EDAboard.com | EDAboard.de | EDAboard.co.uk | WTWH Media

EV charging price

Ask a question - edaboard.com

elektroda.net NewsGroups Forum Index - Electronics Design - EV charging price

Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next

bitrex
Guest

Fri Feb 01, 2019 4:45 am   



On 01/31/2019 07:59 PM, amdx wrote:
Quote:
On 1/31/2019 8:38 AM, Tom Del Rosso wrote:
bitrex wrote:
On 01/31/2019 02:48 AM, bitrex wrote:
On 01/31/2019 02:23 AM, Tom Del Rosso wrote:
bitrex wrote:

Americans don't pay the true costs of driving, that's why gas
prices are so low as compared to Europe and the infrastructure is
falling apart. When all the roads are privately-owned toll roads
then the market will be free and we can make apples-to-apples
comparisons

Is the "true" cost like "true" Communism?


It's not my impression that most Americans are opposed to socialism,
National Socialism was a kind of socialism too


The "joke" here is that America is likely destined for some form of
fascism, whether it will be of a left or right-wing variety who can
say but that's mostly window-dressing.

The younger they are the more likely they are to embrace socialism and
vote for Bernie.

 I'm doing my best to tell college students, that they will be the high
earners in society, they will be part of the 50% that actually pay
taxes. The more programs they vote for now, will just take more of their
paycheck when they start earning.
 None of the free programs are free, YOU the college educated will
being paying for them.

                          Mikek


If you go to college to prep to work in finance/pre-med/law/software
development or get an MBA, probably. And law and software development
are no longer as sure thing as they used to be.

As for anyone else it's really anyone's guess at this point. Becoming a
"high earner" in many white-collar depends at least as much on who you
know and what asses you have around you to kiss as it does on your
educational credentials.

A college degree is a _minimum_ requirement for the majority of
entry-level white-collar jobs pushing papers for 38 grand a year. If you
want to be a "high earner" in your 20s or 30s drive a long haul truck
it's a much surer bet than a degree in "communications" or something but
you also have to get used to paying $250 an hour for sex.

bitrex
Guest

Fri Feb 01, 2019 4:45 am   



On 01/31/2019 08:55 PM, bill.sloman_at_ieee.org wrote:

Quote:
I'm doing my best to tell college students, that they will be the high
earners in society, they will be part of the 50% that actually pay
taxes. The more programs they vote for now, will just take more of their
paycheck when they start earning.
None of the free programs are free, YOU the college educated will
being paying for them.

The US is overdue for the kind of tax reform which will extract enough from the top 1% of the income distribution to reduce the tax load on the the rest of the population that actually pays taxes.

Properly constructed "free" programs pay off in ways that aren't immediately financially obvious.

The US is at position 19 of the CIA's league table of national average incomes per head

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2004rank.html

Most of the leading countries are too small to take seriously, but Ireland (10th), Norway (11th) and Switzerland (18th). The Netherlands - at 23rd - appears to lag, but it's got universal health care so their $53,600 per head probably leaves them better off than the US $59,500 per head.

The Dutch education system is a whole lot more equal opportunity that it's US equivalent, and the Dutch have appreciably more intergenerational social mobility that the US (as do pretty much all northern European countries - the UK lags the rest, but not as much as the US does).

http://www.verisi.com/resources/prosperity-upward-mobility.htm


amdx seems like a chode of the old school variety, he tells young men to
do exactly the same thing young men were doing 50 years ago, the usual
Con...servative lines "get a degree in whatever, you'll get hired
immediately at great pay, work hard, save money, you'll get to marry a
beautiful woman of your choice who will appreciate you for all that
stuff, everything will easily fall into place"

....and in 2019 many young men are going to get fucked hard for taking
these platitudes and tired right-wing talking points at face value.


Guest

Fri Feb 01, 2019 4:45 am   



On Thursday, January 31, 2019 at 7:01:02 PM UTC-8, bitrex wrote:
Quote:
On 01/31/2019 08:05 PM, amdx wrote:

I mean if you go back and read my original comment in the thread I
think legislation to manage charging port costs is unnecessary the
market can probably figure this one out just fine. It's not a monopoly
situation there are always other options, including what I did which
was buy a car that's half-and-half.

