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Guest
Sun Jan 15, 2012 6:57 pm
Hi all, (happy new year BTW)
How are 74xx chips made these days? Just the same old masks as 30
years ago, or are they die-shrunk along with everything else? I doubt
manufacturers keep vintage equipment going just to make old ICs, and I
also don't think the die is the same size.
If I crack open a 30 year old 7400 and a recent one, will the die be
the same size?
What are the chances that modern 74xx devices are actually a single
CPLD that's programmed at the factory to act like a 7400 or 7406?
Just daydreaming here.
TIA
petrus bitbyter
Guest
Guest
Sun Jan 15, 2012 7:21 pm
<a7yvm109gf5d1_at_netzero.com> schreef in bericht
news:a76c9327-b45c-4fb0-8217-fc0e5af61f2d_at_m20g2000vbf.googlegroups.com...
Quote:
Hi all, (happy new year BTW)
How are 74xx chips made these days? Just the same old masks as 30
years ago, or are they die-shrunk along with everything else? I doubt
manufacturers keep vintage equipment going just to make old ICs, and I
also don't think the die is the same size.
If I crack open a 30 year old 7400 and a recent one, will the die be
the same size?
What are the chances that modern 74xx devices are actually a single
CPLD that's programmed at the factory to act like a 7400 or 7406?
Just daydreaming here.
TIA
How are 74xx chips made these days? Just the same old masks as 30
years ago, or are they die-shrunk along with everything else? I doubt
manufacturers keep vintage equipment going just to make old ICs, and I
also don't think the die is the same size.
If I crack open a 30 year old 7400 and a recent one, will the die be
the same size?
What are the chances that modern 74xx devices are actually a single
CPLD that's programmed at the factory to act like a 7400 or 7406?
Just daydreaming here.
TIA
Recent one? Standard TTL is obsolete for years by now and FAIK it is not
produced anywhere anymore.
petrus bitbyter
hamilton
Guest
Guest
Sun Jan 15, 2012 9:31 pm
On 1/15/2012 11:21 AM, petrus bitbyter wrote:
Quote:
a7yvm109gf5d1_at_netzero.com> schreef in bericht
news:a76c9327-b45c-4fb0-8217-fc0e5af61f2d_at_m20g2000vbf.googlegroups.com...
Hi all, (happy new year BTW)
How are 74xx chips made these days? Just the same old masks as 30
years ago, or are they die-shrunk along with everything else? I doubt
manufacturers keep vintage equipment going just to make old ICs, and I
also don't think the die is the same size.
If I crack open a 30 year old 7400 and a recent one, will the die be
the same size?
What are the chances that modern 74xx devices are actually a single
CPLD that's programmed at the factory to act like a 7400 or 7406?
Just daydreaming here.
TIA
Recent one? Standard TTL is obsolete for years by now and FAIK it is not
produced anywhere anymore.
news:a76c9327-b45c-4fb0-8217-fc0e5af61f2d_at_m20g2000vbf.googlegroups.com...
Hi all, (happy new year BTW)
How are 74xx chips made these days? Just the same old masks as 30
years ago, or are they die-shrunk along with everything else? I doubt
manufacturers keep vintage equipment going just to make old ICs, and I
also don't think the die is the same size.
If I crack open a 30 year old 7400 and a recent one, will the die be
the same size?
What are the chances that modern 74xx devices are actually a single
CPLD that's programmed at the factory to act like a 7400 or 7406?
Just daydreaming here.
TIA
Recent one? Standard TTL is obsolete for years by now and FAIK it is not
produced anywhere anymore.
Go over to Digikey.com and enter 74ls into the search box.
Maybe not as many as a few years ago, but still hundreds of parts still
available.
And Digikey only sells what is currently available.
don
Quote:
petrus bitbyter
krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz
Guest
Guest
Mon Jan 16, 2012 1:35 am
On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 13:31:30 -0700, hamilton <hamilton_at_nothere.com> wrote:
Quote:
On 1/15/2012 11:21 AM, petrus bitbyter wrote:
a7yvm109gf5d1_at_netzero.com> schreef in bericht
news:a76c9327-b45c-4fb0-8217-fc0e5af61f2d_at_m20g2000vbf.googlegroups.com...
Hi all, (happy new year BTW)
How are 74xx chips made these days? Just the same old masks as 30
years ago, or are they die-shrunk along with everything else? I doubt
manufacturers keep vintage equipment going just to make old ICs, and I
also don't think the die is the same size.
If I crack open a 30 year old 7400 and a recent one, will the die be
the same size?
What are the chances that modern 74xx devices are actually a single
CPLD that's programmed at the factory to act like a 7400 or 7406?
Just daydreaming here.
TIA
Recent one? Standard TTL is obsolete for years by now and FAIK it is not
produced anywhere anymore.
Go over to Digikey.com and enter 74ls into the search box.
a7yvm109gf5d1_at_netzero.com> schreef in bericht
news:a76c9327-b45c-4fb0-8217-fc0e5af61f2d_at_m20g2000vbf.googlegroups.com...
