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#BoycottEurovision2019
Guest

Sat May 11, 2019 11:45 pm   



RMD wrote:
Quote:
On Wed, 01 May 2019 05:44:52 GMT, rmd_at_invalid.invalid (RMD) wrote:
Hi All,


I've proved this by sticking metal pins into the DC output wires and
connecting an external variable DC power supply to these pins. The
radio then plays again. Currently I'm feeding it 12Volts DC, and the
radio stops working if I wind the voltage down to about 8 volts.

I've soak-tested theis radio with an unregulated 7.5V plugpack, which
puts out 11.2V on standby and 10.5V when the radio is on. The radio is
still working fine after 10 days, mostly operating on standby.


Disregard the open circuit /unloaded voltage reading of plug pack.

The significant values is when its under load, 10.5v which I think is the
"sweet spot" the 'resonant voltage' where the circuit 'hums' along.

Quote:

I've done further experiments on powering this radio. It will actually
work if powered by a regulated 7.5V plug-pack. Testing it with a
regulated variable supply it "stutters" at 7V.

I've ordered on-line a regulated plug-pack with selectable voltages
including 7,5V and 9V. I'll probably operate it on 7.5V unless I need
to boost it to 9V for reliable operation.

I can only find one accessible power supply capacitor, which, looking
with a mirror is 1000uF, but my old eyes are quite unable to see what
the voltage rating is. However, on what voltages I've subjected the
radio to already this electrolytic has handled up to 15V without
failing.

I'm just pleased I've rescued this radio from the e-waste bin. Looking
at the radio more closely, if it was other than the power supply
failure that actually happened, it would be likely impossible to fix

Btw Frontier Radio's former website, where you could register internet
radios and set up personalised station lists, has gone belly-up from
May 7th. The new Frontier Radio site has no facilities for radio
registration or personalised station lists.

Ross


manufacturers have got smart about forcing obsolescence on us by merging
hardware with software/net access & thus making perfectly working hardware
crippled with limited use, or not working at all.

The regulators have been asleep, & let corporations write the rules, as with
bubble jet printers where they sold replacement ink at prices equivalent to
weight in gold . If you tried to bypass it with generic 'colored water' the
chips had to be manipulated to work with generic ink.

now that the damage is done, & they've conned everybody to buy "direct to
landfill" product they've introduced "refillable" ink reservoirs to hook in
the next generation of customers.

Same with apple, what looks like a safety feature is making pallet loads of
iphones unusable because they haven't been properly "decommissioned" when
they
are traded in, and are unable to be resold 2nd hand.

"not all iCloud-locked phones are stolen devices-some of them are phones
that are returned to telecom companies as part of phone upgrade and
insurance programs. The large number of legitimately obtained, iCloud-locked
iPhones helps supply the independent phone repair industry with replacement
parts that cannot be obtained directly from Apple. But naturally, repair
companies know that a phone is worth more unlocked than it is locked, and so
some of them have waded into the hacking underground to become customers of
illegal iCloud unlocking companies."

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/8xyq8v/how-to-unlock-icloud-stolen-iphone

I can see this getting worse, with 5G IOT (internet of things )where every
electronic device will want to 'phone home' via the internet. & if the link
is lost device will stop working after a grace period.

Manufactures will track your oven, fridge, TV, toaster, toothbrush, radio,
camera etc.etc. & notify you that you need to update your hardware.

Computer Nerd Kev
Guest

Sat May 11, 2019 11:45 pm   



RMD <rmd_at_invalid.invalid> wrote:
Quote:
On Thu, 09 May 2019 23:01:35 GMT, rmd_at_invalid.invalid (RMD) wrote:

I can only find one accessible power supply capacitor, which, looking
with a mirror is 1000uF, but my old eyes are quite unable to see what
the voltage rating is. However, on what voltages I've subjected the
radio to already this electrolytic has handled up to 15V without
failing.


I used a small dental mirror and was finally able to work out this
1000uF power supply smoothing capacitor is 16V rated.

Also, feeling around the various other components, which are all in
sealed tinned enclosures, I can't detect any warmth which might
indicate anything is overheating either on standby or while operating.


Sounds like it should be fine.

--
__ __
#_ < |\| |< _#

Clifford Heath
Guest

Sun May 12, 2019 2:45 am   



On 12/5/19 8:26 am, #BoycottEurovision2019 wrote:
Quote:
Clifford Heath wrote:
On 8/5/19 5:19 pm, #BoycottEurovision2019 wrote:
I get the feeling electronics devices will have most of the
'superfluous components' removed and have them integrated into a
handful of chips, & that's it!

