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Ron Hubbard
Guest
Guest
Thu Jan 12, 2012 1:09 am
I use the Exar XR2206 function generator in a lot of my projects but
now I see-- at least according to Mouser-- that the IC has become
obsolete? Since when? Why? How can such a useful chip become
discontinued? This not right!
Ron
Michael Black
Guest
Guest
Thu Jan 12, 2012 5:55 am
On Wed, 11 Jan 2012, Ron Hubbard wrote:
Quote:
I use the Exar XR2206 function generator in a lot of my projects but
now I see-- at least according to Mouser-- that the IC has become
obsolete? Since when? Why? How can such a useful chip become
discontinued? This not right!
It's somewhere about 40 years old. I can remember "new product" type
now I see-- at least according to Mouser-- that the IC has become
obsolete? Since when? Why? How can such a useful chip become
discontinued? This not right!
It's somewhere about 40 years old. I can remember "new product" type
columns that dealt with it about 1974, but can't remember if it was around
before that. The Intersil 8038 function generator is older than 1974.
About 40 years is pretty long time. I remember decades ago how fast
things came along, and that often meant taking over from some older
device. It seemed at the time that a given IC would have a shorter
lifespan than a given tube, and then later it seemed like a surprise that
some ICs had actually lasted quite a long time.
Some of it is that other things have come along. But also, things have
changed. Back then, it was hard to do a function generator except in
analog, in more recent times there are digital ways of doing it, and
digital has certain advantage.
It's also important to note that ICs were never really introduced for
hobbyists. An IC had to have some potential market, and that meant in
some piece of equipment that would hopefully sell enough that the IC
company would sell many of those ICs. Any time a device found it's way
into hobbyist circles, it was because there was some demand somewhere out
there for the device in the first place.
And so forty years ago, there was some market for an analog function
generator. The XR was especially good since it was cheap, so it wasn't
just in "function generators" (ie a piece of test equipment that generated
signals) but for various instances where some sort of signal was needed.
As long as there was enough large demand for an IC, it stayed in
production. But analog is fussy, and a lot of the secondary uses for a
cheap function generator IC can easily be done with digital, especially
when a piece of equipment already includes a CPU. Even if someone is
manufacturing a function generator, they likely would start in digital.
So all those modems that used the 2206 (I think they were used in some) no
longer need them, since digital is better, besides the period when the
2206 could form a modem went out with about the 300baud modems. I think
the 2206 was used in some of the cheaper analog music synthesizers, but
nowadays most music synthesis is done in digital. The demand is no longer
there.
That said, just because an IC is no longer in productin doesn't mean it
won't be available for some time. Especially not a popular IC that was
around for forty years. There will be stock around, to fulfill repair
requirements, and because so many were made over so many years it won't
all dry up immediately. And once no one is manufacturing with them, a
"reasonable supply" is likely to be more than enough for those who
actually want to use the IC. Or if the IC was popular enough, cheap
enough, common enough, chances are there is an endless supply sitting in
all kinds of parts drawers on all kinds of workbenches, bought because it
was an interesting IC or because someone needed to pad an order to fulfill
a minimum order, or for some specific project that was never gotten around
to.
Michael
Michael A. Terrell
Guest
Guest
Thu Jan 12, 2012 1:25 pm
Ron Hubbard wrote:
Quote:
I use the Exar XR2206 function generator in a lot of my projects but
now I see-- at least according to Mouser-- that the IC has become
obsolete? Since when? Why? How can such a useful chip become
discontinued? This not right!
What's not right about dropping obsolete parts?
Jameco still has some in stock. They are a good place to find EOL
parts.
<http://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10001_10001_34972_-1>
--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense.
George Herold
Guest
Guest
Thu Jan 12, 2012 7:20 pm
On Jan 11, 6:09 pm, Ron Hubbard <or...@dslnorthwest.net> wrote:
Quote:
I use the Exar XR2206 function generator in a lot of my projects but
now I see-- at least according to Mouser-- that the IC has become
obsolete? Since when? Why? How can such a useful chip become
discontinued? This not right!
Ron
now I see-- at least according to Mouser-- that the IC has become
obsolete? Since when? Why? How can such a useful chip become
discontinued? This not right!
Ron
Does this have the same pinout as the ICL8038? We've got several
tubes of those in stock... (never to be used)
(I could stick a few in the mail?)
I think digital signal generation and PIC's (etc) were the death of
the old analog function generator chips.
George H.
Michael A. Terrell
Guest
Guest
Thu Jan 12, 2012 7:41 pm
Ron Hubbard wrote:
Quote:
On Jan 12, 4:25 am, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terr...@earthlink.net
wrote:
Ron Hubbard wrote:
I use the Exar XR2206 function generator in a lot of my projects but
now I see-- at least according to Mouser-- that the IC has become
obsolete? Since when? Why? How can such a useful chip become
discontinued? This not right!
