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Dimiter_Popoff
Guest

Sun Dec 30, 2018 10:45 pm   



On 12/30/2018 23:17, Tom Gardner wrote:
Quote:
On 30/12/18 21:07, Dimiter_Popoff wrote:
....

and Putin is making the most of it. Even if Trump
is not his pawn (which I think he is) having someone as useless as him
in the white house is a Christmas wish come true for Putin.

"Pawn" is too simplistic. "Useful fool" is probably
nearer the mark.


I agree "pawn" is too simplistic, but I am not sure it is just the
"useful fool" he has there. May be so, but he may well have enough on
him to make him do what he wants when it really matters. Obviously he
will not burn him for small purposes.
We may or may never know which of the two it is of course. Or rather,
if we know it will likely be too late for the civilized world to do
anything about it.

Dimiter

Tom Gardner
Guest

Sun Dec 30, 2018 10:45 pm   



On 30/12/18 21:07, Dimiter_Popoff wrote:
Quote:
On 12/30/2018 18:29, Tom Gardner wrote:
On 30/12/18 15:36, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 20:58:28 -0500, Phil Hobbs wrote:

Oh, well.  Maybe you folks will have to step up and fund your own
defence, like grown-ups.

It's about time! NATO is long overdue for reform. All that expansion into
Eastern Europe was a crazy idea and Trump certainly can't be blamed for
that. Hopefully when he's got comfortable in his job he can reverse it,
in the interests of world peace.

Well, Putin would say that, wouldn't he.

I can understand how the average people in any country - the US
included - can be had by cheap populism.

What I do not understand is how some clearly intelligent people
here go the same way and can tolerate a Kremlin puppet


Indeed. It is a good demonstration that "intelligence"
is not a single-valued quantity.

Quote:
(just check
what the Russian trolls were doing all over the world during the
campaign to know who the Kremlin wanted) to be in control of
their country... I suppose giving them something - a little off
the tax this or that year - has helped, but still how can they
accept to have a mediocre person with a vulnerable  ego in need
of hourly soothing who has clearly been approved by their enemy stay
at the top is beyond me.
Things must have gone pretty bad - the alternative must have been
very displeasing -


I've no strong opinion on that topic.

From what I can make out the choice was between a
competent kleptomanic and an incompetent kleptomaniac.
And Hollywood won - in the same way as Bollywood
wins in India.


Quote:
and Putin is making the most of it. Even if Trump
is not his pawn (which I think he is) having someone as useless as him
in the white house is a Christmas wish come true for Putin.


"Pawn" is too simplistic. "Useful fool" is probably
nearer the mark.

Dimiter_Popoff
Guest

Sun Dec 30, 2018 10:45 pm   



On 12/30/2018 18:29, Tom Gardner wrote:
Quote:
On 30/12/18 15:36, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 20:58:28 -0500, Phil Hobbs wrote:

Oh, well.  Maybe you folks will have to step up and fund your own
defence, like grown-ups.

It's about time! NATO is long overdue for reform. All that expansion into
Eastern Europe was a crazy idea and Trump certainly can't be blamed for
that. Hopefully when he's got comfortable in his job he can reverse it,
in the interests of world peace.

Well, Putin would say that, wouldn't he.


I can understand how the average people in any country - the US
included - can be had by cheap populism.

What I do not understand is how some clearly intelligent people
here go the same way and can tolerate a Kremlin puppet (just check
what the Russian trolls were doing all over the world during the
campaign to know who the Kremlin wanted) to be in control of
their country... I suppose giving them something - a little off
the tax this or that year - has helped, but still how can they
accept to have a mediocre person with a vulnerable ego in need
of hourly soothing who has clearly been approved by their enemy stay
at the top is beyond me.
Things must have gone pretty bad - the alternative must have been
very displeasing - and Putin is making the most of it. Even if Trump
is not his pawn (which I think he is) having someone as useless as him
in the white house is a Christmas wish come true for Putin.

