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Guest

Thu Dec 20, 2018 1:45 am   



On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 16:36:06 -0600, Jon Elson <elson_at_pico-systems.com>
wrote:

Quote:
On Tue, 18 Dec 2018 14:09:12 -0800, etpm wrote:


Yes, I have considered replacing the control. And I consider it
more every day. I have done this before and it worked well. This machine
has a turret, tailstock, and counter that would need some sort of PLC
programming to interface with the control. I might need to learn ladder
programming again.
LinuxCNC contains a real-time version of Classic Ladder, a ladder logic
implemented in software, that can be interconnected with other components
in the motion and G-code interpreting sections. This is great for tool
turrets and similar systems.

The problem with changing the control is that I need enough time
when the machine is not needed to make the swap.
Yes, certainly the classic conundrum! But, once you do it, you will be
greatly relieved to know that the system is 100 X more reliable, and you
can fix anything that goes wrong with modern and affordable parts.

Jon

I appreciate your posts Jon. I have been looking at LinuxCNC as has
my son. In an effort to convince me to upgrade the control.
You said: "I'm pretty sure somebody did this about a year ago in
LinuxCNC. It should be pretty trivial to implement this even in the
G-code, with the entire program in a do while loop, and the counter as
a numbered variable. You could also display the counter value on the
virtual control panel." I don't know what a do while loop is. I'm sure
it's easy enough to find out though. As long as the programming
doesn't change I don't really care. I mean, as long as all my old
programs will work the same without needing any changes. Having the
count displayed on the main display is fine but it would be best if
the original counter operated the way it does now. That is, a number
is entered via the thumbwheels on the counter and then when the
displayed count reaches that number the counter sends a signal to the
machine and it stops. Because the counter is not involved in the
programming, except that it is incremented by an M code, the count can
be changed while a part is running. Which I have done more than once.
If I was able to read the ladder programming in the eproms that
control the machine would I just be able to cut and paste it into the
LinuxCNC software? Man, would that make life easy. If a breakout board
can be made to act just like the existing boards then maybe the
control will be pretty close to plug and play. Can it really be that
easy?
Eric

Jeff Liebermann
Guest

Thu Dec 20, 2018 7:45 am   



On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 16:40:14 -0600, Jon Elson <elson_at_pico-systems.com>
wrote:

Quote:
On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 08:28:08 -0800, etpm wrote:


The counter is different than just a a part counter. It increments
by an M code. So only if the program has this code does it count. Once
it reaches a pre-set number it send a signal to the machine to stop once
the program running ends. The control itself has a switch for continuous
running that works in conjunction with the counter. For many jobs this
feature is a huge plus. I load stock and the machine keeps making part
after part. I can program the machine to make some many parts and then
stop with another M code but if the program needs to be restarted for
any reason, which is common when setting up, the count is also
restarted. The counter only counts when the program actually finishes a
part. So whatever new control I put on must have this feature. It is
very convenient and saves lots of time.

I'm pretty sure somebody did this about a year ago in LinuxCNC. It
should be pretty trivial to implement this even in the G-code, with the
entire program in a do while loop, and the counter as a numbered variable.
You could also display the counter value on the virtual control panel.
Jon


This might help with the parts counter function:

"Parts counter M code?"
<https://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/cnc-machining/parts-counter-m-code-290803/>

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl_at_cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Jon Elson
Guest

Sat Dec 22, 2018 10:45 pm   



etpm_at_whidbey.com wrote:

Quote:
On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 16:36:06 -0600, Jon Elson <elson_at_pico-systems.com
wrote:

I appreciate your posts Jon. I have been looking at LinuxCNC as has
my son. In an effort to convince me to upgrade the control.
You said: "I'm pretty sure somebody did this about a year ago in
LinuxCNC. It should be pretty trivial to implement this even in the
G-code, with the entire program in a do while loop, and the counter as
a numbered variable. You could also display the counter value on the
virtual control panel."

I don't know what a do while loop is.

LinuxCNC has added a number of features to the basic G-Code language,
turning it into an actual programming language. So, you can write G-code
that is "parameterized", so you can set a few variables and then the G-code
loops and computes the actual coordinates based on those numbers given at
the start.