What's not right about dropping obsolete parts?
Well, it'd be kind of like killing off the 555/7555.
What manufacturer has declared them obsolete? The 558 is obsolete,
but how many people needed four 555 timers in a single package?
Obsolete means that there isn't enough demand to keep making a part.
hell, you can still buy new fenders for a Ford'Model T', made with the
original dies.
Quote:
Think about all
those thousands?-- millions?--- of circuits that use the 555 IC. While
not so ubiquitous, the 2206 is an incredibly useful little IC. I don't
know of any other chip where you get a sine wave past 1 MHz with so
few parts let alone triangle waves. I know there other function
generator chips, but if you need to pack it into a small space--- say,
you were making something really funky like a sonic screwdriver--- the
2206 and its associated parts can easily be put on a very narrow piece
of perfboard; ya can't do that with the 8038 or the other similar
chips.
those thousands?-- millions?--- of circuits that use the 555 IC. While
not so ubiquitous, the 2206 is an incredibly useful little IC. I don't
know of any other chip where you get a sine wave past 1 MHz with so
few parts let alone triangle waves. I know there other function
generator chips, but if you need to pack it into a small space--- say,
you were making something really funky like a sonic screwdriver--- the
2206 and its associated parts can easily be put on a very narrow piece
of perfboard; ya can't do that with the 8038 or the other similar
chips.
No one cares, if you are the only person who wants to buy them. What
other function generator chips are still in production? A DDS &
microprocessor is the way it's done now. The AD8950 is smaller than the
XR2206, but it does take some brains to use.
I see that you snipped the link of where you can still buy them, and
the link indicates they still have over 100 in stock.
--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense.
Ron Hubbard
Guest
Guest
Thu Jan 12, 2012 8:13 pm
On Jan 12, 4:25 am, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terr...@earthlink.net>
wrote:
Quote:
Ron Hubbard wrote:
I use the Exar XR2206 function generator in a lot of my projects but
now I see-- at least according to Mouser-- that the IC has become
obsolete? Since when? Why? How can such a useful chip become
discontinued? This not right!
What's not right about dropping obsolete parts?
I use the Exar XR2206 function generator in a lot of my projects but
now I see-- at least according to Mouser-- that the IC has become
obsolete? Since when? Why? How can such a useful chip become
discontinued? This not right!
What's not right about dropping obsolete parts?
Well, it'd be kind of like killing off the 555/7555. Think about all
those thousands?-- millions?--- of circuits that use the 555 IC. While
not so ubiquitous, the 2206 is an incredibly useful little IC. I don't
know of any other chip where you get a sine wave past 1 MHz with so
few parts let alone triangle waves. I know there other function
generator chips, but if you need to pack it into a small space--- say,
you were making something really funky like a sonic screwdriver--- the
2206 and its associated parts can easily be put on a very narrow piece
of perfboard; ya can't do that with the 8038 or the other similar
chips.
Ron
Ron Hubbard
Guest
Guest
Thu Jan 12, 2012 10:07 pm
On Jan 12, 11:32 am, Michael Black <et...@ncf.ca> wrote:
Quote:
On Thu, 12 Jan 2012, Ron Hubbard wrote:
On Jan 12, 4:25 am, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terr...@earthlink.net
wrote:
Ron Hubbard wrote:
I use the Exar XR2206 function generator in a lot of my projects but
now I see-- at least according to Mouser-- that the IC has become
obsolete? Since when? Why? How can such a useful chip become
discontinued? This not right!
What's not right about dropping obsolete parts?
Well, it'd be kind of like killing off the 555/7555. Think about all
those thousands?-- millions?--- of circuits that use the 555 IC. While
not so ubiquitous, the 2206 is an incredibly useful little IC. I don't
know of any other chip where you get a sine wave past 1 MHz with so
few parts let alone triangle waves. I know there other function
generator chips, but if you need to pack it into a small space--- say,
you were making something really funky like a sonic screwdriver--- the
2206 and its associated parts can easily be put on a very narrow piece
of perfboard; ya can't do that with the 8038 or the other similar
chips.
I would never consider using a 2206 at 1Mhz. It really is stretching the
device, while some other device more suitable for "rf" makes it simple
again.
No, we're saying the whole concept of an analog function generator on an
IC is in the past, not that one device is obsolete and others aren't.
I have no idea what you mean by a "sonic screwdriver", but if you don't
need frequency range, there are lots of other solutions.
On Jan 12, 4:25 am, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terr...@earthlink.net
wrote:
Ron Hubbard wrote:
I use the Exar XR2206 function generator in a lot of my projects but
now I see-- at least according to Mouser-- that the IC has become
obsolete? Since when? Why? How can such a useful chip become
discontinued? This not right!
