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Engine run time to keep battery charged

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Look165
Guest

Tue Feb 05, 2019 2:45 pm   



It's just an equation. (I suppose a 12V car battery).

3s of starter, means 3*(900/12) C = 225C = 62.5mAh=0.0625Ah (900W is the
starter power).
Just add this to the loss of the battery.

Knowing that the alternator charges at 13.8V about 500W (500/(13.8-12) 
i.e. 200As=0.55Ah , it's easy.


Tom Del Rosso a écrit le 04/02/2019 à 22:45 :
Quote:
If you turn over an engine periodically to keep it charged, how long do
you run it to make up for the charge lost in starting?

In this case it's my neighbor's 87 Buick Regal while he's in the
hospital.



pfjw@aol.com
Guest

Tue Feb 05, 2019 2:45 pm   



Arlen Holder and its various socks and clones is a genuinely dangerous individual and should be muzzled, blind-folded, have its fingers in mittens, encased in epoxy and super-glued to the opposite shoulders, feet tied, crossed and bent back at the knees, tied to its legs.

Only then will it be rendered very nearly harmless.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

Rob
Guest

Tue Feb 05, 2019 3:45 pm   



pfjw_at_aol.com <peterwieck33_at_gmail.com> wrote:
Quote:
On Monday, February 4, 2019 at 4:45:38 PM UTC-5, Tom Del Rosso wrote:
If you turn over an engine periodically to keep it charged, how long do
you run it to make up for the charge lost in starting?

In this case it's my neighbor's 87 Buick Regal while he's in the
hospital.


--

God Help Us! This was given in Drivers'Ed. I must be VERY old.

The rules of thumb are as follows. All times at ~1,000 rpm.

a) For a pre-catalyst car, a minimum of 15 minutes. This will bring every part of the system above the temperatures necessary to boil water out of the oil and the exhaust. This will also re-coat the cylinders with oil - which tends to be rinsed off by the very rich mixture on starting, especially when the outside temperatures are below freezing.

b) Post-Catalyst, carburetor: About the same, maybe only 10 - 12 minutes, as the catalyst will do a fine job of heating the exhaust. A V8 or other large-displacement engine will take longer.

c) Fuel-injected, 7 - 12 minutes. This directly related to engine displacement. Big = more time.

The physics of removing moisture from the oil becomes the driver (pun intended). The system must reach full operating temperature and stay there for a couple of minutes. Pretty much when moisture (steam) stops coming out of the tailpipe - and then a few minutes.

If you open the oil-fill cap and find a milky foam, you haven't been doing it long enough.


Those times are probably not long enough. Even in my small car
(4-cyl 1.6L engine) I find that after a lot of 15-minute runs the oil
temperature caps at 100C when driving a bit longer, and it requires a
45 minute drive or so before it rises to 110-120C.

arlen holder
Guest

Tue Feb 05, 2019 3:45 pm   



On Tue, 5 Feb 2019 00:03:14 -0500, bitrex wrote:

Quote:
https://www.jstor.org/stable/44611429?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents

It's behind a pay-wall but I can probably get my hands on a copy


Having authored peer-reviewed papers myself (in a different field), I took
a quick peek at the abstract of that paper, titled:
o Computer Simulation of an I.C. Engine During Cranking by a Starter Motor
<https://www.jstor.org/stable/44611429?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents>

"A mathematical model is developed to study the transient behavior of a two
stroke or four stroke, single cylinder I.C. engine during cranking and
starting by a starter motor. The engine model includes forces due to
inertia of reciprocating and rotating parts of engine, gas pressure,
frictional loss while starter motor dynamics is determined by the motor's
torque versus speed behavior. The numerical results of the analysis when
compared with the experimental results showed close correlation.
Engine starting by three models of starter motor is presented for a given
battery. Effect of different parameters like engine inertia and reduction
ratio between engine and a starter motor is described. It is shown here how
this analysis can be effectively used as a first step by an engine designer
for determining a suitable starter motor characteristic and its related
transmission parameters."

Hmmm... they _might_ cover the charge payback component, but I suspect
likely it will only be an ancillary input to the mathematical model, and
certainly it won't apply _directly_ to an 87 Buick Regal.

We should note that the given "battery" is seemingly incidental in this
paper, which seems to be aimed more toward designing starter motors, and,
specifically between choosing among three different types of fundamental
starter motor designs.

