


But how can the regulator on the alternator possibly know the current it's passing to the battery is going into the battery and not going straight across to the lights? If you look at the battery in your car, there are two or three thick wires coming off each terminal. One will go to the alternator, another to the fusebox for all the lights etc. Unless there's some clever circuitry monitoring each battery wire individually and subtracting the currents, the alternator can't tell the difference between a battery taking 12 amps, and a battery taking 2 amps plus lights taking 10 amps. The second one requires switching to trickle charge, the first doesn't.

Peeler
Guest

Fri Jun 21, 2019 10:45 pm   



On Sat, 22 Jun 2019 06:54:38 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:


Quote:
You just look at the current going to the battery. The variably
loads like with lights isnt supplied by the battery when the
engine is running, its supplied by the alternator.


Does the unwashed Scottish wanker's taste THAT good, senile Rodent? He'll
certainly climax soon with your help, senile Ozzie cretin! LOL

--
MrTurnip_at_down.the.farm about senile Rot Speed:
"This is like having a conversation with someone with brain damage."
MID: <ps10v9$uo2$1_at_gioia.aioe.org>

Commander Kinsey
Guest

Fri Jun 21, 2019 10:45 pm   



On Fri, 21 Jun 2019 22:18:56 +0100, trader_4 <trader4_at_optonline.net> wrote:

Quote:
On Friday, June 21, 2019 at 4:54:51 PM UTC-4, Rod Speed wrote:
Commander Kinsey <CFKinsey_at_military.org.jp> wrote

How does a lead acid battery charger (or car alternator) know when to
switch to trickle charge?

From the current the battery takes.

Except that the alternator doesn't know how much current is going
into the battery and how much is being used to power the car.
At least not in any car I've had. The alternator is tied directly
to the battery and that common point supplies the car. The alternator
can't switch to trickle charge either. Every one I've seen, with
the car running normally, the voltage at the alternator/battery is
about 13.5 - 14V


I used to think the same, until someone in one of these newsgroups (on another topic about 6 months ago) said it drops the voltage or it would wear out the battery on long journeys. I tested my own car, by leaving the lights on for a bit, then starting it. The voltage was about 14.4. It dropped to 13.8 after the battery was filled up. The regulator must have detected the battery was full somehow and lowered the charging voltage.

Mind you after some googling, apparently a lead acid is happy being charged from 13.8 to 14.5 continuously. Although when I used to leave my car on a charger (an old Bradex car battery charger) at 14.5, it fucked the battery after a few months. Maybe 14.5 is only ok in a car alternator circuit, which isn't usually running 24 hours a day. I think I'll always make sure it's 13.8 if it's on charge all the time - my car tends to randomly lose battery power overnight (to the alarm I believe). I was just wondering if I bought an intelligent car battery charger, whether it would ever switch down to trickle if the alarm was sucking juice, as such a charger may not expect any load. I currently have it connected to a bench supply at 13.8.

Rod Speed
Guest

Fri Jun 21, 2019 11:45 pm   



"Commander Kinsey" <CFKinsey_at_military.org.jp> wrote in message
news:op.z3q6mue3wdg98l_at_desktop-ga2mpl8.lan...
Quote:
On Fri, 21 Jun 2019 21:54:38 +0100, Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa_at_gmail.com
wrote:

Commander Kinsey <CFKinsey_at_military.org.jp> wrote

How does a lead acid battery charger (or car alternator) know when to
switch to trickle charge?

From the current the battery takes.

I can understand it noticing a drop in charging current if the battery
is
on its own, but what if a random changing load is connected, as there is
in a running car?

You just look at the current going to the battery. The variably
loads like with lights isnt supplied by the battery when the
engine is running, its supplied by the alternator.

But how can the regulator on the alternator possibly know the current it's
passing to the battery is going into the battery and not going straight
across to the lights?


The computer knows whats going to the battery and you can see that with an
ODB2 dongle.

Quote:
If you look at the battery in your car, there are two or three thick wires
coming off each terminal. One will go to the alternator, another to the
fusebox for all the lights etc.


And it's the voltage across the one going from the alternator to the battery
that allows the computer to know how much current is going to the battery.

Quote:
Unless there's some clever circuitry monitoring each battery wire
individually and subtracting the currents,


Yes there is, its called the computer.

Quote:
the alternator can't tell the difference between a battery taking 12 amps,
and a battery taking 2 amps plus lights taking 10 amps.


But the computer can. And knows if the lights are on too.

> The second one requires switching to trickle charge, the first doesn't.

Commander Kinsey
Guest

Fri Jun 21, 2019 11:45 pm   



On Fri, 21 Jun 2019 22:57:44 +0100, Max Demian <max_demian_at_bigfoot.com> wrote:

Quote:
On 21/06/2019 21:19, Commander Kinsey wrote:
How does a lead acid battery charger (or car alternator) know when to
switch to trickle charge? I can understand it noticing a drop in
charging current if the battery is on its own, but what if a random
changing load is connected, as there is in a running car?

The voltage perhaps.


