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Engine run time to keep battery charged

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arlen holder
Guest

Wed Feb 06, 2019 1:45 am   



On Tue, 5 Feb 2019 04:42:57 -0800 (PST), John-Del wrote:

> You don't have a clue how to answer that question.

Hi John-Del,

You prove with every post, you are an idiot (you prove it yourself).

You say I don't have a clue, & yet, at least I _comprehended_ the question!
o Not only did you (and your child buddies) not _comprehend_ the question
o All you _can_ do, is worthless chitchat (ala' the child you prove to be)

*I used to think people like you were _only_ incredibly stupid*
o But now I realize it's worse - because your brain can't comprehend facts.

*I used to think people like you were simply incessantly pulling our leg*
o But now I think it's far worse - since you appear to _believe_ what you write

Since you _are_ clearly stupid, & you prove to _remain_ ignorant...
o The only viable conclusion is you own the left-side brain of Dunning Kruger
<https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DlG0kwCXoAYC-75.jpg>

Since your brain is wired as that of the lemon-juice bank robber, John-Del,
o There is no possibly way for an adult to communicate with you.

You will _still_ believe, even in the complete absence of evidence, that
lemon juice works to hide your face from the bank surveillance cameras.

While all people are on the DK scale when it comes to cognitive skills
assessment, you, John-Del, appear to be far to the left of Mount Stupid:
<https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DrQGXxKXcAAFaVt.jpg>

I don't even need to prove this fact; you prove it yourself - in every post.
o Just watch.

NOTE: To save _others_ from your drivel, John-Del, I will not respond to
your unfathomably childish posts any further in this thread.

Fox's Mercantile
Guest

Wed Feb 06, 2019 2:45 am   



On 2/5/19 6:01 PM, arlen holder wrote:
His usual incoherent drivel.

Like I said,
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XfQidTbUjk>


--
"I am a river to my people."
Jeff-1.0
WA6FWi
http:foxsmercantile.com

John-Del
Guest

Wed Feb 06, 2019 4:45 am   



On Tuesday, February 5, 2019 at 7:01:47 PM UTC-5, arlen holder wrote:
>>pure, unadulterated bullshit (with a metric shitload of flies..)

LOL! If you think a car can maintain it's battery with a 72 second run, you need more help than the folks here can possibly provide for you. I suggest you go away and troll another group - you know, the type of group that might fall for your crap. I suggest a moon landing hoax site. You should be a big hit there as those folks love equations that prove nothing and mean nothing. You can start with Van Allen radiation calculations. All you've done here is drop your pants to show the group your clueless ass. The secret to bullshitting is to bullshit a group that knows *less* than you do, not more than you do.

You don't have the slightest idea what's involved in battery charging and your Google searching let you down in a big way. Google was not your friend, so you're still zero for life.

None of your on-the-spectrum mathematical masturbation proves anything except that you're a complete troll and a joke.

Fox's Mercantile
Guest

Wed Feb 06, 2019 4:45 am   



On 2/5/19 9:04 PM, John-Del wrote:
Quote:
None of your on-the-spectrum mathematical masturbation
proves anything except that you're a complete troll and
a joke.


*Laughs* Where's the Like button?



--
"I am a river to my people."
Jeff-1.0
WA6FWi
http:foxsmercantile.com

pfjw@aol.com
Guest

Wed Feb 06, 2019 2:45 pm   



On Tuesday, February 5, 2019 at 9:03:06 AM UTC-5, Rob wrote:

Quote:
Those times are probably not long enough. Even in my small car
(4-cyl 1.6L engine) I find that after a lot of 15-minute runs the oil
temperature caps at 100C when driving a bit longer, and it requires a
45 minute drive or so before it rises to 110-120C.


15 minutes at 1,000 rpm sitting still (using only the radiator fan if needed) is substantially different from moving down the road. Not to suggest that you are wrong. Every engine is different, and the goal is to drive all the moisture products-of-combustion out of the engine oil and exhaust system.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA


Guest

Wed Feb 06, 2019 2:45 pm   



On Wednesday, 6 February 2019 12:49:18 UTC, pf...@aol.com wrote:
Quote:
On Tuesday, February 5, 2019 at 9:03:06 AM UTC-5, Rob wrote:

Those times are probably not long enough. Even in my small car
(4-cyl 1.6L engine) I find that after a lot of 15-minute runs the oil
temperature caps at 100C when driving a bit longer, and it requires a
45 minute drive or so before it rises to 110-120C.