Still, it may be an interesting read, where, I'd be curious how the three
types of starter motors affected the model - but - I hazard a guess that we
won't find a direct answer for our charge component in that paper.

Fox's Mercantile
Guest

Tue Feb 05, 2019 4:45 pm   



I have a '96 Chevy Astro van.
It's about a 1/4 mile from the house to shop.
If all I do is go back and forth, by the end of the week,
I have to put the battery on a charger to "refill it"
properly.
If I drive to Walmart, 10 miles each way, its more than
happy.
I also have a '02 Dodge Dakota.
Which ever vehicle I'm not driving has a Harbor Freight
"top off" charger on it to maintain things while they
are parked.
It's that simple.


--
"I am a river to my people."
Jeff-1.0
WA6FWi
http:foxsmercantile.com

bitrex
Guest

Tue Feb 05, 2019 4:45 pm   



On 02/05/2019 10:00 AM, bitrex wrote:
Quote:
On 02/04/2019 04:45 PM, Tom Del Rosso wrote:
If you turn over an engine periodically to keep it charged, how long do
you run it to make up for the charge lost in starting?

In this case it's my neighbor's 87 Buick Regal while he's in the
hospital.



Here's a modern review of a 1989 Buick Century:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKYMgfjCd7E

"Boomers were in their early 40s and at the height of their power - they
understood the world, and the world turned according to their whims.
They understood computers because floppy disks were goddamn floppy, and
they knew the HIV virus was out there doing the good Lord's work."


The '87 Buick Regal is quite a different car from the Century, though.

I kinda picture a black '87 Buick Regal being the kind of car in the
late 80s or early 90s driven by a teenager in a jean jacket/vest with
AC/DC patches on it, hockey hair/"business in front party in back",
earring in the _left_ ear, smoking his Dad's Parliaments in the high
school parking lot with his 13 y/o girlfriend keeping an eye out for
some little _faggot_ to beat down for his lunch money. "Hey you. yeah,
you, you little queer. Give me your fuckin' lunch money you little bitch
boy!"

bitrex
Guest

Tue Feb 05, 2019 4:45 pm   



On 02/04/2019 04:45 PM, Tom Del Rosso wrote:
Quote:
If you turn over an engine periodically to keep it charged, how long do
you run it to make up for the charge lost in starting?

In this case it's my neighbor's 87 Buick Regal while he's in the
hospital.



Here's a modern review of a 1989 Buick Century:

<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKYMgfjCd7E>

"Boomers were in their early 40s and at the height of their power - they
understood the world, and the world turned according to their whims.
They understood computers because floppy disks were goddamn floppy, and
they knew the HIV virus was out there doing the good Lord's work."

John-Del
Guest

Tue Feb 05, 2019 5:45 pm   



On Tuesday, February 5, 2019 at 10:44:29 AM UTC-5, Fox's Mercantile wrote:
Quote:
I have a '96 Chevy Astro van.
It's about a 1/4 mile from the house to shop.
If all I do is go back and forth, by the end of the week,
I have to put the battery on a charger to "refill it"
properly.
If I drive to Walmart, 10 miles each way, its more than
happy.
I also have a '02 Dodge Dakota.
Which ever vehicle I'm not driving has a Harbor Freight
"top off" charger on it to maintain things while they
are parked.
It's that simple.


--
"I am a river to my people."
Jeff-1.0
WA6FWi
http:foxsmercantile.com


I have a C5 Corvette which I store for the winter. If that car is not run in 5 weeks, the battery is DEAD (won't even click the starter solenoid). That is normal behavior for this particular car. When I had an early 2000s Mustang, that car could sit 5 months and start in the spring like it was run the day before. Depends on the car, but between self discharge of the battery and the particular car's parasitic loss, cars need much more than "72" seconds to keep charged.

Fox's Mercantile
Guest

Tue Feb 05, 2019 5:45 pm   



On 2/5/19 10:05 AM, John-Del wrote:
Quote:
Depends on the car, but between self discharge of the
battery and the particular car's parasitic loss, cars
need much more than "72" seconds to keep charged.


You will never be able to convince anyone who insists on
talking just to hear them selves talk.

Or those that insist on posting every really obscure
exception to what normally happens.