Why would the voltage change? That's determined by the alternator or charger. Let's say the charger/alternator gives out 14.4V initially, to charge the battery quickly. It'll just sit at 14.4V forever, providing the charger can give out enough current to charge the slightly flat battery and power any connected loads. If the battery had no loads connected, it would take a lot less current when it became full, but the voltage would stay the same. If the charger monitored the current it was providing, how does it know if the battery is still charging at 10 amps, or if the battery is full and there's a 10 amp load?

Peeler
Guest

Fri Jun 21, 2019 11:45 pm   



On Fri, 21 Jun 2019 22:57:44 +0100, Max Demian, another brain dead,
troll-feeding senile asshole, blathered:


> The voltage perhaps.

What kind of a troll-feeding asshole are YOU?

Max Demian
Guest

Fri Jun 21, 2019 11:45 pm   



On 21/06/2019 21:19, Commander Kinsey wrote:
Quote:
How does a lead acid battery charger (or car alternator) know when to
switch to trickle charge?  I can understand it noticing a drop in
charging current if the battery is on its own, but what if a random
changing load is connected, as there is in a running car?


The voltage perhaps.

--
Max Demian

Colonel Edmund J. Burke
Guest

Sat Jun 22, 2019 12:45 am   



On 6/21/2019 1:19 PM, Commander Kinsey wrote:
> How does a lead acid battery charger (or car alternator) know when to switch to trickle charge?  I can understand it noticing a drop in charging current if the battery is on its own, but what if a random changing load is connected, as there is in a running car?

Alternators are not lead acid.

Commander Kinsey
Guest

Sat Jun 22, 2019 12:45 am   



On Fri, 21 Jun 2019 23:39:34 +0100, Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa_at_gmail.com> wrote:

Quote:


"Commander Kinsey" <CFKinsey_at_military.org.jp> wrote in message
news:op.z3q6mue3wdg98l_at_desktop-ga2mpl8.lan...
On Fri, 21 Jun 2019 21:54:38 +0100, Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa_at_gmail.com
wrote:

Commander Kinsey <CFKinsey_at_military.org.jp> wrote

How does a lead acid battery charger (or car alternator) know when to
switch to trickle charge?

From the current the battery takes.

I can understand it noticing a drop in charging current if the battery
is
on its own, but what if a random changing load is connected, as there is
in a running car?

You just look at the current going to the battery. The variably
loads like with lights isnt supplied by the battery when the
engine is running, its supplied by the alternator.

But how can the regulator on the alternator possibly know the current it's
passing to the battery is going into the battery and not going straight
across to the lights?

The computer knows whats going to the battery and you can see that with an
ODB2 dongle.


My dongle only lists faults.

Quote:
If you look at the battery in your car, there are two or three thick wires
coming off each terminal. One will go to the alternator, another to the
fusebox for all the lights etc.

And it's the voltage across the one going from the alternator to the battery
that allows the computer to know how much current is going to the battery.


Bullshit. How could it possibly know if the current flows into the battery or goes to the other wire leading to the fusebox?

Quote:
Unless there's some clever circuitry monitoring each battery wire
individually and subtracting the currents,

Yes there is, its called the computer.


So what happened with older cars before they did that?

Quote:
the alternator can't tell the difference between a battery taking 12 amps,
and a battery taking 2 amps plus lights taking 10 amps.

But the computer can. And knows if the lights are on too.

The second one requires switching to trickle charge, the first doesn't.


Peeler
Guest

Sat Jun 22, 2019 12:45 am   



On Sat, 22 Jun 2019 08:39:34 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:


> The computer knows

The troll knows how to bait all you senile assholes successfully, senile
asshole!

--
Sqwertz to Rot Speed:
"This is just a hunch, but I'm betting you're kinda an argumentative
asshole.
MID: <ev1p6ml7ywd5$.dlg_at_sqwertz.com>

Rod Speed
Guest

Sat Jun 22, 2019 12:45 am   



"Commander Kinsey" <CFKinsey_at_military.org.jp> wrote in message
news:op.z3q9fvpjwdg98l_at_desktop-ga2mpl8.lan...
Quote:
On Fri, 21 Jun 2019 22:57:44 +0100, Max Demian <max_demian_at_bigfoot.com
wrote:

On 21/06/2019 21:19, Commander Kinsey wrote:
How does a lead acid battery charger (or car alternator) know when to
switch to trickle charge? I can understand it noticing a drop in
charging current if the battery is on its own, but what if a random
changing load is connected, as there is in a running car?

The voltage perhaps.

Why would the voltage change?


That's the way batterys work, the battery voltage does change as its
charged.

> That's determined by the alternator or charger.

Nope.

Quote:
Let's say the charger/alternator gives out 14.4V initially, to charge the
battery quickly. It'll just sit at 14.4V forever, providing the charger
can give out enough current to charge the slightly flat battery and power
any connected loads.


Its more complicated than that with the current going to the battery and the
battery is charged.

Quote:
If the battery had no loads connected, it would take a lot less current
when it became full, but the voltage would stay the same.


No it doesn't even with a very crude battery charger.

Quote:
If the charger monitored the current it was providing, how does it know if
the battery is still charging at 10 amps, or if the battery is full and
there's a 10 amp load?


By checking the current actually being delivered to the battery.

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