15 minutes at 1,000 rpm sitting still (using only the radiator fan if needed) is substantially different from moving down the road. Not to suggest that you are wrong. Every engine is different, and the goal is to drive all the moisture products-of-combustion out of the engine oil and exhaust system.


is it? Why would the OP need to do that every 2 weeks?

A 1987 car will have fairly low parasitic loads. It should be fine sat there for a month.


NT

pfjw@aol.com
Guest

Wed Feb 06, 2019 4:45 pm   



On Wednesday, February 6, 2019 at 8:11:58 AM UTC-5, tabb...@gmail.com wrote:

Quote:
is it? Why would the OP need to do that every 2 weeks?

A 1987 car will have fairly low parasitic loads. It should be fine sat there for a month.


Not sure where the OP and that Buick might be, but we just had a week of below-10F weather, not good for batteries, engine oil or other things.

Every two weeks is good practice.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

pfjw@aol.com
Guest

Wed Feb 06, 2019 5:45 pm   



On Wednesday, February 6, 2019 at 11:09:24 AM UTC-5, tabb...@gmail.com wrote:

Quote:

If it's below freezing the air is bone dry & any water from combustion frozen solid. Regardless of temperature cars do not need running every 2 weeks unless electrically faulty.


Water in the air is not the issue, and never was. Water from products-of-combustion are the issue.

Ideally, the battery would be float-charged with an actual "smart" charger. Most of the Chinese Junque chargers these days run a continuous charge into the battery - AKA a "trickle" charger. Not hardly the same thing. A trickle charge will either:

a) Destroy the battery by charging faster than the self-discharge rate.
b) Allow the battery to run flat by charging slower than the self-discharge rate.
c) Miraculously match the self-discharge rate... odds of this?

A Float Charger will activate at some point when the battery charge drops below the trigger level, charge to a specific set-point, and then shut off until the next cycle.

Failing the availability of a float charger, and, especially in extreme (hot or cold) weather conditions, "about every two weeks" is a good rule-of-thumb. One never quite knows the actual condition of the battery, charging system, parasitic loads and so forth, so 'designing to the specific need' may not be ideal. And more than a month or so starts getting into the risk of seals drying out - especially in 30+ year old engines.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

John-Del
Guest

Wed Feb 06, 2019 5:45 pm   



On Wednesday, February 6, 2019 at 11:09:24 AM UTC-5, tabb...@gmail.com wrote:
Quote:
On Wednesday, 6 February 2019 15:13:14 UTC, pf...@aol.com wrote:
On Wednesday, February 6, 2019 at 8:11:58 AM UTC-5, tabby wrote:

is it? Why would the OP need to do that every 2 weeks?

A 1987 car will have fairly low parasitic loads. It should be fine sat there for a month.


Not sure where the OP and that Buick might be, but we just had a week of below-10F weather, not good for batteries, engine oil or other things.

Every two weeks is good practice.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

If it's below freezing the air is bone dry & any water from combustion frozen solid.


Why does every little thing need to be challenged to absolutes in this NG? I've never seen so much mental dick-wagging on a "professional" group.

Is the car going to explode if started and run every two weeks? It might be overkill, but old cars in particular should be exercised often. Even the seals in the engine, transmission, rear end, and hydraulic systems are happier when kept lubricated by routine. Solenoids and vacuum actuators can stick from sitting long periods. And here's another reason: cars stored out of doors around where I live become fodder for squirrels and chipmunks when sitting in the same spot. I friend stored a low mileage Acura at my house (interior fire) while he located another from Copart to use as a donor. 6 months later, he went to drive the car out of my property and found the transmission harness eaten right down to the casting.

So... OP: start the Buick every two or three weeks, let it idle for a good half hour or so to get it good and hot if you can't drive it. If you can, take that old Buick for a good half hour drive - fedora and cigar optional....


Guest

Wed Feb 06, 2019 5:45 pm   



On Wednesday, 6 February 2019 15:13:14 UTC, pf...@aol.com wrote:
Quote:
On Wednesday, February 6, 2019 at 8:11:58 AM UTC-5, tabby wrote:

is it? Why would the OP need to do that every 2 weeks?

A 1987 car will have fairly low parasitic loads. It should be fine sat there for a month.


Not sure where the OP and that Buick might be, but we just had a week of below-10F weather, not good for batteries, engine oil or other things.

Every two weeks is good practice.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA


If it's below freezing the air is bone dry & any water from combustion frozen solid. Regardless of temperature cars do not need running every 2 weeks unless electrically faulty.


NT

Terry Schwartz
Guest

Wed Feb 06, 2019 8:45 pm   



This actually pretty easy. If you feel you really need to know, measure the quiescent current in the vehicle several minutes after the ignition has been shut off. It should be in the milliamp range. Now you can figure out the rate of discharge for the battery based on the AH rating. (NOT CCA). In hot or cold climates, derate the battery 20% for every year of life. (20% of the previous capacity, not the original capacity). BUT.... it really doesn't matter.

Vehicles with early electronics didn't manage the quiescent loads as well as modern vehicles. And added accessories can obviously add to that if they tap unswitched power.

You want to keep that battery charged to 80% or better of capacity. Because charging systems vary in algorithm and efficiency, and vehicles vary in dynamic loading, it's impossible to say "run the vehicle for X minutes every two weeks. But it is possible to pick a battery tender. Anything of decent quality today will taper the charge and many apply desulfating algorithms to the battery once it's charged. You can fearlessly leave a Schumacher or Battery Minder or Battery Tender on your dormant vehicle battery indefinitely.

The amp rating only makes a difference in the time it takes to charge the battery from a discharged state. Any tender can keep it topped off. I personally use tenders rated from 800ma to 4A and they all work fine on my many pieces of power sports equipment, as well as my winter-stored street vehicles, boats, and yard equipment.

Unless the battery is bad -- unusually high self discharge due to sulfation -- any tender has the capability to keep it topped off.

Note that final voltages are different for various types of batteries -- so if you are using an AGM or GEL battery, get the appropriate tender.

I *do* have some experience in this from both a personal and professional standpoint.


Guest

Thu Feb 07, 2019 2:45 am   



On Wednesday, 6 February 2019 16:36:28 UTC, John-Del wrote:
Quote:
On Wednesday, February 6, 2019 at 11:09:24 AM UTC-5, tabby wrote:
On Wednesday, 6 February 2019 15:13:14 UTC, pf...@aol.com wrote:
On Wednesday, February 6, 2019 at 8:11:58 AM UTC-5, tabby wrote:
pf:

15 minutes at 1,000 rpm sitting still (using only the radiator fan if needed) is substantially different from moving down the road. Not to suggest that you are wrong. Every engine is different, and the goal is to drive all the moisture products-of-combustion out of the engine oil and exhaust system.

is it? Why would the OP need to do that every 2 weeks?

A 1987 car will have fairly low parasitic loads. It should be fine sat there for a month.


Not sure where the OP and that Buick might be, but we just had a week of below-10F weather, not good for batteries, engine oil or other things.

Every two weeks is good practice.

If it's below freezing the air is bone dry & any water from combustion frozen solid.

Why does every little thing need to be challenged to absolutes in this NG?


The topic is how often the car should be started & for how long. It's a discussion.

> I've never seen so much mental dick-wagging on a "professional" group.

Differing opinions are not dick wagging

> Is the car going to explode if started and run every two weeks? It might be overkill, but old cars in particular should be exercised often. Even the seals in the engine, transmission, rear end, and hydraulic systems are happier when kept lubricated by routine. Solenoids and vacuum actuators can stick from sitting long periods.

Yes. 2 years yes, not 2 weeks

> And here's another reason: cars stored out of doors around where I live become fodder for squirrels and chipmunks when sitting in the same spot. I friend stored a low mileage Acura at my house (interior fire) while he located another from Copart to use as a donor. 6 months later, he went to drive the car out of my property and found the transmission harness eaten right down to the casting.

how would running the engine every 2 weeks solve that?

> So... OP: start the Buick every two or three weeks, let it idle for a good half hour or so to get it good and hot if you can't drive it. If you can, take that old Buick for a good half hour drive - fedora and cigar optional...

Groupthink has struck.


NT


Guest

Thu Feb 07, 2019 2:45 am   



On Wednesday, 6 February 2019 16:44:51 UTC, pf...@aol.com wrote:
Quote:
On Wednesday, February 6, 2019 at 11:09:24 AM UTC-5, tabby wrote:

If it's below freezing the air is bone dry & any water from combustion frozen solid. Regardless of temperature cars do not need running every 2 weeks unless electrically faulty.


Water in the air is not the issue, and never was. Water from products-of-combustion are the issue.


I've not heard any reason they wold be, nor how running every 2 weeks would cause less of that than every 4.


Quote:
Ideally, the battery would be float-charged with an actual "smart" charger. Most of the Chinese Junque chargers these days run a continuous charge into the battery - AKA a "trickle" charger. Not hardly the same thing. A trickle charge will either:

a) Destroy the battery by charging faster than the self-discharge rate.
b) Allow the battery to run flat by charging slower than the self-discharge rate.
c) Miraculously match the self-discharge rate... odds of this?

