FreePCB compared to Eagle and others?

Mon Feb 21, 2005 10:21 pm   

I am looking at using the open source PCB layout software FreePCB. I
have used Eagle in the past, but I want to make a board slightly larger
than the free version will support. I searched a bit looking for
comments on FreePCB, but I don't see any. The latest note from the
developer says he has not received any bug reports on the latest
version. So it sounds like it might be usable.

Anyone had any experience with this?

Thu Feb 24, 2005 5:47 pm   

I've tried it. It is remarkably stable, and does more than free
closed-source layout programs I've tried. It comes with a large
library of pre-defined footprints and has a built in footprint editor
that is very easy to use. There aren't many limitations in FreePCB
that I know of.

I can't compare it to Eagle, haven't used it.

-Chris

proxy wrote:

Wed Mar 02, 2005 2:01 pm   

info_at_bostonsemiconductor.com wrote:

Does FreePCB autoroute at all? Didn't find any mention in the homepage.

Thu Mar 03, 2005 4:44 am   

The Home page (http://www.freepcb.com/) says it does not have an autorouter
yer (what does it mean, BTW?, I'm a newbie....)



Luca
http://home.rochester.rr.com/lucabri/


"Severi Salminen" <severi.salminen_at_NOT_THISsiba.fi> wrote in message
news:7HjVd.2431$oV6.192_at_reader1.news.jippii.net...

Thu Mar 03, 2005 12:17 pm   

Thot wrote:

Autorouter draws or tries to draw all the tracks automagically according
to the schematic. This can also be infuenced by many different rules.
This operation can also be very time consuming if the board is very
complex. But basically autorouter can save a lot of time.

Eagle, for example, has an autorouter. It can we found here:

http://www.cadsoft.de/

Thu Mar 03, 2005 8:21 pm   

All I can say that's positive about FreePCB is it's free. Other than
that it's pretty awful. Reminds me of one of the original,
pre-historic layout products back in the 70's. It was like a system
we had based on a DEC PDP 11 in college.

But if you haven't any money then go try and use it. You might, just,
get a rudimentary PCB out of it. However, if you have a few hundred
dollars to spare then go get something that does the job properly...
Don't mess with this nonsense.

Prescott

Fri Mar 04, 2005 2:27 am   

A person just posted on the Forum of TARGET3001:
http://www.ibfriedrich.com/cgibin/forum_e.cgi?index=393

Hello,
I have a Target 3001! Smart v 11 license, with a 700 pin/pad limit.
I have used Target 3001 to design the schematic of the circuit I was
developing in my graduate work. As the time was not too much, I have
used the Target embedded autorouter to partly route my circuit, with
two layers, about 500 pads. Then, I have modified some autorouted
tracks, but, anyway, the autorouter has made it possible to save hours
and hours (if not a few days), and realize also the PCB with soldered
components, so I had it available on the academy board's desk. The
whole conceptual work and the final circuit project are the important
things in earning a degree, but also the physically realized circuit
was of great interest to the academy board! Thank you.

I agree, that an autorouter is really something you should think about.

Certain parts of layout, like RF or analog should be done mostly by
hand. But often circuits have a digital parts you the tool can do it
for you, much faster. Especially, if you can select traces and options
in an autorouter your result will turn out good. For how much,$59 or
$149 that is really worth the money.
...richard



Don Prescott wrote:

Fri Mar 04, 2005 2:37 am   

Don Prescott <DMBPrescott_at_aol.com> wrote:
: All I can say that's positive about FreePCB is it's free. Other than
: that it's pretty awful. Reminds me of one of the original,
: pre-historic layout products back in the 70's. It was like a system
: we had based on a DEC PDP 11 in college.

If the OP runs Linux, he might try looking at gEDA/PCB:

http://www.geda.seul.org/

It's becoming the cannonical free/open-source EDA suite for Linux
users.

: But if you haven't any money then go try and use it. You might, just,
: get a rudimentary PCB out of it. However, if you have a few hundred
: dollars to spare then go get something that does the job properly...
: Don't mess with this nonsense.

Don't worry about Don -- he hates any software which you can get for
free:

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/sci.electronics.cad/browse_frm/thread/b0996f4a0dcd308e/ba69b0f5ab66a751#ba69b0f5ab66a751

We all suspect that Don is a rudimentary AI application written by
Cadence or Synopsys.

I suggest that the OP try FreePCB, and then give gEDA/PCB a spin. I
can't speak for FreePCB, but I'll bet that he'll be plesantly suprised
by the quality offered by the free/open-source package gEDA/PCB.

In any event, one is always best off trying the application for
ones-self than taking advice from Usenet. My advice: Take
suggestions from Usenet posters, but form one's own opinion.

Stuart

Fri Mar 04, 2005 3:01 am   

I know it's not sporting to follow up to my own post, but I forgot to
make a point.

Stuart Brorson <sdb_at_cloud9.net> wrote:
: I suggest that the OP try FreePCB, and then give gEDA/PCB a spin. I
: can't speak for FreePCB, but I'll bet that he'll be plesantly suprised
: by the quality offered by the free/open-source package gEDA/PCB.

gEDA/PCB also has an autorouter, so it also provides that particular
feature required for professional-quality work.

Stuart

Fri Mar 04, 2005 5:11 am   

Stuart Brorson <sdb_at_cloud9.net> writes:

And an autoplacer.

And a trace optimizer, not that I've gotten a lot of feedback about
what it does to your board.

Sat Mar 05, 2005 9:58 am   

Not true. I have played with the odd game I got for free in the past.
In general though, for design tools you gets what you pay for. Some
products are remarkably good value and impressive for the money - but
money has to be involved if you are designing a fair size board that's
not locked to a specific board manufacturer.

On top of the product usually being pretty gruesome to use you tend to
get 'minor' drawbacks like you're in the middle of a job after
spending 3 weeks on it and low and behold the file is corrupt and 'cos
it's free or super cheap there ain't nobody to fix it for me. I have
to start again. Or if some feature that I need that's supposed to
work doesn't and 'cos it's open source there's nobody responsible....
So, the few hundred bucks I tried to save has been wiped-out there and
then.

I saw something on here a few weeks back where a guy claimed an
aerospace company had switched to 'open source' PCB software. Of
course the company was never named. So, here's an invitation gimme
some known companies that have switched to 'open source' on PCB
design....And NOT down in some lab at a far flung outpost, I'm talking
mainstream design. And PLEASE stick to the question - don't start
telling me about Apache servers.

Prescott

Mon Mar 07, 2005 2:17 pm   

Don, I can understand your reluctance to view free software as having
reasonable quality if you have had experience in the past with other
free tools that corrupted data or weren't supported.

FreePCB and gEDA/PCB don't have those problems.

What free PCB tools have you used?

-Chris

Don Prescott wrote:

Tue Mar 08, 2005 11:00 am   

These products don't produce the occasional corrupt design....? Well,
that is quite remarkable. How do you know? How many boards have you
designed with FreePCB and gEDA/PCB...?

What free board design tools have I tried.... well let's see, I tried
AutoTRAX (the new one)- it's still at beta level after about 3 years,
and it's no longer free. Erm.... the free version of Eagle. That's
not bad for a free product. But you can't count that one, it's only
useful for mickey mouse size boards in free form. I would not use a
free PCB layout product on anything that has a commercial application.
I only use products that are supported.

I haven't tried gEDA/PCB 'cos I believe it's Linux and I don't use
Linux.

My point is this, yes if you look around the web you can find a free
version of many applications, but not many people in the commercial
world care to use these products. The potential savings just aren't
worth it. OK. you're gonna say I'm wrong. The invitation is still
open - name some known commercial organisations using open source
tools for PCB Layout - (again, only PCB layout not servers, etc).

Prescott

Tue Mar 08, 2005 1:39 pm   

Don Prescott wrote:

That is to your shame! Even the worst distribution of Linux is better
than the best distribution of 'doze.

However, gEDA runs just fine under 'doze. The guys working on it are
hardware and software professionals. As I understand it, some of
them are even being paid by their employers to work on this project.


You are completely missing the point. There are scads of guys running
small 1 or 2 person shops that cannot afford to spend $5000-50,000 per year to
keep a seat of [Orcad,Mentor,Cadence...] warm.

With the commercial software, you generally get *almost* exactly what you
pay for... The cheap hobby priced tools like Eagle, are just exactly that,
cheap hobby grade tools.

The gEDA tool suite aspires to be much more. You need only do a google
search on "Icarus Verilog" to get an idea of who's using the free tools,
and for what. gEDA is certainly being used by most, if not all major
universities.

-Chuck Harris

Tue Mar 08, 2005 2:50 pm   

I strongly suggest you try these tools before you criticize them. The
tools you've tried are all trial versions of closed source, commercial
tools. Try the open source tools, you'll be surprised by how well they
perform.

If you like windows, FreePCB only runs on windows, and PCB runs happily
on windows through Cygwin.

I built 4 boards with open source PCB tools. This isn't a huge sample
size, but at least I am speaking from experience. No doubt if you
change your question to, "who out there has fabbed a board with these
tools?", you'll be flooded with response.

-Chris

Don Prescott wrote: