Global warming?

On Thu, 07 Jan 2010 08:15:17 -0500, Hammy <s...@spam.com> wrote:

Hey Slowman for a man of such conviction I see little action.

Your PC runs on electricity which is generated likely using OMG coal.

Everything in your house somehow according to you and other paranoids
contributed to emissions that cause the climate change you are so
terrified of. Even the flatulent you expel regularly contributes to it
as well as breathing.

I think you know what you have to do; be a martyr.

You missed my whole point paranoids are always narrowed minded.

On Thu, 7 Jan 2010 09:52:31 -0800 (PST), Bill Sloman





bill.slo...@ieee.org> wrote:
On Jan 7, 5:53 pm, John Larkin
jjlar...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:
On Thu, 07 Jan 2010 07:12:35 -0500, Bitrex

bit...@de.lete.earthlink.net> wrote:
Michael A. Terrell wrote:
No damn way!

It's 21 degrees in Ocala right now and expected to get colder. They are
forecasting some snow, and this may become one of the longest cold
spells on record with another cold front headed this way.

I made 3 three-point shots while playing basketball today out of the 4 I
attempted. With a three point shot percentage of 75% I am therefore the
greatest basketball player who ever lived.

One should use care in making global conclusions using only local data
points.

Well, the alarmists weren't shy about blaming every storm, beach
erosion, hot spell, change in butterfly population, or the weigh of a
herd of sheep on Global Warming.

That wasn't the serious proponenets of anthropogenic global warming,
but merely idle journalists, looking for a hook on which to hang their
latest weather story. Only the the feather-brained would take them
seriously.

You mean peer-reviewed journals?

Cold kills:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/weather/article6979830.ece

I've seen serious estimates that suggest that in the US and Europe,
cool snaps kill about four times as many people as heat waves.

Plants like warmth and CO2, too.

On Thu, 07 Jan 2010 07:12:35 -0500, Bitrex



bit...@de.lete.earthlink.net> wrote:
Michael A. Terrell wrote:
No damn way!

It's 21 degrees in Ocala right now and expected to get colder. They are
forecasting some snow, and this may become one of the longest cold
spells on record with another cold front headed this way.

I made 3 three-point shots while playing basketball today out of the 4 I
attempted.  With a three point shot percentage of 75% I am therefore the
greatest basketball player who ever lived.

One should use care in making global conclusions using only local data
points.

Well, the alarmists weren't shy about blaming every storm, beach
erosion, hot spell, change in butterfly population, or the weigh of a
herd of sheep on Global Warming.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8445613.stm

John

On Jan 7, 11:28 pm, John Larkin
jjlar...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:
On Thu, 7 Jan 2010 09:52:31 -0800 (PST), Bill Sloman





bill.slo...@ieee.org> wrote:
On Jan 7, 5:53 pm, John Larkin
jjlar...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:
On Thu, 07 Jan 2010 07:12:35 -0500, Bitrex

bit...@de.lete.earthlink.net> wrote:
Michael A. Terrell wrote:
No damn way!

It's 21 degrees in Ocala right now and expected to get colder. They are
forecasting some snow, and this may become one of the longest cold
spells on record with another cold front headed this way.

I made 3 three-point shots while playing basketball today out of the 4 I
attempted. With a three point shot percentage of 75% I am therefore the
greatest basketball player who ever lived.

One should use care in making global conclusions using only local data
points.

Well, the alarmists weren't shy about blaming every storm, beach
erosion, hot spell, change in butterfly population, or the weigh of a
herd of sheep on Global Warming.

That wasn't the serious proponenets of anthropogenic global warming,
but merely idle journalists, looking for a hook on which to hang their
latest weather story. Only the the feather-brained would take them
seriously.

You mean peer-reviewed journals?

No. Journalists write newspaper articles, articles in peer-reviewd
journals are witten by scientists. If you want your opinions about
anthropogenic global warming to be taken seriously, this is one of the
bits of information that you will need to master. There are others.

Cold kills:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/weather/article6979830.ece

I've seen serious estimates that suggest that in the US and Europe,
cool snaps kill about four times as many people as heat waves.

But you can't actually cite any such estimate.

Plants like warmth and CO2, too.

Up to a point. Few plants have to good fortune to be exposed to enough
of every other nutient to allow them to take advantage of higher CO2
levels - the geological record tells us that plants mainly take
advantage of higher CO2 levels by reducing the number of stoma on the
underside of their leaves so that they can collect the same amount of
CO2 while losing less water.

On Thu, 7 Jan 2010 15:25:25 -0800 (PST), Bill Sloman
bill.sloman_at_ieee.org> wrote:


SNIP

.

Cold kills:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/weather/article6979830.ece

I've seen serious estimates that suggest that in the US and Europe,
cool snaps kill about four times as many people as heat waves.

But you can't actually cite any such estimate.

One estimate of winter deaths here:

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2010/01/06/winter-kills-excess-deaths-in-the-winter-months/

/quote

108,500 Deaths in the US in 2008; 36,700 in England and Wales Last
Winter; 5,600 in Canada (2006); 7,000 in Australia (1997-2006
Average); Thousands in Other Developed Countries

/end quote

SNIP

On Jan 7, 11:53 am, John Larkin
jjlar...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:
On Thu, 07 Jan 2010 07:12:35 -0500, Bitrex



bit...@de.lete.earthlink.net> wrote:
Michael A. Terrell wrote:
No damn way!

It's 21 degrees in Ocala right now and expected to get colder. They are
forecasting some snow, and this may become one of the longest cold
spells on record with another cold front headed this way.

I made 3 three-point shots while playing basketball today out of the 4 I
attempted.  With a three point shot percentage of 75% I am therefore the
greatest basketball player who ever lived.

One should use care in making global conclusions using only local data
points.

Well, the alarmists weren't shy about blaming every storm, beach
erosion, hot spell, change in butterfly population, or the weigh of a
herd of sheep on Global Warming.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8445613.stm

John

Not to worry, we're still doomed:
http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/wireStory?id=9495864

mpm wrote:

On Jan 7, 5:58 am, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terr...@earthlink.net
wrote:
No damn way!

It's 21 degrees in Ocala right now and expected to get colder. They are
forecasting some snow, and this may become one of the longest cold
spells on record with another cold front headed this way.

--
Greed is the root of all eBay.

Yikes!!!  -  Not much better here though.
Our high today is only 61 (42 out now).

Just ignore all those other guys.
Afterall, they're not used to tee-shirts, cut-offs and flip-flops in
the middle of a Florida "winter"!

Were you in Florida for the 1989 ice storm.

   The one, right before that huge sale of hail damaged cars? ;-)

  What a mess!!  At least it's 21 and no ice in Ocala.

I heard on the news we have at least another week of this unusual
weather....

   Yeah, and now I have to dig a 45 foot trench for a new water line,
thanks to 'Global Warming'.

--
Greed is the root of all eBay.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

On Jan 7, 2:15 pm, Hammy <s...@spam.com> wrote:
On Thu, 07 Jan 2010 07:12:35 -0500, Bitrex

bit...@de.lete.earthlink.net> wrote:
Michael A. Terrell wrote:
No damn way!

It's 21 degrees in Ocala right now and expected to get colder. They are
forecasting some snow, and this may become one of the longest cold
spells on record with another cold front headed this way.

I made 3 three-point shots while playing basketball today out of the 4 I
attempted.  With a three point shot percentage of 75% I am therefore the
greatest basketball player who ever lived.

One should use care in making global conclusions using only local data
points.

One should also be careful of making predictions on climate based on
data such as tree rings.

The life span of a tree is hardly equivalent to an eye blink when
compared to the time the earth has existed. Yet they are using this to
determine so called climate patterns. As far as geological data its
hardly precise usually its plus or minus a couple thousand years.

Since the interesting perturbation to the climate is the 100pmm rise
in atmospheric CO2 level over the past century (from around 280ppm to
around 385ppm), tree ring data does have about the right time scale to
allow us to compare curent climate changes to the climate changes that
were taking place immediately before the Industrial Revolution.

Given the amount of time they have started taken accurate measurements
sub 100 years I fail to see how any credible scientist can come to any
conclusion on climate. How do they know what is normal?

That is why they have been looking at the tree ring data, data from
Artic lake sediments, and - most informative so far - the ice core
data from the Greenland and Antarctic (Vostok) ice caps.

Some events that could skew there data just off the top of my head the
eruption of Mt St.Helens, EL Nina, EL Nino etc…

Mere short term perturbations.

The climate will change whether we are here or not as it always has.

To some extent, but injecting 37.5% more of a greenhouse gas into the
atmosphere adds a new and apparently significant perturbation.

All this paranoid shit does is make some people rich by taking
advantage of all the gullible idiots out there.

It isn't actually paranoid shit

though Exxon-Mobil and like-minded
organisations who make money out of digging up fossil carbon and
selling it as fuel do see a financial advantage in persuading gullible
idiots like you that the scientific case is less than robust.

http://www.ucsusa.org/assets/documents/global_warming/exxon_report.pdf

For the record its regularly minus 30C here over night so I hope it
does get warmer or at least another el nino  would be nice.

Wait until summer.

Until then, it might be worth your while to learn a little bit more
about the scientific case for anthropogenic global warming.

The American Institute of Physics has a useful web-site which lays out
the history of the development of the idea.

http://www.aip.org/history/climate/

You'd be better off spending you spare time reading that than
adverising that you haven't got a clue about the subject.

On Jan 7, 2:55 pm, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terr...@earthlink.net
wrote:





mpm wrote:

On Jan 7, 5:58 am, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terr...@earthlink.net
wrote:
No damn way!

It's 21 degrees in Ocala right now and expected to get colder. They are
forecasting some snow, and this may become one of the longest cold
spells on record with another cold front headed this way.

--
Greed is the root of all eBay.

Yikes!!!  -  Not much better here though.
Our high today is only 61 (42 out now).

Just ignore all those other guys.
Afterall, they're not used to tee-shirts, cut-offs and flip-flops in
the middle of a Florida "winter"!

Were you in Florida for the 1989 ice storm.

   The one, right before that huge sale of hail damaged cars? ;-)

  What a mess!!  At least it's 21 and no ice in Ocala.

I heard on the news we have at least another week of this unusual
weather....

   Yeah, and now I have to dig a 45 foot trench for a new water line,
thanks to 'Global Warming'.

--
Greed is the root of all eBay.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

A frined of mine is a research scientist on the ESA's SMOS mission.
Link:  http://www.esa.int/esaEO/SEMDGULX82G_index_0.html

It's a pretty cool instrument; an L-band interferrometer with 69
polarizations (66 discrete antennas).  2.4 GHz.
It launched in November and can measure global soil moisture and sea
surface temps & salinity. - The first instrument to do so on a global
scale.

Last I heard, there was some glitch in the A-Arm local oscillator, so
I haven't seen any recent data.
This is a very complex instrument - I hope they get it working.
Then we might confirm for sure (or not) that GW/AGW is something to
worry about.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

On Jan 8, 12:55 am, Raveninghorde <raveninghorde_at_invalid> wrote:
On Thu, 7 Jan 2010 15:25:25 -0800 (PST), Bill Sloman

bill.slo...@ieee.org> wrote:

SNIP

.



Cold kills:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/weather/article6979830.ece

I've seen serious estimates that suggest that in the US and Europe,
cool snaps kill about four times as many people as heat waves.

But you can't actually cite any such estimate.

One estimate of winter deaths here:

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2010/01/06/winter-kills-excess-deaths-in-t...

/quote

108,500 Deaths in the US in 2008; 36,700 in England and Wales Last
Winter; 5,600 in Canada (2006); 7,000 in Australia (1997-2006
Average); Thousands in Other Developed Countries

/end quote

As you'd expect from a denialist web-site, they don't mention that hot
summers also generate excess deaths, and haven't cited any numbers
from tropical countries where excess deaths peak in summer, rather
than winter - human beings did evolve in tropical Africa, and rarely
run into excessive heat in temperate countries, though it does happen
from time to time

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_European_heat_wave

There are a LOT of intellignet thinking peiople who disagree with that
view. You may have made up your mind, but the jury really is still
out when it comes to the doom and destruction bit.

though Exxon-Mobil and like-minded
organisations who make money out of digging up fossil carbon and
selling it as fuel do see a financial advantage in persuading gullible
idiots like you that the scientific case is less than robust.

http://www.ucsusa.org/assets/documents/global_warming/exxon_report.pdf

On Thu, 7 Jan 2010 07:11:31 -0800 (PST), Bill Sloman

bill.slo...@ieee.org> wrote:
On Jan 7, 2:15 pm, Hammy <s...@spam.com> wrote:
On Thu, 07 Jan 2010 07:12:35 -0500, Bitrex

bit...@de.lete.earthlink.net> wrote:
Michael A. Terrell wrote:
No damn way!

It's 21 degrees in Ocala right now and expected to get colder. They are
forecasting some snow, and this may become one of the longest cold
spells on record with another cold front headed this way.

I made 3 three-point shots while playing basketball today out of the 4 I
attempted.  With a three point shot percentage of 75% I am therefore the
greatest basketball player who ever lived.

One should use care in making global conclusions using only local data
points.

One should also be careful of making predictions on climate based on
data such as tree rings.

The life span of a tree is hardly equivalent to an eye blink when
compared to the time the earth has existed. Yet they are using this to
determine so called climate patterns. As far as geological data its
hardly precise usually its plus or minus a couple thousand years.

Since the interesting perturbation to the climate is the 100pmm rise
in atmospheric CO2 level over the past century (from around 280ppm to
around 385ppm), tree ring data does have about the right time scale to
allow us to compare curent climate changes to the climate changes that
were taking place immediately before the Industrial Revolution.

which is still a drop in the timescale bucket compared to the ice-age
period.

How can so-called credible scientists put forward their AGW arguments
with 100-odd years of data in a cycle of - what - 25,000 years?
That's like looking at about 1.44 degrees of a signal cycle and saying
what the rest of the cycle is.

Given the amount of time they have started taken accurate measurements
sub 100 years I fail to see how any credible scientist can come to any
conclusion on climate. How do they know what is normal?

That is why they have been looking at the tree ring data, data from
Artic lake sediments, and - most informative so far - the ice core
data from the Greenland and Antarctic (Vostok) ice caps.

and below the ice-cap they have found remnants of temperate climate
forests.  That terra firma under the ice has previously seen the light
of day for an extended period.

Some events that could skew there data just off the top of my head the
eruption of Mt St.Helens, EL Nina, EL Nino etc…

Mere short term perturbations.

and you think/believe that ramping over say 100 years ISN'T short
term?

The climate will change whether we are here or not as it always has.

To some extent, but injecting 37.5% more of a greenhouse gas into the
atmosphere adds a new and apparently significant perturbation.

We - and certainly you - don't know what it was like at the same point
of the previous ice-age cycle.  Again, short-term samples don't tell
the story, any more than two or three brush strokes let you describe
what the finished canvas will look like.

All this paranoid shit does is make some people rich by taking
advantage of all the gullible idiots out there.

It isn't actually paranoid shit

There are a LOT of intellignet thinking people who disagree with that
view.  You may have made up your mind, but the jury really is still
out when it comes to the doom and destruction bit.

though Exxon-Mobil and like-minded
organisations who make money out of digging up fossil carbon and
selling it as fuel do see a financial advantage in persuading gullible
idiots like you that the scientific case is less than robust.

http://www.ucsusa.org/assets/documents/global_warming/exxon_report.pdf

For the record its regularly minus 30C here over night so I hope it
does get warmer or at least another el nino  would be nice.

Wait until summer.

Until then, it might be worth your while to learn a little bit more
about the scientific case for anthropogenic global warming.

The American Institute of Physics has a useful web-site which lays out
the history of the development of the idea.

http://www.aip.org/history/climate/

You'd be better off spending you spare time reading that than
adverising that you haven't got a clue about the subject.

You need to go back to Statistics 101 and look at what constitutes
sufficient data to validate forecasts.

On Thu, 7 Jan 2010 15:25:25 -0800 (PST), Bill Sloman

bill.slo...@ieee.org> wrote:

SNIP

.



Cold kills:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/weather/article6979830.ece

I've seen serious estimates that suggest that in the US and Europe,
cool snaps kill about four times as many people as heat waves.

But you can't actually cite any such estimate.

One estimate of winter deaths here:

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2010/01/06/winter-kills-excess-deaths-in-t...

/quote

108,500 Deaths in the US in 2008; 36,700 in England and Wales Last
Winter; 5,600 in Canada (2006); 7,000 in Australia (1997-2006
Average); Thousands in Other Developed Countries

/end quote

On Thu, 7 Jan 2010 15:25:25 -0800 (PST), Bill Sloman





bill.slo...@ieee.org> wrote:
On Jan 7, 11:28 pm, John Larkin
jjlar...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:
On Thu, 7 Jan 2010 09:52:31 -0800 (PST), Bill Sloman

bill.slo...@ieee.org> wrote:
On Jan 7, 5:53 pm, John Larkin
jjlar...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:
On Thu, 07 Jan 2010 07:12:35 -0500, Bitrex

bit...@de.lete.earthlink.net> wrote:
Michael A. Terrell wrote:
No damn way!

It's 21 degrees in Ocala right now and expected to get colder. They are
forecasting some snow, and this may become one of the longest cold
spells on record with another cold front headed this way.

I made 3 three-point shots while playing basketball today out of the 4 I
attempted. With a three point shot percentage of 75% I am therefore the
greatest basketball player who ever lived.

One should use care in making global conclusions using only local data
points.

Well, the alarmists weren't shy about blaming every storm, beach
erosion, hot spell, change in butterfly population, or the weigh of a
herd of sheep on Global Warming.

That wasn't the serious proponenets of anthropogenic global warming,
but merely idle journalists, looking for a hook on which to hang their
latest weather story. Only the the feather-brained would take them
seriously.

You mean peer-reviewed journals?

No. Journalists write newspaper articles, articles in peer-reviewd
journals are witten by scientists. If you want your opinions about
anthropogenic global warming to be taken seriously, this is one of the
bits of information that you will need to master. There are others.

If you want your opinions about electronic design to be taken
seriously, you should actually do some once in a while. Master that!

AGW is not the topic here.

Cold kills:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/weather/article6979830.ece

I've seen serious estimates that suggest that in the US and Europe,
cool snaps kill about four times as many people as heat waves.

But you can't actually cite any such estimate.

Plants like warmth and CO2, too.

Up to a point. Few plants have to good fortune to be exposed to enough
of every other nutrient to allow them to take advantage of higher CO2
levels - the geological record tells us that plants mainly take
advantage of higher CO2 levels by reducing the number of stoma on the
underside of their leaves so that they can collect the same amount of
CO2 while losing less water.

That's the way multivariate optimization works.

On Thu, 7 Jan 2010 15:25:39 -0800 (PST), dagmargoodb...@yahoo.com
wrote:

On Jan 7, 11:53 am, John Larkin
jjlar...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:
On Thu, 07 Jan 2010 07:12:35 -0500, Bitrex

bit...@de.lete.earthlink.net> wrote:
Michael A. Terrell wrote:
No damn way!

It's 21 degrees in Ocala right now and expected to get colder. They are
forecasting some snow, and this may become one of the longest cold
spells on record with another cold front headed this way.

I made 3 three-point shots while playing basketball today out of the 4 I
attempted.  With a three point shot percentage of 75% I am therefore the
greatest basketball player who ever lived.

One should use care in making global conclusions using only local data
points.

Well, the alarmists weren't shy about blaming every storm, beach
erosion, hot spell, change in butterfly population, or the weigh of a
herd of sheep on Global Warming.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8445613.stm

John

Not to worry, we're still doomed:
 http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/wireStory?id=9495864

Another Ice Age would be "just a blip in the long-term heating trend."

Just keep extending the definition of "weather" and "climate" as suits
your political needs.