That particular company seems to have made a business decision to
implicitly shut people with slower-charging, older vehicles out, IMO
basically because it's San Francisco and catering to the wealthy makes
sense there. Okay that sucks but most people have power lines coming
into their house and EVGo doesn't run the utility company, the utility
company will be glad to sell you whatever power you can get into your
car via whatever legal means you do it.

I think if they try that model everywhere or stick with it too long
they'll go out of business. I see the EVGo branded chargers around
here that seem to be running the same kind of rates nobody uses them
so very hard to see how they're turning a profit on that investment.
The more subsidy-friendly MA state or local governments may have given
them an initial kickback to install 'em but the taxpayers are not
generous forever even here.

Didn't read enough to know what else the company does, but the stock
price tripled since Jan 2017.  NRG

Ah, they're a major utility company doing this as a hobby. The situation
makes somewhat more sense now.


Not anymore, i guess.

https://www.autoblog.com/2016/06/26/nrg-sells-evgo-fast-charge-network/

bitrex
Guest

Fri Feb 01, 2019 4:45 am   



On 01/31/2019 10:15 PM, bitrex wrote:

Quote:
Most of the leading countries are too small to take seriously, but
Ireland (10th), Norway (11th) and Switzerland (18th). The Netherlands
- at 23rd - appears to lag, but it's got universal health care so
their $53,600 per head probably leaves them better off than the US
$59,500 per head.

The Dutch education system is a whole lot more equal opportunity that
it's US equivalent, and the Dutch have appreciably more
intergenerational social mobility that the US (as do pretty much all
northern European countries - the UK lags the rest, but not as much as
the US does).

http://www.verisi.com/resources/prosperity-upward-mobility.htm


amdx seems like a chode of the old school variety, he tells young men to
do exactly the same thing young men were doing 50 years ago, the usual
Con...servative lines "get a degree in whatever, you'll get hired
immediately at great pay, work hard, save money, you'll get to marry a
beautiful woman of your choice who will appreciate you for all that
stuff, everything will easily fall into place"

...and in 2019 many young men are going to get fucked hard for taking
these platitudes and tired right-wing talking points at face value.


Sadly some of these men turn into "alt-right" fanatics when they find
that all of that has failed them and sometimes open fire on women and
innocents in their frustration instead of more rational targets.

bitrex
Guest

Fri Feb 01, 2019 4:45 am   



On 01/31/2019 10:21 PM, edward.ming.lee_at_gmail.com wrote:
Quote:
On Thursday, January 31, 2019 at 7:01:02 PM UTC-8, bitrex wrote:
On 01/31/2019 08:05 PM, amdx wrote:

I mean if you go back and read my original comment in the thread I
think legislation to manage charging port costs is unnecessary the
market can probably figure this one out just fine. It's not a monopoly
situation there are always other options, including what I did which
was buy a car that's half-and-half.

That particular company seems to have made a business decision to
implicitly shut people with slower-charging, older vehicles out, IMO
basically because it's San Francisco and catering to the wealthy makes
sense there. Okay that sucks but most people have power lines coming
into their house and EVGo doesn't run the utility company, the utility
company will be glad to sell you whatever power you can get into your
car via whatever legal means you do it.

I think if they try that model everywhere or stick with it too long
they'll go out of business. I see the EVGo branded chargers around
here that seem to be running the same kind of rates nobody uses them
so very hard to see how they're turning a profit on that investment.
The more subsidy-friendly MA state or local governments may have given
them an initial kickback to install 'em but the taxpayers are not
generous forever even here.

Didn't read enough to know what else the company does, but the stock
price tripled since Jan 2017.  NRG

Ah, they're a major utility company doing this as a hobby. The situation
makes somewhat more sense now.

Not anymore, i guess.

https://www.autoblog.com/2016/06/26/nrg-sells-evgo-fast-charge-network/


I just looked at the EVGo locations in eastern MA on their map their
aren't that many, and only 10 cars plugged in right now statewide so
doesn't seem like a hugely profitable area for them but again if their
upkeep is low enough every bit helps I guess.