Totally impossible to repair.

The trade-off is that by removing most of the components, they've also
removed almost all of the board-level failure modes. I view this
change as almost entirely positive.

The far more common failure modes reflect external hardware, which is
just as vulnerable (but also just as repairable) as it always was. The
reduction in cost from board-level integration has changed the
economics of repair (replacement is cheaper) so the external hardware
also tends to be down-graded - no sense fitting high quality stuff if
it's going to get chucked and replaced anyhow. This is not such a
positive change for the environment.

Clifford Heath

Once the boards are rid of 'superfluous stuff', they'd probable have easier
time extracting valuable metals, when all they're processing is integrated
circuits

"A tonne of mobile phones (about 6,000 handsets), for example, contains
about 130kg of copper, 3.5kg of silver, 340 grams of gold and 140 grams of
palladium, worth tens of thousands of dollars.
https://newsroom.unsw.edu.au/news/science-tech/unsw-microfactories-turn-unwanted-e-waste-valuable-metals


I bet there's a lot less than 13% copper these days. In fact I think
that number was always bogus. Even if they use 1oz copper PCB coating,
that's about 1.5 grammes of copper in a phone that probably weighs
upwards of 200g.

Clifford Heath
Guest

Sun May 12, 2019 3:45 am   



On 12/5/19 11:58 am, news18 wrote:
Quote:
On Sun, 12 May 2019 11:01:20 +1000, Clifford Heath wrote:


I bet there's a lot less than 13% copper these days. In fact I think
that number was always bogus. Even if they use 1oz copper PCB coating,
that's about 1.5 grammes of copper in a phone that probably weighs
upwards of 200g.

The "size" of the coating really depends on the signal currents that are
on the board. Lots of magic smoke been let loose over the decades by
board designers that forgot that.


Do the math, mate. It doesn't add up.

Quote:
However, where the major copper has been is in the wires in components
and increasingly, it is turnng up in heat migtigation devices.


A phone needed that much copper, the battery would only last minutes.

news18
Guest

Sun May 12, 2019 3:45 am   



On Sun, 12 May 2019 11:01:20 +1000, Clifford Heath wrote:


Quote:
I bet there's a lot less than 13% copper these days. In fact I think
that number was always bogus. Even if they use 1oz copper PCB coating,
that's about 1.5 grammes of copper in a phone that probably weighs
upwards of 200g.


The "size" of the coating really depends on the signal currents that are
on the board. Lots of magic smoke been let loose over the decades by
board designers that forgot that.

However, where the major copper has been is in the wires in components
and increasingly, it is turnng up in heat migtigation devices.

news18
Guest

Sun May 12, 2019 3:45 am   



On Sun, 12 May 2019 08:26:24 +1000, #BoycottEurovision2019 wrote:


Quote:
Once the boards are rid of 'superfluous stuff', they'd probable have
easier time extracting valuable metals, when all they're processing is
integrated circuits

"A tonne of mobile phones (about 6,000 handsets), for example, contains
about 130kg of copper, 3.5kg of silver, 340 grams of gold and 140 grams
of palladium, worth tens of thousands of dollars.
https://newsroom.unsw.edu.au/news/science-tech/unsw-microfactories-turn-
unwanted-e-waste-valuable-metals

they just have to perfect the method of recycling & upscale for large
scale processing.


Perfection of the method is running into the limits set by the "laws of
physics"; in this case,the chemical processes/cycles they go through to
produce the end products.

Practically, the $$$(the real driver) isn't there and landfilling is
still prime method. Chicken and egg to make any break
throughs in ther processes.

news18
Guest

Tue May 14, 2019 5:45 am   



On Sun, 12 May 2019 12:05:55 +1000, Clifford Heath wrote:

Quote:
On 12/5/19 11:58 am, news18 wrote:
On Sun, 12 May 2019 11:01:20 +1000, Clifford Heath wrote:


I bet there's a lot less than 13% copper these days. In fact I think
that number was always bogus. Even if they use 1oz copper PCB coating,
that's about 1.5 grammes of copper in a phone that probably weighs
upwards of 200g.

The "size" of the coating really depends on the signal currents that
are on the board. Lots of magic smoke been let loose over the decades
by board designers that forgot that.

