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Jim Thompson
Guest

Tue Mar 02, 2010 1:42 am   



On Mon, 01 Mar 2010 19:28:11 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
<mike.terrell_at_earthlink.net> wrote:

Quote:

PeterD wrote:

On Mon, 01 Mar 2010 01:25:26 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
mike.terrell_at_earthlink.net> wrote:


Jon wrote:

...
All I care about is protecting the generator. The coil has to be energized
24/7 to do it, but there's no other way.



R.I.P. Moron.

Unfortunately the only person who will be RIP will be someone other
than the moron who posted this thread.


His IP resolves to: Middleburg, Virginia. Maybe the local
authorities would like to hear about his plans?




IP Information - 4.248.254.21
IP address: 4.248.254.21
Reverse DNS:
dialup-4.248.254.21.Dial1.Washington2.Level3.net.
Reverse DNS authenticity: [Verified]
ASN: 3356
ASN Name: Level3 (Level 3 Communications)
IP range connectivity: 2
Registrar (per ASN): RIPE
Country (per IP registrar): US [United States]
Country Currency: USD [United States Dollars]
Country IP Range: 4.0.0.0 to 4.255.255.255
Country fraud profile: Normal
City (per outside source): Middleburg, Virginia
Country (per outside source): US [United States]
Private (internal) IP? No
IP address registrar: whois.arin.net
Known Proxy? No
Link for WHOIS: 4.248.254.21


http://www.middleburg.org/dept.htm

Michael, Can't you just forward this whole thread to Middleburg, and
let them draw their own conclusions ?Smile

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

Michael A. Terrell
Guest

Tue Mar 02, 2010 6:45 am   



Jim Thompson wrote:
Quote:

On Mon, 01 Mar 2010 19:28:11 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
mike.terrell_at_earthlink.net> wrote:


PeterD wrote:

On Mon, 01 Mar 2010 01:25:26 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
mike.terrell_at_earthlink.net> wrote:


Jon wrote:

...
All I care about is protecting the generator. The coil has to be energized
24/7 to do it, but there's no other way.



R.I.P. Moron.

Unfortunately the only person who will be RIP will be someone other
than the moron who posted this thread.


His IP resolves to: Middleburg, Virginia. Maybe the local
authorities would like to hear about his plans?




IP Information - 4.248.254.21
IP address: 4.248.254.21
Reverse DNS:
dialup-4.248.254.21.Dial1.Washington2.Level3.net.
Reverse DNS authenticity: [Verified]
ASN: 3356
ASN Name: Level3 (Level 3 Communications)
IP range connectivity: 2
Registrar (per ASN): RIPE
Country (per IP registrar): US [United States]
Country Currency: USD [United States Dollars]
Country IP Range: 4.0.0.0 to 4.255.255.255
Country fraud profile: Normal
City (per outside source): Middleburg, Virginia
Country (per outside source): US [United States]
Private (internal) IP? No
IP address registrar: whois.arin.net
Known Proxy? No
Link for WHOIS: 4.248.254.21


http://www.middleburg.org/dept.htm

Michael, Can't you just forward this whole thread to Middleburg, and
let them draw their own conclusions ?Smile


I would prefer that someone in that area make the report so it would
get more attention.


--
Greed is the root of all eBay.

ehsjr
Guest

Tue Mar 02, 2010 6:52 am   



Mark wrote:
Quote:
On Feb 28, 9:45 pm, "Jon" <jon8...@peoplepc.com> wrote:

service

120vac 120vac signal
o o o
| | |
o o------------*
\ main \ |
o o |
| | |
| house | |
| | |
| | |
| barn | (COIL)
--- --- | generator ignition
-/- N.C. -/- N.C.. | o
| | | |
o generator o | ---
--- --- N.O.
- |
gnd |
---
-
chassis

This is my design, it *will* work, I ordered the parts, it meets my needs, I
ordered the parts and it's what I'm going to do.

All I care about is protecting the generator. The coil has to be energized
24/7 to do it, but there's no other way.

* if the generator isn't feeding power to the house and barn, it means we
forgot to turn off the main switch and we are feeding power into the grid.


As I see it, with this system power will not ever be fed back into the
grid, anytime there is power at the "service" terminal the generator
will be disconnected by the NC contacts and the ignition will be
killed by the NO contacts...

Wrong. It will feed power back to the grid *EVERY* time the grid power
is restored with the mains switch still on and the genset running.
When the mains power is restored, it will take some period of time
for the relay to move the contacts off of the N/C position. During
that brief period the genset will be connected to the grid. That
period, no matter how brief, contradicts "not ever".

His ONLY means of "not ever" feeding power back to the grid with
his hairbrained scheme is to trip the main breaker. Even then, note
that he is tapping power from the service panel BEFORE the main
breaker, which itself is a serious hazard. A short from genset
output to the signal wire will feed power out via the signal
wire, even if the mains breaker is tripped. So even with the
main breaker tripped, we cannot accurately state that power
will not ever be fed back to the grid.

And there's more. What happens when the N/C contacts weld? Or the
N/O contact goes open? Or the coil fails? Or the unfused signal
wire shorts to ground? Or goes open somewhere between the mains
and the relay?

Ed



Quote:

Mark


JosephKK
Guest

Tue Mar 02, 2010 7:04 am   



On Sun, 28 Feb 2010 21:45:13 -0500, "Jon" <jon8338_at_peoplepc.com> wrote:

Quote:
service

120vac 120vac signal
o o o
| | |
o o------------*
\ main \ |
o o |
| | |
| house | |
| | |
| | |
| barn | (COIL)
--- --- | generator ignition
-/- N.C. -/- N.C.. | o
| | | |
o generator o | ---
--- --- N.O.
- |
gnd |
---
-
chassis


This is my design, it *will* work, I ordered the parts, it meets my needs, I
ordered the parts and it's what I'm going to do.

All I care about is protecting the generator. The coil has to be energized
24/7 to do it, but there's no other way.

You have been told the right way several times. You did not read what you
need to know. This has safety and operational issues that you are willfully
ignoring. Your design will not work, and it may kill people including your
own family members.
Quote:

* if the generator isn't feeding power to the house and barn, it means we
forgot to turn off the main switch and we are feeding power into the grid.
To remedy this we can turn off the main switch. The generator will still be
ok.

No it won't!! Your generator will them be tasked with powering up all of your
neighbors, perhaps for many miles until that main is manually switched.
And 10 kW ain't nearly enough to power all your neighbors, then the genset dies,
perhaps with gouts of flame. Get the picture?

Get a pro to install an Automatic Bus Transfer Switch (ABT) and an automatic
generator starter circuit.

Quote:
* if the power goes on it will cut the generator ignition and open the feed
contacts. If the main switch is off anyway, this won't harm the generator.
If the power goes on, the main switch is on and the generator is on, there
will be a time delay for the relay to disconnect, but any problems will
throw the breaker in the barn for the generator, and the generator will
still be ok.

No it won't as described above.
Quote:

I'm not digging and running wires, I'm not paying the transfer box sharks,
and I'm doing this effectively, simply and easily. Did any of you hear?

Wannabe. It is neither effective nor workable.

Quote:
It's the end of the world and we have to do with what we've got. By the
time 10 kw reaches any lineman, it will be too diluted to do any harm.

Depends on how close the lineman is.

Quote:
It
probably won't make it above 1 volt. The current will be sunk into the
consumer grid abyss.

And that means there won't be any left for you without the transfer switch.
Quote:

I'm familiar with the N.E.C. and I've used it before.

Like Hell! You do not understand what it has to say about emergency power
systems.

Quote:
However my resources
are limited, everybody is too scared to give me any better ideas or they
just don't know.

They have been giving you better ideas, you just do not want to use them.

I do know, it is part of what they test for when you take the PE examination
for electrical engineers. I have had my license for 15 years. And i do
know what i am talking about.

JosephKK
Guest

Tue Mar 02, 2010 7:10 am   



On Mon, 1 Mar 2010 10:36:42 -0800 (PST), Mark <makolber_at_yahoo.com> wrote:

Quote:
On Feb 28, 9:45 pm, "Jon" <jon8...@peoplepc.com> wrote:
       service

120vac        120vac       signal
  o             o            o
  |             |            |
  o             o------------*
   \   main      \           |
  o             o            |
  |             |            |
  |    house    |            |
  |             |            |
  |             |            |
  |    barn     |          (COIL)
 ---           ---           |       generator ignition
 -/- N.C.      -/- N.C..     |               o
  |             |            |               |
  o generator   o            |              ---
                            ---             --- N.O.
                             -               |
                            gnd              |
                                            ---
                                             -
                                          chassis

This is my design, it *will* work, I ordered the parts, it meets my needs, I
ordered the parts and it's what I'm going to do.

All I care about is protecting the generator.  The coil has to be energized
24/7 to do it, but there's no other way.

* if the generator isn't feeding power to the house and barn, it means we
forgot to turn off the main switch and we are feeding power into the grid.

As I see it, with this system power will not ever be fed back into the
grid, anytime there is power at the "service" terminal the generator
will be disconnected by the NC contacts and the ignition will be
killed by the NO contacts...

Mark

His genset starts and connects to the existing house and barn bus, the
existing main is still on, thus he tries to power up all his neighbors
for miles around.

Mark
Guest

Tue Mar 02, 2010 5:00 pm   



Quote:

As I see it, with this system power will not ever be fed back into the
grid, anytime there is power at the "service" terminal the generator
will be disconnected by the NC contacts and the ignition will be
killed by the NO contacts...

Wrong. It will feed power back to the grid *EVERY* time the grid power
is restored with the mains switch still on and the genset running.

The generator cannot be started and will not run whenever the main
switch is on.
The generator cannot be started and will not run whenever there is
grid power at the service terminal.

Mark

Tim Watts
Guest

Tue Mar 02, 2010 7:06 pm   



Mark <makolber_at_yahoo.com>
wibbled on Tuesday 02 March 2010 15:00

Quote:


As I see it, with this system power will not ever be fed back into the
grid, anytime there is power at the "service" terminal the generator
will be disconnected by the NC contacts and the ignition will be
killed by the NO contacts...

Wrong. It will feed power back to the grid *EVERY* time the grid power
is restored with the mains switch still on and the genset running.

The generator cannot be started and will not run whenever the main
switch is on.
The generator cannot be started and will not run whenever there is
grid power at the service terminal.

Mark

Please don't encourage him.

With all due respect, in this context it doesn't matter if the logic is
"right", the design is wrong. Too many potential fail-hazard scenarios which
are easily avoided.

--
Tim Watts

Managers, politicians and environmentalists: Nature's carbon buffer.

D Yuniskis
Guest

Tue Mar 02, 2010 7:30 pm   



Hi Tim,

Tim Watts wrote:
Quote:
Please don't encourage him.

With all due respect, in this context it doesn't matter if the logic is
"right", the design is wrong. Too many potential fail-hazard scenarios which
are easily avoided.

I think he should build himself a tokamak and eliminate the
dependency altogether! Wink

ehsjr
Guest

Wed Mar 03, 2010 8:19 am   



Mark wrote:
Quote:
As I see it, with this system power will not ever be fed back into the
grid, anytime there is power at the "service" terminal the generator
will be disconnected by the NC contacts and the ignition will be
killed by the NO contacts...

Wrong. It will feed power back to the grid *EVERY* time the grid power
is restored with the mains switch still on and the genset running.


The generator cannot be started and will not run whenever the main
switch is on.

Of course it can. Utility power drops, the "killing" relay
drops, the genset starts. Some amount of time later it
comes up to speed, and depending on his hairbrained wiring,
the relay energizes from the generator produced power. Relays
do not transfer instantaneously. It takes time for the relay
contacts to move. During the time that the N/C contacts remain
closed, generator power is fed out through the mains breaker to
the grid. Again, that contradicts you contention that generator
power is "not ever" connected to the grid. Some number of
miliseconds after that the N/O contact makes, which kills the
genset.

Or, if there is a defect, the relay does not kill the genset.


Quote:
The generator cannot be started and will not run whenever there is
grid power at the service terminal.

The point that was made addressed grid power at the service panel
transitioning from off to on. You snipped the following:

***begin quote***
When the mains power is restored, it will take some period of time
for the relay to move the contacts off of the N/C position. During
that brief period the genset will be connected to the grid. That
period, no matter how brief, contradicts "not ever".
***end quote***

Transfer equipment must be 100% fail safe. It must ensure that
the genset is never ever connected to the grid. Not for 1 second.
Not for 1 milisecond. Not for 1 microsecond. Not for 1 nanosecond.
NEVER.

His proposed circuit is not only NOT fail safe, it is highly failure
prone, AND it can connect the genset, however briefly, to the grid
even if the circuit has no failure, as discussed above. It fails,
even with no bad components, because the design is wrong.

Ed


Quote:

Mark





Michael A. Terrell
Guest

Wed Mar 03, 2010 9:04 am   



ehsjr wrote:
Quote:

Mark wrote:
On Feb 28, 9:45 pm, "Jon" <jon8...@peoplepc.com> wrote:

service

120vac 120vac signal
o o o
| | |
o o------------*
\ main \ |
o o |
| | |
| house | |
| | |
| | |
| barn | (COIL)
--- --- | generator ignition
-/- N.C. -/- N.C.. | o
| | | |
o generator o | ---
--- --- N.O.
- |
gnd |
---
-
chassis

This is my design, it *will* work, I ordered the parts, it meets my needs, I
ordered the parts and it's what I'm going to do.

All I care about is protecting the generator. The coil has to be energized
24/7 to do it, but there's no other way.

* if the generator isn't feeding power to the house and barn, it means we
forgot to turn off the main switch and we are feeding power into the grid.


As I see it, with this system power will not ever be fed back into the
grid, anytime there is power at the "service" terminal the generator
will be disconnected by the NC contacts and the ignition will be
killed by the NO contacts...

Wrong. It will feed power back to the grid *EVERY* time the grid power
is restored with the mains switch still on and the genset running.
When the mains power is restored, it will take some period of time
for the relay to move the contacts off of the N/C position. During
that brief period the genset will be connected to the grid. That
period, no matter how brief, contradicts "not ever".

His ONLY means of "not ever" feeding power back to the grid with
his hairbrained scheme is to trip the main breaker. Even then, note
that he is tapping power from the service panel BEFORE the main
breaker, which itself is a serious hazard. A short from genset
output to the signal wire will feed power out via the signal
wire, even if the mains breaker is tripped. So even with the
main breaker tripped, we cannot accurately state that power
will not ever be fed back to the grid.

And there's more. What happens when the N/C contacts weld? Or the
N/O contact goes open? Or the coil fails? Or the unfused signal
wire shorts to ground? Or goes open somewhere between the mains
and the relay?


The generator rips loose from its mount as it explodes, and burns
down his barn?


--
Greed is the root of all eBay.

Glen Walpert
Guest

Wed Mar 03, 2010 3:25 pm   



On Wed, 03 Mar 2010 03:04:16 -0500, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Quote:
ehsjr wrote:

Mark wrote:
On Feb 28, 9:45 pm, "Jon" <jon8...@peoplepc.com> wrote:

service

120vac 120vac signal
o o o
| | |
o o------------*
\ main \ |
o o |
| | |
| house | |
| | |
| | |
| barn | (COIL)
--- --- | generator ignition -/- N.C.
-/- N.C.. | o
| | | | o generator o
| ---
--- --- N.O.
- |
gnd |
---
-
chassis

This is my design, it *will* work, I ordered the parts, it meets my
needs, I ordered the parts and it's what I'm going to do.

All I care about is protecting the generator. The coil has to be
energized 24/7 to do it, but there's no other way.

* if the generator isn't feeding power to the house and barn, it
means we forgot to turn off the main switch and we are feeding power
into the grid.


As I see it, with this system power will not ever be fed back into
the grid, anytime there is power at the "service" terminal the
generator will be disconnected by the NC contacts and the ignition
will be killed by the NO contacts...

Wrong. It will feed power back to the grid *EVERY* time the grid power
is restored with the mains switch still on and the genset running. When
the mains power is restored, it will take some period of time for the
relay to move the contacts off of the N/C position. During that brief
period the genset will be connected to the grid. That period, no
matter how brief, contradicts "not ever".

His ONLY means of "not ever" feeding power back to the grid with his
hairbrained scheme is to trip the main breaker. Even then, note that
he is tapping power from the service panel BEFORE the main breaker,
which itself is a serious hazard. A short from genset output to the
signal wire will feed power out via the signal wire, even if the mains
breaker is tripped. So even with the main breaker tripped, we cannot
accurately state that power will not ever be fed back to the grid.

And there's more. What happens when the N/C contacts weld? Or the N/O
contact goes open? Or the coil fails? Or the unfused signal wire
shorts to ground? Or goes open somewhere between the mains and the
relay?


The generator rips loose from its mount as it explodes, and burns
down his barn?

Then the insurance company finds the non-code hookup in the rubble and
refuses to pay.

But a more likely scenario is he backfeeds the local bit of grid through
the transformer up to the local medium voltage, the linesman comes out
and disconnects the faulty section from the grid, proceeds to repair the
fault and is electrocuted. This has happened more than once, and is the
main reason a *TRANSFER SWITCH* is *REQUIRED* BY ALL ELECTRICAL CODES.
Only a fool would fail to use this simple, low cost method of protecting
the grid from backfeed.

Anyone aware of a non-code generator hookup has a moral obligation to
report it to the local utility or building inspector. This kind of
hookup has killed too many people already.

mpm
Guest

Thu Mar 04, 2010 1:16 am   



On Feb 28, 9:45 pm, "Jon" <jon8...@peoplepc.com> wrote:
Quote:
       service

120vac        120vac       signal
  o             o            o
  |             |            |
  o             o------------*
   \   main      \           |
  o             o            |
  |             |            |
  |    house    |            |
  |             |            |
  |             |            |
  |    barn     |          (COIL)
 ---           ---           |       generator ignition
 -/- N.C.      -/- N.C..     |               o
  |             |            |               |
  o generator   o            |              ---
                            ---             --- N.O.
                             -               |
                            gnd              |
                                            ---
                                             -
                                          chassis

This is my design, it *will* work, I ordered the parts, it meets my needs, I
ordered the parts and it's what I'm going to do.

All I care about is protecting the generator.  The coil has to be energized
24/7 to do it, but there's no other way.

* if the generator isn't feeding power to the house and barn, it means we
forgot to turn off the main switch and we are feeding power into the grid..
To remedy this we can turn off the main switch.  The generator will still be
ok.
* if the power goes on it will cut the generator ignition and open the feed
contacts.  If the main switch is off anyway, this won't harm the generator.
If the power goes on, the main switch is on and the generator is on, there
will be a time delay for the relay to disconnect, but any problems will
throw the breaker in the barn for the generator, and the generator will
still be ok.

I'm not digging and running wires, I'm not paying the transfer box sharks,
and I'm doing this effectively, simply and easily.  Did any of you hear?
It's the end of the world and we have to do with what we've got.  By the
time 10 kw reaches any lineman, it will be too diluted to do any harm.  It
probably won't make it above 1 volt.  The current will be sunk into the
consumer grid abyss.

I'm familiar with the N.E.C. and I've used it before.  However my resources
are limited, everybody is too scared to give me any better ideas or they
just don't know.

You've obviously never seen electric disconnects fused together, have
you?
Tell you what, you hold this wire, and I'll go down the street and
fire up my generator.
We'll assume the utility is off for this discussion.

mpm
Guest

Thu Mar 04, 2010 1:19 am   



On Mar 1, 12:19 pm, Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-I...@My-
Web-Site.com> wrote:
Quote:
On Mon, 01 Mar 2010 10:13:46 -0600, John Fields





jfie...@austininstruments.com> wrote:
On Sun, 28 Feb 2010 21:45:13 -0500, "Jon" <jon8...@peoplepc.com> wrote:

      service

120vac        120vac       signal
 o             o            o
 |             |            |
 o             o------------*
  \   main      \           |
 o             o            |
 |             |            |
 |    house    |            |
 |             |            |
 |             |            |
 |    barn     |          (COIL)
---           ---           |       generator ignition
-/- N.C.      -/- N.C..     |               o
 |             |            |               |
 o generator   o            |              ---
                           ---             --- N.O.
                            -               |
                           gnd              |
                                           ---
                                            -
                                         chassis

This is my design, it *will* work, I ordered the parts, it meets my needs, I
ordered the parts and it's what I'm going to do.

---
Then you're either a bull-headed idiot or a troll.
---

All I care about is protecting the generator.  The coil has to be energized
24/7 to do it, but there's no other way.

---
That's not true.
---

* if the generator isn't feeding power to the house and barn, it means we
forgot to turn off the main switch and we are feeding power into the grid.
To remedy this we can turn off the main switch.  The generator will still be
ok.
* if the power goes on it will cut the generator ignition and open the feed
contacts.  If the main switch is off anyway, this won't harm the generator.
If the power goes on, the main switch is on and the generator is on, there
will be a time delay for the relay to disconnect, but any problems will
throw the breaker in the barn for the generator, and the generator will
still be ok.

---
I'm sure the breaker on the generator is rated to trip some time after
the current _out_ of the generator exceeds some level.  

All bets are off when the generator is run like a sink.
---

I'm not digging and running wires, I'm not paying the transfer box sharks,
and I'm doing this effectively, simply and easily.  Did any of you hear?
It's the end of the world and we have to do with what we've got.  By the
time 10 kw reaches any lineman, it will be too diluted to do any harm.  It
probably won't make it above 1 volt.  The current will be sunk into the
consumer grid abyss.

---
If the voltage that gets to the lineman won't make it to above a volt,
then that'll be your generator output voltage, which means your scheme
won't work.
---

I'm familiar with the N.E.C. and I've used it before.  However my resources
are limited, everybody is too scared to give me any better ideas or they
just don't know.

---
Nonsense.

Where does it say that just because we know how to do something we
should share it with someone who appears to be irresponsible?

JF

Don't knock natural selection... it's 100% effective ;-)

                                        ...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, CTO                            |    mens     |
| Analog Innovations, Inc.                         |     et      |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems  |    manus    |
| Phoenix, Arizona  85048    Skype: Contacts Only  |             |
| Voice:(480)460-2350  Fax: Available upon request |  Brass Rat  |
| E-mail Icon athttp://www.analog-innovations.com|    1962     |

I love to cook with wine.     Sometimes I even put it in the food.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

How did you get here then?

Sorry, just kidding. Couldn't resist!
But all you have to do is look around and you (esp. the government, or
TSA) and you know your statement can't possibly be true!!

-mpm

mpm
Guest

Thu Mar 04, 2010 1:22 am   



On Feb 28, 9:45 pm, "Jon" <jon8...@peoplepc.com> wrote:
Quote:
       service

120vac        120vac       signal
  o             o            o
  |             |            |
  o             o------------*
   \   main      \           |
  o             o            |
  |             |            |
  |    house    |            |
  |             |            |
  |             |            |
  |    barn     |          (COIL)
 ---           ---           |       generator ignition
 -/- N.C.      -/- N.C..     |               o
  |             |            |               |
  o generator   o            |              ---
                            ---             --- N.O.
                             -               |
                            gnd              |
                                            ---
                                             -
                                          chassis

This is my design, it *will* work, I ordered the parts, it meets my needs, I
ordered the parts and it's what I'm going to do.

All I care about is protecting the generator.  The coil has to be energized
24/7 to do it, but there's no other way.

* if the generator isn't feeding power to the house and barn, it means we
forgot to turn off the main switch and we are feeding power into the grid..
To remedy this we can turn off the main switch.  The generator will still be
ok.
* if the power goes on it will cut the generator ignition and open the feed
contacts.  If the main switch is off anyway, this won't harm the generator.
If the power goes on, the main switch is on and the generator is on, there
will be a time delay for the relay to disconnect, but any problems will
throw the breaker in the barn for the generator, and the generator will
still be ok.

I'm not digging and running wires, I'm not paying the transfer box sharks,
and I'm doing this effectively, simply and easily.  Did any of you hear?
It's the end of the world and we have to do with what we've got.  By the
time 10 kw reaches any lineman, it will be too diluted to do any harm.  It
probably won't make it above 1 volt.  The current will be sunk into the
consumer grid abyss.

I'm familiar with the N.E.C. and I've used it before.  However my resources
are limited, everybody is too scared to give me any better ideas or they
just don't know.

Respectfully, if the generator cared about itself, it would let you
anywhere near it!

mpm
Guest

Thu Mar 04, 2010 1:31 am   



On Mar 3, 6:22 pm, mpm <mpmill...@aol.com> wrote:
Quote:
On Feb 28, 9:45 pm, "Jon" <jon8...@peoplepc.com> wrote:





       service

120vac        120vac       signal
  o             o            o
  |             |            |
  o             o------------*
   \   main      \           |
  o             o            |
  |             |            |
  |    house    |            |
  |             |            |
  |             |            |
  |    barn     |          (COIL)
 ---           ---           |       generator ignition
 -/- N.C.      -/- N.C..     |               o
  |             |            |               |
  o generator   o            |              ---
                            ---             --- N.O.
                             -               |
                            gnd              |
                                            ---
                                             -
                                          chassis

This is my design, it *will* work, I ordered the parts, it meets my needs, I
ordered the parts and it's what I'm going to do.

All I care about is protecting the generator.  The coil has to be energized
24/7 to do it, but there's no other way.

* if the generator isn't feeding power to the house and barn, it means we
forgot to turn off the main switch and we are feeding power into the grid.
To remedy this we can turn off the main switch.  The generator will still be
ok.
* if the power goes on it will cut the generator ignition and open the feed
contacts.  If the main switch is off anyway, this won't harm the generator.
If the power goes on, the main switch is on and the generator is on, there
will be a time delay for the relay to disconnect, but any problems will
throw the breaker in the barn for the generator, and the generator will
still be ok.

I'm not digging and running wires, I'm not paying the transfer box sharks,
and I'm doing this effectively, simply and easily.  Did any of you hear?
It's the end of the world and we have to do with what we've got.  By the
time 10 kw reaches any lineman, it will be too diluted to do any harm.  It
probably won't make it above 1 volt.  The current will be sunk into the
consumer grid abyss.

I'm familiar with the N.E.C. and I've used it before.  However my resources
are limited, everybody is too scared to give me any better ideas or they
just don't know.

Respectfully, if the generator cared about itself, it would let you
anywhere near it!- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

OK - let's try this again ---

Respectfully, if the generator cared about itself, it WOULDN'T let you
anywhere near it!



I've noticed lately, that my typing make very simple mistakes like
that.
So, either I'm going bonkers, or this keyboard is complete shit, or
some background process is deliberately changing what I type.
It's been happening for about 2 or 3 months now (that I can detect).

I type very fast, and am not in the habit of proofing everything I
write online.
But I guess I'll have to start, now. Or go get a brainscan.
This sort of stuff really pisses me off.

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