The rates here are 0.35 cent/min here for chademo and combo up to 50kW
and Level 2 up to 7.2kW is free.

bitrex
Guest

Fri Feb 01, 2019 4:45 am   



On 01/31/2019 08:05 PM, amdx wrote:

Quote:
I mean if you go back and read my original comment in the thread I
think legislation to manage charging port costs is unnecessary the
market can probably figure this one out just fine. It's not a monopoly
situation there are always other options, including what I did which
was buy a car that's half-and-half.

That particular company seems to have made a business decision to
implicitly shut people with slower-charging, older vehicles out, IMO
basically because it's San Francisco and catering to the wealthy makes
sense there. Okay that sucks but most people have power lines coming
into their house and EVGo doesn't run the utility company, the utility
company will be glad to sell you whatever power you can get into your
car via whatever legal means you do it.

I think if they try that model everywhere or stick with it too long
they'll go out of business. I see the EVGo branded chargers around
here that seem to be running the same kind of rates nobody uses them
so very hard to see how they're turning a profit on that investment.
The more subsidy-friendly MA state or local governments may have given
them an initial kickback to install 'em but the taxpayers are not
generous forever even here.

Didn't read enough to know what else the company does, but the stock
price tripled since Jan 2017.  NRG


Ah, they're a major utility company doing this as a hobby. The situation
makes somewhat more sense now.

bitrex
Guest

Fri Feb 01, 2019 5:45 am   



On 01/31/2019 10:26 PM, gnuarm.deletethisbit_at_gmail.com wrote:
Quote:
On Thursday, January 31, 2019 at 9:37:28 PM UTC-5, Winfield Hill wrote:
Alan Folmsbee wrote...

Gasoline has 122 Megajoules per gallon as a chemical.
A Kilowatt hour is 3.6 Megajoules .. Therefore, using
an electricity cost of $0.15 per kilowatt hour,

Your numbers are dead wrong, way off. Actual measurement
with my Prius Prime plug-in shows that gas at $2.25 / gal
is about equivalent to electricity at $0.25 / kWh, with
identical miles traveled. Electricity wins on cost, but
not by much at today's prices. It wins bigger on CO2.

But oops, when I run the heater on really cold days, the
electric / gas equivalency goes out the window, and it's
hard say who is winning. I would imagine gas, but the
numbers seem not to show that. Either way, I put on my
coat and hope to get to work or home, without running
the heater, or just running it for a few minutes. Brrr!

So far I've gone 4.5 months and 2500 miles, with only one
gas fillup and about 1/3 of a tank still available. Yes,
it's a bit dumb to make a big deal over a few $$ worth of
gas, but I love the quiet powerful electric motors, and
it easily becomes an obsession to keep the gas engine off.

Wow! $0.25 a kWh is pretty pricey. I'm getting my juice at about a third of that. But then I use enough to make it worthwhile to use TOU billing.

I'll say that if your heater impacts your mileage more than 15%, you either have a very efficient car or a very horrible heater. The heater in my model X is 5 kW max. At 60 mph the power the car uses averages 20 kW. For the heater to impact that 15% it would need to run 2/3 of the time. I think if my toes were warmed by a 3 kW heater they would be quite toasty indeed.


Rick C.

---+ Get 6 months of free supercharging
---+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209


the frustrating thing about the Volt's electric heater is that even
though it also draws about 5kW running full blast on a cold day it still
seems to take nearly as long for the hot air to come up as it would in
an ICE car with a heat exchanger. but it's an electric heater! my 1kW
electric space heater starts blowing hot air in about 3 seconds not sure
what the hold up is.

Best guess is maybe they bring it up slowly to save thermal cycling
stress and premature failure

Winfield Hill
Guest

Fri Feb 01, 2019 7:45 pm   



bitrex wrote...
Quote:

On 01/31/2019 10:26 PM, gnuarm.deletethisbit_at_gmail.com wrote:
On Thursday, January 31, 2019 at 9:37:28 PM UTC-5, Winfield Hill wrote:
Alan Folmsbee wrote...

Gasoline has 122 Megajoules per gallon as a chemical.
A Kilowatt hour is 3.6 Megajoules .. Therefore, using
an electricity cost of $0.15 per kilowatt hour,

Your numbers are dead wrong, way off. Actual measurement
with my Prius Prime plug-in shows that gas at $2.25 / gal
is about equivalent to electricity at $0.25 / kWh, with
identical miles traveled. Electricity wins on cost, but
not by much at today's prices. It wins bigger on CO2.

But oops, when I run the heater on really cold days, the
electric / gas equivalency goes out the window, and it's
hard say who is winning. I would imagine gas, but the
numbers seem not to show that. Either way, I put on my
coat and hope to get to work or home, without running
the heater, or just running it for a few minutes. Brrr!

So far I've gone 4.5 months and 2500 miles, with only one
gas fillup and about 1/3 of a tank still available. Yes,
it's a bit dumb to make a big deal over a few $$ worth of
gas, but I love the quiet powerful electric motors, and
it easily becomes an obsession to keep the gas engine off.

Wow! $0.25 a kWh is pretty pricey. I'm getting my juice at about a third of
that. But then I use enough to make it worthwhile to use TOU billing.

I'll say that if your heater impacts your mileage more than 15%, you either have
a very efficient car or a very horrible heater. The heater in my model X is 5
kW max. At 60 mph the power the car uses averages 20 kW. For the heater to
impact that 15% it would need to run 2/3 of the time. I think if my toes were
warmed by a 3 kW heater they would be quite toasty indeed.


Rick C.

---+ Get 6 months of free supercharging
---+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209


the frustrating thing about the Volt's electric heater is that even
though it also draws about 5kW running full blast on a cold day it still
seems to take nearly as long for the hot air to come up as it would in
an ICE car with a heat exchanger. but it's an electric heater! my 1kW
electric space heater starts blowing hot air in about 3 seconds not sure
what the hold up is.

Best guess is maybe they bring it up slowly to save thermal cycling
stress and premature failure


The Prius Prime heater seems really wimpy, compared to my
former Prius heater. Before it was a heating coil, now
the A/C is a heat pump. Well, OK, the other problem is
the damn cold! -2 deg two nights ago and +4 last night.


--
Thanks,
- Win

John Larkin
Guest

Fri Feb 01, 2019 11:45 pm   



On Wed, 30 Jan 2019 14:53:40 -0800 (PST), edward.ming.lee_at_gmail.com
wrote:

Quote:
We are writing a proposal for a local government trying to
facilitate fair pricing of charging, probably with a
ChargePoint fast charger. ChargePoint allows them to set
pricing. By the way, Evgo charge $0.15/min (member) and
$0.20/min (non-member). Some charge as much as $0.39/min.
That's legal highway robbery.

Evgo's pricing structure is unfair to older vehicles. Especially
for older vehicles like (around 300,000) Leaf, cost equivalence
is close to $9/gal gasoline when charging around 70% to 90%
State Of Charge (SOC).

Even for reduced membership cost of 15 cents per minute:

SOC Amp KwHr MPH CPM (Cents Per Mile)
90 20 8 24 37 $9.03 gasoline
80 25 10 30 30
70 30 12 36 25 $6.05 gasoline
60 40 16 48 19
50 50 20 60 15 $3.75 gasoline
40 70 28 84 11 Tesla Supercharger
10 San Francisco Electricity
30 90 36 98 8 $2.00 gasoline
5 San Mateo Solar Electricity
4 Nevada Electricity
3 Arizona Electricity

We propose a charging fee of 5 cents per minute and 15 cents per
KiloWattHours. This will bring the cost equivalence close to $2/gal
to $3/gal.

SOC Amp KWH MPH $/gal
90 20 8 24 $3.00
80 25 10 30 $3.00
70 30 12 36 $2.00
60 40 16 48 $2.00
50 50 20 60 $2.00
40 70 28 84 $3.00
30 90 36 98 $4.00

What do you think?


This solves the range anxiety problem:


https://sparkcharge.io/



--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
picosecond timing precision measurement

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com

bitrex
Guest

Sat Feb 02, 2019 3:45 am   



On 02/01/2019 05:05 PM, John Larkin wrote:
Quote:
On Wed, 30 Jan 2019 14:53:40 -0800 (PST), edward.ming.lee_at_gmail.com
wrote:

We are writing a proposal for a local government trying to
facilitate fair pricing of charging, probably with a
ChargePoint fast charger. ChargePoint allows them to set
pricing. By the way, Evgo charge $0.15/min (member) and
$0.20/min (non-member). Some charge as much as $0.39/min.
That's legal highway robbery.

Evgo's pricing structure is unfair to older vehicles. Especially
for older vehicles like (around 300,000) Leaf, cost equivalence
is close to $9/gal gasoline when charging around 70% to 90%
State Of Charge (SOC).

Even for reduced membership cost of 15 cents per minute:

SOC Amp KwHr MPH CPM (Cents Per Mile)
90 20 8 24 37 $9.03 gasoline
80 25 10 30 30
70 30 12 36 25 $6.05 gasoline
60 40 16 48 19
50 50 20 60 15 $3.75 gasoline
40 70 28 84 11 Tesla Supercharger
10 San Francisco Electricity
30 90 36 98 8 $2.00 gasoline
5 San Mateo Solar Electricity
4 Nevada Electricity
3 Arizona Electricity

We propose a charging fee of 5 cents per minute and 15 cents per
KiloWattHours. This will bring the cost equivalence close to $2/gal
to $3/gal.

SOC Amp KWH MPH $/gal
90 20 8 24 $3.00
80 25 10 30 $3.00
70 30 12 36 $2.00
60 40 16 48 $2.00
50 50 20 60 $2.00
40 70 28 84 $3.00
30 90 36 98 $4.00

What do you think?


This solves the range anxiety problem:


https://sparkcharge.io/




Somerville MA is like a spot-on caricature of all Conservative
stereotypes about bohemian "urban liberal elites", "metrosexuals",
manbuns, everyone's got a trust fund and rides a fixed gear bicycle and
sports at least five tattoos.

It's not true everywhere, but they're mostly all true there.


Guest

Sat Feb 02, 2019 5:45 am   



On Thu, 31 Jan 2019 14:14:57 -0600, amdx <nojunk_at_knology.net> wrote:

Quote:
On 1/31/2019 1:52 PM, bitrex wrote:
On 01/31/2019 11:50 AM, amdx wrote:
On 1/30/2019 6:31 PM, bitrex wrote:
On 01/30/2019 07:24 PM, edward.ming.lee_at_gmail.com wrote:

This is for charging 24KWH Nissan Leaf as stated in the article.

OK, third column should be in KW and Tesla rate should be below SF.
Table looks better in fix-pitch font.

SOC Amp KW MPH CPM (Cents Per Mile)
90 20 8 24 37 $9.03 gasoline
80 25 10 30 30
70 30 12 36 25 $6.05 gasoline
60 40 16 48 19
50 50 20 60 15 $3.75 gasoline
40 70 28 84 11
10 San Francisco Electricity
9 Tesla Supercharger
30 90 36 98 8 $2.00 gasoline
5 San Mateo Solar Electricity
4 Nevada Electricity
3 Arizona Electricity



For the moment looks like the prices are oriented to gouge the
wealthy Tesla owners who definitely don't buy $50k, $80k, or $100k
vehicles to save money on gas. Yeah it kinda sucks for people like me
with $26k EVs but what ya gonna do most of us charge our modest packs
at home most of the time anyway.

It's hard to get too miffed about the quite wealthy having to pay
high rates for their toys or fight for legislation to protect 'em.
Dawww poor kiddos.

Why hate on the rich? Just because they have done well doesn't mean

Also you have a weird definition of "hate" I never said I hated nobody.
I was suggesting that it's probably pointless to try to legislate that
businesses whose business model seems to implicitly be to cater to them
by charging by the minute rather than the kWh to do otherwise, that's
their model such as it is.

I must agree that they should charge by the kWh, I would tolerate a
time charge for those hogging the charger space more time than others
i.e. the slow chargers, but it seems of any group, government aught to
encourage electric and not punish the slow chargers.


That depends on the cost structure of the station, doesn't it? If the
land or improvements dominate the cost, I'd think a timed charge is
quite reasonable. If electricity dominates, charge by the kWh.
Really, just charge what the market will bear.
Quote:

Clearly your form of speech is hating on the rich.


Lefties hate everyone. Just watch them eat their own when they don't
toe the line perfectly.

Quote:
It's hard to get too miffed about the quite wealthy having to pay
high rates for their toys or fight for legislation to protect 'em.
. Dawww poor kiddos.
Now, I'll agree that you might not actually hate the rich, but your
comment certainly is not complimentary to rich people.


No, he hates them.
Quote:

I know a number of "quite wealthy" people and you don't talk like one of 'em.

I still want to know what you think is quite wealthy.
If you answer, I'll tell you why I ask.

No, I don't talk like Thurston Howell the 3rd, but apparently I have an
accent, I'm in N. Florida and it's surprising how many people have
guessed correctly that I'm from Michigan from my voice. I'm always quick
to tell them they have the accent!

Mikek



Guest

Sat Feb 02, 2019 6:45 am   



On Saturday, February 2, 2019 at 12:07:29 AM UTC-5, edward....@gmail.com wrote:
Quote:
On Friday, February 1, 2019 at 8:34:43 PM UTC-8, k...@notreal.com wrote:
On Thu, 31 Jan 2019 14:14:57 -0600, amdx <nojunk_at_knology.net> wrote:

On 1/31/2019 1:52 PM, bitrex wrote:
On 01/31/2019 11:50 AM, amdx wrote:
On 1/30/2019 6:31 PM, bitrex wrote:
On 01/30/2019 07:24 PM, edward.ming.lee_at_gmail.com wrote:

This is for charging 24KWH Nissan Leaf as stated in the article.

OK, third column should be in KW and Tesla rate should be below SF.
Table looks better in fix-pitch font.

   SOC    Amp     KW     MPH    CPM (Cents Per Mile)
   90      20      8      24     37                   $9.03 gasoline
   80      25     10      30     30
   70      30     12      36     25                   $6.05 gasoline
   60      40     16      48     19
   50      50     20      60     15                   $3.75 gasoline
   40      70     28      84     11
                                 10      San Francisco Electricity
                                  9      Tesla Supercharger
   30      90     36      98      8                   $2.00 gasoline
                                  5      San Mateo Solar Electricity
                                  4      Nevada Electricity
                                  3      Arizona Electricity



For the moment looks like the prices are oriented to gouge the
wealthy Tesla owners who definitely don't buy $50k, $80k, or $100k
vehicles to save money on gas. Yeah it kinda sucks for people like me
with $26k EVs but what ya gonna do most of us charge our modest packs
at home most of the time anyway.

It's hard to get too miffed about the quite wealthy having to pay
high rates for their toys or fight for legislation to protect 'em.
Dawww poor kiddos.

    Why hate on the rich? Just because they have done well doesn't mean

Also you have a weird definition of "hate" I never said I hated nobody.
I was suggesting that it's probably pointless to try to legislate that
businesses whose business model seems to implicitly be to cater to them
by charging by the minute rather than the kWh to do otherwise, that's
their model such as it is.

I must agree that they should charge by the kWh, I would tolerate a
time charge for those hogging the charger space more time than others
i.e. the slow chargers, but it seems of any group, government aught to
encourage electric and not punish the slow chargers.

That depends on the cost structure of the station, doesn't it? If the
land or improvements dominate the cost, I'd think a timed charge is
quite reasonable. If electricity dominates, charge by the kWh.
Really, just charge what the market will bear.

For many of the EvGo/ElectrifyAmerica installations, they are in the middle of nowhere, where land is cheap. Some chargers also run by solar, which costs less than $0.10/KWH. They are doing so just because they are pretty much micro-monopoly in certain region, using discriminatory pricing to maximize profit. I see anti-trust issues.


I looked at the maps on both web sites and didn't find many chargers I would say were "in the middle of nowhere". Have you actually looked???

They also seem to have rather poor coverage of many areas. EVGO has no chargers anywhere along Rt 95 between Washington, DC and Jacksonville, FL... what, 700 miles? I guess some cars have very good batteries. Electrify America has chargers along that route, but one of the distances is around 230 miles. Do the EVs other than Tesla have that much range?


Rick C.

--+- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

amdx
Guest

Sat Feb 02, 2019 6:45 am   



On 1/31/2019 9:15 PM, bitrex wrote:
Quote:
On 01/31/2019 08:55 PM, bill.sloman_at_ieee.org wrote:

   I'm doing my best to tell college students, that they will be the
high
earners in society, they will be part of the 50% that actually pay
taxes. The more programs they vote for now, will just take more of their
paycheck when they start earning.
   None of the free programs are free, YOU the college educated will
being paying for them.