What's not right about dropping obsolete parts?
Well, it'd be kind of like killing off the 555/7555. Think about all
those thousands?-- millions?--- of circuits that use the 555 IC. While
not so ubiquitous, the 2206 is an incredibly useful little IC. I don't
know of any other chip where you get a sine wave past 1 MHz with so
few parts let alone triangle waves. I know there other function
generator chips, but if you need to pack it into a small space--- say,
you were making something really funky like a sonic screwdriver--- the
2206 and its associated parts can easily be put on a very narrow piece
of perfboard; ya can't do that with the 8038 or the other similar
chips.
I would never consider using a 2206 at 1Mhz. It really is stretching the
device, while some other device more suitable for "rf" makes it simple
again.
No, we're saying the whole concept of an analog function generator on an
IC is in the past, not that one device is obsolete and others aren't.
I have no idea what you mean by a "sonic screwdriver", but if you don't
need frequency range, there are lots of other solutions.
Not a Doctor Who fan I take it... A sonic screwdriver in fiction is a
multi-purpose pocket-sized tool that does just about everything but
make coffee. Most people say it can't be done in the real world but
like so many things, most people are wrong.
While it's not much more than a hi-tech toy. my circuit can produce a
whopping 143 dB of 13 kHz ultrasound that *will* turn screws (some of
them anyway), turn keys in locks, spin dinner plates, drive your
neighbor mad, and do other silly but cool tricks. while not exactly
the tool of choice on many occasions, a lot of people
have expressed interest in making one and the XR2206 is a very
critical part to frquency modulate the main ultrasonic beam fro 1 Hz
to 100 Hz.
http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?p=3702452&posted=1#post3702452
Quote:
If you only need
one type of waveform, there are other solutions, especially if it's not a
sinewave you need
one type of waveform, there are other solutions, especially if it's not a
sinewave you need
Ahh, but that's why the 2206 is such a beautiful chip: it does produce
nice sine waves with a minimum of support parts and the harmonic
distortion can be reduced if anyone wants to take the trouble of
putting in a small pot instead of a fixed resistor and checking the
output on a 'scope but why bother.
Ron
..
________
"Care for a jelly baby?"
-- the 4th Doctor --
asdf
Guest
Guest
Fri Jan 13, 2012 3:19 am
On Thu, 12 Jan 2012 14:27:00 -0500, Michael Black wrote:
Quote:
No, they are not compatible, indeed, I would argue the 2206 is better
than the 8038, coming a tad later. I may be mixing it up with another
XR function generator, but I thought the 2206 included some sort of
amplitude modulator. It's also cleaner to use.
than the 8038, coming a tad later. I may be mixing it up with another
XR function generator, but I thought the 2206 included some sort of
amplitude modulator. It's also cleaner to use.
Another nice beast was the MAX038 (totally unrelated to the ICL8038)
which would produce saw, square, sine, pulse, triangle waveforms up to 20
MHz. Sadly it was discontinued years ago and never replaced. Today I
believe DDS is the only way to go.
George Herold
Guest
Guest
Fri Jan 13, 2012 4:21 am
On Jan 12, 2:27 pm, Michael Black <et...@ncf.ca> wrote:
Quote:
On Thu, 12 Jan 2012, George Herold wrote:
On Jan 11, 6:09 pm, Ron Hubbard <or...@dslnorthwest.net> wrote:
I use the Exar XR2206 function generator in a lot of my projects but
now I see-- at least according to Mouser-- that the IC has become
obsolete? Since when? Why? How can such a useful chip become
discontinued? This not right!
Ron
Does this have the same pinout as the ICL8038? We've got several
tubes of those in stock... (never to be used)
(I could stick a few in the mail?)
No, they are not compatible, indeed, I would argue the 2206 is better than
the 8038, coming a tad later. I may be mixing it up with another XR
function generator, but I thought the 2206 included some sort of amplitude
modulator. It's also cleaner to use.
Michael
On Jan 11, 6:09 pm, Ron Hubbard <or...@dslnorthwest.net> wrote:
I use the Exar XR2206 function generator in a lot of my projects but
now I see-- at least according to Mouser-- that the IC has become
obsolete? Since when? Why? How can such a useful chip become
discontinued? This not right!
Ron
Does this have the same pinout as the ICL8038? We've got several
tubes of those in stock... (never to be used)
(I could stick a few in the mail?)
No, they are not compatible, indeed, I would argue the 2206 is better than
the 8038, coming a tad later. I may be mixing it up with another XR
function generator, but I thought the 2206 included some sort of amplitude
modulator. It's also cleaner to use.
Michael
Thanks Michael, The higher frequency *would* have been useful.
George H.