A Float Charger will activate at some point when the battery charge drops below the trigger level, charge to a specific set-point, and then shut off until the next cycle.

Failing the availability of a float charger, and, especially in extreme (hot or cold) weather conditions, "about every two weeks" is a good rule-of-thumb. One never quite knows the actual condition of the battery, charging system, parasitic loads and so forth, so 'designing to the specific need' may not be ideal. And more than a month or so starts getting into the risk of seals drying out - especially in 30+ year old engines.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA


I presumed the OP didn't have a charger, or we wouldn't be having this discussion. If the OP does have a decent charger, use it. If a not-decent charger, don't.


NT

John-Del
Guest

Thu Feb 07, 2019 4:45 am   



On Wednesday, February 6, 2019 at 8:39:22 PM UTC-5, tabb...@gmail.com wrote:
Quote:
On Wednesday, 6 February 2019 16:36:28 UTC, John-Del wrote:
On Wednesday, February 6, 2019 at 11:09:24 AM UTC-5, tabby wrote:
On Wednesday, 6 February 2019 15:13:14 UTC, pf...@aol.com wrote:
On Wednesday, February 6, 2019 at 8:11:58 AM UTC-5, tabby wrote:
pf:

15 minutes at 1,000 rpm sitting still (using only the radiator fan if needed) is substantially different from moving down the road. Not to suggest that you are wrong. Every engine is different, and the goal is to drive all the moisture products-of-combustion out of the engine oil and exhaust system.

is it? Why would the OP need to do that every 2 weeks?

A 1987 car will have fairly low parasitic loads. It should be fine sat there for a month.


Not sure where the OP and that Buick might be, but we just had a week of below-10F weather, not good for batteries, engine oil or other things..

Every two weeks is good practice.

If it's below freezing the air is bone dry & any water from combustion frozen solid.

Why does every little thing need to be challenged to absolutes in this NG?

The topic is how often the car should be started & for how long. It's a discussion.


A discussion is fine, but when you start saying stuff like "If it's below freezing the air is bone dry & any water from combustion frozen solid." that's not a discussion, that's pushing a silly argument. Cars develop condensation internally from incomplete heat cycling regardless of ambient conditions. Everyone knows this, including you I'm sure.


Quote:
I've never seen so much mental dick-wagging on a "professional" group.

Differing opinions are not dick wagging


It is when every bit of minutia is parsed to absurdity.


Quote:
Is the car going to explode if started and run every two weeks? It might be overkill, but old cars in particular should be exercised often. Even the seals in the engine, transmission, rear end, and hydraulic systems are happier when kept lubricated by routine. Solenoids and vacuum actuators can stick from sitting long periods.

Yes. 2 years yes, not 2 weeks


I didn't say they would stick in two weeks, I said that exercising the car every two weeks would likely prevent those issues. This is an old car we're talking about. The older they are, the more they need to keep moving.


Quote:
And here's another reason: cars stored out of doors around where I live become fodder for squirrels and chipmunks when sitting in the same spot. I friend stored a low mileage Acura at my house (interior fire) while he located another from Copart to use as a donor. 6 months later, he went to drive the car out of my property and found the transmission harness eaten right down to the casting.

how would running the engine every 2 weeks solve that?


Squirrels and chipmunks don't build nests inside cars that move often or smell of human interaction. Leave a car unmoved for a month and you start seeing chipmunks running under the car daily. I move my old plow Explorer every week or so and turn it around, or park it elsewhere for a few days.

+++ATH0
Guest

Thu Feb 07, 2019 6:45 am   



On 2019-02-06 08:44, pfjw_at_aol.com wrote:
> A Float Charger will activate at some point when the battery charge drops below the trigger level, charge to a specific set-point, and then shut off until the next cycle.

It seems like you don't know what a float charge is. It involves
maintaining the battery terminal voltage at the correct point for the
ambient temperature with a permanently-connected charger so that the
battery neither passes an appreciable amount of charge current nor
self-discharges. The relevant type of lead-acid cells will remain
fully-charged and healthy for decades when this is done correctly, but
only if they are intended for low-discharge float service, as seen in
telco POPs and similar where they are rarely called on for service.

Starter batteries don't deserve this sort of treatment, and the chargers
you get for them don't behave in this way. There are maintenance
chargers which are intended to be permanently connected which operate in
the way you suggest, but it's not float charging.

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