Dimiter

Cursitor Doom
Guest

Mon Dec 31, 2018 12:45 am   



On Sun, 30 Dec 2018 23:07:54 +0200, Dimiter_Popoff wrote:

Quote:
I suppose
giving them something - a little off the tax this or that year - has
helped, but still how can they accept to have a mediocre person with a
vulnerable ego in need of hourly soothing who has clearly been approved
by their enemy stay at the top is beyond me.


Well you can't blame the Russians for wanting someone less bellicose in
the job. Hitlery would have started WW3 by now and that's not in any sane
person's interest.



--
This message may be freely reproduced without limit or charge only via
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protocols constitutes acceptance of this condition.

amdx
Guest

Mon Dec 31, 2018 12:45 am   



Quote:

I wonder what trajectory Phil Hobbs had in mind. Teddy Roosevelt did at least support the anti-trust legislation which slowed down the process of the people who owned the country ripping off the country.


As a conservative this is one place we could have some agreement.
I consider it a failure that Office Depot and Office Max were allowed to
merge. I went to fax* a 40 page document, Office Depot wanted $2.75 for
the first page and $2.10 for for each additional page. This was just to
fax to a free telephone number. I guess they can, because they don't
have a lot of local competition.
I also have a problem with Google and Facebook, some companies have
just got too big.

Mikek

*I have a fax machine, I just no longer have a landline.
Someone here is bound to tell me how fax with my cellphone, and I
appreciate that.
My local library has setup a free fax machine during our local
emergency, but I think that is coming to an end.

Dimiter_Popoff
Guest

Mon Dec 31, 2018 1:45 am   



On 12/31/2018 0:47, Cursitor Doom wrote:
Quote:
On Sun, 30 Dec 2018 23:07:54 +0200, Dimiter_Popoff wrote:

I suppose
giving them something - a little off the tax this or that year - has
helped, but still how can they accept to have a mediocre person with a
vulnerable ego in need of hourly soothing who has clearly been approved
by their enemy stay at the top is beyond me.

Well you can't blame the Russians for wanting someone less bellicose in
the job. Hitlery would have started WW3 by now and that's not in any sane
person's interest.


Of course, why give them a fight when surrendering is so much easier.

To what length people are capable of going in order to justify
what they have bought into, however shitty it may actually be, LOL.

Although I suppose the only way Trump could have got into the job
was to have someone as hated as Hillary against him - but of course
I doubt anyone seriously believes in the WWIII nonsense you refer to.

So I guess you have had two shitty options, how can anyone blame you.

I personally am faced with exclusively shitty options when it comes
to elections here (Bulgaria), not just shitty but controlled by the
KGB mafia. So I just do not vote - when I am offered to choose between
a brown and a green shit for lunch I'll just skip lunch, thanks.
The general public is far far from this attitude yet of course, that
all around the globe.

whit3rd
Guest

Mon Dec 31, 2018 1:45 am   



On Sunday, December 30, 2018 at 3:53:02 PM UTC-8, dp wrote:

Quote:
Although I suppose the only way Trump could have got into the job
was to have someone as hated as Hillary against him


Yeah, but 'hated' is not how anyone sees Hillary Clinton, it's just
a provocation. A few people will always believe any outrageous claim,
and if you ask a probing question (like, "Why?") the answers are
sparse and unimpressive. One 'warmonger' advocate has
suggested all wars during her Secretary of State tenure were her fault,
for instance.

It's like a conspiracy theory, a suggestive soundbite that doesn't really HAVE a good
correspondence with real events and persons. A few people will
decide to believe... regardless of the merits.

Swiftboat was an example that kinda... worked. We've GOT to expect
the tricksters to do it again, and again, and again...


Guest

Mon Dec 31, 2018 2:45 am   



On Monday, December 31, 2018 at 2:36:26 AM UTC+11, Cursitor Doom wrote:
Quote:
On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 20:58:28 -0500, Phil Hobbs wrote:

Oh, well. Maybe you folks will have to step up and fund your own
defence, like grown-ups.

It's about time! NATO is long overdue for reform. All that expansion into
Eastern Europe was a crazy idea and Trump certainly can't be blamed for
that.


I wonder why Cursitor Doom considers it crazy? NATO was all about the US fighting the Russians on non-US territory, and the original European Union is presumably equally happy about fighting the Russians (if it ever comes to that) on the economically developed regions of Eastern Europe which Russian had failed to develop back when it occupied them.

Quote:
Hopefully when he's got comfortable in his job he can reverse it,
in the interests of world peace.


Trump isn't going to get comfortable in his job. He'd need to understand what it was before he could manage that, and the realisation that he'd have to give up on off-the-cuff lies would make him very uncomfortable.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney


Guest

Mon Dec 31, 2018 2:45 am   



On Monday, December 31, 2018 at 9:47:09 AM UTC+11, Cursitor Doom wrote:
Quote:
On Sun, 30 Dec 2018 23:07:54 +0200, Dimiter_Popoff wrote:

I suppose
giving them something - a little off the tax this or that year - has
helped, but still how can they accept to have a mediocre person with a
vulnerable ego in need of hourly soothing who has clearly been approved
by their enemy stay at the top is beyond me.

Well you can't blame the Russians for wanting someone less bellicose in
the job. Hitlery would have started WW3 by now and that's not in any sane
person's interest.


Cursitor Doom does have some bizarre delusions. Quite why he thinks that Hillary Clinton is "bellicose" escapes me.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Security_Council_Resolution_1973

was passed in 2011 with the US abstaining. Clinton was US Secretary of State at the time and it is hard to characterise an abstention as "bellicose".

The far-right-wing press isn't inhibited by inconvenient facts, and gullible twits like Cursitor Doom and John Larkin will believe all sorts of implausible nonsense, but this is a particularly demented claim, even for lunatics like them.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

Jasen Betts
Guest

Mon Dec 31, 2018 3:39 am   



On 2018-12-29, bitrex <user_at_example.net> wrote:
Quote:
On 12/29/2018 01:40 PM, John Larkin wrote:
On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 13:23:56 -0500, bitrex <user_at_example.net> wrote:

But Trump confounds people with common sense

That is for sure.


I agree that Trump confoundes sensible people, but I suspect that
John was using the other interpretation of that phrase.

--
When I tried casting out nines I made a hash of it.


Guest

Mon Dec 31, 2018 3:45 am   



Jasen Betts <jasen_at_xnet.co.nz> wrote in
news:q0bs14$qqh$1_at_gonzo.alcatraz:

Quote:
On 2018-12-29, bitrex <user_at_example.net> wrote:
On 12/29/2018 01:40 PM, John Larkin wrote:
On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 13:23:56 -0500, bitrex <user_at_example.net
wrote:

But Trump confounds people with common sense

That is for sure.

I agree that Trump confoundes sensible people, but I suspect that
John was using the other interpretation of that phrase.


My favorite Nixon crack was when he said "Don't confuse me with the
facts..."

Trump, being fact free, is in no danger of confounding anyone with
common sense or facts.

Him being confounded by the same is a decided, proven fact.

Phil Hobbs
Guest

Mon Dec 31, 2018 3:45 am   



On 12/30/18 10:36 AM, Cursitor Doom wrote:
Quote:
On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 20:58:28 -0500, Phil Hobbs wrote:

Oh, well. Maybe you folks will have to step up and fund your own
defence, like grown-ups.

It's about time! NATO is long overdue for reform. All that expansion into
Eastern Europe was a crazy idea and Trump certainly can't be blamed for
that.


Yup. American policy wonks have this idea that everyone wants the same
things for the same reasons, but it ain't so.

When Saipan fell, at least ten thousand Japanese civilians commited mass
suicide, many by jumping off the cliffs. (*)

You'd have thought that mass suicide would have been enough to disabuse
Americans of the idea that we're all alike under the skin, but no. Nor
has their iterated failure in 'nation building' in places whose history
is very different from theirs, such as Vietnam, Cambodia, Iraq,
Afghanistan, and even Central America. Post-war Germany and Japan were
successes, generally speaking, but both had been self-consciously
involved in Western civilization for centuries already. (Okay, Japan
for only one century, but still.)

