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Guest

Tue Jan 15, 2019 4:45 am   



Think he is getting any response ? People might go to school to get the piece of paper no matter how inept they are, but this place is for people who really want to learn. If I was in school, well I might want to see that shit but I would try the test first to see where the holes are in my knowledge lattice. Believe me they exist.

But this can be a placemarker to let us know when the interruption started.

Do they really sell those test cheat sheets ? If they really do I don't have much confidence in people. I don't do shit for a piece of paper, I want the ABILITY. I want to KNOW. The grade doesn't mean shit really. What, don't hire me because of not good enough grades ? Those grades are given out by people who usually can't DO. Not always but...

Is it big business to sell cheats so people can get certified and dimplomaed for shit in which they are not competent ? That would explain a few things.

John Larkin
Guest

Wed Jan 16, 2019 6:45 pm   



On Mon, 14 Jan 2019 19:21:37 -0800 (PST), jurb6006_at_gmail.com wrote:

Quote:
Think he is getting any response ? People might go to school to get the piece of paper no matter how inept they are, but this place is for people who really want to learn. If I was in school, well I might want to see that shit but I would try the test first to see where the holes are in my knowledge lattice. Believe me they exist.

But this can be a placemarker to let us know when the interruption started.

Do they really sell those test cheat sheets ? If they really do I don't have much confidence in people. I don't do shit for a piece of paper, I want the ABILITY. I want to KNOW. The grade doesn't mean shit really. What, don't hire me because of not good enough grades ? Those grades are given out by people who usually can't DO. Not always but...

Is it big business to sell cheats so people can get certified and dimplomaed for shit in which they are not competent ? That would explain a few things.


We don't know or care about anybody's GPA or test scores. Five minutes
on a whiteboard will tell me if an EE grad actually understands
electricity. Most don't.

10 volt battery, 9K and 1K resistors in series. What's the voltage
across the 1K? I had one kid instantly reply "one volt" without
thinking, so I hired him as an intern. A month later, he was
full-time.


--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

lunatic fringe electronics

Cursitor Doom
Guest

Thu Jan 17, 2019 6:45 pm   



On Wed, 16 Jan 2019 09:25:38 -0800, John Larkin wrote:

Quote:
10 volt battery, 9K and 1K resistors in series. What's the voltage
across the 1K? I had one kid instantly reply "one volt" without
thinking, so I hired him as an intern. A month later, he was full-time.


Sorry, John, that's a fail. You didn't state the internal resistance of
the battery. ;->





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John Larkin
Guest

Thu Jan 17, 2019 9:45 pm   



On Thu, 17 Jan 2019 17:30:11 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom
<curd_at_notformail.com> wrote:

Quote:
On Wed, 16 Jan 2019 09:25:38 -0800, John Larkin wrote:

10 volt battery, 9K and 1K resistors in series. What's the voltage
across the 1K? I had one kid instantly reply "one volt" without
thinking, so I hired him as an intern. A month later, he was full-time.

Sorry, John, that's a fail. You didn't state the internal resistance of
the battery. ;-


OK, I'll fire him after lunch.



--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
picosecond timing precision measurement

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com

Tom Biasi
Guest

Fri Jan 18, 2019 5:45 am   



On 1/17/2019 3:26 PM, John Larkin wrote:
Quote:
On Thu, 17 Jan 2019 17:30:11 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom
curd_at_notformail.com> wrote:

On Wed, 16 Jan 2019 09:25:38 -0800, John Larkin wrote:

10 volt battery, 9K and 1K resistors in series. What's the voltage
across the 1K? I had one kid instantly reply "one volt" without
thinking, so I hired him as an intern. A month later, he was full-time.

Sorry, John, that's a fail. You didn't state the internal resistance of
the battery. ;-

OK, I'll fire him after lunch.



Blackboard devices are perfect. If the battery was to have an internal
resistance it should have been drawn in.

John Larkin
Guest

Fri Jan 18, 2019 6:45 am   



On Thu, 17 Jan 2019 23:03:46 -0500, Tom Biasi <tombiasi_at_optonline.net>
wrote:

Quote:
On 1/17/2019 3:26 PM, John Larkin wrote:
On Thu, 17 Jan 2019 17:30:11 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom
curd_at_notformail.com> wrote:

On Wed, 16 Jan 2019 09:25:38 -0800, John Larkin wrote:

10 volt battery, 9K and 1K resistors in series. What's the voltage
across the 1K? I had one kid instantly reply "one volt" without
thinking, so I hired him as an intern. A month later, he was full-time.

Sorry, John, that's a fail. You didn't state the internal resistance of
the battery. ;-

OK, I'll fire him after lunch.



Blackboard devices are perfect. If the battery was to have an internal
resistance it should have been drawn in.


Most batteries will stand up to a 1 mA load pretty well.

I'll let him off with a warning.


--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

lunatic fringe electronics

Cursitor Doom
Guest

Fri Jan 18, 2019 4:45 pm   



On Thu, 17 Jan 2019 23:03:46 -0500, Tom Biasi wrote:

Quote:
Blackboard devices are perfect. If the battery was to have an internal
resistance it should have been drawn in.


If I'd been asked that question as a fresh graduate applying for his
first job, I've had assumed there *must* be a trap there somewhere; it's
an absurdly simple a question to ask someone who's just got his EE degree.
"A stiff 10V source" would have been unambiguous.





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This message may be freely reproduced without limit or charge only via
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protocols, whether for profit or not, is conditional upon a charge of
GBP10.00 per reproduction. Publication in this manner via non-Usenet
protocols constitutes acceptance of this condition.

John Larkin
Guest

Fri Jan 18, 2019 5:45 pm   



On Fri, 18 Jan 2019 15:19:15 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom
<curd_at_notformail.com> wrote:

Quote:
On Thu, 17 Jan 2019 23:03:46 -0500, Tom Biasi wrote:

Blackboard devices are perfect. If the battery was to have an internal
resistance it should have been drawn in.

If I'd been asked that question as a fresh graduate applying for his
first job, I've had assumed there *must* be a trap there somewhere; it's
an absurdly simple a question to ask someone who's just got his EE degree.
"A stiff 10V source" would have been unambiguous.


There was no trap. Most recent EE grads panic when asked that
question.

If they understand anything about how a transistor works, they get a
job offer. Most recent grads have had some sort of VLSI design course
but don't know how a mosfet works.




--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

lunatic fringe electronics

Phil Hobbs
Guest

Fri Jan 18, 2019 6:45 pm   



On 1/18/19 11:07 AM, John Larkin wrote:
Quote:
On Fri, 18 Jan 2019 15:19:15 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom
curd_at_notformail.com> wrote:

On Thu, 17 Jan 2019 23:03:46 -0500, Tom Biasi wrote:

Blackboard devices are perfect. If the battery was to have an internal
resistance it should have been drawn in.

If I'd been asked that question as a fresh graduate applying for his
first job, I've had assumed there *must* be a trap there somewhere; it's
an absurdly simple a question to ask someone who's just got his EE degree.
"A stiff 10V source" would have been unambiguous.

There was no trap. Most recent EE grads panic when asked that
question.

If they understand anything about how a transistor works, they get a
job offer. Most recent grads have had some sort of VLSI design course
but don't know how a mosfet works.




A lot of it is the fault of the high schools. Profs I know complain
that they've had to dumb down their courses because the kids can't
handle the real thing. And this is in good places such as MIT and CU
Boulder.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com

Tom Gardner
Guest

Fri Jan 18, 2019 7:45 pm   



On 18/01/19 16:57, Phil Hobbs wrote:
Quote:
On 1/18/19 11:07 AM, John Larkin wrote:
On Fri, 18 Jan 2019 15:19:15 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom
curd_at_notformail.com> wrote:

On Thu, 17 Jan 2019 23:03:46 -0500, Tom Biasi wrote:

Blackboard devices are perfect. If the battery was to have an internal
resistance it should have been drawn in.

If I'd been asked that question as a fresh graduate applying for his
first job, I've had assumed there *must* be a trap there somewhere; it's
an absurdly simple a question to ask someone who's just got his EE degree.
"A stiff 10V source" would have been unambiguous.

There was no trap. Most recent EE grads panic when asked that
question.

If they understand anything about how a transistor works, they get a
job offer. Most recent grads have had some sort of VLSI design course
but don't know how a mosfet works.




A lot of it is the fault of the high schools.  Profs I know complain that
they've had to dumb down their courses because the kids can't handle the real
thing.  And this is in good places such as MIT and CU Boulder.


I was taught semiconductor bandgap theory and simple
electronics in Physics at my state school (i.e. before
university).

The teacher did a pretty good job of it too, and noted that
although it was on the syllabus, there had never been a
question on it in the formal external "A-level" exam.

They also allowed us to play with scopes at lunch and
had a supply of transistors that we could pull of
surplus PCBs.

The downside was that thermodynamics wasn't taught.

Ralph Mowery
Guest

Fri Jan 18, 2019 8:45 pm   



In article <q1qe33$sii$1_at_dont-email.me>, curd_at_notformail.com says...
Quote:

10 volt battery, 9K and 1K resistors in series. What's the voltage
across the 1K? I had one kid instantly reply "one volt" without
thinking, so I hired him as an intern. A month later, he was full-time.

Sorry, John, that's a fail. You didn't state the internal resistance of
the battery. ;-






With all that is given, any battery worth while will have an internal
resistance large enough to take it out of the equation. Also the
tollorence of the resitors are not stated, neither is how accurate is
the meter. Too much fly poop in the pepper.

Even if the battery resistance is 10 ohms the answer would have to be
moved out many decimal places. For most work who cares if it is .99
volts. For most repairs if you measure to 5 or maybe even 10 % that is
close enough.

Cursitor Doom
Guest

Fri Jan 18, 2019 8:45 pm   



On Fri, 18 Jan 2019 08:07:14 -0800, John Larkin wrote:

Quote:
There was no trap. Most recent EE grads panic when asked that question.

If they understand anything about how a transistor works, they get a job
offer. Most recent grads have had some sort of VLSI design course but
don't know how a mosfet works.


I recall you've given examples of how poorly educated today's EE grads
are several times in the past. I just find it quite extraordinary how
standards can have fallen so low from what they once were. How can they
*not* know how a mosfet works?? I knew that before the age of ten just by
reading a few books. What the fuck are they teaching them nowadays?? :-(





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This message may be freely reproduced without limit or charge only via
the Usenet protocol. Reproduction in whole or part through other
protocols, whether for profit or not, is conditional upon a charge of
GBP10.00 per reproduction. Publication in this manner via non-Usenet
protocols constitutes acceptance of this condition.


Guest

Sat Jan 19, 2019 12:45 am   



Quote:
"I knew that before the age of ten just by
reading a few books"


Yeah, now go brag bout being born later. When I was born KID there weren't no sucha thing as a MOSFET. All we had was JFETs.

Deal with that !

Cursitor Doom
Guest

Sat Jan 19, 2019 1:45 am   



On Fri, 18 Jan 2019 15:10:03 -0800, jurb6006 wrote:

Quote:
"I knew that before the age of ten just by
reading a few books"

Yeah, now go brag bout being born later. When I was born KID there
weren't no sucha thing as a MOSFET. All we had was JFETs.

Deal with that !


And thermionic valves. I remember all the books at that time explained so
much about valves and so much about transistors; 50-50 roughly. Soon all
the valves (toobs) were dropped from new books. I found valves were *so*
much easier to understand than BJTs. I didn't fully understand trannies
until I was maybe 15. Never really gelled with the beta paradigm, was
much more into the Vbe model. Funny how EEs are all either one or the
other. We had a discussion on Vbe vs. Beta models on SED a while back; we
were totally split down the middle on which we preferred to use. I mean
like *right* down the middle. Weird.





--
This message may be freely reproduced without limit or charge only via
the Usenet protocol. Reproduction in whole or part through other
protocols, whether for profit or not, is conditional upon a charge of
GBP10.00 per reproduction. Publication in this manner via non-Usenet
protocols constitutes acceptance of this condition.

Phil Hobbs
Guest

Sat Jan 19, 2019 1:45 am   



On 1/18/19 6:51 PM, Cursitor Doom wrote:
Quote:
On Fri, 18 Jan 2019 15:10:03 -0800, jurb6006 wrote:

"I knew that before the age of ten just by
reading a few books"

Yeah, now go brag bout being born later. When I was born KID there
weren't no sucha thing as a MOSFET. All we had was JFETs.

Deal with that !

And thermionic valves. I remember all the books at that time
explained so much about valves and so much about transistors; 50-50
roughly. Soon all the valves (toobs) were dropped from new books. I
found valves were *so* much easier to understand than BJTs.


Triodes, anyway. Tetrodes, not so much. Klystrons, nowhere close.
Most of my early projects were built from tubes, which was pretty retro
in the 1970s. A few of them sort-of worked. ;)

> I didn't fully understand trannies until I was maybe 15.

So how does Pease's negative voltage generator work? ;)

Quote:
Never really gelled with the beta paradigm, was much more into the
Vbe model. Funny how EEs are all either one or the other. We had a
discussion on Vbe vs. Beta models on SED a while back; we were
totally split down the middle on which we preferred to use. I mean
like *right* down the middle. Weird.


Even with tightly-specced transistors, beta varies 2:1 at a given
current. Ebers-Moll is way, way tighter than that--two random BJTs at
the same temperature and collector current will have the same
transconductance to very high accuracy. There are offsets due
to die size and device details, but there's nothing comparable in any
other active device.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com

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