Hi all, (happy new year BTW)
How are 74xx chips made these days? Just the same old masks as 30
years ago, or are they die-shrunk along with everything else? I doubt
manufacturers keep vintage equipment going just to make old ICs, and I
also don't think the die is the same size.
If I crack open a 30 year old 7400 and a recent one, will the die be
the same size?
What are the chances that modern 74xx devices are actually a single
CPLD that's programmed at the factory to act like a 7400 or 7406?
Just daydreaming here.
TIA
Recent one? Standard TTL is obsolete for years by now and FAIK it is not
produced anywhere anymore.
Go over to Digikey.com and enter 74ls into the search box.
LS is not "standard TTL".
It's SDTL.
Quote:
Maybe not as many as a few years ago, but still hundreds of parts still
available.
available.
I note that they do carry some 74xx stuff but at a buck a pop tells me they're
obsolete.
>And Digikey only sells what is currently available.
petrus bitbyter
Guest
Guest
Mon Jan 16, 2012 12:21 pm
"hamilton" <hamilton_at_nothere.com> schreef in bericht
news:jevd34$mk6$2_at_dont-email.me...
Quote:
On 1/15/2012 11:21 AM, petrus bitbyter wrote:
a7yvm109gf5d1_at_netzero.com> schreef in bericht
news:a76c9327-b45c-4fb0-8217-fc0e5af61f2d_at_m20g2000vbf.googlegroups.com...
Hi all, (happy new year BTW)
How are 74xx chips made these days? Just the same old masks as 30
years ago, or are they die-shrunk along with everything else? I doubt
manufacturers keep vintage equipment going just to make old ICs, and I
also don't think the die is the same size.
If I crack open a 30 year old 7400 and a recent one, will the die be
the same size?
What are the chances that modern 74xx devices are actually a single
CPLD that's programmed at the factory to act like a 7400 or 7406?
Just daydreaming here.
TIA
Recent one? Standard TTL is obsolete for years by now and FAIK it is not
produced anywhere anymore.
Go over to Digikey.com and enter 74ls into the search box.
Maybe not as many as a few years ago, but still hundreds of parts still
available.
And Digikey only sells what is currently available.
don
petrus bitbyter
a7yvm109gf5d1_at_netzero.com> schreef in bericht
news:a76c9327-b45c-4fb0-8217-fc0e5af61f2d_at_m20g2000vbf.googlegroups.com...
Hi all, (happy new year BTW)
How are 74xx chips made these days? Just the same old masks as 30
years ago, or are they die-shrunk along with everything else? I doubt
manufacturers keep vintage equipment going just to make old ICs, and I
also don't think the die is the same size.
If I crack open a 30 year old 7400 and a recent one, will the die be
the same size?
What are the chances that modern 74xx devices are actually a single
CPLD that's programmed at the factory to act like a 7400 or 7406?
Just daydreaming here.
TIA
Recent one? Standard TTL is obsolete for years by now and FAIK it is not
produced anywhere anymore.
Go over to Digikey.com and enter 74ls into the search box.
Maybe not as many as a few years ago, but still hundreds of parts still
available.
And Digikey only sells what is currently available.
don
petrus bitbyter
Standard TTL are the parts numbered SN74xx or some SN74xxx and equivalents.
The parts numbered SN74LSxx are LOW POWER Schottky TTL. Most of them are
still widely available.
petrus bitbyter
John Devereux
Guest
Guest
Mon Jan 16, 2012 12:50 pm
"petrus bitbyter" <petrus.bitbyter_at_hotmail.com> writes:
Quote:
"hamilton" <hamilton_at_nothere.com> schreef in bericht
news:jevd34$mk6$2_at_dont-email.me...
On 1/15/2012 11:21 AM, petrus bitbyter wrote:
a7yvm109gf5d1_at_netzero.com> schreef in bericht
news:a76c9327-b45c-4fb0-8217-fc0e5af61f2d_at_m20g2000vbf.googlegroups.com...
Hi all, (happy new year BTW)
How are 74xx chips made these days? Just the same old masks as 30
years ago, or are they die-shrunk along with everything else? I doubt
manufacturers keep vintage equipment going just to make old ICs, and I
also don't think the die is the same size.
If I crack open a 30 year old 7400 and a recent one, will the die be
the same size?
What are the chances that modern 74xx devices are actually a single
CPLD that's programmed at the factory to act like a 7400 or 7406?
Just daydreaming here.
TIA
Recent one? Standard TTL is obsolete for years by now and FAIK it is not
produced anywhere anymore.
Go over to Digikey.com and enter 74ls into the search box.
Maybe not as many as a few years ago, but still hundreds of parts still
available.
And Digikey only sells what is currently available.
don
petrus bitbyter
Standard TTL are the parts numbered SN74xx or some SN74xxx and equivalents.
The parts numbered SN74LSxx are LOW POWER Schottky TTL. Most of them are
still widely available.
news:jevd34$mk6$2_at_dont-email.me...
On 1/15/2012 11:21 AM, petrus bitbyter wrote:
a7yvm109gf5d1_at_netzero.com> schreef in bericht
news:a76c9327-b45c-4fb0-8217-fc0e5af61f2d_at_m20g2000vbf.googlegroups.com...
Hi all, (happy new year BTW)
How are 74xx chips made these days? Just the same old masks as 30
years ago, or are they die-shrunk along with everything else? I doubt
manufacturers keep vintage equipment going just to make old ICs, and I
also don't think the die is the same size.
If I crack open a 30 year old 7400 and a recent one, will the die be
the same size?
What are the chances that modern 74xx devices are actually a single
CPLD that's programmed at the factory to act like a 7400 or 7406?
Just daydreaming here.
TIA
Recent one? Standard TTL is obsolete for years by now and FAIK it is not
produced anywhere anymore.
Go over to Digikey.com and enter 74ls into the search box.
Maybe not as many as a few years ago, but still hundreds of parts still
available.
And Digikey only sells what is currently available.
don
petrus bitbyter
Standard TTL are the parts numbered SN74xx or some SN74xxx and equivalents.
The parts numbered SN74LSxx are LOW POWER Schottky TTL. Most of them are
still widely available.
Of course these days the "jellybean" equivalent parts tend to be low
voltage types like 74LV14 or 74LVC14 (with about 20 different families
to choose from...).
And 74HC and HCT are still very popular and useful.
And no, none of them are based on CPLDs!
Having said that there are some "configurable" single gate parts that
change gate function depending on some pin selections. Never had a use
for one of those.
--
John Devereux
Phil Hobbs
Guest
Guest
Mon Jan 16, 2012 4:55 pm
On 01/16/2012 06:21 AM, petrus bitbyter wrote:
Quote:
"hamilton"<hamilton_at_nothere.com> schreef in bericht
news:jevd34$mk6$2_at_dont-email.me...
On 1/15/2012 11:21 AM, petrus bitbyter wrote:
a7yvm109gf5d1_at_netzero.com> schreef in bericht
news:a76c9327-b45c-4fb0-8217-fc0e5af61f2d_at_m20g2000vbf.googlegroups.com...
Hi all, (happy new year BTW)
How are 74xx chips made these days? Just the same old masks as 30
years ago, or are they die-shrunk along with everything else? I doubt
manufacturers keep vintage equipment going just to make old ICs, and I
also don't think the die is the same size.
If I crack open a 30 year old 7400 and a recent one, will the die be
the same size?
What are the chances that modern 74xx devices are actually a single
CPLD that's programmed at the factory to act like a 7400 or 7406?
Just daydreaming here.
TIA
Recent one? Standard TTL is obsolete for years by now and FAIK it is not
produced anywhere anymore.
Go over to Digikey.com and enter 74ls into the search box.
Maybe not as many as a few years ago, but still hundreds of parts still
available.
And Digikey only sells what is currently available.
don
petrus bitbyter
Standard TTL are the parts numbered SN74xx or some SN74xxx and equivalents.
The parts numbered SN74LSxx are LOW POWER Schottky TTL. Most of them are
still widely available.
petrus bitbyter
There are still some more specialized original TTL parts, especially the
news:jevd34$mk6$2_at_dont-email.me...
On 1/15/2012 11:21 AM, petrus bitbyter wrote:
a7yvm109gf5d1_at_netzero.com> schreef in bericht
news:a76c9327-b45c-4fb0-8217-fc0e5af61f2d_at_m20g2000vbf.googlegroups.com...
Hi all, (happy new year BTW)
How are 74xx chips made these days? Just the same old masks as 30
years ago, or are they die-shrunk along with everything else? I doubt
manufacturers keep vintage equipment going just to make old ICs, and I
also don't think the die is the same size.
If I crack open a 30 year old 7400 and a recent one, will the die be
the same size?
What are the chances that modern 74xx devices are actually a single
CPLD that's programmed at the factory to act like a 7400 or 7406?
Just daydreaming here.
TIA
Recent one? Standard TTL is obsolete for years by now and FAIK it is not
produced anywhere anymore.
Go over to Digikey.com and enter 74ls into the search box.
Maybe not as many as a few years ago, but still hundreds of parts still
available.
And Digikey only sells what is currently available.
don
petrus bitbyter
Standard TTL are the parts numbered SN74xx or some SN74xxx and equivalents.
The parts numbered SN74LSxx are LOW POWER Schottky TTL. Most of them are
still widely available.
petrus bitbyter
There are still some more specialized original TTL parts, especially the
ones with higher drive, e.g. the SN7406 OC inverter/driver. There was a
time back in the 80s when it still made sense to use old TTL for that
sort of job, because the LS ones were too wimpy. I suspect that it's
mostly repair and maybe residual production of those sorts of gizmos
that keeps old TTL going.
Cheers
Phil Hobbs
--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
160 North State Road #203
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510
845-480-2058
hobbs at electrooptical dot net
http://electrooptical.net
Phil Hobbs
Guest
Guest
Mon Jan 16, 2012 6:11 pm
Bill Sloman wrote:
Quote:
On Jan 16, 4:55 pm, Phil Hobbs
pcdhSpamMeSensel...@electrooptical.net> wrote:
On 01/16/2012 06:21 AM, petrus bitbyter wrote:
"hamilton"<hamil...@nothere.com> schreef in bericht
news:jevd34$mk6$2_at_dont-email.me...
On 1/15/2012 11:21 AM, petrus bitbyter wrote:
a7yvm109gf...@netzero.com> schreef in bericht
news:a76c9327-b45c-4fb0-8217-fc0e5af61f2d_at_m20g2000vbf.googlegroups.com...
Hi all, (happy new year BTW)
How are 74xx chips made these days? Just the same old masks as 30
years ago, or are they die-shrunk along with everything else? I doubt
manufacturers keep vintage equipment going just to make old ICs, and I
also don't think the die is the same size.
If I crack open a 30 year old 7400 and a recent one, will the die be
the same size?
What are the chances that modern 74xx devices are actually a single
CPLD that's programmed at the factory to act like a 7400 or 7406?
Just daydreaming here.
TIA
Recent one? Standard TTL is obsolete for years by now and FAIK it is not
produced anywhere anymore.
Go over to Digikey.com and enter 74ls into the search box.
Maybe not as many as a few years ago, but still hundreds of parts still
available.
And Digikey only sells what is currently available.
don
petrus bitbyter
Standard TTL are the parts numbered SN74xx or some SN74xxx and equivalents.
The parts numbered SN74LSxx are LOW POWER Schottky TTL. Most of them are
still widely available.
There are still some more specialized original TTL parts, especially the
ones with higher drive, e.g. the SN7406 OC inverter/driver. There was a
time back in the 80s when it still made sense to use old TTL for that
sort of job, because the LS ones were too wimpy. I suspect that it's
mostly repair and maybe residual production of those sorts of gizmos
that keeps old TTL going.
As with the 555 - legacy designs and legacy designers, plus the
occasional good fit in an odd situation.
--
Bill Sloman, Nijmegen
I usually associate the word "legacy" with good things, such as a
long-lost uncle leaving me lots of money.
If one happens to need a moderately quick (20 ns) part that will drive
six 30V, 40 mA loads, one could do a lot worse than a thirty-cent 7406.
Other driver parts such as a ULN2003 Darlington are about the same
price, and much much slower, though of course relays and solenoids don't
care. (Of course if the pick-and-place costs are low enough, six
2N7002s could be better and cheaper than either.)
Cheers
Phil Hobbs
--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
160 North State Road #203
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510
845-480-2058
hobbs at electrooptical dot net
http://electrooptical.net
Bill Sloman
Guest
Guest
Mon Jan 16, 2012 6:38 pm
On Jan 16, 4:55 pm, Phil Hobbs
<pcdhSpamMeSensel...@electrooptical.net> wrote:
Quote:
On 01/16/2012 06:21 AM, petrus bitbyter wrote:
"hamilton"<hamil...@nothere.com> schreef in bericht
news:jevd34$mk6$2_at_dont-email.me...
On 1/15/2012 11:21 AM, petrus bitbyter wrote:
a7yvm109gf...@netzero.com> schreef in bericht
news:a76c9327-b45c-4fb0-8217-fc0e5af61f2d_at_m20g2000vbf.googlegroups.com....
Hi all, (happy new year BTW)
How are 74xx chips made these days? Just the same old masks as 30
years ago, or are they die-shrunk along with everything else? I doubt
manufacturers keep vintage equipment going just to make old ICs, and I
also don't think the die is the same size.
If I crack open a 30 year old 7400 and a recent one, will the die be
the same size?
What are the chances that modern 74xx devices are actually a single
CPLD that's programmed at the factory to act like a 7400 or 7406?
Just daydreaming here.
TIA
Recent one? Standard TTL is obsolete for years by now and FAIK it is not
produced anywhere anymore.
Go over to Digikey.com and enter 74ls into the search box.
Maybe not as many as a few years ago, but still hundreds of parts still
available.
And Digikey only sells what is currently available.
don
petrus bitbyter
Standard TTL are the parts numbered SN74xx or some SN74xxx and equivalents.
The parts numbered SN74LSxx are LOW POWER Schottky TTL. Most of them are
still widely available.
There are still some more specialized original TTL parts, especially the
ones with higher drive, e.g. the SN7406 OC inverter/driver. There was a
time back in the 80s when it still made sense to use old TTL for that
sort of job, because the LS ones were too wimpy. I suspect that it's
mostly repair and maybe residual production of those sorts of gizmos
that keeps old TTL going.
"hamilton"<hamil...@nothere.com> schreef in bericht
news:jevd34$mk6$2_at_dont-email.me...
On 1/15/2012 11:21 AM, petrus bitbyter wrote:
a7yvm109gf...@netzero.com> schreef in bericht
news:a76c9327-b45c-4fb0-8217-fc0e5af61f2d_at_m20g2000vbf.googlegroups.com....
Hi all, (happy new year BTW)
How are 74xx chips made these days? Just the same old masks as 30
years ago, or are they die-shrunk along with everything else? I doubt
manufacturers keep vintage equipment going just to make old ICs, and I
also don't think the die is the same size.