George Herold
Guest
Guest
Fri Jan 13, 2012 4:31 am
On Jan 12, 3:07 pm, Ron Hubbard <or...@dslnorthwest.net> wrote:
Quote:
On Jan 12, 11:32 am, Michael Black <et...@ncf.ca> wrote:
On Thu, 12 Jan 2012, Ron Hubbard wrote:
On Jan 12, 4:25 am, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terr...@earthlink.net
wrote:
Ron Hubbard wrote:
I use the Exar XR2206 function generator in a lot of my projects but
now I see-- at least according to Mouser-- that the IC has become
obsolete? Since when? Why? How can such a useful chip become
discontinued? This not right!
What's not right about dropping obsolete parts?
Well, it'd be kind of like killing off the 555/7555. Think about all
those thousands?-- millions?--- of circuits that use the 555 IC. While
not so ubiquitous, the 2206 is an incredibly useful little IC. I don't
know of any other chip where you get a sine wave past 1 MHz with so
few parts let alone triangle waves. I know there other function
generator chips, but if you need to pack it into a small space--- say,
you were making something really funky like a sonic screwdriver--- the
2206 and its associated parts can easily be put on a very narrow piece
of perfboard; ya can't do that with the 8038 or the other similar
chips.
I would never consider using a 2206 at 1Mhz. It really is stretching the
device, while some other device more suitable for "rf" makes it simple
again.
No, we're saying the whole concept of an analog function generator on an
IC is in the past, not that one device is obsolete and others aren't.
I have no idea what you mean by a "sonic screwdriver", but if you don't
need frequency range, there are lots of other solutions.
Not a Doctor Who fan I take it... A sonic screwdriver in fiction is a
multi-purpose pocket-sized tool that does just about everything but
make coffee. Most people say it can't be done in the real world but
like so many things, most people are wrong.
While it's not much more than a hi-tech toy. my circuit can produce a
whopping 143 dB of 13 kHz ultrasound that *will* turn screws (some of
them anyway), turn keys in locks, spin dinner plates, drive your
neighbor mad, and do other silly but cool tricks. while not exactly
the tool of choice on many occasions, a lot of people
have expressed interest in making one and the XR2206 is a very
critical part to frquency modulate the main ultrasonic beam fro 1 Hz
to 100 Hz.
http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?p=3702452&posted=1#post37....
If you only need
one type of waveform, there are other solutions, especially if it's not a
sinewave you need
Ahh, but that's why the 2206 is such a beautiful chip: it does produce
nice sine waves with a minimum of support parts and the harmonic
distortion can be reduced if anyone wants to take the trouble of
putting in a small pot instead of a fixed resistor and checking the
output on a 'scope but why bother.
Ron
.
________
"Care for a jelly baby?"
-- the 4th Doctor --- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
On Thu, 12 Jan 2012, Ron Hubbard wrote:
On Jan 12, 4:25 am, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terr...@earthlink.net
wrote:
Ron Hubbard wrote:
I use the Exar XR2206 function generator in a lot of my projects but
now I see-- at least according to Mouser-- that the IC has become
obsolete? Since when? Why? How can such a useful chip become
discontinued? This not right!
What's not right about dropping obsolete parts?
Well, it'd be kind of like killing off the 555/7555. Think about all
those thousands?-- millions?--- of circuits that use the 555 IC. While
not so ubiquitous, the 2206 is an incredibly useful little IC. I don't
know of any other chip where you get a sine wave past 1 MHz with so
few parts let alone triangle waves. I know there other function
generator chips, but if you need to pack it into a small space--- say,
you were making something really funky like a sonic screwdriver--- the
2206 and its associated parts can easily be put on a very narrow piece
of perfboard; ya can't do that with the 8038 or the other similar
chips.
I would never consider using a 2206 at 1Mhz. It really is stretching the
device, while some other device more suitable for "rf" makes it simple
again.
No, we're saying the whole concept of an analog function generator on an
IC is in the past, not that one device is obsolete and others aren't.
I have no idea what you mean by a "sonic screwdriver", but if you don't
need frequency range, there are lots of other solutions.
Not a Doctor Who fan I take it... A sonic screwdriver in fiction is a
multi-purpose pocket-sized tool that does just about everything but
make coffee. Most people say it can't be done in the real world but
like so many things, most people are wrong.
While it's not much more than a hi-tech toy. my circuit can produce a
whopping 143 dB of 13 kHz ultrasound that *will* turn screws (some of
them anyway), turn keys in locks, spin dinner plates, drive your
neighbor mad, and do other silly but cool tricks. while not exactly
the tool of choice on many occasions, a lot of people
have expressed interest in making one and the XR2206 is a very
critical part to frquency modulate the main ultrasonic beam fro 1 Hz
to 100 Hz.
http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?p=3702452&posted=1#post37....