In your specific case, you would enclose YOUR entire G-code program within a
couple lines, like this:
#1 = 500 (do 500 parts)
O100 WHILE [#1 GT 0]
< your program goes here >
#1 = #1 - 1
O100 ENDWHILE
M02

See http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gcode/o-code.html#ocode:looping for more
info. But, the sceme here is you set user variable 1 to 500, then the WHILE
loop executes your program 500 times, and decrements variable 1 at the end
of each run of the program. When variable 1 decrements all the way to zero,
the machine stops. And, to get tricky, LinuxCNC has a virtual control panel
that can put indicators and buttons on the screen. I use it to show touch
probe status and spindle speed, but you can put nearly anything on there,
such as the value of that variable.

Quote:
I'm sure
it's easy enough to find out though. As long as the programming
doesn't change I don't really care. I mean, as long as all my old
programs will work the same without needing any changes. Having the
count displayed on the main display is fine but it would be best if
the original counter operated the way it does now.

That may involve adding a couple IO points to the hal configuration, but
could certainly be done.

Jon


Guest

Wed Dec 26, 2018 10:45 pm   



On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 15:26:13 -0600, Jon Elson <elson_at_pico-systems.com>
wrote:

Quote:
etpm_at_whidbey.com wrote:

On Wed, 19 Dec 2018 16:36:06 -0600, Jon Elson <elson_at_pico-systems.com
wrote:

I appreciate your posts Jon. I have been looking at LinuxCNC as has
my son. In an effort to convince me to upgrade the control.
You said: "I'm pretty sure somebody did this about a year ago in
LinuxCNC. It should be pretty trivial to implement this even in the
G-code, with the entire program in a do while loop, and the counter as
a numbered variable. You could also display the counter value on the
virtual control panel."

I don't know what a do while loop is.
LinuxCNC has added a number of features to the basic G-Code language,
turning it into an actual programming language. So, you can write G-code
that is "parameterized", so you can set a few variables and then the G-code
loops and computes the actual coordinates based on those numbers given at
the start.

In your specific case, you would enclose YOUR entire G-code program within a
couple lines, like this:
#1 = 500 (do 500 parts)
O100 WHILE [#1 GT 0]
your program goes here
#1 = #1 - 1
O100 ENDWHILE
M02

See http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gcode/o-code.html#ocode:looping for more
info. But, the sceme here is you set user variable 1 to 500, then the WHILE
loop executes your program 500 times, and decrements variable 1 at the end
of each run of the program. When variable 1 decrements all the way to zero,
the machine stops. And, to get tricky, LinuxCNC has a virtual control panel
that can put indicators and buttons on the screen. I use it to show touch
probe status and spindle speed, but you can put nearly anything on there,
such as the value of that variable.


I can already do the above with an M code. The machine counter works
a little differently.
Quote:

I'm sure
it's easy enough to find out though. As long as the programming
doesn't change I don't really care. I mean, as long as all my old
programs will work the same without needing any changes. Having the
count displayed on the main display is fine but it would be best if
the original counter operated the way it does now.
That may involve adding a couple IO points to the hal configuration, but
could certainly be done.

Jon

Our power went off during a windstorm last week and then holiday
stuff came up but today I finally got back into the shop and had a
look inside the control cabinet to get an idea of what would be
involved, doing a swap.
There are 25 connectors from the main control board going into the
machine side. I want to use these connectors, all of them. So if
Honda connectors are still available then it looks to me like the best
way to go is to build a breakout board to interface the new control to
the machine through the existing Honda connectors.
Some connectors only use a few of the pins in the connector while
others use most or all. So there might be as many as 30 connections
being made in one connector. Many of the connectors are for connecting
a bunch of relays to the control. These relays in turn often connect
to bigger contactors.
A lot of the connectors bring the inputs from switches to the
control. 66 switches in total not counting the various limit and
pressure switches. And many of the switches have multiple positions.
With a new control a new keyboard could be used, and probably needs
to be unless Linux CNC will emulate a Fanuc 3T keyboard.
Anyway, it looks like a big project so I need to start getting
everything together and ready for a plug and play swap. Plug and play
is a big reason I want to use the original connectors. That way the
new control can be plugged in without removing the old one. Testing
can be done and if I hit any major snags then the old control can be
plugged in and the lathe can make parts while I work out the bugs.
Eric

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