If I crack open a 30 year old 7400 and a recent one, will the die be
the same size?
What are the chances that modern 74xx devices are actually a single
CPLD that's programmed at the factory to act like a 7400 or 7406?
Just daydreaming here.
TIA
Recent one? Standard TTL is obsolete for years by now and FAIK it is not
produced anywhere anymore.
Go over to Digikey.com and enter 74ls into the search box.
Maybe not as many as a few years ago, but still hundreds of parts still
available.
And Digikey only sells what is currently available.
don
petrus bitbyter
Standard TTL are the parts numbered SN74xx or some SN74xxx and equivalents.
The parts numbered SN74LSxx are LOW POWER Schottky TTL. Most of them are
still widely available.
There are still some more specialized original TTL parts, especially the
ones with higher drive, e.g. the SN7406 OC inverter/driver. There was a
time back in the 80s when it still made sense to use old TTL for that
sort of job, because the LS ones were too wimpy. I suspect that it's
mostly repair and maybe residual production of those sorts of gizmos
that keeps old TTL going.
As with the 555 - legacy designs and legacy designers, plus the
occasional good fit in an odd situation.
--
Bill Sloman, Nijmegen
John Larkin
Guest
Guest
Mon Jan 16, 2012 6:39 pm
On Mon, 16 Jan 2012 12:11:39 -0500, Phil Hobbs
<pcdhSpamMeSenseless_at_electrooptical.net> wrote:
Quote:
Bill Sloman wrote:
On Jan 16, 4:55 pm, Phil Hobbs
pcdhSpamMeSensel...@electrooptical.net> wrote:
On 01/16/2012 06:21 AM, petrus bitbyter wrote:
"hamilton"<hamil...@nothere.com> schreef in bericht
news:jevd34$mk6$2_at_dont-email.me...
On 1/15/2012 11:21 AM, petrus bitbyter wrote:
a7yvm109gf...@netzero.com> schreef in bericht
news:a76c9327-b45c-4fb0-8217-fc0e5af61f2d_at_m20g2000vbf.googlegroups.com...
Hi all, (happy new year BTW)
How are 74xx chips made these days? Just the same old masks as 30
years ago, or are they die-shrunk along with everything else? I doubt
manufacturers keep vintage equipment going just to make old ICs, and I
also don't think the die is the same size.
If I crack open a 30 year old 7400 and a recent one, will the die be
the same size?
What are the chances that modern 74xx devices are actually a single
CPLD that's programmed at the factory to act like a 7400 or 7406?
Just daydreaming here.
TIA
Recent one? Standard TTL is obsolete for years by now and FAIK it is not
produced anywhere anymore.
Go over to Digikey.com and enter 74ls into the search box.
Maybe not as many as a few years ago, but still hundreds of parts still
available.
And Digikey only sells what is currently available.
don
petrus bitbyter
Standard TTL are the parts numbered SN74xx or some SN74xxx and equivalents.
The parts numbered SN74LSxx are LOW POWER Schottky TTL. Most of them are
still widely available.
There are still some more specialized original TTL parts, especially the
ones with higher drive, e.g. the SN7406 OC inverter/driver. There was a
time back in the 80s when it still made sense to use old TTL for that
sort of job, because the LS ones were too wimpy. I suspect that it's
mostly repair and maybe residual production of those sorts of gizmos
that keeps old TTL going.
As with the 555 - legacy designs and legacy designers, plus the
occasional good fit in an odd situation.
--
Bill Sloman, Nijmegen
I usually associate the word "legacy" with good things, such as a
long-lost uncle leaving me lots of money.
If one happens to need a moderately quick (20 ns) part that will drive
six 30V, 40 mA loads, one could do a lot worse than a thirty-cent 7406.
Other driver parts such as a ULN2003 Darlington are about the same
price, and much much slower, though of course relays and solenoids don't
care. (Of course if the pick-and-place costs are low enough, six
2N7002s could be better and cheaper than either.)
Cheers
Phil Hobbs
On Jan 16, 4:55 pm, Phil Hobbs
pcdhSpamMeSensel...@electrooptical.net> wrote:
On 01/16/2012 06:21 AM, petrus bitbyter wrote:
"hamilton"<hamil...@nothere.com> schreef in bericht
news:jevd34$mk6$2_at_dont-email.me...
On 1/15/2012 11:21 AM, petrus bitbyter wrote:
a7yvm109gf...@netzero.com> schreef in bericht
news:a76c9327-b45c-4fb0-8217-fc0e5af61f2d_at_m20g2000vbf.googlegroups.com...
Hi all, (happy new year BTW)
How are 74xx chips made these days? Just the same old masks as 30
years ago, or are they die-shrunk along with everything else? I doubt
manufacturers keep vintage equipment going just to make old ICs, and I
also don't think the die is the same size.
If I crack open a 30 year old 7400 and a recent one, will the die be
the same size?
What are the chances that modern 74xx devices are actually a single
CPLD that's programmed at the factory to act like a 7400 or 7406?
Just daydreaming here.
TIA
Recent one? Standard TTL is obsolete for years by now and FAIK it is not
produced anywhere anymore.