If you only need
one type of waveform, there are other solutions, especially if it's not a
sinewave you need
Ahh, but that's why the 2206 is such a beautiful chip: it does produce
nice sine waves with a minimum of support parts and the harmonic
distortion can be reduced if anyone wants to take the trouble of
putting in a small pot instead of a fixed resistor and checking the
output on a 'scope but why bother.
Ron
.
________
"Care for a jelly baby?"
-- the 4th Doctor --- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Ron have you checked out the VCO on the CD4046? (The price is right!)
If you coddled it I think you can get a triangle wave output.
George H.
Phil Hobbs
Guest
Guest
Fri Jan 13, 2012 6:06 pm
On 01/12/2012 03:07 PM, Ron Hubbard wrote:
Quote:
On Jan 12, 11:32 am, Michael Black<et...@ncf.ca> wrote:
On Thu, 12 Jan 2012, Ron Hubbard wrote:
On Jan 12, 4:25 am, "Michael A. Terrell"<mike.terr...@earthlink.net
wrote:
Ron Hubbard wrote:
I use the Exar XR2206 function generator in a lot of my projects but
now I see-- at least according to Mouser-- that the IC has become
obsolete? Since when? Why? How can such a useful chip become
discontinued? This not right!
What's not right about dropping obsolete parts?
Well, it'd be kind of like killing off the 555/7555. Think about all
those thousands?-- millions?--- of circuits that use the 555 IC. While
not so ubiquitous, the 2206 is an incredibly useful little IC. I don't
know of any other chip where you get a sine wave past 1 MHz with so
few parts let alone triangle waves. I know there other function
generator chips, but if you need to pack it into a small space--- say,
you were making something really funky like a sonic screwdriver--- the
2206 and its associated parts can easily be put on a very narrow piece
of perfboard; ya can't do that with the 8038 or the other similar
chips.
I would never consider using a 2206 at 1Mhz. It really is stretching the
device, while some other device more suitable for "rf" makes it simple
again.
No, we're saying the whole concept of an analog function generator on an
IC is in the past, not that one device is obsolete and others aren't.
I have no idea what you mean by a "sonic screwdriver", but if you don't
need frequency range, there are lots of other solutions.
Not a Doctor Who fan I take it... A sonic screwdriver in fiction is a
multi-purpose pocket-sized tool that does just about everything but
make coffee. Most people say it can't be done in the real world but
like so many things, most people are wrong.
While it's not much more than a hi-tech toy. my circuit can produce a
whopping 143 dB of 13 kHz ultrasound that *will* turn screws (some of
them anyway), turn keys in locks, spin dinner plates, drive your
neighbor mad, and do other silly but cool tricks. while not exactly
the tool of choice on many occasions, a lot of people
have expressed interest in making one and the XR2206 is a very
critical part to frquency modulate the main ultrasonic beam fro 1 Hz
to 100 Hz.
On Thu, 12 Jan 2012, Ron Hubbard wrote:
On Jan 12, 4:25 am, "Michael A. Terrell"<mike.terr...@earthlink.net
wrote:
Ron Hubbard wrote:
I use the Exar XR2206 function generator in a lot of my projects but
now I see-- at least according to Mouser-- that the IC has become
obsolete? Since when? Why? How can such a useful chip become
discontinued? This not right!
What's not right about dropping obsolete parts?
Well, it'd be kind of like killing off the 555/7555. Think about all
those thousands?-- millions?--- of circuits that use the 555 IC. While
not so ubiquitous, the 2206 is an incredibly useful little IC. I don't
know of any other chip where you get a sine wave past 1 MHz with so
few parts let alone triangle waves. I know there other function
generator chips, but if you need to pack it into a small space--- say,
you were making something really funky like a sonic screwdriver--- the
2206 and its associated parts can easily be put on a very narrow piece
of perfboard; ya can't do that with the 8038 or the other similar
chips.
I would never consider using a 2206 at 1Mhz. It really is stretching the
device, while some other device more suitable for "rf" makes it simple
again.
No, we're saying the whole concept of an analog function generator on an
IC is in the past, not that one device is obsolete and others aren't.
I have no idea what you mean by a "sonic screwdriver", but if you don't
need frequency range, there are lots of other solutions.
Not a Doctor Who fan I take it... A sonic screwdriver in fiction is a
multi-purpose pocket-sized tool that does just about everything but
make coffee. Most people say it can't be done in the real world but
like so many things, most people are wrong.
While it's not much more than a hi-tech toy. my circuit can produce a
whopping 143 dB of 13 kHz ultrasound that *will* turn screws (some of
them anyway), turn keys in locks, spin dinner plates, drive your
neighbor mad, and do other silly but cool tricks. while not exactly
the tool of choice on many occasions, a lot of people
have expressed interest in making one and the XR2206 is a very
critical part to frquency modulate the main ultrasonic beam fro 1 Hz
to 100 Hz.
Doctor Who, I presume. A couple of questions:
143 dB compared to what? 143 dB SPL A-weighted? 143 dBm? ;)
At what range? A hearing aid can do that inside the ear--not so
whopping at all, though it would certainly hurt.
Annoying people, that I believe. Tightening screws? Not so much.
Are you related to the other Ron Hubbard (the one with the L in front)?
Cheers
Phil Hobbs
--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
160 North State Road #203
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510
845-480-2058
hobbs at electrooptical dot net
http://electrooptical.net
Phil Hobbs
Guest
Guest
Fri Jan 13, 2012 6:11 pm
On 01/12/2012 08:19 PM, asdf wrote:
Quote:
On Thu, 12 Jan 2012 14:27:00 -0500, Michael Black wrote:
No, they are not compatible, indeed, I would argue the 2206 is better
than the 8038, coming a tad later. I may be mixing it up with another
XR function generator, but I thought the 2206 included some sort of
amplitude modulator. It's also cleaner to use.
Another nice beast was the MAX038 (totally unrelated to the ICL8038)
which would produce saw, square, sine, pulse, triangle waveforms up to 20
MHz. Sadly it was discontinued years ago and never replaced. Today I
believe DDS is the only way to go.
No, they are not compatible, indeed, I would argue the 2206 is better
than the 8038, coming a tad later. I may be mixing it up with another
XR function generator, but I thought the 2206 included some sort of
amplitude modulator. It's also cleaner to use.
Another nice beast was the MAX038 (totally unrelated to the ICL8038)
which would produce saw, square, sine, pulse, triangle waveforms up to 20
MHz. Sadly it was discontinued years ago and never replaced. Today I
believe DDS is the only way to go.
One approach is to build a sine wave oscillator, and make the triangle
and square wave from that with a comparator and an op amp. The XR2206
had pretty poor THD performance due to the cheesy diode-shaping trick.
You can do a lot better by using a differential BJT pair to round off
the triangle, with one additional resistor to subtract off a bit of
triangle to get rid of the cusp. We talked about that in
sci.electronics.design a year or two back.
Cheers
Phil Hobbs
--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
160 North State Road #203
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510
845-480-2058
hobbs at electrooptical dot net
http://electrooptical.net
Ron Hubbard
Guest
Guest
Tue Jan 17, 2012 1:27 am
On Jan 13, 9:06 am, Phil Hobbs
<pcdhSpamMeSensel...@electrooptical.net> wrote:
Quote:
On 01/12/2012 03:07 PM, Ron Hubbard wrote:
On Jan 12, 11:32 am, Michael Black<et...@ncf.ca> wrote:
On Thu, 12 Jan 2012, Ron Hubbard wrote:
On Jan 12, 4:25 am, "Michael A. Terrell"<mike.terr...@earthlink.net
wrote:
Ron Hubbard wrote:
I use the Exar XR2206 function generator in a lot of my projects but
now I see-- at least according to Mouser-- that the IC has become
obsolete? Since when? Why? How can such a useful chip become
discontinued? This not right!
What's not right about dropping obsolete parts?
Well, it'd be kind of like killing off the 555/7555. Think about all
those thousands?-- millions?--- of circuits that use the 555 IC. While
not so ubiquitous, the 2206 is an incredibly useful little IC. I don't
know of any other chip where you get a sine wave past 1 MHz with so
few parts let alone triangle waves. I know there other function
generator chips, but if you need to pack it into a small space--- say,
you were making something really funky like a sonic screwdriver--- the
2206 and its associated parts can easily be put on a very narrow piece
of perfboard; ya can't do that with the 8038 or the other similar
chips.
I would never consider using a 2206 at 1Mhz. It really is stretching the
device, while some other device more suitable for "rf" makes it simple
again.
No, we're saying the whole concept of an analog function generator on an
IC is in the past, not that one device is obsolete and others aren't.
I have no idea what you mean by a "sonic screwdriver", but if you don't
need frequency range, there are lots of other solutions.
Not a Doctor Who fan I take it... A sonic screwdriver in fiction is a
multi-purpose pocket-sized tool that does just about everything but
make coffee. Most people say it can't be done in the real world but
like so many things, most people are wrong.
While it's not much more than a hi-tech toy. my circuit can produce a
whopping 143 dB of 13 kHz ultrasound that *will* turn screws (some of
them anyway), turn keys in locks, spin dinner plates, drive your
neighbor mad, and do other silly but cool tricks. while not exactly
the tool of choice on many occasions, a lot of people
have expressed interest in making one and the XR2206 is a very
critical part to frquency modulate the main ultrasonic beam fro 1 Hz
to 100 Hz.
Doctor Who, I presume. A couple of questions:
143 dB compared to what? 143 dB SPL A-weighted? 143 dBm?