--
"I am a river to my people."
Jeff-1.0
WA6FWi
http:foxsmercantile.com

bitrex
Guest

Tue Feb 05, 2019 7:45 pm   



On 02/05/2019 10:44 AM, Fox's Mercantile wrote:
> I have a '96 Chevy Astro van.

It's juuuuunk throw it in the garbage

bitrex
Guest

Tue Feb 05, 2019 7:45 pm   



On 02/05/2019 11:05 AM, John-Del wrote:
Quote:
On Tuesday, February 5, 2019 at 10:44:29 AM UTC-5, Fox's Mercantile wrote:
I have a '96 Chevy Astro van.
It's about a 1/4 mile from the house to shop.
If all I do is go back and forth, by the end of the week,
I have to put the battery on a charger to "refill it"
properly.
If I drive to Walmart, 10 miles each way, its more than
happy.
I also have a '02 Dodge Dakota.
Which ever vehicle I'm not driving has a Harbor Freight
"top off" charger on it to maintain things while they
are parked.
It's that simple.


--
"I am a river to my people."
Jeff-1.0
WA6FWi
http:foxsmercantile.com

I have a C5 Corvette which I store for the winter. If that car is not run in 5 weeks, the battery is DEAD (won't even click the starter solenoid). That is normal behavior for this particular car. When I had an early 2000s Mustang, that car could sit 5 months and start in the spring like it was run the day before. Depends on the car, but between self discharge of the battery and the particular car's parasitic loss, cars need much more than "72" seconds to keep charged.


Throw that junk away man it's an antique

Fox's Mercantile
Guest

Tue Feb 05, 2019 7:45 pm   



On 2/5/19 11:50 AM, bitrex wrote:
Quote:
On 02/05/2019 10:44 AM, Fox's Mercantile wrote:
I have a '96 Chevy Astro van.

It's juuuuunk throw it in the garbage


I bought it used in 2000. It's been a daily driver for
past 19 years. Still going strong.



--
"I am a river to my people."
Jeff-1.0
WA6FWi
http:foxsmercantile.com


Guest

Tue Feb 05, 2019 8:45 pm   



On Monday, February 4, 2019 at 4:45:38 PM UTC-5, Tom Del Rosso wrote:
Quote:
If you turn over an engine periodically to keep it charged, how long do
you run it to make up for the charge lost in starting?

In this case it's my neighbor's 87 Buick Regal while he's in the
hospital.


--


Drive it around the block. It's good to have the wheels spin and the
brakes engage too.

George H.

arlen holder
Guest

Wed Feb 06, 2019 1:45 am   



On Mon, 4 Feb 2019 21:53:08 -0800 (PST), tabbypurr_at_gmail.com wrote:

Quote:
Best answer so far.
100A would only be delivered to a flat battery, it'll charge much slower than that.
There's also the parasitic loads to make up for, the electronics that eats power when the vehicle is off and on.

You're better off testing battery voltage and not doing anything until it drops enough to warrant charging. Leads acids don't like sitting even half discharged, keep it near full.


Since you are a logical sentient adult, you speak on-topic wisdom.
o I agree to everything you said, where I basically said the same thing.

To _directly_ answer the OP's question, we only need to replace Coulombs
o However, there is _more_ to "maintaining" the battery status than just that.

We agree.
o Adults easily agree on such things simply because they are related facts.

arlen holder
Guest

Wed Feb 06, 2019 1:45 am   



On Tue, 5 Feb 2019 05:38:48 -0800 (PST), pfjw_at_aol.com wrote:

> Only then will it be rendered very nearly harmless.

*Jesus Christ, pfjw proves in every post, his brain stem is that of a child!*

I don't even need to prove pfjw can _only_ write as that of a child.
o You prove it yourself _every_ time you post your childish off-topic drivel
(For example, "it", is, I'm sure, *hilariously* witty to you & your ilk.)

HINT: You clearly don't even have a clue what the OP's question is asking.
DOUBLEHINT: You certainly have no chance at _answering_ the OP's question.
TRIPLEHINT: You can't even _insult_ someone using >3rd-grade retorts

Jesus Christ, pfjw,
o You prove yourself, in _every_ post to own the brain of a mere child.

--
NOTE: To save others from having to deal with the worthless pfjw's drivel,
I will no longer respond to his always child-like posts any further in this
thread.

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