Go over to Digikey.com and enter 74ls into the search box.
Maybe not as many as a few years ago, but still hundreds of parts still
available.
And Digikey only sells what is currently available.
don
petrus bitbyter
Standard TTL are the parts numbered SN74xx or some SN74xxx and equivalents.
The parts numbered SN74LSxx are LOW POWER Schottky TTL. Most of them are
still widely available.
There are still some more specialized original TTL parts, especially the
ones with higher drive, e.g. the SN7406 OC inverter/driver. There was a
time back in the 80s when it still made sense to use old TTL for that
sort of job, because the LS ones were too wimpy. I suspect that it's
mostly repair and maybe residual production of those sorts of gizmos
that keeps old TTL going.
As with the 555 - legacy designs and legacy designers, plus the
occasional good fit in an odd situation.
--
Bill Sloman, Nijmegen
I usually associate the word "legacy" with good things, such as a
long-lost uncle leaving me lots of money.
If one happens to need a moderately quick (20 ns) part that will drive
six 30V, 40 mA loads, one could do a lot worse than a thirty-cent 7406.
Other driver parts such as a ULN2003 Darlington are about the same
price, and much much slower, though of course relays and solenoids don't
care. (Of course if the pick-and-place costs are low enough, six
2N7002s could be better and cheaper than either.)
Cheers
Phil Hobbs
Why doesn't somebody make the mosfet equivalent of the ULN2003?
John
Tim Wescott
Guest
Guest
Mon Jan 16, 2012 7:06 pm
On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 08:57:45 -0800, a7yvm109gf5d1 wrote:
Quote:
Hi all, (happy new year BTW)
How are 74xx chips made these days? Just the same old masks as 30 years
ago, or are they die-shrunk along with everything else? I doubt
manufacturers keep vintage equipment going just to make old ICs, and I
also don't think the die is the same size.
If I crack open a 30 year old 7400 and a recent one, will the die be the
same size?
What are the chances that modern 74xx devices are actually a single CPLD
that's programmed at the factory to act like a 7400 or 7406?
How are 74xx chips made these days? Just the same old masks as 30 years
ago, or are they die-shrunk along with everything else? I doubt
manufacturers keep vintage equipment going just to make old ICs, and I
also don't think the die is the same size.
If I crack open a 30 year old 7400 and a recent one, will the die be the
same size?
What are the chances that modern 74xx devices are actually a single CPLD
that's programmed at the factory to act like a 7400 or 7406?
There's tons-o 74YYxx parts, with YY in {HC, AHC, ALS, VLS, ...}. But
straight 74xx parts are rare.
Most of the LSI parts are unavailable -- if you need adders and ALU's and
stuff then you're going to want an FPGA or a PAL, so you won't buy 74xx
logic anyway. But most of the real jelly-bean functions (gates, some
counters, multivibrators, PLL chips) seem to be going strong.
I suspect that they're all new, or perhaps 10 year old technology that's
been moved to China and made without care or concern for the factory
workers or the factory environs.
--
My liberal friends think I'm a conservative kook.
My conservative friends think I'm a liberal kook.
Why am I not happy that they have found common ground?
Tim Wescott, Communications, Control, Circuits & Software
http://www.wescottdesign.com
TTman
Guest
Guest
Mon Jan 16, 2012 9:23 pm
Quote:
If I crack open a 30 year old 7400 and a recent one, will the die be
the same size?
What are the chances that modern 74xx devices are actually a single
CPLD that's programmed at the factory to act like a 7400 or 7406?
Just daydreaming here.
TIA
Recent one? Standard TTL is obsolete for years by now and FAIK it is not
produced anywhere anymore.
petrus bitbyter
If you're in the military market, you can get obsolete dies and get your own
chips made.... Typical costs per chip..$100x1000pcs
But you get to repair that $xMillion piece of 70's state of the art
kit...that would cost $100 Mill to replace...
Bill Sloman
Guest
Guest
Tue Jan 17, 2012 1:39 am
On Jan 16, 6:11 pm, Phil Hobbs
<pcdhSpamMeSensel...@electrooptical.net> wrote:
Quote:
BillSlomanwrote:
On Jan 16, 4:55 pm, Phil Hobbs
pcdhSpamMeSensel...@electrooptical.net> wrote:
On 01/16/2012 06:21 AM, petrus bitbyter wrote:
"hamilton"<hamil...@nothere.com> schreef in bericht
news:jevd34$mk6$2_at_dont-email.me...
On 1/15/2012 11:21 AM, petrus bitbyter wrote:
a7yvm109gf...@netzero.com> schreef in bericht
news:a76c9327-b45c-4fb0-8217-fc0e5af61f2d_at_m20g2000vbf.googlegroups..com...
Hi all, (happy new year BTW)
How are 74xx chips made these days? Just the same old masks as 30
years ago, or are they die-shrunk along with everything else? I doubt
manufacturers keep vintage equipment going just to make old ICs, and I
also don't think the die is the same size.
If I crack open a 30 year old 7400 and a recent one, will the die be
the same size?