On Jan 12, 11:32 am, Michael Black<et...@ncf.ca> wrote:
On Thu, 12 Jan 2012, Ron Hubbard wrote:
On Jan 12, 4:25 am, "Michael A. Terrell"<mike.terr...@earthlink.net
wrote:
Ron Hubbard wrote:
I use the Exar XR2206 function generator in a lot of my projects but
now I see-- at least according to Mouser-- that the IC has become
obsolete? Since when? Why? How can such a useful chip become
discontinued? This not right!
What's not right about dropping obsolete parts?
Well, it'd be kind of like killing off the 555/7555. Think about all
those thousands?-- millions?--- of circuits that use the 555 IC. While
not so ubiquitous, the 2206 is an incredibly useful little IC. I don't
know of any other chip where you get a sine wave past 1 MHz with so
few parts let alone triangle waves. I know there other function
generator chips, but if you need to pack it into a small space--- say,
you were making something really funky like a sonic screwdriver--- the
2206 and its associated parts can easily be put on a very narrow piece
of perfboard; ya can't do that with the 8038 or the other similar
chips.
I would never consider using a 2206 at 1Mhz. It really is stretching the
device, while some other device more suitable for "rf" makes it simple
again.
No, we're saying the whole concept of an analog function generator on an
IC is in the past, not that one device is obsolete and others aren't.
I have no idea what you mean by a "sonic screwdriver", but if you don't
need frequency range, there are lots of other solutions.
Not a Doctor Who fan I take it... A sonic screwdriver in fiction is a
multi-purpose pocket-sized tool that does just about everything but
make coffee. Most people say it can't be done in the real world but
like so many things, most people are wrong.
While it's not much more than a hi-tech toy. my circuit can produce a
whopping 143 dB of 13 kHz ultrasound that *will* turn screws (some of
them anyway), turn keys in locks, spin dinner plates, drive your
neighbor mad, and do other silly but cool tricks. while not exactly
the tool of choice on many occasions, a lot of people
have expressed interest in making one and the XR2206 is a very
critical part to frquency modulate the main ultrasonic beam fro 1 Hz
to 100 Hz.
Doctor Who, I presume. A couple of questions:
143 dB compared to what? 143 dB SPL A-weighted? 143 dBm?
143 dB at 4" to 6" which is not bad considering it comes from a
handheld battery (2 sub-C cells) powered device that drives a piezo-
transducer less than 1" in diameter. But like I said, just a hi-tech
toy to amaze friends and sometimes annoy neighbors heh heh. ;-)
Ron
_________
"Logic is the science of being wrong with certainty."
-- The Doctor (quoting Ketterling's Law) --
Ron Hubbard
Guest
Guest
Tue Jan 17, 2012 1:30 am
On Jan 12, 6:31 pm, George Herold <gher...@teachspin.com> wrote:
Quote:
On Jan 12, 3:07 pm, Ron Hubbard <or...@dslnorthwest.net> wrote:
On Jan 12, 11:32 am, Michael Black <et...@ncf.ca> wrote:
On Thu, 12 Jan 2012, Ron Hubbard wrote:
On Jan 12, 4:25 am, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terr...@earthlink.net
wrote:
Ron Hubbard wrote:
I use the Exar XR2206 function generator in a lot of my projects but
now I see-- at least according to Mouser-- that the IC has become
obsolete? Since when? Why? How can such a useful chip become
discontinued? This not right!
What's not right about dropping obsolete parts?
Well, it'd be kind of like killing off the 555/7555. Think about all
those thousands?-- millions?--- of circuits that use the 555 IC. While
not so ubiquitous, the 2206 is an incredibly useful little IC. I don't
know of any other chip where you get a sine wave past 1 MHz with so
few parts let alone triangle waves. I know there other function
generator chips, but if you need to pack it into a small space--- say,
you were making something really funky like a sonic screwdriver--- the
2206 and its associated parts can easily be put on a very narrow piece
of perfboard; ya can't do that with the 8038 or the other similar
chips.
I would never consider using a 2206 at 1Mhz. It really is stretching the
device, while some other device more suitable for "rf" makes it simple
again.
No, we're saying the whole concept of an analog function generator on an
IC is in the past, not that one device is obsolete and others aren't.
I have no idea what you mean by a "sonic screwdriver", but if you don't
need frequency range, there are lots of other solutions.
Not a Doctor Who fan I take it... A sonic screwdriver in fiction is a
multi-purpose pocket-sized tool that does just about everything but
make coffee. Most people say it can't be done in the real world but
like so many things, most people are wrong.
While it's not much more than a hi-tech toy. my circuit can produce a
whopping 143 dB of 13 kHz ultrasound that *will* turn screws (some of
them anyway), turn keys in locks, spin dinner plates, drive your
neighbor mad, and do other silly but cool tricks. while not exactly
the tool of choice on many occasions, a lot of people
have expressed interest in making one and the XR2206 is a very
critical part to frquency modulate the main ultrasonic beam fro 1 Hz
to 100 Hz.
http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?p=3702452&posted=1#post37...
If you only need
one type of waveform, there are other solutions, especially if it's not a
sinewave you need
Ahh, but that's why the 2206 is such a beautiful chip: it does produce
nice sine waves with a minimum of support parts and the harmonic
distortion can be reduced if anyone wants to take the trouble of
putting in a small pot instead of a fixed resistor and checking the
output on a 'scope but why bother.
Ron
.
________
"Care for a jelly baby?"
-- the 4th Doctor --- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Ron have you checked out the VCO on the CD4046? (The price is right!)
If you coddled it I think you can get a triangle wave output.
George H.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
On Jan 12, 11:32 am, Michael Black <et...@ncf.ca> wrote:
On Thu, 12 Jan 2012, Ron Hubbard wrote:
On Jan 12, 4:25 am, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terr...@earthlink.net
wrote:
Ron Hubbard wrote:
I use the Exar XR2206 function generator in a lot of my projects but
now I see-- at least according to Mouser-- that the IC has become
obsolete? Since when? Why? How can such a useful chip become
discontinued? This not right!
What's not right about dropping obsolete parts?
Well, it'd be kind of like killing off the 555/7555. Think about all
those thousands?-- millions?--- of circuits that use the 555 IC. While
not so ubiquitous, the 2206 is an incredibly useful little IC. I don't
know of any other chip where you get a sine wave past 1 MHz with so
few parts let alone triangle waves. I know there other function
generator chips, but if you need to pack it into a small space--- say,
you were making something really funky like a sonic screwdriver--- the
2206 and its associated parts can easily be put on a very narrow piece
of perfboard; ya can't do that with the 8038 or the other similar
chips.
I would never consider using a 2206 at 1Mhz. It really is stretching the
device, while some other device more suitable for "rf" makes it simple
again.
No, we're saying the whole concept of an analog function generator on an
IC is in the past, not that one device is obsolete and others aren't.
I have no idea what you mean by a "sonic screwdriver", but if you don't
need frequency range, there are lots of other solutions.
Not a Doctor Who fan I take it... A sonic screwdriver in fiction is a
multi-purpose pocket-sized tool that does just about everything but
make coffee. Most people say it can't be done in the real world but
like so many things, most people are wrong.
While it's not much more than a hi-tech toy. my circuit can produce a
whopping 143 dB of 13 kHz ultrasound that *will* turn screws (some of
them anyway), turn keys in locks, spin dinner plates, drive your
neighbor mad, and do other silly but cool tricks. while not exactly
the tool of choice on many occasions, a lot of people
have expressed interest in making one and the XR2206 is a very
critical part to frquency modulate the main ultrasonic beam fro 1 Hz
to 100 Hz.
http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?p=3702452&posted=1#post37...
If you only need
one type of waveform, there are other solutions, especially if it's not a
sinewave you need
Ahh, but that's why the 2206 is such a beautiful chip: it does produce
nice sine waves with a minimum of support parts and the harmonic
distortion can be reduced if anyone wants to take the trouble of
putting in a small pot instead of a fixed resistor and checking the
output on a 'scope but why bother.
Ron
.
________
"Care for a jelly baby?"
-- the 4th Doctor --- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Ron have you checked out the VCO on the CD4046? (The price is right!)
If you coddled it I think you can get a triangle wave output.
George H.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
I wish I could get a sine wave from the 4046 but it has the
advantage-- at least for me anyway-- is that it's VCO can be easily
made to have a variable delay when frequency modulated. Makes a nice
siren if someone needed it or a sound effect generator.
Ron
Michael Black
Guest
Guest
Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:08 am
On Mon, 16 Jan 2012, Ron Hubbard wrote:
Quote:
I wish I could get a sine wave from the 4046 but it has the
advantage-- at least for me anyway-- is that it's VCO can be easily
made to have a variable delay when frequency modulated. Makes a nice
siren if someone needed it or a sound effect generator.
So run the 4046 at a higher frequency, and feed it into a ring counter
advantage-- at least for me anyway-- is that it's VCO can be easily
made to have a variable delay when frequency modulated. Makes a nice
siren if someone needed it or a sound effect generator.
So run the 4046 at a higher frequency, and feed it into a ring counter
that has summing resistors on the output, giving you a sinewave.
Don Lancaster wrote about it in the hobby magazines almost about the time
the 8038 came out, and I think before the 2206 came out. The same area is
ocered in his CMOS Cookbook (and perhaps in the TTL Cookbook, I can't
remember) and in a more limited form in his TV Typewriter Cookbook.
Michael
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