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Guest

Sat Feb 02, 2019 5:45 pm   



On Fri, 1 Feb 2019 23:14:44 -0600, amdx <nojunk_at_knology.net> wrote:

Quote:
On 1/31/2019 9:15 PM, bitrex wrote:
On 01/31/2019 08:55 PM, bill.sloman_at_ieee.org wrote:

†† I'm doing my best to tell college students, that they will be the
high
earners in society, they will be part of the 50% that actually pay
taxes. The more programs they vote for now, will just take more of their
paycheck when they start earning.
†† None of the free programs are free, YOU the college educated will
being paying for them.

The US is overdue for the kind of tax reform which will extract enough
from the top 1% of the income distribution to reduce the tax load on
the the rest of the population that actually pays taxes.

Properly constructed "free" programs pay off in ways that aren't
immediately financially obvious.

The US is at position 19 of the CIA's league table of national average
incomes per head

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2004rank.html


Most of the leading countries are too small to take seriously, but
Ireland (10th), Norway (11th) and Switzerland (18th). The Netherlands
- at 23rd - appears to lag, but it's got universal health care so
their $53,600 per head probably leaves them better off than the US
$59,500 per head.

The Dutch education system is a whole lot more equal opportunity that
it's US equivalent, and the Dutch have appreciably more
intergenerational social mobility that the US (as do pretty much all
northern European countries - the UK lags the rest, but not as much as
the US does).

http://www.verisi.com/resources/prosperity-upward-mobility.htm


amdx seems like a chode of the old school variety, he tells young men to
do exactly the same thing young men were doing 50 years ago, the usual
Con...servative lines "get a degree in whatever, you'll get hired
immediately at great pay, work hard, save money, you'll get to marry a
beautiful woman of your choice who will appreciate you for all that
stuff, everything will easily fall into place"

...and in 2019 many young men are going to get fucked hard for taking
these platitudes and tired right-wing talking points at face value.

I think the stats still say that those with a college degree earn more
than those without. But, I agree there are plenty of $50,000 dollar a
year jobs that don't require a degree. I don't have any type of degree
myself. I also thought that I was a lower middle class earner most of my
life, although in my later life I've done some calculations and found my
household income was actually a little above the US. household mean.


If that $50K were invested, rather than sunk into a "Women's Studies"
degree, it would be the start of a decent retirement.

Quote:
The household income mean is around $57,000, I have an inflation
adjusted income of around $71,000. (i used my SS statement to see my
long term earnings, then adjusted for inflation.)


You were willing to actually *work* for a living.

Quote:
So, what I said was the college educated will pay taxes, that will
make them part of the 50% that pay taxes in the US. Liberal weenies will
always say, Oh but the lower income people pay SS taxes, yes, and they
get the most back from those SS taxes also. I consider SS a retirement
program and disability program. Not a tax to run the country.


As do I, but the reality is different.

Quote:
I will say both of my kids are in college and I expect and hope they
both will have higher earning because of their degrees.
I expect one to have a degree in chemical engineering and the other
will be a dentist. She has already found a handsome husband!


Assuming yours have learned from you, they'll be at the top of the
curve. 1%ers, even. Most won't - having trouble coming up with $400
in an emergency (including credit cards).

Quote:
When you start with name calling, you've already conceded you have
lost the point.



Guest

Sat Feb 02, 2019 5:45 pm   



On Fri, 1 Feb 2019 21:28:49 -0800 (PST),
gnuarm.deletethisbit_at_gmail.com wrote:

Quote:
On Saturday, February 2, 2019 at 12:07:29 AM UTC-5, edward....@gmail.com wrote:
On Friday, February 1, 2019 at 8:34:43 PM UTC-8, k...@notreal.com wrote:
On Thu, 31 Jan 2019 14:14:57 -0600, amdx <nojunk_at_knology.net> wrote:

On 1/31/2019 1:52 PM, bitrex wrote:
On 01/31/2019 11:50 AM, amdx wrote:
On 1/30/2019 6:31 PM, bitrex wrote:
On 01/30/2019 07:24 PM, edward.ming.lee_at_gmail.com wrote:

This is for charging 24KWH Nissan Leaf as stated in the article.

OK, third column should be in KW and Tesla rate should be below SF.
Table looks better in fix-pitch font.