What are the chances that modern 74xx devices are actually a single
CPLD that's programmed at the factory to act like a 7400 or 7406?
Just daydreaming here.
TIA
Recent one? Standard TTL is obsolete for years by now and FAIK it is not
produced anywhere anymore.
Go over to Digikey.com and enter 74ls into the search box.
Maybe not as many as a few years ago, but still hundreds of parts still
available.
And Digikey only sells what is currently available.
Standard TTL are the parts numbered SN74xx or some SN74xxx and equivalents.
The parts numbered SN74LSxx are LOW POWER Schottky TTL. Most of them are
still widely available.
There are still some more specialized original TTL parts, especially the
ones with higher drive, e.g. the SN7406 OC inverter/driver. There was a
time back in the 80s when it still made sense to use old TTL for that
sort of job, because the LS ones were too wimpy. I suspect that it's
mostly repair and maybe residual production of those sorts of gizmos
that keeps old TTL going.
As with the 555 - legacy designs and legacy designers, plus the
occasional good fit in an odd situation.
I usually associate the word "legacy" with good things, such as a
long-lost uncle leaving me lots of money.
On Jan 16, 4:55 pm, Phil Hobbs
pcdhSpamMeSensel...@electrooptical.net> wrote:
On 01/16/2012 06:21 AM, petrus bitbyter wrote:
"hamilton"<hamil...@nothere.com> schreef in bericht
news:jevd34$mk6$2_at_dont-email.me...
On 1/15/2012 11:21 AM, petrus bitbyter wrote:
a7yvm109gf...@netzero.com> schreef in bericht
news:a76c9327-b45c-4fb0-8217-fc0e5af61f2d_at_m20g2000vbf.googlegroups..com...
Hi all, (happy new year BTW)
How are 74xx chips made these days? Just the same old masks as 30
years ago, or are they die-shrunk along with everything else? I doubt
manufacturers keep vintage equipment going just to make old ICs, and I
also don't think the die is the same size.
If I crack open a 30 year old 7400 and a recent one, will the die be
the same size?
What are the chances that modern 74xx devices are actually a single
CPLD that's programmed at the factory to act like a 7400 or 7406?
Just daydreaming here.
TIA
Recent one? Standard TTL is obsolete for years by now and FAIK it is not
produced anywhere anymore.
Go over to Digikey.com and enter 74ls into the search box.
Maybe not as many as a few years ago, but still hundreds of parts still
available.
And Digikey only sells what is currently available.
Standard TTL are the parts numbered SN74xx or some SN74xxx and equivalents.
The parts numbered SN74LSxx are LOW POWER Schottky TTL. Most of them are
still widely available.
There are still some more specialized original TTL parts, especially the
ones with higher drive, e.g. the SN7406 OC inverter/driver. There was a
time back in the 80s when it still made sense to use old TTL for that
sort of job, because the LS ones were too wimpy. I suspect that it's
mostly repair and maybe residual production of those sorts of gizmos
that keeps old TTL going.
As with the 555 - legacy designs and legacy designers, plus the
occasional good fit in an odd situation.
I usually associate the word "legacy" with good things, such as a
long-lost uncle leaving me lots of money.
"Legacy" designs are circuits that were designed a long time ago, and
still work well enough that nobody is going to pay to update the
design for more modern parts. "Legacy designers" recycle old
designs and old parts, because they know they work, and the product
isn't going to sell in the kind of volume where the money you could
save by designing in new parts would to cover the extra cost of
working out a new design and getting the bugs out of it, or because
they are lazy.
Quote:
If one happens to need a moderately quick (20 ns) part that will drive
six 30V, 40 mA loads, one could do a lot worse than a thirty-cent 7406.
Other driver parts such as a ULN2003 Darlington are about the same
price, and much much slower, though of course relays and solenoids don't
care. (Of course if the pick-and-place costs are low enough, six
2N7002s could be better and cheaper than either.)
six 30V, 40 mA loads, one could do a lot worse than a thirty-cent 7406.
Other driver parts such as a ULN2003 Darlington are about the same
price, and much much slower, though of course relays and solenoids don't
care. (Of course if the pick-and-place costs are low enough, six
2N7002s could be better and cheaper than either.)
The 7406 was handy, but it's been a very long time since I designed it
into anything.
--
Bill Sloman, Nijmegen
Guest
Tue Jan 17, 2012 11:01 am
On Mon, 16 Jan 2012 12:21:02 +0100, "petrus bitbyter"
<petrus.bitbyter_at_hotmail.com> wrote:
Quote:
Standard TTL are the parts numbered SN74xx or some SN74xxx and equivalents.
And if you are pretty desperate for replacements, look for SN54xx with
extended temperature range.
Guest
Tue Jan 17, 2012 11:14 am
On Mon, 16 Jan 2012 15:39:08 -0800 (PST), Bill Sloman
<bill.sloman_at_ieee.org> wrote:
Quote:
On Jan 16, 6:11 pm, Phil Hobbs
pcdhSpamMeSensel...@electrooptical.net> wrote:
BillSlomanwrote:
On Jan 16, 4:55 pm, Phil Hobbs
pcdhSpamMeSensel...@electrooptical.net> wrote:
On 01/16/2012 06:21 AM, petrus bitbyter wrote:
"hamilton"<hamil...@nothere.com> schreef in bericht
news:jevd34$mk6$2_at_dont-email.me...
On 1/15/2012 11:21 AM, petrus bitbyter wrote:
a7yvm109gf...@netzero.com> schreef in bericht
news:a76c9327-b45c-4fb0-8217-fc0e5af61f2d_at_m20g2000vbf.googlegroups.com...
Hi all, (happy new year BTW)
How are 74xx chips made these days? Just the same old masks as 30
years ago, or are they die-shrunk along with everything else? I doubt
manufacturers keep vintage equipment going just to make old ICs, and I
also don't think the die is the same size.
If I crack open a 30 year old 7400 and a recent one, will the die be
the same size?
What are the chances that modern 74xx devices are actually a single
CPLD that's programmed at the factory to act like a 7400 or 7406?
Just daydreaming here.
TIA
Recent one? Standard TTL is obsolete for years by now and FAIK it is not
produced anywhere anymore.
Go over to Digikey.com and enter 74ls into the search box.
Maybe not as many as a few years ago, but still hundreds of parts still
available.
And Digikey only sells what is currently available.
Standard TTL are the parts numbered SN74xx or some SN74xxx and equivalents.
The parts numbered SN74LSxx are LOW POWER Schottky TTL. Most of them are
still widely available.
There are still some more specialized original TTL parts, especially the
ones with higher drive, e.g. the SN7406 OC inverter/driver. There was a
time back in the 80s when it still made sense to use old TTL for that
sort of job, because the LS ones were too wimpy. I suspect that it's
mostly repair and maybe residual production of those sorts of gizmos
that keeps old TTL going.
As with the 555 - legacy designs and legacy designers, plus the
occasional good fit in an odd situation.
I usually associate the word "legacy" with good things, such as a
long-lost uncle leaving me lots of money.
"Legacy" designs are circuits that were designed a long time ago, and
still work well enough that nobody is going to pay to update the
design for more modern parts. "Legacy designers" recycle old
designs and old parts, because they know they work, and the product
isn't going to sell in the kind of volume where the money you could
save by designing in new parts would to cover the extra cost of
working out a new design and getting the bugs out of it, or because
they are lazy.
pcdhSpamMeSensel...@electrooptical.net> wrote:
BillSlomanwrote:
On Jan 16, 4:55 pm, Phil Hobbs
pcdhSpamMeSensel...@electrooptical.net> wrote:
On 01/16/2012 06:21 AM, petrus bitbyter wrote:
"hamilton"<hamil...@nothere.com> schreef in bericht
news:jevd34$mk6$2_at_dont-email.me...
On 1/15/2012 11:21 AM, petrus bitbyter wrote:
a7yvm109gf...@netzero.com> schreef in bericht
news:a76c9327-b45c-4fb0-8217-fc0e5af61f2d_at_m20g2000vbf.googlegroups.com...
Hi all, (happy new year BTW)
How are 74xx chips made these days? Just the same old masks as 30
years ago, or are they die-shrunk along with everything else? I doubt
manufacturers keep vintage equipment going just to make old ICs, and I
also don't think the die is the same size.
If I crack open a 30 year old 7400 and a recent one, will the die be
the same size?
What are the chances that modern 74xx devices are actually a single
CPLD that's programmed at the factory to act like a 7400 or 7406?
Just daydreaming here.
TIA
Recent one? Standard TTL is obsolete for years by now and FAIK it is not
produced anywhere anymore.
Go over to Digikey.com and enter 74ls into the search box.
Maybe not as many as a few years ago, but still hundreds of parts still
available.
And Digikey only sells what is currently available.
Standard TTL are the parts numbered SN74xx or some SN74xxx and equivalents.
The parts numbered SN74LSxx are LOW POWER Schottky TTL. Most of them are
still widely available.
There are still some more specialized original TTL parts, especially the
ones with higher drive, e.g. the SN7406 OC inverter/driver. There was a
time back in the 80s when it still made sense to use old TTL for that
sort of job, because the LS ones were too wimpy. I suspect that it's
mostly repair and maybe residual production of those sorts of gizmos
that keeps old TTL going.
As with the 555 - legacy designs and legacy designers, plus the
occasional good fit in an odd situation.
I usually associate the word "legacy" with good things, such as a
long-lost uncle leaving me lots of money.
"Legacy" designs are circuits that were designed a long time ago, and
still work well enough that nobody is going to pay to update the
design for more modern parts. "Legacy designers" recycle old
designs and old parts, because they know they work, and the product
isn't going to sell in the kind of volume where the money you could
save by designing in new parts would to cover the extra cost of
working out a new design and getting the bugs out of it, or because
they are lazy.
In the industrial automation sector, you are typically required (by
contract) to supply spare parts for at least a decade. In practice,
in order to keep the customer (for new orders), you have to support
systems two or three decades old.
When old components are no longer available, you have to design new
boards with current components so that a board or box level
replacement can be done.
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