Everywhere else that 'regime change' has been tried, we've screwed it
up. We can knock off Khadafys and Saddams, but to little avail. Do we
learn? No.

We talk about 'self-determination' of various groups *ad nauseam*, but
somehow never apply it to people we don't like, e.g. the Great Russian
majority in eastern Ukraine and the Crimea.

I really like Americans. I've lived among them for 35 years now. I love
their big hearts close up, but unfortunately that's part of the problem
in the wider world. When it comes to foreign policy, I think that the
vast majority are blinded by their own good will--they want to think
that others feel the same way towards them. It's a very understandable
sentiment, and a good one, but almost entirely wrong.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

(*) They probably had some help from their own military, but somehow a
man with a gun isn't as impressive when the alternative is jumping off a
750-foot cliff.


Guest

Mon Dec 31, 2018 5:45 am   



On Monday, December 31, 2018 at 1:41:31 PM UTC+11, Phil Hobbs wrote:
Quote:
On 12/30/18 10:36 AM, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sat, 29 Dec 2018 20:58:28 -0500, Phil Hobbs wrote:

Oh, well. Maybe you folks will have to step up and fund your own
defence, like grown-ups.

It's about time! NATO is long overdue for reform. All that expansion into
Eastern Europe was a crazy idea and Trump certainly can't be blamed for
that.

Yup. American policy wonks have this idea that everyone wants the same
things for the same reasons, but it ain't so.


Some American right-wingers have the strange idea that all American policy wonks share the same government-issue set of basic ideas.

<snip>

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

gregz
Guest

Mon Dec 31, 2018 9:45 am   



amdx <nojunk_at_knology.net> wrote:
Quote:
It seems so.


I wanted to see more info about the rally that Hillary Clinton had in
Canada (few showed up) and searched google with Hillarys canadian rally flop.
Of the first 20 hits 4 were off topic, (Car rallys, book).
7 hits that were about Hillary and 8 were negative articles about Trump.
I think Google might be shaping their search engine to put Trump
in a negative light.

I did the same in DuckDuckgo, 9 hits on Hillary, 10 hits that were
either off topic, irrelevant or a poll result, and 1 hit about
Trump and it was quoting what he said about Hillary and the boarder.

I think it's time to reshape Google.


I was looking for this info I heard about poor attendance at my morning
coffee meetup, but never saw anything in the media about it.
https://ilovemyfreedom.org/not-interested-bill-and-hillarys-speaking-tour-flops-barely-fills-17-percent-of-arena/

I had to change Rally to fundraiser to find this.
Mikek


Not only Trump, but subjects of any conspiracy are lost in shuffle. I
noticed that several months ago when You Tube began it's deletions.

Greg

Nomen Nescio
Guest

Mon Dec 31, 2018 5:33 pm   



amdx <nojunk_at_knology.net> wrote:
Quote:
It seems so.


I wanted to see more info about the rally that Hillary Clinton had in
Canada (few showed up) and searched google with Hillarys canadian rally
flop.
Of the first 20 hits 4 were off topic, (Car rallys, book).
7 hits that were about Hillary and 8 were negative articles about Trump.
I think Google might be shaping their search engine to put Trump
in a negative light.

I did the same in DuckDuckgo, 9 hits on Hillary, 10 hits that were
either off topic, irrelevant or a poll result, and 1 hit about
Trump and it was quoting what he said about Hillary and the boarder.

I think it's time to reshape Google.


I was looking for this info I heard about poor attendance at my
morning coffee meetup, but never saw anything in the media about it.

https://ilovemyfreedom.org/not-interested-bill-and-hillarys-speaking-tour-flops-barely-fills-17-percent-of-arena/

I had to change Rally to fundraiser to find this.


search.yahoo.com shows that website first. google, youtube (but I repeat myself), facebook, twitter, amazon, ... want to be the new gatekeepers and censors. at best you get fed a bunch of click bait. we're back to the old days of asking questions on maillists and news...

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