Do the math, mate. It doesn't add up.


That been the problem, they didn't do the maths.
Quote:

However, where the major copper has been is in the wires in components
and increasingly, it is turnng up in heat migtigation devices.

A phone needed that much copper, the battery would only last minutes.

Well, i've never deconstructed any 'mobile phone', but in everything
elsea I'v "deconstructed", my comment is true.

keithr0
Guest

Tue May 14, 2019 10:45 am   



On 5/12/2019 8:29 AM, #BoycottEurovision2019 wrote:
Quote:
RMD wrote:
On Wed, 01 May 2019 05:44:52 GMT, rmd_at_invalid.invalid (RMD) wrote:
Hi All,


I've proved this by sticking metal pins into the DC output wires and
connecting an external variable DC power supply to these pins. The
radio then plays again. Currently I'm feeding it 12Volts DC, and the
radio stops working if I wind the voltage down to about 8 volts.

I've soak-tested theis radio with an unregulated 7.5V plugpack, which
puts out 11.2V on standby and 10.5V when the radio is on. The radio is
still working fine after 10 days, mostly operating on standby.

Disregard the open circuit /unloaded voltage reading of plug pack.

The significant values is when its under load, 10.5v which I think is the
"sweet spot" the 'resonant voltage' where the circuit 'hums' along.


"Resonant voltage" I worked in electronics for 50 odd years but that's a
new one on me.

#BoycottEurovision2019
Guest

Wed May 15, 2019 4:45 am   



keithr0 wrote:
Quote:
On 5/12/2019 8:29 AM, #BoycottEurovision2019 wrote:
RMD wrote:
On Wed, 01 May 2019 05:44:52 GMT, rmd_at_invalid.invalid (RMD) wrote:
Hi All,


I've proved this by sticking metal pins into the DC output wires
and connecting an external variable DC power supply to these pins.
The radio then plays again. Currently I'm feeding it 12Volts DC,
and the radio stops working if I wind the voltage down to about 8
volts.

I've soak-tested theis radio with an unregulated 7.5V plugpack,
which puts out 11.2V on standby and 10.5V when the radio is on. The
radio is still working fine after 10 days, mostly operating on
standby.

Disregard the open circuit /unloaded voltage reading of plug pack.

The significant values is when its under load, 10.5v which I think
is the "sweet spot" the 'resonant voltage' where the circuit 'hums'
along.

"Resonant voltage" I worked in electronics for 50 odd years but
that's a new one on me.


get with the program grandpa , it's what the hip young kids call it these
days!

Its more "descriptive " than "technical" term, what about "operating
voltage"?

#BoycottEurovision2019
Guest

Wed May 15, 2019 11:45 pm   



#BoycottEurovision2019 wrote:
Quote:
RMD wrote:
On Wed, 01 May 2019 05:44:52 GMT, rmd_at_invalid.invalid (RMD) wrote:
snip


Quote:
I'm just pleased I've rescued this radio from the e-waste bin.
Looking at the radio more closely, if it was other than the power
supply failure that actually happened, it would be likely impossible
to fix Btw Frontier Radio's former website, where you could register
internet radios and set up personalised station lists, has gone
belly-up from May 7th. The new Frontier Radio site has no facilities
for radio registration or personalised station lists.

Ross

manufacturers have got smart about forcing obsolescence on us by
merging hardware with software/net access & thus making perfectly
working hardware crippled with limited use, or not working at all.

The regulators have been asleep, & let corporations write the rules,
as with bubble jet printers where they sold replacement ink at prices
equivalent to weight in gold . If you tried to bypass it with generic
'colored water' the chips had to be manipulated to work with generic
ink.
now that the damage is done, & they've conned everybody to buy
"direct to landfill" product they've introduced "refillable" ink
reservoirs to hook in the next generation of customers.

Same with apple, what looks like a safety feature is making pallet
loads of iphones unusable because they haven't been properly
"decommissioned" when they
are traded in, and are unable to be resold 2nd hand.

"not all iCloud-locked phones are stolen devices-some of them are
phones that are returned to telecom companies as part of phone
upgrade and insurance programs. The large number of legitimately
obtained, iCloud-locked iPhones helps supply the independent phone
repair industry with replacement parts that cannot be obtained
directly from Apple. But naturally, repair companies know that a
phone is worth more unlocked than it is locked, and so some of them
have waded into the hacking underground to become customers of
illegal iCloud unlocking companies."
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/8xyq8v/how-to-unlock-icloud-stolen-iphone

I can see this getting worse, with 5G IOT (internet of things )where
every electronic device will want to 'phone home' via the internet. &
if the link is lost device will stop working after a grace period.

