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Computer Nerd Kev
Guest

Thu Oct 20, 2016 10:40 am   



Clocky <notgonna_at_happen.com> wrote:
Quote:
On 19/10/2016 4:14 PM, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:

OK, it did. It also highlighted the quite nice resistor colour chart
that Jaycar ripped off. That page will be handy to keep on my
computer.

I knew I'd seen a similar resistor colour chart before somewhere:

https://postimg.org/image/xnvx7is71/

That photo is from the data section of the Dick Smith catalogues from
the '90's and 2000's and a full size colour one was sold cat. no. B-1000


A few years ago I printed off one from the 'net that also
showed the temperature coefficient colours for 6-band
resistors. Unfortunately I lost the file, it's probably
still online somewhere...

--
__ __
#_ < |\| |< _#

keithr0
Guest

Thu Oct 20, 2016 6:15 pm   



On 10/20/2016 6:40 PM, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
Quote:
Clocky <notgonna_at_happen.com> wrote:
On 19/10/2016 4:14 PM, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:

OK, it did. It also highlighted the quite nice resistor colour chart
that Jaycar ripped off. That page will be handy to keep on my
computer.

I knew I'd seen a similar resistor colour chart before somewhere:

https://postimg.org/image/xnvx7is71/

That photo is from the data section of the Dick Smith catalogues from
the '90's and 2000's and a full size colour one was sold cat. no. B-1000

A few years ago I printed off one from the 'net that also
showed the temperature coefficient colours for 6-band
resistors. Unfortunately I lost the file, it's probably
still online somewhere...

Easy enough to remember the code. From my apprentice days -


0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
Black Brown Red Orange Yellow Green Blue Violet Gray White
Bye bye Rosie Off You Go to Birmingham Via Great Western
Bad Boys Rape Our Young Girls But Virgins Go Without

keithr0
Guest

Thu Oct 20, 2016 6:23 pm   



On 10/19/2016 7:08 PM, Sylvia Else wrote:
Quote:
On 19/10/2016 7:37 PM, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
Sylvia Else <sylvia_at_not.at.this.address> wrote:
On 19/10/2016 1:50 PM, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
Don McKenzie <5V_at_2.5a> wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SW8K9D9u5aI

I am basically retired these days, and not really involved with
electronics like I use to be. Just cruising!

However this Jaycar blatant rip off was brought to my
attention, and I knew I had to do something about it.

Have a look at the youtube video, comments very welcome.

I admit I haven't watched the video, but looking at the two
product pages linked in the description, I can't see what the
fuss is about.

Jaycar packages an equivalent kit to Freetronics; with their own
colour and branding so I don't see how consumers would mistake it
for a Freetronics product. I hardly think Freetronics would have
patented their kit design, so what's the problem?

The Freetronics Arduino (and possibly the Jaycar one as well) is
only an unofficial copy of the Open-Source Arduino design, so I
don't understand why there would be any sense of loyalty to them
in any case.


It's clear that they've copied the packaging design and the
instruction book, not just developed their own.

Yep, I'm with you at least as far as images in the book. The rest
might be called "reverse-engineered"

The video indicates that the Jaycar book, or significant parts of it,
are word for word copies of the Freetronics book. Further, I can see
nothing to suggest that the book is anything other than copyright to
Freetronics, with no provision allowing others to appropriate it in any
way whatsoever.

However, enforcing copyright on the book would probably just result in
Jaycar writing their own.

Clearly, in its present form, Jaycar's product is a blatant rip-off of
Freetronics, but the idea of having a kit is not one that can be
protected, and there was nothing to prevent Jaycar from producing their
own - provided they did it without copying the parts of Freetronics'
work that can be protected by copyright.


Freetronics are a pretty blatant ripoff themselves, they import the
stuff stick it in a packet and sell it at an outrageous markup.

Computer Nerd Kev
Guest

Thu Oct 20, 2016 10:57 pm   



keithr0 <user_at_account.invalid> wrote:
Quote:
On 10/20/2016 6:40 PM, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
Clocky <notgonna_at_happen.com> wrote:
On 19/10/2016 4:14 PM, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:

OK, it did. It also highlighted the quite nice resistor colour chart
that Jaycar ripped off. That page will be handy to keep on my
computer.

I knew I'd seen a similar resistor colour chart before somewhere:

https://postimg.org/image/xnvx7is71/

That photo is from the data section of the Dick Smith catalogues from
the '90's and 2000's and a full size colour one was sold cat. no. B-1000

A few years ago I printed off one from the 'net that also
showed the temperature coefficient colours for 6-band
resistors. Unfortunately I lost the file, it's probably
still online somewhere...

Easy enough to remember the code. From my apprentice days -

0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
Black Brown Red Orange Yellow Green Blue Violet Gray White
Bye bye Rosie Off You Go to Birmingham Via Great Western
Bad Boys Rape Our Young Girls But Virgins Go Without


There are many versions of that last one. :)

Unfortunately the more fickle memories among us can need some
reassurance that 8 was Grey, not Green, and 6 was Blue, not
Brown.

--
__ __
#_ < |\| |< _#

Sylvia Else
Guest

Fri Oct 21, 2016 7:26 am   



On 20/10/2016 11:15 PM, keithr0 wrote:
Quote:
On 10/20/2016 6:40 PM, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
Clocky <notgonna_at_happen.com> wrote:
On 19/10/2016 4:14 PM, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:

OK, it did. It also highlighted the quite nice resistor colour chart
that Jaycar ripped off. That page will be handy to keep on my
computer.

I knew I'd seen a similar resistor colour chart before somewhere:

https://postimg.org/image/xnvx7is71/

That photo is from the data section of the Dick Smith catalogues from
the '90's and 2000's and a full size colour one was sold cat. no. B-1000

A few years ago I printed off one from the 'net that also
showed the temperature coefficient colours for 6-band
resistors. Unfortunately I lost the file, it's probably
still online somewhere...

Easy enough to remember the code. From my apprentice days -

0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
Black Brown Red Orange Yellow Green Blue Violet Gray White
Bye bye Rosie Off You Go to Birmingham Via Great Western
Bad Boys Rape Our Young Girls But Virgins Go Without


Though I'm finding it less useful to know these days, because the 1%
resistors I buy seem to be coded with various shades of brown on a blue
background. I used to be confident that I could correctly read the code,
but now I have to check every one with a multimeter.

Sylvia.

Clocky
Guest

Fri Oct 21, 2016 6:11 pm   



On 20/10/2016 8:23 PM, keithr0 wrote:
Quote:
On 10/19/2016 7:08 PM, Sylvia Else wrote:
On 19/10/2016 7:37 PM, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
Sylvia Else <sylvia_at_not.at.this.address> wrote:
On 19/10/2016 1:50 PM, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
Don McKenzie <5V_at_2.5a> wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SW8K9D9u5aI

I am basically retired these days, and not really involved with
electronics like I use to be. Just cruising!

However this Jaycar blatant rip off was brought to my
attention, and I knew I had to do something about it.

Have a look at the youtube video, comments very welcome.

I admit I haven't watched the video, but looking at the two
product pages linked in the description, I can't see what the
fuss is about.

Jaycar packages an equivalent kit to Freetronics; with their own
colour and branding so I don't see how consumers would mistake it
for a Freetronics product. I hardly think Freetronics would have
patented their kit design, so what's the problem?

The Freetronics Arduino (and possibly the Jaycar one as well) is
only an unofficial copy of the Open-Source Arduino design, so I
don't understand why there would be any sense of loyalty to them
in any case.


It's clear that they've copied the packaging design and the
instruction book, not just developed their own.

Yep, I'm with you at least as far as images in the book. The rest
might be called "reverse-engineered"

The video indicates that the Jaycar book, or significant parts of it,
are word for word copies of the Freetronics book. Further, I can see
nothing to suggest that the book is anything other than copyright to
Freetronics, with no provision allowing others to appropriate it in any
way whatsoever.

However, enforcing copyright on the book would probably just result in
Jaycar writing their own.

Clearly, in its present form, Jaycar's product is a blatant rip-off of
Freetronics, but the idea of having a kit is not one that can be
protected, and there was nothing to prevent Jaycar from producing their
own - provided they did it without copying the parts of Freetronics'
work that can be protected by copyright.

Freetronics are a pretty blatant ripoff themselves, they import the
stuff stick it in a packet and sell it at an outrageous markup.


What do they charge for that kit?

Xeno
Guest

Fri Oct 21, 2016 7:07 pm   



On 21/10/2016 11:11 PM, Clocky wrote:
Quote:
On 20/10/2016 8:23 PM, keithr0 wrote:
On 10/19/2016 7:08 PM, Sylvia Else wrote:
On 19/10/2016 7:37 PM, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
Sylvia Else <sylvia_at_not.at.this.address> wrote:
On 19/10/2016 1:50 PM, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
Don McKenzie <5V_at_2.5a> wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SW8K9D9u5aI

I am basically retired these days, and not really involved with
electronics like I use to be. Just cruising!

However this Jaycar blatant rip off was brought to my
attention, and I knew I had to do something about it.

Have a look at the youtube video, comments very welcome.

I admit I haven't watched the video, but looking at the two
product pages linked in the description, I can't see what the
fuss is about.

Jaycar packages an equivalent kit to Freetronics; with their own
colour and branding so I don't see how consumers would mistake it
for a Freetronics product. I hardly think Freetronics would have
patented their kit design, so what's the problem?

The Freetronics Arduino (and possibly the Jaycar one as well) is
only an unofficial copy of the Open-Source Arduino design, so I
don't understand why there would be any sense of loyalty to them
in any case.


It's clear that they've copied the packaging design and the
instruction book, not just developed their own.

Yep, I'm with you at least as far as images in the book. The rest
might be called "reverse-engineered"

The video indicates that the Jaycar book, or significant parts of it,
are word for word copies of the Freetronics book. Further, I can see
nothing to suggest that the book is anything other than copyright to
Freetronics, with no provision allowing others to appropriate it in any
way whatsoever.

However, enforcing copyright on the book would probably just result in
Jaycar writing their own.

Clearly, in its present form, Jaycar's product is a blatant rip-off of
Freetronics, but the idea of having a kit is not one that can be
protected, and there was nothing to prevent Jaycar from producing their
own - provided they did it without copying the parts of Freetronics'
work that can be protected by copyright.

Freetronics are a pretty blatant ripoff themselves, they import the
stuff stick it in a packet and sell it at an outrageous markup.


What do they charge for that kit?


The Freetronics one is (was) about $80. I bought one last year or
thereabouts, from Jaycar too, and it was reasonable value, I thought,
compared to assembling the components myself. Even added a few modules
to it later on. With the book, it's a good starter kit and I don't
begrudge Freetronics the profit they may have made.

From the website, it looks like that kit is $109 now though I'm not
sure it's quite the same kit.


--

Xeno

First they ignore you,
Then they ridicule you,
Then they fight you,
Then you win.

Mahatma Ghandi

Computer Nerd Kev
Guest

Fri Oct 21, 2016 11:05 pm   



Sylvia Else <sylvia_at_not.at.this.address> wrote:
Quote:
On 20/10/2016 11:15 PM, keithr0 wrote:
On 10/20/2016 6:40 PM, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
Clocky <notgonna_at_happen.com> wrote:
On 19/10/2016 4:14 PM, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:

OK, it did. It also highlighted the quite nice resistor colour chart
that Jaycar ripped off. That page will be handy to keep on my
computer.

I knew I'd seen a similar resistor colour chart before somewhere:

https://postimg.org/image/xnvx7is71/

That photo is from the data section of the Dick Smith catalogues from
the '90's and 2000's and a full size colour one was sold cat. no. B-1000

A few years ago I printed off one from the 'net that also
showed the temperature coefficient colours for 6-band
resistors. Unfortunately I lost the file, it's probably
still online somewhere...

Easy enough to remember the code. From my apprentice days -

0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
Black Brown Red Orange Yellow Green Blue Violet Gray White
Bye bye Rosie Off You Go to Birmingham Via Great Western
Bad Boys Rape Our Young Girls But Virgins Go Without

Though I'm finding it less useful to know these days, because the 1%
resistors I buy seem to be coded with various shades of brown on a blue
background. I used to be confident that I could correctly read the code,
but now I have to check every one with a multimeter.


Yes, I've run across a few truely impossible ones. Lighting can be
important though, florescent lights don't put out the complete
colour spectrum, which can be the cause of colour code issues.

Holding it up next to a window, or taking it as a potentially
well needed excuse for a breath of fresh air, can be useful.
Though I find that once the doubt has been planted, I usually
confirm with the DMM afterwards anyway.

--
__ __
#_ < |\| |< _#

Computer Nerd Kev
Guest

Fri Oct 21, 2016 11:21 pm   



Xeno <xenolith_at_optusnet.com.au> wrote:
Quote:
On 21/10/2016 11:11 PM, Clocky wrote:
On 20/10/2016 8:23 PM, keithr0 wrote:

Freetronics are a pretty blatant ripoff themselves, they import the
stuff stick it in a packet and sell it at an outrageous markup.


What do they charge for that kit?

The Freetronics one is (was) about $80. I bought one last year or
thereabouts, from Jaycar too, and it was reasonable value, I thought,
compared to assembling the components myself. Even added a few modules
to it later on. With the book, it's a good starter kit and I don't
begrudge Freetronics the profit they may have made.


If you accept the "put a component on a PCB and up the price by a
factor of ten" business model, it's probably good value. Anyway, it
appeals to a market, but with a scheme like that there's no doubt
there'll be copiers, it's just a case of how ruthless they'll be.

Quote:
From the website, it looks like that kit is $109 now though I'm not
sure it's quite the same kit.


$89, $0.95 less than Jaycar's $89.95

Links from the Video Description:

http://www.freetronics.com.au/products/experimenters-kit-for-arduino
https://www.jaycar.com.au/duinotech-experiments-kit/p/XC4287

--
__ __
#_ < |\| |< _#

Sylvia Else
Guest

Sat Oct 22, 2016 7:30 am   



On 22/10/2016 8:05 AM, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
Quote:
Sylvia Else <sylvia_at_not.at.this.address> wrote:
On 20/10/2016 11:15 PM, keithr0 wrote:
On 10/20/2016 6:40 PM, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
Clocky <notgonna_at_happen.com> wrote:
On 19/10/2016 4:14 PM, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:

OK, it did. It also highlighted the quite nice resistor colour chart
that Jaycar ripped off. That page will be handy to keep on my
computer.

I knew I'd seen a similar resistor colour chart before somewhere:

https://postimg.org/image/xnvx7is71/

That photo is from the data section of the Dick Smith catalogues from
the '90's and 2000's and a full size colour one was sold cat. no. B-1000

A few years ago I printed off one from the 'net that also
showed the temperature coefficient colours for 6-band
resistors. Unfortunately I lost the file, it's probably
still online somewhere...

Easy enough to remember the code. From my apprentice days -

0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
Black Brown Red Orange Yellow Green Blue Violet Gray White
Bye bye Rosie Off You Go to Birmingham Via Great Western
Bad Boys Rape Our Young Girls But Virgins Go Without

Though I'm finding it less useful to know these days, because the 1%
resistors I buy seem to be coded with various shades of brown on a blue
background. I used to be confident that I could correctly read the code,
but now I have to check every one with a multimeter.

Yes, I've run across a few truely impossible ones. Lighting can be
important though, florescent lights don't put out the complete
colour spectrum, which can be the cause of colour code issues.

Holding it up next to a window, or taking it as a potentially
well needed excuse for a breath of fresh air, can be useful.
Though I find that once the doubt has been planted, I usually
confirm with the DMM afterwards anyway.


Rather than store every value in a separate draw (which would take too
much room), I long ago decided to store them according to the first two
digits (so 27, 270, 2K7 etc. go in the same draw). That means that I
only have to look at the multiplier band to locate the one I want. It
used to work fine.

But I find that now I cannot reliably distinguish brown from red, red
from orange, orange from yellow, which means that I'm at risk of getting
a resistor that's an order of magnitude out, and often enough the
multimeter confirms that. It's a right pain.

Sylvia.

~misfit~
Guest

Sat Oct 22, 2016 7:30 am   



Once upon a time on usenet Trevor Wilson wrote:
Quote:
On 19/10/2016 9:14 AM, Don McKenzie wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SW8K9D9u5aI

I am basically retired these days, and not really involved with
electronics like I use to be.
Just cruising!

However this Jaycar blatant rip off was brought to my attention, and
I knew I had to do something about it.

Have a look at the youtube video, comments very welcome.

Cheers Don...


**Another good reason to avoid Jaycar whenever possible. Disgusting.


Seconded. I used to use them often before I knew better but now they are a
very last resort for time-sensitive items that need to over-rule prefernces.
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy
little classification in the DSM*."
David Melville (in r.a.s.f1)
(*Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders)

Xeno
Guest

Sat Oct 22, 2016 3:29 pm   



On 22/10/2016 8:21 AM, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
Quote:
Xeno <xenolith_at_optusnet.com.au> wrote:
On 21/10/2016 11:11 PM, Clocky wrote:
On 20/10/2016 8:23 PM, keithr0 wrote:

Freetronics are a pretty blatant ripoff themselves, they import the
stuff stick it in a packet and sell it at an outrageous markup.


What do they charge for that kit?

The Freetronics one is (was) about $80. I bought one last year or
thereabouts, from Jaycar too, and it was reasonable value, I thought,
compared to assembling the components myself. Even added a few modules
to it later on. With the book, it's a good starter kit and I don't
begrudge Freetronics the profit they may have made.

If you accept the "put a component on a PCB and up the price by a
factor of ten" business model, it's probably good value. Anyway, it
appeals to a market, but with a scheme like that there's no doubt
there'll be copiers, it's just a case of how ruthless they'll be.

From the website, it looks like that kit is $109 now though I'm not
sure it's quite the same kit.

$89, $0.95 less than Jaycar's $89.95

Links from the Video Description:

http://www.freetronics.com.au/products/experimenters-kit-for-arduino
https://www.jaycar.com.au/duinotech-experiments-kit/p/XC4287

I meant the Freetronics kit from Jaycar. http://tinyurl.com/zawsrau
That was the one I bought for $79.95, if I recall correctly. If the kit
in the link I provided is the same, Jaycar has whacked on a huge markup.
I daresay that is to differentiate the Freetronics product from their
own shonky one which they are no doubt making a killing on.


--

Xeno

First they ignore you,
Then they ridicule you,
Then they fight you,
Then you win.

Mahatma Ghandi

Xeno
Guest

Sat Oct 22, 2016 3:31 pm   



On 22/10/2016 2:57 PM, ~misfit~ wrote:
Quote:
Once upon a time on usenet Trevor Wilson wrote:
On 19/10/2016 9:14 AM, Don McKenzie wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SW8K9D9u5aI

I am basically retired these days, and not really involved with
electronics like I use to be.
Just cruising!

However this Jaycar blatant rip off was brought to my attention, and
I knew I had to do something about it.

Have a look at the youtube video, comments very welcome.

Cheers Don...


**Another good reason to avoid Jaycar whenever possible. Disgusting.

Seconded. I used to use them often before I knew better but now they are a
very last resort for time-sensitive items that need to over-rule prefernces.

It's the only *local* option here but I may do a lot more mail order in
the future and give Jaycar a big miss.

--

Xeno

First they ignore you,
Then they ridicule you,
Then they fight you,
Then you win.

Mahatma Ghandi

keithr0
Guest

Sat Oct 22, 2016 5:53 pm   



On 10/22/2016 7:21 AM, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
Quote:
Xeno <xenolith_at_optusnet.com.au> wrote:
On 21/10/2016 11:11 PM, Clocky wrote:
On 20/10/2016 8:23 PM, keithr0 wrote:

Freetronics are a pretty blatant ripoff themselves, they import the
stuff stick it in a packet and sell it at an outrageous markup.


What do they charge for that kit?

The Freetronics one is (was) about $80. I bought one last year or
thereabouts, from Jaycar too, and it was reasonable value, I thought,
compared to assembling the components myself. Even added a few modules
to it later on. With the book, it's a good starter kit and I don't
begrudge Freetronics the profit they may have made.

If you accept the "put a component on a PCB and up the price by a
factor of ten" business model, it's probably good value. Anyway, it
appeals to a market, but with a scheme like that there's no doubt
there'll be copiers, it's just a case of how ruthless they'll be.

From the website, it looks like that kit is $109 now though I'm not
sure it's quite the same kit.

$89, $0.95 less than Jaycar's $89.95

Links from the Video Description:

http://www.freetronics.com.au/products/experimenters-kit-for-arduino
https://www.jaycar.com.au/duinotech-experiments-kit/p/XC4287

On Ebay


Breadboard with 65 connecting wires - $3.71
Arduino Uno - $2.97 - $16.95
servo $8.00
Light sensor $5.00
Rest of the bits maybe $20
total about $39

Better value if you really want a kit for $75.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Professional-UNO-R3-Starter-Kit-for-Arduino-LCD-Compass-Gyro-DIY-AU-Shipping-/152101508791?hash=item2369f4d6b7:g:MhYAAOSwAuNW6YbD

Jasen Betts
Guest

Sun Oct 23, 2016 2:49 am   



On 2016-10-22, keithr0 <user_at_account.invalid> wrote:
Quote:
On 10/22/2016 7:21 AM, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
Xeno <xenolith_at_optusnet.com.au> wrote:
On 21/10/2016 11:11 PM, Clocky wrote:
On 20/10/2016 8:23 PM, keithr0 wrote:

Freetronics are a pretty blatant ripoff themselves, they import the
stuff stick it in a packet and sell it at an outrageous markup.


What do they charge for that kit?

The Freetronics one is (was) about $80. I bought one last year or
thereabouts, from Jaycar too, and it was reasonable value, I thought,
compared to assembling the components myself. Even added a few modules
to it later on. With the book, it's a good starter kit and I don't
begrudge Freetronics the profit they may have made.

If you accept the "put a component on a PCB and up the price by a
factor of ten" business model, it's probably good value. Anyway, it
appeals to a market, but with a scheme like that there's no doubt
there'll be copiers, it's just a case of how ruthless they'll be.

From the website, it looks like that kit is $109 now though I'm not
sure it's quite the same kit.

$89, $0.95 less than Jaycar's $89.95

Links from the Video Description:

http://www.freetronics.com.au/products/experimenters-kit-for-arduino
https://www.jaycar.com.au/duinotech-experiments-kit/p/XC4287

On Ebay

Breadboard with 65 connecting wires - $3.71
Arduino Uno - $2.97 - $16.95
servo $8.00
Light sensor $5.00
Rest of the bits maybe $20
total about $39

Better value if you really want a kit for $75.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Professional-UNO-R3-Starter-Kit-for-Arduino-LCD-Compass-Gyro-DIY-AU-Shipping-/152101508791?hash=item2369f4d6b7:g:MhYAAOSwAuNW6YbD


yeah, if you want to spend $50
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/For-Arduino-starter-Kit-Set-Upgraded-Version-arduino-uno-r3-DIY/32623912358.html?spm=2114.01020208.6.7.OhSC7K&s=p


--
This email has not been checked by half-arsed antivirus software

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