Huh? Since When--?

George Herold wrote:

On Jan 19, 3:47 pm, Phil Hobbs
pcdhSpamMeSensel...@electrooptical.net> wrote:
Chiron wrote:

On Thu, 19 Jan 2012 09:01:40 -0500, Phil Hobbs wrote:

Ron Hubbard wrote:

On Jan 13, 9:06 am, Phil Hobbs
pcdhSpamMeSensel...@electrooptical.net> wrote:
On 01/12/2012 03:07 PM, Ron Hubbard wrote:

On Jan 12, 11:32 am, Michael Black<et...@ncf.ca>  wrote:
On Thu, 12 Jan 2012, Ron Hubbard wrote:
On Jan 12, 4:25 am, "Michael A.
Terrell"<mike.terr...@earthlink.net> wrote:
Ron Hubbard wrote:

I use the Exar XR2206 function generator in a lot of my
projects but now I see-- at least according to Mouser-- that
the IC has become obsolete? Since when? Why? How can such a
useful chip become discontinued? This not right!

    What's not right about dropping obsolete parts?

Well, it'd be kind of like killing off the 555/7555. Think about
all those thousands?-- millions?--- of circuits that use the 555
IC. While not so ubiquitous, the 2206 is an incredibly useful
little IC. I don't know of any other chip where you get a sine
wave past 1 MHz with so few parts let alone triangle waves.. I
know there other function generator chips, but if you need to
pack it into a small space--- say, you were making something
really funky like a sonic screwdriver--- the 2206 and its
associated parts can easily be put on a very narrow piece of
perfboard; ya can't do that with the 8038 or the other similar
chips.

I would never consider using a 2206 at 1Mhz.  It really is
stretching the device, while some other device more suitable for
"rf" makes it simple again.

No, we're saying the whole concept of an analog function generator
on an IC is in the past, not that one device is obsolete and
others aren't.

I have no idea what you mean by a "sonic screwdriver", but if you
don't need frequency range, there are lots of other solutions.

Not a Doctor Who fan I take it...  A sonic screwdriver in fiction
is a multi-purpose pocket-sized tool that does just about
everything but make coffee. Most people say it can't be done in the
real world but like so many things, most people are wrong.

While it's not much more than a hi-tech toy. my circuit can produce
a whopping 143 dB of 13 kHz ultrasound that *will* turn screws
(some of them anyway), turn keys in locks, spin dinner plates,
drive your neighbor mad, and do other silly but cool tricks. while
not exactly the tool of choice on many occasions, a lot of people
have expressed interest in making one and the XR2206 is a very
critical part to frquency modulate the main ultrasonic beam fro 1
Hz to 100 Hz.

Doctor Who, I presume.  A couple of questions:

143 dB compared to what? 143 dB SPL A-weighted?  143 dBm? ;)

143 dB at 4" to 6" which is not bad considering it comes from a
handheld battery (2 sub-C cells) powered device that drives a piezo-
transducer less than 1" in diameter. But like I said, just a hi-tech
toy to amaze friends and sometimes annoy neighbors heh heh.  ;-)

At what range?  A hearing aid can do that inside the ear--not so
whopping at all, though it would certainly hurt. Annoying people, that
I believe.  Tightening screws?  Not so much.

Annoying, people, that I believe.  Tightening screws? You're making that
up.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

He said "turning" screws, not tightening them.  I might possibly believe
that the vibrations might loosen screws...

That's why I specified tightening.  He claimed that it was a 'sonic
screwdriver', whereas it's just an oscillator driving a resonant piezo.
Probably you want a screwdriver to turn both ways....

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

Hmm not to nit pick... (OK I am nit picking :^) But I as far as I can
remember Dr. Who never used his sonic screwdriver for tightening
screws.

George H.

His maintenance guy had one too. ;)

(I haven't watched a Dr. Who episode since I was a kid.  I never watch
TV unless I'm stuck in some hotel without a good book, and even then I
just find some documentary or in a pinch the weather report.  TV is both
boring and depressing.)

Cheers

Phil Hobbs- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Who wants a foot-long screwdriver?

The original sonic screwdriver was made
with vacuum tubes and had space left over.
Then again, it was much bigger on the inside
than on the outside.