Manufactures will track your oven, fridge, TV, toaster, toothbrush,
radio, camera etc.etc. & notify you that you need to update your
hardware.


in one fell swoop google (Googification) have busted all bunch
of HW/SW linked devices by re-branding.

"I'm sure there are "Works with Nest" ecosystem users out there that bought
products specifically because they "Worked with Nest." When the service
shuts down in August, it sounds like all of those (probably expensive)
third-party smart home products will stop working with any Nest-based
automation workflows. This mandatory feature removal situation is pretty
much a smart home owner's worst nightmare.

Nest-branded products will continue to work with each other, but since
"Works with Nest" was a program that let other services talk to Nest, a lot
of third-party integrations will be going away. The Verge has a good rundown
of just how many services are going to break, and it's a brutal who's who of
smart home products. Amazon Alexa, Philips Hue, IFTTT, Logitech Harmony,
Lutron lights, August Home, and Wemo switches will all be affected."

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2019/05/nest-the-company-died-at-google-io-2019/

keithr0
Guest

Thu May 16, 2019 8:45 am   



On 5/15/2019 1:02 PM, #BoycottEurovision2019 wrote:
Quote:
keithr0 wrote:
On 5/12/2019 8:29 AM, #BoycottEurovision2019 wrote:
RMD wrote:
On Wed, 01 May 2019 05:44:52 GMT, rmd_at_invalid.invalid (RMD) wrote:
Hi All,


I've proved this by sticking metal pins into the DC output wires
and connecting an external variable DC power supply to these pins.
The radio then plays again. Currently I'm feeding it 12Volts DC,
and the radio stops working if I wind the voltage down to about 8
volts.

I've soak-tested theis radio with an unregulated 7.5V plugpack,
which puts out 11.2V on standby and 10.5V when the radio is on. The
radio is still working fine after 10 days, mostly operating on
standby.

Disregard the open circuit /unloaded voltage reading of plug pack.

The significant values is when its under load, 10.5v which I think
is the "sweet spot" the 'resonant voltage' where the circuit 'hums'
along.

"Resonant voltage" I worked in electronics for 50 odd years but
that's a new one on me.

get with the program grandpa , it's what the hip young kids call it these
days!


Sonny, I was hip before your mummy and daddy even met.

Quote:
Its more "descriptive " than "technical" term, what about "operating
voltage"?


It's not even descriptive - look up the meaning of resonance. The phrase
"Optimum voltage" would be both descriptively and technically correct

#BoycottEurovision2019
Guest

Fri May 17, 2019 1:45 am   



keithr0 wrote:
Quote:
On 5/15/2019 1:02 PM, #BoycottEurovision2019 wrote:
keithr0 wrote:
On 5/12/2019 8:29 AM, #BoycottEurovision2019 wrote:
RMD wrote:
On Wed, 01 May 2019 05:44:52 GMT, rmd_at_invalid.invalid (RMD) wrote:
Hi All,


I've proved this by sticking metal pins into the DC output wires
and connecting an external variable DC power supply to these
pins. The radio then plays again. Currently I'm feeding it
12Volts DC, and the radio stops working if I wind the voltage
down to about 8 volts.

I've soak-tested theis radio with an unregulated 7.5V plugpack,
which puts out 11.2V on standby and 10.5V when the radio is on.
The radio is still working fine after 10 days, mostly operating on
standby.

Disregard the open circuit /unloaded voltage reading of plug pack.

The significant values is when its under load, 10.5v which I think
is the "sweet spot" the 'resonant voltage' where the circuit 'hums'
along.

"Resonant voltage" I worked in electronics for 50 odd years but
that's a new one on me.

get with the program grandpa , it's what the hip young kids call it
these days!

Sonny, I was hip before your mummy and daddy even met.

Its more "descriptive " than "technical" term, what about "operating
voltage"?

It's not even descriptive - look up the meaning of resonance. The
phrase "Optimum voltage" would be both descriptively and technically
correct


"Optimum voltage" is ok with me.

I was thinking of a "tuned RLC circuit" that have terms like
"Resonant Frequency" & "Series Resonance".
https://www.electronics-tutorials.ws/accircuits/series-resonance.html

the term *Resonant voltage* does exist & is used in other instances, e.g.

This diode has a *resonant voltage* for which there is a lot of current
that favors a particular voltage, achieved by placing two very thin layers
with a high energy conductance band very near each other.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_tunnelling#Tunnel_diode

And

*resonant voltage* step-up

Ability of an inductor and a capacitor in a series resonant circuit to
deliver a voltage several times greater than the input voltage of the
circuit.
https://encyclopedia2.thefreedictionary.com/resonant+voltage+step-up

And

What is *VOLTAGE RESONANCE* ?
Condition of a circuit when the magnitude of a voltage passes through the
maximum as the frequency is changed
https://thesciencedictionary.org/voltage-resonance/

as I said it was "descriptive" since technically we're not discussing "RLC
circuits"

I stumbled upon a better word to describe being "in harmony with the
environment "

syntony
noun
Definition of syntony

1 : the state of being normally responsive to and in harmony with the
environment
2 : resonance sense 1b(2)
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/syntony

keithr0
Guest

Fri May 17, 2019 11:45 am   



On 5/17/2019 10:39 AM, #BoycottEurovision2019 wrote:
Quote:
keithr0 wrote:
On 5/15/2019 1:02 PM, #BoycottEurovision2019 wrote:
keithr0 wrote:
On 5/12/2019 8:29 AM, #BoycottEurovision2019 wrote:
RMD wrote:
On Wed, 01 May 2019 05:44:52 GMT, rmd_at_invalid.invalid (RMD) wrote:
Hi All,


I've proved this by sticking metal pins into the DC output wires
and connecting an external variable DC power supply to these
pins. The radio then plays again. Currently I'm feeding it
12Volts DC, and the radio stops working if I wind the voltage
down to about 8 volts.

I've soak-tested theis radio with an unregulated 7.5V plugpack,
which puts out 11.2V on standby and 10.5V when the radio is on.
The radio is still working fine after 10 days, mostly operating on
standby.

Disregard the open circuit /unloaded voltage reading of plug pack.

The significant values is when its under load, 10.5v which I think
is the "sweet spot" the 'resonant voltage' where the circuit 'hums'
along.

"Resonant voltage" I worked in electronics for 50 odd years but
that's a new one on me.

get with the program grandpa , it's what the hip young kids call it
these days!

Sonny, I was hip before your mummy and daddy even met.

Its more "descriptive " than "technical" term, what about "operating
voltage"?

It's not even descriptive - look up the meaning of resonance. The
phrase "Optimum voltage" would be both descriptively and technically
correct

"Optimum voltage" is ok with me.

I was thinking of a "tuned RLC circuit" that have terms like
"Resonant Frequency" & "Series Resonance".
https://www.electronics-tutorials.ws/accircuits/series-resonance.html


That is in the frequency domain not the voltage one

Quote:
the term *Resonant voltage* does exist & is used in other instances, e.g.

This diode has a *resonant voltage* for which there is a lot of current
that favors a particular voltage, achieved by placing two very thin layers
with a high energy conductance band very near each other.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_tunnelling#Tunnel_diode


Thats quantum resonance, from an electronics point of view, the diode
has an area of negative resistance at a particular voltage. Using that
you can make a very simple oscillator or low power FM transmitter.

Quote:
And

*resonant voltage* step-up

Ability of an inductor and a capacitor in a series resonant circuit to
deliver a voltage several times greater than the input voltage of the
circuit.
https://encyclopedia2.thefreedictionary.com/resonant+voltage+step-up


Still a function of frequency not voltage, that is an effect not the cause.

Quote:
And

What is *VOLTAGE RESONANCE* ?
Condition of a circuit when the magnitude of a voltage passes through the
maximum as the frequency is changed
https://thesciencedictionary.org/voltage-resonance/


The resonance is still a function of frequency, the change in voltage is
simply an effect of frequency resonance.

Quote:
as I said it was "descriptive" since technically we're not discussing "RLC
circuits"


RLC circuits are where resonance is relevant - in electronics at least

Quote:
I stumbled upon a better word to describe being "in harmony with the
environment "

syntony
noun
Definition of syntony

1 : the state of being normally responsive to and in harmony with the
environment
2 : resonance sense 1b(2)
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/syntony


You could use that word if you wish to be particularly pseud, but most
people would understand and use optimum.

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