†† SOC††† Amp†††† KW†††† MPH††† CPM (Cents Per Mile)
†† 90††††† 20††††† 8††††† 24†††† 37†††††††††††††††††† $9.03 gasoline
†† 80††††† 25†††† 10††††† 30†††† 30
†† 70††††† 30†††† 12††††† 36†††† 25†††††††††††††††††† $6.05 gasoline
†† 60††††† 40†††† 16††††† 48†††† 19
†† 50††††† 50†††† 20††††† 60†††† 15†††††††††††††††††† $3.75 gasoline
†† 40††††† 70†††† 28††††† 84†††† 11
†††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††† 10††††† San Francisco Electricity
††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††† 9††††† Tesla Supercharger
†† 30††††† 90†††† 36††††† 98††††† 8†††††††††††††††††† $2.00 gasoline
††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††† 5††††† San Mateo Solar Electricity
††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††† 4††††† Nevada Electricity
††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††† 3††††† Arizona Electricity



For the moment looks like the prices are oriented to gouge the
wealthy Tesla owners who definitely don't buy $50k, $80k, or $100k
vehicles to save money on gas. Yeah it kinda sucks for people like me
with $26k EVs but what ya gonna do most of us charge our modest packs
at home most of the time anyway.

It's hard to get too miffed about the quite wealthy having to pay
high rates for their toys or fight for legislation to protect 'em.
Dawww poor kiddos.

††† Why hate on the rich? Just because they have done well doesn't mean

Also you have a weird definition of "hate" I never said I hated nobody.
I was suggesting that it's probably pointless to try to legislate that
businesses whose business model seems to implicitly be to cater to them
by charging by the minute rather than the kWh to do otherwise, that's
their model such as it is.

I must agree that they should charge by the kWh, I would tolerate a
time charge for those hogging the charger space more time than others
i.e. the slow chargers, but it seems of any group, government aught to
encourage electric and not punish the slow chargers.

That depends on the cost structure of the station, doesn't it? If the
land or improvements dominate the cost, I'd think a timed charge is
quite reasonable. If electricity dominates, charge by the kWh.
Really, just charge what the market will bear.

For many of the EvGo/ElectrifyAmerica installations, they are in the middle of nowhere, where land is cheap. Some chargers also run by solar, which costs less than $0.10/KWH. They are doing so just because they are pretty much micro-monopoly in certain region, using discriminatory pricing to maximize profit. I see anti-trust issues.


I looked at the maps on both web sites and didn't find many chargers I would say were "in the middle of nowhere". Have you actually looked???

They also seem to have rather poor coverage of many areas. EVGO has no chargers anywhere along Rt 95 between Washington, DC and Jacksonville, FL... what, 700 miles? I guess some cars have very good batteries. Electrify America has chargers along that route, but one of the distances is around 230 miles. Do the EVs other than Tesla have that much range?


One of the "consumer reporters", and ex-Tesla.fanboi, on the radio
here, said his Tesla-S is down to 35mi per charge. Going to be a long
trip for him to DC.


Guest

Sat Feb 02, 2019 5:45 pm   



On Fri, 1 Feb 2019 21:07:24 -0800 (PST), edward.ming.lee_at_gmail.com
wrote:

Quote:
On Friday, February 1, 2019 at 8:34:43 PM UTC-8, k...@notreal.com wrote:
On Thu, 31 Jan 2019 14:14:57 -0600, amdx <nojunk_at_knology.net> wrote:

On 1/31/2019 1:52 PM, bitrex wrote:
On 01/31/2019 11:50 AM, amdx wrote:
On 1/30/2019 6:31 PM, bitrex wrote:
On 01/30/2019 07:24 PM, edward.ming.lee_at_gmail.com wrote:

This is for charging 24KWH Nissan Leaf as stated in the article.

OK, third column should be in KW and Tesla rate should be below SF.
Table looks better in fix-pitch font.

†† SOC††† Amp†††† KW†††† MPH††† CPM (Cents Per Mile)
†† 90††††† 20††††† 8††††† 24†††† 37†††††††††††††††††† $9.03 gasoline
†† 80††††† 25†††† 10††††† 30†††† 30
†† 70††††† 30†††† 12††††† 36†††† 25†††††††††††††††††† $6.05 gasoline
†† 60††††† 40†††† 16††††† 48†††† 19
†† 50††††† 50†††† 20††††† 60†††† 15†††††††††††††††††† $3.75 gasoline
†† 40††††† 70†††† 28††††† 84†††† 11
†††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††† 10††††† San Francisco Electricity
††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††† 9††††† Tesla Supercharger
†† 30††††† 90†††† 36††††† 98††††† 8†††††††††††††††††† $2.00 gasoline
††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††† 5††††† San Mateo Solar Electricity
††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††† 4††††† Nevada Electricity
††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††† 3††††† Arizona Electricity



For the moment looks like the prices are oriented to gouge the
wealthy Tesla owners who definitely don't buy $50k, $80k, or $100k
vehicles to save money on gas. Yeah it kinda sucks for people like me
with $26k EVs but what ya gonna do most of us charge our modest packs
at home most of the time anyway.

It's hard to get too miffed about the quite wealthy having to pay
high rates for their toys or fight for legislation to protect 'em.
Dawww poor kiddos.

††† Why hate on the rich? Just because they have done well doesn't mean

Also you have a weird definition of "hate" I never said I hated nobody.
I was suggesting that it's probably pointless to try to legislate that
businesses whose business model seems to implicitly be to cater to them
by charging by the minute rather than the kWh to do otherwise, that's
their model such as it is.

I must agree that they should charge by the kWh, I would tolerate a
time charge for those hogging the charger space more time than others
i.e. the slow chargers, but it seems of any group, government aught to
encourage electric and not punish the slow chargers.

That depends on the cost structure of the station, doesn't it? If the
land or improvements dominate the cost, I'd think a timed charge is
quite reasonable. If electricity dominates, charge by the kWh.
Really, just charge what the market will bear.

For many of the EvGo/ElectrifyAmerica installations, they are in the middle of nowhere, where land is cheap.


Not true. The only place I've seen charging stations is in shopping
malls, and such. That land is _quite_ expensive.

> Some chargers also run by solar, which costs less than $0.10/KWH.

Hell, I don't pay that much for electricity at home ($.07/kWh now).

>They are doing so just because they are pretty much micro-monopoly in certain region, using discriminatory pricing to maximize profit. I see anti-trust issues.

Utter nonsense. If you think there is so much money to be made, start
building solar charging stations. You'll be rich!

Joseph Gwinn
Guest

Sat Feb 02, 2019 6:45 pm   



On Feb 1, 2019, bitrex wrote
(in article <H575E.328766$Z45.227003_at_fx44.iad>):

Quote:
On 02/01/2019 05:05 PM, John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 30 Jan 2019 14:53:40 -0800 (PST), edward.ming.lee_at_gmail.com
wrote:

We are writing a proposal for a local government trying to
facilitate fair pricing of charging, probably with a
ChargePoint fast charger. ChargePoint allows them to set
pricing. By the way, Evgo charge $0.15/min (member) and
$0.20/min (non-member). Some charge as much as $0.39/min.
That's legal highway robbery.

Evgo's pricing structure is unfair to older vehicles. Especially
for older vehicles like (around 300,000) Leaf, cost equivalence
is close to $9/gal gasoline when charging around 70% to 90%
State Of Charge (SOC).

Even for reduced membership cost of 15 cents per minute:

SOC Amp KwHr MPH CPM (Cents Per Mile)
90 20 8 24 37 $9.03 gasoline
80 25 10 30 30
70 30 12 36 25 $6.05 gasoline
60 40 16 48 19
50 50 20 60 15 $3.75 gasoline
40 70 28 84 11 Tesla Supercharger
10 San Francisco Electricity
30 90 36 98 8 $2.00 gasoline
5 San Mateo Solar Electricity
4 Nevada Electricity
3 Arizona Electricity

We propose a charging fee of 5 cents per minute and 15 cents per
KiloWattHours. This will bring the cost equivalence close to $2/gal
to $3/gal.

SOC Amp KWH MPH $/gal
90 20 8 24 $3.00
80 25 10 30 $3.00
70 30 12 36 $2.00
60 40 16 48 $2.00
50 50 20 60 $2.00
40 70 28 84 $3.00
30 90 36 98 $4.00

What do you think?


This solves the range anxiety problem:


https://sparkcharge.io/

Somerville MA is like a spot-on caricature of all Conservative
stereotypes about bohemian "urban liberal elites", "metrosexuals",
manbuns, everyone's got a trust fund and rides a fixed gear bicycle and
sports at least five tattoos.

It's not true everywhere, but they're mostly all true there.


For those who donīt live in Massachusetts, there is a little bit of local
detail thatīs useful to know:

Somerville borders on Cambridge, Mass, and is now a yuppie haven. The
original blue-collar population of Somerville was priced out long ago, when
Cambridge ran out of housing space.

Joe Gwinn


Guest

Sun Feb 03, 2019 2:45 am   



On Friday, February 1, 2019 at 9:28:53 PM UTC-8, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:
Quote:
On Saturday, February 2, 2019 at 12:07:29 AM UTC-5, edward....@gmail.com wrote:
On Friday, February 1, 2019 at 8:34:43 PM UTC-8, k...@notreal.com wrote:
On Thu, 31 Jan 2019 14:14:57 -0600, amdx <nojunk_at_knology.net> wrote:

On 1/31/2019 1:52 PM, bitrex wrote:
On 01/31/2019 11:50 AM, amdx wrote:
On 1/30/2019 6:31 PM, bitrex wrote:
On 01/30/2019 07:24 PM, edward.ming.lee_at_gmail.com wrote:

This is for charging 24KWH Nissan Leaf as stated in the article.

OK, third column should be in KW and Tesla rate should be below SF.
Table looks better in fix-pitch font.

   SOC    Amp     KW     MPH    CPM (Cents Per Mile)
   90      20      8      24     37                   $9.03 gasoline
   80      25     10      30     30
   70      30     12      36     25                   $6.05 gasoline
   60      40     16      48     19
   50      50     20      60     15                   $3.75 gasoline
   40      70     28      84     11
                                 10      San Francisco Electricity
                                  9      Tesla Supercharger
   30      90     36      98      8                   $2.00 gasoline
                                  5      San Mateo Solar Electricity
                                  4      Nevada Electricity
                                  3      Arizona Electricity



For the moment looks like the prices are oriented to gouge the
wealthy Tesla owners who definitely don't buy $50k, $80k, or $100k
vehicles to save money on gas. Yeah it kinda sucks for people like me
with $26k EVs but what ya gonna do most of us charge our modest packs
at home most of the time anyway.

It's hard to get too miffed about the quite wealthy having to pay
high rates for their toys or fight for legislation to protect 'em.
Dawww poor kiddos.

    Why hate on the rich? Just because they have done well doesn't mean

Also you have a weird definition of "hate" I never said I hated nobody.
I was suggesting that it's probably pointless to try to legislate that
businesses whose business model seems to implicitly be to cater to them
by charging by the minute rather than the kWh to do otherwise, that's
their model such as it is.

I must agree that they should charge by the kWh, I would tolerate a
time charge for those hogging the charger space more time than others
i.e. the slow chargers, but it seems of any group, government aught to
encourage electric and not punish the slow chargers.

That depends on the cost structure of the station, doesn't it? If the
land or improvements dominate the cost, I'd think a timed charge is
quite reasonable. If electricity dominates, charge by the kWh.
Really, just charge what the market will bear.

For many of the EvGo/ElectrifyAmerica installations, they are in the middle of nowhere, where land is cheap. Some chargers also run by solar, which costs less than $0.10/KWH. They are doing so just because they are pretty much micro-monopoly in certain region, using discriminatory pricing to maximize profit. I see anti-trust issues.


I looked at the maps on both web sites and didn't find many chargers I would say were "in the middle of nowhere". Have you actually looked???

They also seem to have rather poor coverage of many areas. EVGO has no chargers anywhere along Rt 95 between Washington, DC and Jacksonville, FL... what, 700 miles? I guess some cars have very good batteries. Electrify America has chargers along that route, but one of the distances is around 230 miles. Do the EVs other than Tesla have that much range?


Consider the followig two examples:

Bakersfield, downtown, chargepoint, $0.05/min, $3 for 30 miles. Plenty of chargers in area.

Delano: Walmart, evGo, $0.15/min, $10 for 30 miles.
It's 30 miles north of Bakersfield, in the middle of nowhere.
No other chargers within 30 miles of Delano.

Downtown real estate is certainly more expensive in Bakersfield
than Delano. Both are running from Solar carports.

Not saying local government should regulate,
but should facilate/foster competitions.


Guest

Sun Feb 03, 2019 2:45 am   



On Saturday, February 2, 2019 at 8:05:59 PM UTC-5, edward....@gmail.com wrote:
Quote:
On Friday, February 1, 2019 at 9:28:53 PM UTC-8, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:
On Saturday, February 2, 2019 at 12:07:29 AM UTC-5, edward....@gmail.com wrote:
On Friday, February 1, 2019 at 8:34:43 PM UTC-8, k...@notreal.com wrote:
On Thu, 31 Jan 2019 14:14:57 -0600, amdx <nojunk_at_knology.net> wrote:

On 1/31/2019 1:52 PM, bitrex wrote:
On 01/31/2019 11:50 AM, amdx wrote:
On 1/30/2019 6:31 PM, bitrex wrote:
On 01/30/2019 07:24 PM, edward.ming.lee_at_gmail.com wrote:

This is for charging 24KWH Nissan Leaf as stated in the article.

OK, third column should be in KW and Tesla rate should be below SF.
Table looks better in fix-pitch font.

   SOC    Amp     KW     MPH    CPM (Cents Per Mile)
   90      20      8      24     37                   $9.03 gasoline
   80      25     10      30     30
   70      30     12      36     25                   $6.05 gasoline
   60      40     16      48     19
   50      50     20      60     15                   $3.75 gasoline
   40      70     28      84     11
                                 10      San Francisco Electricity
                                  9      Tesla Supercharger
   30      90     36      98      8                   $2.00 gasoline
                                  5      San Mateo Solar Electricity
                                  4      Nevada Electricity
                                  3      Arizona Electricity



For the moment looks like the prices are oriented to gouge the
wealthy Tesla owners who definitely don't buy $50k, $80k, or $100k
vehicles to save money on gas. Yeah it kinda sucks for people like me
with $26k EVs but what ya gonna do most of us charge our modest packs
at home most of the time anyway.

It's hard to get too miffed about the quite wealthy having to pay
high rates for their toys or fight for legislation to protect 'em.
Dawww poor kiddos.

    Why hate on the rich? Just because they have done well doesn't mean

Also you have a weird definition of "hate" I never said I hated nobody.
I was suggesting that it's probably pointless to try to legislate that
businesses whose business model seems to implicitly be to cater to them
by charging by the minute rather than the kWh to do otherwise, that's
their model such as it is.

I must agree that they should charge by the kWh, I would tolerate a
time charge for those hogging the charger space more time than others
i.e. the slow chargers, but it seems of any group, government aught to
encourage electric and not punish the slow chargers.

That depends on the cost structure of the station, doesn't it? If the
land or improvements dominate the cost, I'd think a timed charge is
quite reasonable. If electricity dominates, charge by the kWh.
Really, just charge what the market will bear.

For many of the EvGo/ElectrifyAmerica installations, they are in the middle of nowhere, where land is cheap. Some chargers also run by solar, which costs less than $0.10/KWH. They are doing so just because they are pretty much micro-monopoly in certain region, using discriminatory pricing to maximize profit. I see anti-trust issues.


I looked at the maps on both web sites and didn't find many chargers I would say were "in the middle of nowhere". Have you actually looked???

They also seem to have rather poor coverage of many areas. EVGO has no chargers anywhere along Rt 95 between Washington, DC and Jacksonville, FL.... what, 700 miles? I guess some cars have very good batteries. Electrify America has chargers along that route, but one of the distances is around 230 miles. Do the EVs other than Tesla have that much range?


Consider the followig two examples:

Bakersfield, downtown, chargepoint, $0.05/min, $3 for 30 miles. Plenty of chargers in area.

Delano: Walmart, evGo, $0.15/min, $10 for 30 miles.
It's 30 miles north of Bakersfield, in the middle of nowhere.
No other chargers within 30 miles of Delano.

Downtown real estate is certainly more expensive in Bakersfield
than Delano. Both are running from Solar carports.

Not saying local government should regulate,
but should facilate/foster competitions.


Uh, one is Chargepoint and the other is EVGO. Obviously they each charge differently. I don't get how Delano is "the middle of nowhere". Whatever....


Rick C.

--++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209


Guest

Sun Feb 03, 2019 4:45 am   



On Saturday, February 2, 2019 at 10:03:09 PM UTC-5, edward....@gmail.com wrote:
Quote:
On Saturday, February 2, 2019 at 5:25:41 PM UTC-8, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:
On Saturday, February 2, 2019 at 8:05:59 PM UTC-5, edward....@gmail.com wrote:
On Friday, February 1, 2019 at 9:28:53 PM UTC-8, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:
On Saturday, February 2, 2019 at 12:07:29 AM UTC-5, edward....@gmail.com wrote:

For many of the EvGo/ElectrifyAmerica installations, they are in the middle of nowhere, where land is cheap. Some chargers also run by solar, which costs less than $0.10/KWH. They are doing so just because they are pretty much micro-monopoly in certain region, using discriminatory pricing to maximize profit. I see anti-trust issues.


I looked at the maps on both web sites and didn't find many chargers I would say were "in the middle of nowhere". Have you actually looked???

They also seem to have rather poor coverage of many areas. EVGO has no chargers anywhere along Rt 95 between Washington, DC and Jacksonville, FL... what, 700 miles? I guess some cars have very good batteries. Electrify America has chargers along that route, but one of the distances is around 230 miles. Do the EVs other than Tesla have that much range?


Consider the followig two examples:

Bakersfield, downtown, chargepoint, $0.05/min, $3 for 30 miles. Plenty of chargers in area.

Delano: Walmart, evGo, $0.15/min, $10 for 30 miles.
It's 30 miles north of Bakersfield, in the middle of nowhere.
No other chargers within 30 miles of Delano.

Downtown real estate is certainly more expensive in Bakersfield
than Delano. Both are running from Solar carports.

Not saying local government should regulate,
but should facilate/foster competitions.

Uh, one is Chargepoint and the other is EVGO. Obviously they each charge differently. I don't get how Delano is "the middle of nowhere". Whatever...

Both are 50KW fast chargers. If your vehicle support it, you can get 50KWH for just $3 from Bakersfield (run by a credit union). Delano is surrounded by a 30 miles radius of open spaces.


By "charge" I was referring to the fees. My point is you are drawing too much conclusion from very little data. Location is not the only difference between the two chargers. I expect you would find similar differences by brand or possibly you picked an anomaly. I don't know about these two brands, but many charger networks allow the host to determine the charging structure.

I don't get your point. Your original comment was about "many" of the EA and Evgo chargers. Then you list one. That's a long way from "many"... unless you count, 1, 2, many.

Rick C.

-+-- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209


Guest

Sun Feb 03, 2019 4:45 am   



On Saturday, February 2, 2019 at 5:25:41 PM UTC-8, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:
Quote:
On Saturday, February 2, 2019 at 8:05:59 PM UTC-5, edward....@gmail.com wrote:
On Friday, February 1, 2019 at 9:28:53 PM UTC-8, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com wrote:
On Saturday, February 2, 2019 at 12:07:29 AM UTC-5, edward....@gmail.com wrote:
On Friday, February 1, 2019 at 8:34:43 PM UTC-8, k...@notreal.com wrote:
On Thu, 31 Jan 2019 14:14:57 -0600, amdx <nojunk_at_knology.net> wrote:

On 1/31/2019 1:52 PM, bitrex wrote:
On 01/31/2019 11:50 AM, amdx wrote:
On 1/30/2019 6:31 PM, bitrex wrote:
On 01/30/2019 07:24 PM, edward.ming.lee_at_gmail.com wrote:

This is for charging 24KWH Nissan Leaf as stated in the article.

OK, third column should be in KW and Tesla rate should be below SF.
Table looks better in fix-pitch font.

   SOC    Amp     KW     MPH    CPM (Cents Per Mile)
   90      20      8      24     37                   $9.03 gasoline
   80      25     10      30     30
   70      30     12      36     25                   $6.05 gasoline
   60      40     16      48     19
   50      50     20      60     15                   $3.75 gasoline
   40      70     28      84     11
                                 10      San Francisco Electricity
                                  9      Tesla Supercharger
   30      90     36      98      8                   $2.00 gasoline
                                  5      San Mateo Solar Electricity
                                  4      Nevada Electricity
                                  3      Arizona Electricity



For the moment looks like the prices are oriented to gouge the
wealthy Tesla owners who definitely don't buy $50k, $80k, or $100k
vehicles to save money on gas. Yeah it kinda sucks for people like me
with $26k EVs but what ya gonna do most of us charge our modest packs
at home most of the time anyway.

It's hard to get too miffed about the quite wealthy having to pay
high rates for their toys or fight for legislation to protect 'em.
Dawww poor kiddos.

    Why hate on the rich? Just because they have done well doesn't mean

Also you have a weird definition of "hate" I never said I hated nobody.
I was suggesting that it's probably pointless to try to legislate that
businesses whose business model seems to implicitly be to cater to them
by charging by the minute rather than the kWh to do otherwise, that's
their model such as it is.

I must agree that they should charge by the kWh, I would tolerate a
time charge for those hogging the charger space more time than others
i.e. the slow chargers, but it seems of any group, government aught to
encourage electric and not punish the slow chargers.

That depends on the cost structure of the station, doesn't it? If the
land or improvements dominate the cost, I'd think a timed charge is
quite reasonable. If electricity dominates, charge by the kWh.
Really, just charge what the market will bear.

For many of the EvGo/ElectrifyAmerica installations, they are in the middle of nowhere, where land is cheap. Some chargers also run by solar, which costs less than $0.10/KWH. They are doing so just because they are pretty much micro-monopoly in certain region, using discriminatory pricing to maximize profit. I see anti-trust issues.


I looked at the maps on both web sites and didn't find many chargers I would say were "in the middle of nowhere". Have you actually looked???

They also seem to have rather poor coverage of many areas. EVGO has no chargers anywhere along Rt 95 between Washington, DC and Jacksonville, FL... what, 700 miles? I guess some cars have very good batteries. Electrify America has chargers along that route, but one of the distances is around 230 miles. Do the EVs other than Tesla have that much range?


Consider the followig two examples:

Bakersfield, downtown, chargepoint, $0.05/min, $3 for 30 miles. Plenty of chargers in area.

Delano: Walmart, evGo, $0.15/min, $10 for 30 miles.
It's 30 miles north of Bakersfield, in the middle of nowhere.
No other chargers within 30 miles of Delano.

Downtown real estate is certainly more expensive in Bakersfield
than Delano. Both are running from Solar carports.

Not saying local government should regulate,
but should facilate/foster competitions.

Uh, one is Chargepoint and the other is EVGO. Obviously they each charge differently. I don't get how Delano is "the middle of nowhere". Whatever....


Both are 50KW fast chargers. If your vehicle support it, you can get 50KWH for just $3 from Bakersfield (run by a credit union). Delano is surrounded by a 30 miles radius of open spaces.

bitrex
Guest

Sun Feb 03, 2019 4:45 am   



On 02/02/2019 12:10 PM, Joseph Gwinn wrote:

Quote:
Somerville MA is like a spot-on caricature of all Conservative
stereotypes about bohemian "urban liberal elites", "metrosexuals",
manbuns, everyone's got a trust fund and rides a fixed gear bicycle and
sports at least five tattoos.

It's not true everywhere, but they're mostly all true there.

For those who don¬īt live in Massachusetts, there is a little bit of local
detail that¬īs useful to know:

Somerville borders on Cambridge, Mass, and is now a yuppie haven. The
original blue-collar population of Somerville was priced out long ago, when
Cambridge ran out of housing space.

Joe Gwinn


Right, there are kids in their 20s and 30s paying $1k a month to rent a
room there, not even a studio apartment, a single room in a 4 bedroom
third-floor apartment where you have to share kitchen and living areas
with three other people.

It's near Manhattan-level pricing at this point paying thousands a month
to rent a few hundred square feet of living area and subletting bay
windows and closet space.

I saw one ad where someone was subletting an "apartment" for $700/month
it wasn't even an apartment it was like half of a living room divided
with a curtain. You don't even get a real door to your room for that
price you just get a curtain!

Boston has its nice aspects but it's hard to see paying 80% of Manhattan
prices for 20% of Manhattan amenities. You can do a lot better renting
just 20 minutes further north or south but then you're living someplace
terribly unfashionable/blue collar and non-hip and have to deal with the
highway traffic

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