The US is overdue for the kind of tax reform which will extract enough
from the top 1% of the income distribution to reduce the tax load on
the the rest of the population that actually pays taxes.

Properly constructed "free" programs pay off in ways that aren't
immediately financially obvious.

The US is at position 19 of the CIA's league table of national average
incomes per head

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2004rank.html


Most of the leading countries are too small to take seriously, but
Ireland (10th), Norway (11th) and Switzerland (18th). The Netherlands
- at 23rd - appears to lag, but it's got universal health care so
their $53,600 per head probably leaves them better off than the US
$59,500 per head.

The Dutch education system is a whole lot more equal opportunity that
it's US equivalent, and the Dutch have appreciably more
intergenerational social mobility that the US (as do pretty much all
northern European countries - the UK lags the rest, but not as much as
the US does).

http://www.verisi.com/resources/prosperity-upward-mobility.htm


amdx seems like a chode of the old school variety, he tells young men to
do exactly the same thing young men were doing 50 years ago, the usual
Con...servative lines "get a degree in whatever, you'll get hired
immediately at great pay, work hard, save money, you'll get to marry a
beautiful woman of your choice who will appreciate you for all that
stuff, everything will easily fall into place"

...and in 2019 many young men are going to get fucked hard for taking
these platitudes and tired right-wing talking points at face value.


I think the stats still say that those with a college degree earn more
than those without. But, I agree there are plenty of $50,000 dollar a
year jobs that don't require a degree. I don't have any type of degree
myself. I also thought that I was a lower middle class earner most of my
life, although in my later life I've done some calculations and found my
household income was actually a little above the US. household mean.
The household income mean is around $57,000, I have an inflation
adjusted income of around $71,000. (i used my SS statement to see my
long term earnings, then adjusted for inflation.)
So, what I said was the college educated will pay taxes, that will
make them part of the 50% that pay taxes in the US. Liberal weenies will
always say, Oh but the lower income people pay SS taxes, yes, and they
get the most back from those SS taxes also. I consider SS a retirement
program and disability program. Not a tax to run the country.
I will say both of my kids are in college and I expect and hope they
both will have higher earning because of their degrees.
I expect one to have a degree in chemical engineering and the other
will be a dentist. She has already found a handsome husband!
When you start with name calling, you've already conceded you have
lost the point.
Mikek


Guest

Sat Feb 02, 2019 6:45 am   



On Friday, February 1, 2019 at 2:09:04 PM UTC+11, bitrex wrote:
Quote:
On 01/31/2019 07:59 PM, amdx wrote:
On 1/31/2019 8:38 AM, Tom Del Rosso wrote:
bitrex wrote:
On 01/31/2019 02:48 AM, bitrex wrote:
On 01/31/2019 02:23 AM, Tom Del Rosso wrote:
bitrex wrote:

Americans don't pay the true costs of driving, that's why gas
prices are so low as compared to Europe and the infrastructure is
falling apart. When all the roads are privately-owned toll roads
then the market will be free and we can make apples-to-apples
comparisons

Is the "true" cost like "true" Communism?


It's not my impression that most Americans are opposed to socialism,
National Socialism was a kind of socialism too


The "joke" here is that America is likely destined for some form of
fascism, whether it will be of a left or right-wing variety who can
say but that's mostly window-dressing.

The younger they are the more likely they are to embrace socialism and
vote for Bernie.

 I'm doing my best to tell college students, that they will be the high
earners in society, they will be part of the 50% that actually pay
taxes. The more programs they vote for now, will just take more of their
paycheck when they start earning.
 None of the free programs are free, YOU the college educated will
being paying for them.

                          Mikek


If you go to college to prep to work in finance/pre-med/law/software
development or get an MBA, probably. And law and software development
are no longer as sure thing as they used to be.

As for anyone else it's really anyone's guess at this point. Becoming a
"high earner" in many white-collar depends at least as much on who you
know and what asses you have around you to kiss as it does on your
educational credentials.


There's an element of actual talent for the particular job involved. Getting a college degree does train you in particular talents required for quite a few jobs, or at least demonstrates that you have mastered sufficiently closely related skills, but there are also quite a few other skills called for in most jobs, and nobody has put in the effort to quantify them.

Knowing people and kissing ass may get you into a job, but staying in it and doing well mostly involves doing it right, and if you didn't grow up an closely related business you've got no idea if you have the skills required to do it right.

Moving from job to job early in your career is probably a good way of finding out where the skills you do have can be sold for the highest price.

Quote:
A college degree is a _minimum_ requirement for the majority of
entry-level white-collar jobs pushing papers for 38 grand a year. If you
want to be a "high earner" in your 20s or 30s drive a long haul truck
it's a much surer bet than a degree in "communications" or something but
you also have to get used to paying $250 an hour for sex.


There are jobs - junior doctors come to mind - where even having the hour to spend on sex (even at $250 per hour) is an unattainable luxury.

One of Ian Jefferies books - on the life of a houseman in an English hospital - has a scene in which the unfortunate hero goes to sleep in his girlfriend's arms before they can get around to having sex, or even a spot of foreplay ...

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney


Guest

Sat Feb 02, 2019 6:45 am   



On Friday, February 1, 2019 at 8:34:43 PM UTC-8, k...@notreal.com wrote:
Quote:
On Thu, 31 Jan 2019 14:14:57 -0600, amdx <nojunk_at_knology.net> wrote:

On 1/31/2019 1:52 PM, bitrex wrote:
On 01/31/2019 11:50 AM, amdx wrote:
On 1/30/2019 6:31 PM, bitrex wrote:
On 01/30/2019 07:24 PM, edward.ming.lee_at_gmail.com wrote:

This is for charging 24KWH Nissan Leaf as stated in the article.

OK, third column should be in KW and Tesla rate should be below SF.
Table looks better in fix-pitch font.

   SOC    Amp     KW     MPH    CPM (Cents Per Mile)
   90      20      8      24     37                   $9.03 gasoline
   80      25     10      30     30
   70      30     12      36     25                   $6.05 gasoline
   60      40     16      48     19
   50      50     20      60     15                   $3.75 gasoline
   40      70     28      84     11
                                 10      San Francisco Electricity
                                  9      Tesla Supercharger
   30      90     36      98      8                   $2.00 gasoline
                                  5      San Mateo Solar Electricity
                                  4      Nevada Electricity
                                  3      Arizona Electricity



For the moment looks like the prices are oriented to gouge the
wealthy Tesla owners who definitely don't buy $50k, $80k, or $100k
vehicles to save money on gas. Yeah it kinda sucks for people like me
with $26k EVs but what ya gonna do most of us charge our modest packs
at home most of the time anyway.

It's hard to get too miffed about the quite wealthy having to pay
high rates for their toys or fight for legislation to protect 'em.
Dawww poor kiddos.

    Why hate on the rich? Just because they have done well doesn't mean

Also you have a weird definition of "hate" I never said I hated nobody.
I was suggesting that it's probably pointless to try to legislate that
businesses whose business model seems to implicitly be to cater to them
by charging by the minute rather than the kWh to do otherwise, that's
their model such as it is.

I must agree that they should charge by the kWh, I would tolerate a
time charge for those hogging the charger space more time than others
i.e. the slow chargers, but it seems of any group, government aught to
encourage electric and not punish the slow chargers.

That depends on the cost structure of the station, doesn't it? If the
land or improvements dominate the cost, I'd think a timed charge is
quite reasonable. If electricity dominates, charge by the kWh.
Really, just charge what the market will bear.


For many of the EvGo/ElectrifyAmerica installations, they are in the middle of nowhere, where land is cheap. Some chargers also run by solar, which costs less than $0.10/KWH. They are doing so just because they are pretty much micro-monopoly in certain region, using discriminatory pricing to maximize profit. I see anti-trust issues.

Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next

elektroda.net NewsGroups Forum Index - Electronics Design - EV charging price

Ask a question - edaboard.com

Arabic version Bulgarian version Catalan version Czech version Danish version German version Greek version English version Spanish version Finnish version French version Hindi version Croatian version Indonesian version Italian version Hebrew version Japanese version Korean version Lithuanian version Latvian version Dutch version Norwegian version Polish version Portuguese version Romanian version Russian version Slovak version Slovenian version Serbian version Swedish version Tagalog version Ukrainian version Vietnamese version Chinese version Turkish version
EDAboard.com map