143 dB at 4" to 6" which is not bad considering it comes from a
handheld battery (2 sub-C cells) powered device that drives a piezo-
transducer less than 1" in diameter. But like I said, just a hi-tech
toy to amaze friends and sometimes annoy neighbors heh heh.

On Thu, 26 Jan 2012 12:49:15 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
mike.terrell_at_earthlink.net> wrote:


Ron Hubbard wrote:

Who wants a foot-long screwdriver?


Anyone who needs the proper hand tools. Some of mine are 36", and I
have a custom flexible stainless steel 1/8" blade that is 42 inches to
reach into equipment to adjust hidden controls. I also have a lot of
1/4" hex extensions and can make any length I need. Have you ever used
a 24 foot long drill bit to run wire? I have.

I've got a 6 footer, absolutely necessary to get thru fire-breaks. But
I've never seen a 24 footer

...Jim Thompson

On Thu, 26 Jan 2012 11:10:14 -0700, Jim Thompson
To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon_at_On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote:

On Thu, 26 Jan 2012 12:49:15 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
mike.terrell_at_earthlink.net> wrote:


Ron Hubbard wrote:

Who wants a foot-long screwdriver?


Anyone who needs the proper hand tools. Some of mine are 36", and I
have a custom flexible stainless steel 1/8" blade that is 42 inches to
reach into equipment to adjust hidden controls. I also have a lot of
1/4" hex extensions and can make any length I need. Have you ever used
a 24 foot long drill bit to run wire? I have.

I've got a 6 footer, absolutely necessary to get thru fire-breaks. But
I've never seen a 24 footer ;-)

...Jim Thompson

But that reminds me, I've used 20' sections of PVC pipe to thread wire
(and coax and CAT-5) thru my old flat-roofed house... pre-thread the
pipe sections with the wire, then shove the PVC from a roof side vent
under the insulation to a ceiling cut-out... great fun

Jim Thompson wrote:

On Thu, 26 Jan 2012 11:10:14 -0700, Jim Thompson
To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon_at_On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote:

On Thu, 26 Jan 2012 12:49:15 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
mike.terrell_at_earthlink.net> wrote:


Ron Hubbard wrote:

Who wants a foot-long screwdriver?


Anyone who needs the proper hand tools. Some of mine are 36", and I
have a custom flexible stainless steel 1/8" blade that is 42 inches to
reach into equipment to adjust hidden controls. I also have a lot of
1/4" hex extensions and can make any length I need. Have you ever used
a 24 foot long drill bit to run wire? I have.

I've got a 6 footer, absolutely necessary to get thru fire-breaks. But
I've never seen a 24 footer ;-)

...Jim Thompson

But that reminds me, I've used 20' sections of PVC pipe to thread wire
(and coax and CAT-5) thru my old flat-roofed house... pre-thread the
pipe sections with the wire, then shove the PVC from a roof side vent
under the insulation to a ceiling cut-out... great fun :-(


Not as much as running wire in a department store, over a drop tile
celing that's 30 feet off the floor. We had to use rolling scaffolding,
and remove some tiles, then the cable was tied to a full roll of Scotch
66 tape, and thrown from hole to hole.

Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Not as much as running wire in a department store, over a drop tile
celing that's 30 feet off the floor. We had to use rolling scaffolding,
and remove some tiles, then the cable was tied to a full roll of Scotch
66 tape, and thrown from hole to hole.

I've done that too

Jim Thompson wrote:

Michael A. Terrell wrote:

...30 feet off the floor.  We had to use rolling scaffolding,

  While some idiot decides the scaffolding is in their way,
and gives it a shove while you're up in the grid? :(

On Jan 19, 3:47 pm, Phil Hobbs





pcdhSpamMeSensel...@electrooptical.net> wrote:
Chiron wrote:

On Thu, 19 Jan 2012 09:01:40 -0500, Phil Hobbs wrote:

Ron Hubbard wrote:

On Jan 13, 9:06 am, Phil Hobbs
pcdhSpamMeSensel...@electrooptical.net> wrote:
On 01/12/2012 03:07 PM, Ron Hubbard wrote:

On Jan 12, 11:32 am, Michael Black<et...@ncf.ca>  wrote:
On Thu, 12 Jan 2012, Ron Hubbard wrote:
On Jan 12, 4:25 am, "Michael A.
Terrell"<mike.terr...@earthlink.net> wrote:
Ron Hubbard wrote:

I use the Exar XR2206 function generator in a lot of my
projects but now I see-- at least according to Mouser-- that
the IC has become obsolete? Since when? Why? How can such a
useful chip become discontinued? This not right!

    What's not right about dropping obsolete parts?

Well, it'd be kind of like killing off the 555/7555. Think about
all those thousands?-- millions?--- of circuits that use the 555
IC. While not so ubiquitous, the 2206 is an incredibly useful
little IC. I don't know of any other chip where you get a sine
wave past 1 MHz with so few parts let alone triangle waves. I
know there other function generator chips, but if you need to
pack it into a small space--- say, you were making something
really funky like a sonic screwdriver--- the 2206 and its
associated parts can easily be put on a very narrow piece of
perfboard; ya can't do that with the 8038 or the other similar
chips.

I would never consider using a 2206 at 1Mhz.  It really is
stretching the device, while some other device more suitable for
"rf" makes it simple again.

No, we're saying the whole concept of an analog function generator
on an IC is in the past, not that one device is obsolete and
others aren't.

I have no idea what you mean by a "sonic screwdriver", but if you
don't need frequency range, there are lots of other solutions..

Not a Doctor Who fan I take it...  A sonic screwdriver in fiction
is a multi-purpose pocket-sized tool that does just about
everything but make coffee. Most people say it can't be done in the
real world but like so many things, most people are wrong.

While it's not much more than a hi-tech toy. my circuit can produce
a whopping 143 dB of 13 kHz ultrasound that *will* turn screws
(some of them anyway), turn keys in locks, spin dinner plates,
drive your neighbor mad, and do other silly but cool tricks. while
not exactly the tool of choice on many occasions, a lot of people
have expressed interest in making one and the XR2206 is a very
critical part to frquency modulate the main ultrasonic beam fro 1
Hz to 100 Hz.

Doctor Who, I presume.  A couple of questions:

143 dB compared to what? 143 dB SPL A-weighted?  143 dBm? ;)

143 dB at 4" to 6" which is not bad considering it comes from a
handheld battery (2 sub-C cells) powered device that drives a piezo-
transducer less than 1" in diameter. But like I said, just a hi-tech
toy to amaze friends and sometimes annoy neighbors heh heh.  ;-)

At what range?  A hearing aid can do that inside the ear--not so
whopping at all, though it would certainly hurt. Annoying people, that
I believe.  Tightening screws?  Not so much.

Annoying, people, that I believe.  Tightening screws? You're making that
up.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

He said "turning" screws, not tightening them.  I might possibly believe
that the vibrations might loosen screws...

That's why I specified tightening.  He claimed that it was a 'sonic
screwdriver', whereas it's just an oscillator driving a resonant piezo.
Probably you want a screwdriver to turn both ways....

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics

160 North State Road #203
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510
845-480-2058

hobbs at electrooptical dot nethttp://electrooptical.net-Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Hmm not to nit pick... (OK I am nit picking :^) But I as far as I can
remember Dr. Who never used his sonic screwdriver for tightening
screws.

George H.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yeah, the screwdriver can't produce true torque-- it works mostly on a
resonance effect. Or rather, it would in the real world; in the Doctor
Who world it does medical scans, welds wire, cut out locks, and
everything else but make a proper cuppa tea.

Mine works at 13 kHz, a compromise frequency that I can hear but most
people have a problem hearing (I don't care *what* they say about the
upper limit for human hearing being 20 kHz, that's BS) but when
frequency modulated, they can hear the lowr secondary frequency.

On Jan 28, 12:14 pm, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terr...@earthlink.net
wrote:
Jim Thompson wrote:

Michael A. Terrell wrote:

...30 feet off the floor. We had to use rolling scaffolding,

While some idiot decides the scaffolding is in their way,
and gives it a shove while you're up in the grid? :(


We're electronics guys. We know how to hook
up a 7000 volt tickler for people like that...

On Mon, 30 Jan 2012 16:05:42 -0800 (PST), Ron Hubbard
orion_at_dslnorthwest.net> wrote:

Yeah, the screwdriver can't produce true torque-- it works mostly on a
resonance effect. Or rather, it would in the real world; in the Doctor
Who world it does medical scans, welds wire, cut out locks, and
everything else but make a proper cuppa tea.

Mine works at 13 kHz, a compromise frequency that I can hear but most
people have a problem hearing (I don't care *what* they say about the
upper limit for human hearing being 20 kHz, that's BS) but when
frequency modulated, they can hear the lowr secondary frequency.

That 20 kHz number is correct, but typically only for young
ears. Age in general, and especially an accumulation of
exposures to loud sound, can reduce it substantially.

About 25 years ago I was working with a hearing researcher,
who was trying to get his experimental setup working to
deliver 12 kHz tone bursts to an anaesthetized guinea pig in
a sound booth. I was standing at the equipment rack outside
the booth (door open) and could easily hear the tones. He
was pretty upset to discover that he couldn't hear the sound
even when he held the transducer near his ear.

Like I said, years ago. Dunno if I could still hear that!

Bob Masta wrote:

On Mon, 30 Jan 2012 16:05:42 -0800 (PST), Ron Hubbard
orion_at_dslnorthwest.net> wrote:

Yeah, the screwdriver can't produce true torque-- it works mostly on a
resonance effect. Or rather, it would in the real world; in the Doctor
Who world it does medical scans, welds wire, cut out locks, and
everything else but make a proper cuppa tea.

Mine works at 13 kHz, a compromise frequency that I can hear but most
people have a problem hearing (I don't care *what* they say about the
upper limit for human hearing being 20 kHz, that's BS) but when
frequency modulated, they can hear the lowr secondary frequency.

That 20 kHz number is correct, but typically only for young
ears. Age in general, and especially an accumulation of
exposures to loud sound, can reduce it substantially.

About 25 years ago I was working with a hearing researcher,
who was trying to get his experimental setup working to
deliver 12 kHz tone bursts to an anaesthetized guinea pig in
a sound booth. I was standing at the equipment rack outside
the booth (door open) and could easily hear the tones. He
was pretty upset to discover that he couldn't hear the sound
even when he held the transducer near his ear.

Like I said, years ago. Dunno if I could still hear that!


I used to have no problem hearing the 15,734.34 Hz horizontal sweep
in cheap TVs and monitors.

On Tue, 31 Jan 2012 16:06:54 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"





mike.terr...@earthlink.net> wrote:

Bob Masta wrote:

On Mon, 30 Jan 2012 16:05:42 -0800 (PST), Ron Hubbard
or...@dslnorthwest.net> wrote:

Yeah, the screwdriver can't produce true torque-- it works mostly on a
resonance effect. Or rather, it would in the real world; in the Doctor
Who world it does medical scans, welds wire, cut out locks, and
everything else but make a proper cuppa tea.

Mine works at 13 kHz, a compromise frequency that I can hear but most
people have a problem hearing (I don't care *what* they say about the
upper limit for human hearing being 20 kHz, that's BS) but when
frequency modulated, they can hear the lowr secondary frequency.

That 20 kHz number is correct, but typically only for young
ears.  Age in general, and especially an accumulation of
exposures to loud sound, can reduce it substantially.

About 25 years ago I was working with a hearing researcher,
who was trying to get his experimental setup working to
deliver 12 kHz tone bursts to an anaesthetized guinea pig in
a sound booth.  I was standing at the equipment rack outside
the booth (door open) and could easily hear the tones.  He
was pretty upset to discover that he couldn't hear the sound
even when he held the transducer near his ear.

Like I said, years ago.  Dunno if I could still hear that!

  I used to have no problem hearing the 15,734.34 Hz horizontal sweep
in cheap TVs and monitors. :(

I could hear them from the sidewalk in front of the house.

I worked with a guy (when I was in college) who said he could hear 30kHz, a
few years before(tested by the Navy).  Later in the day we were working in the
same lab so without telling him I connected an oscillator to a speaker and
started playing with it around 25kHz.  He could *easily* hear 25kHz and got
really pissed when he found out I was playing with him.  It had been driving
him nuts for an hour.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -