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Joerg
Guest

Thu Jan 05, 2017 1:34 am   



Folks,

Just started to use BofA's Bill Pay. When I entered a pay order to
another account it only accepted it with a "delivery date" next Monday.
Five days! Another payment made on the weekend is still "processing".

Where are we? In the Flintstonian age? When I was living in Europe
_decades_ ago this stuff happened within minutes. Here, banking
electrons seem to be like molasses in Siberia.

We need a Banking-Trump ...

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

Lasse Langwadt Christense
Guest

Thu Jan 05, 2017 1:34 am   



Den onsdag den 4. januar 2017 kl. 23.39.36 UTC+1 skrev Joerg:
Quote:
On 2017-01-04 14:29, Martin Brown wrote:
On 04/01/2017 21:37, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-01-04 13:20, rickman wrote:
On 1/4/2017 3:52 PM, Joerg wrote:

Regs don't explain that medieval Bill-Pay performance though. Our
bankers should visit Europe and see how it's done right.

I guess they like hanging on to your money and the interest on it for as
long as they think they can get away with it...

You see the world through very simple glasses, don't you?

No, I lived there and know.

It does vary a bit between countries in Europe though.

UK has almost given up on cheques entirely now with chip&PIN having
taken over. Internet banking will let me move money almost instantly to
pay any bill once I have verified who I am with a local chip&PIN reader
and sent back a code generated by it in combination with a txt to my
phone. Repeat payments don't need this "did you intend to pay X" test.
They guarantee money to recipient account within 3 hours. Bills also
come with QR codes on that will also let you pay by smartphone bank app.

Belgium has had a push payment all electronic system and eCash since
before the start of this millenium. Many people pretty much gave up on
cash for small purchases in Euros since eCash on a bank card was easier.
No need for a pocket full of small change just use the card even for
tiny purchases and no extra fees for doing it.


Even back in the 70's and 80's I can't remember the last time I used a
check over in Europe. The bank gave me a small book of checks but that
just sat in a locked drawer. After I moved to the US the bank gave me a
huge stack of checks and I was "WHAT??". It felt like a step back into
the days of the Ford Model T.


here there are no checks anymore it stopped at the end of 2016

Lasse Langwadt Christense
Guest

Thu Jan 05, 2017 1:34 am   



Den onsdag den 4. januar 2017 kl. 23.59.16 UTC+1 skrev Joerg:
Quote:
On 2017-01-04 14:56, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
Den onsdag den 4. januar 2017 kl. 23.39.36 UTC+1 skrev Joerg:
On 2017-01-04 14:29, Martin Brown wrote:
On 04/01/2017 21:37, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-01-04 13:20, rickman wrote:
On 1/4/2017 3:52 PM, Joerg wrote:

Regs don't explain that medieval Bill-Pay performance though. Our
bankers should visit Europe and see how it's done right.

I guess they like hanging on to your money and the interest on it for as
long as they think they can get away with it...

You see the world through very simple glasses, don't you?

No, I lived there and know.

It does vary a bit between countries in Europe though.

UK has almost given up on cheques entirely now with chip&PIN having
taken over. Internet banking will let me move money almost instantly to
pay any bill once I have verified who I am with a local chip&PIN reader
and sent back a code generated by it in combination with a txt to my
phone. Repeat payments don't need this "did you intend to pay X" test.
They guarantee money to recipient account within 3 hours. Bills also
come with QR codes on that will also let you pay by smartphone bank app.

Belgium has had a push payment all electronic system and eCash since
before the start of this millenium. Many people pretty much gave up on
cash for small purchases in Euros since eCash on a bank card was easier.
No need for a pocket full of small change just use the card even for
tiny purchases and no extra fees for doing it.


Even back in the 70's and 80's I can't remember the last time I used a
check over in Europe. The bank gave me a small book of checks but that
just sat in a locked drawer. After I moved to the US the bank gave me a
huge stack of checks and I was "WHAT??". It felt like a step back into
the days of the Ford Model T.

here there are no checks anymore it stopped at the end of 2016


We may be there soon as well. In, oh, maybe 15-20 years Smile


and it's not like the banks here were moving fast, I've never written a check
in my life

Lasse Langwadt Christense
Guest

Thu Jan 05, 2017 1:44 am   



Den torsdag den 5. januar 2017 kl. 00.30.52 UTC+1 skrev Jim Thompson:
Quote:
On Wed, 04 Jan 2017 14:59:18 -0800, Joerg <news_at_analogconsultants.com
wrote:

On 2017-01-04 14:56, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
Den onsdag den 4. januar 2017 kl. 23.39.36 UTC+1 skrev Joerg:
On 2017-01-04 14:29, Martin Brown wrote:
On 04/01/2017 21:37, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-01-04 13:20, rickman wrote:
On 1/4/2017 3:52 PM, Joerg wrote:

Regs don't explain that medieval Bill-Pay performance though. Our
bankers should visit Europe and see how it's done right.

I guess they like hanging on to your money and the interest on it for as
long as they think they can get away with it...

You see the world through very simple glasses, don't you?

No, I lived there and know.

It does vary a bit between countries in Europe though.

UK has almost given up on cheques entirely now with chip&PIN having
taken over. Internet banking will let me move money almost instantly to
pay any bill once I have verified who I am with a local chip&PIN reader
and sent back a code generated by it in combination with a txt to my
phone. Repeat payments don't need this "did you intend to pay X" test.
They guarantee money to recipient account within 3 hours. Bills also
come with QR codes on that will also let you pay by smartphone bank app.

Belgium has had a push payment all electronic system and eCash since
before the start of this millenium. Many people pretty much gave up on
cash for small purchases in Euros since eCash on a bank card was easier.
No need for a pocket full of small change just use the card even for
tiny purchases and no extra fees for doing it.


Even back in the 70's and 80's I can't remember the last time I used a
check over in Europe. The bank gave me a small book of checks but that
just sat in a locked drawer. After I moved to the US the bank gave me a
huge stack of checks and I was "WHAT??". It felt like a step back into
the days of the Ford Model T.

here there are no checks anymore it stopped at the end of 2016


We may be there soon as well. In, oh, maybe 15-20 years :-)

The only checks we write... the wife's hairdresser who doesn't take
cards because the banks charge a percentage, credit OR debit.


here the banks formed a coop that handled a national card the by law
can't have any fees, it must be treated like cash.

It does cost a store an annual fee to accept cards but compared to
handling cash it is nothing

and anyone can with a card and a cellphone can send or receive money

Jim Thompson
Guest

Thu Jan 05, 2017 2:08 am   



On Wed, 04 Jan 2017 10:34:08 -0800, Joerg <news_at_analogconsultants.com>
wrote:

Quote:
Folks,

Just started to use BofA's Bill Pay. When I entered a pay order to
another account it only accepted it with a "delivery date" next Monday.
Five days! Another payment made on the weekend is still "processing".


"Processing" just means not yet "officially" posted, which occurs each
night.

Quote:

Where are we? In the Flintstonian age? When I was living in Europe
_decades_ ago this stuff happened within minutes. Here, banking
electrons seem to be like molasses in Siberia.

We need a Banking-Trump ...


BofA sucks, for many other reasons.

Multi-day Bill Pay occurs because the recipient doesn't have a
transfer account set up with BofA and actually is paid via a check...
my water bill is like that. Most of my Bill-Pays post next day from
entry.

"Bill Pay" is different from "Transfers"... account-to-account
transfers occur relatively fast... somewhat pokey with BofA,
instantaneous with Chase.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson | mens |
| Analog Innovations | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| STV, Queen Creek, AZ 85142 Skype: skypeanalog | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

Political correctness and despotism go hand-in-hand.

Political correctness is just another word for control.

As Voltaire said, "To learn who rules over you, simply find out
who you are not allowed to criticize."

John Larkin
Guest

Thu Jan 05, 2017 3:00 am   



On Wed, 04 Jan 2017 10:34:08 -0800, Joerg <news_at_analogconsultants.com>
wrote:

Quote:
Folks,

Just started to use BofA's Bill Pay. When I entered a pay order to
another account it only accepted it with a "delivery date" next Monday.
Five days! Another payment made on the weekend is still "processing".

Where are we? In the Flintstonian age? When I was living in Europe
_decades_ ago this stuff happened within minutes. Here, banking
electrons seem to be like molasses in Siberia.

We need a Banking-Trump ...


Things are pretty barbaric. The "new" chip cards are absurd too,
ancient technology.


--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc
picosecond timing precision measurement

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
http://www.highlandtechnology.com

Lasse Langwadt Christense
Guest

Thu Jan 05, 2017 3:07 am   



Den torsdag den 5. januar 2017 kl. 02.00.53 UTC+1 skrev Tom Gardner:
Quote:
On 04/01/17 22:56, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
here there are no checks anymore it stopped at the end of 2016

How do grandparents give a birthday present of money
to their grandkids?
How do you pay a tradesman for a £1000 job?


use cash or much easier use online transfer

Quote:

I rarely use cheques now, but I would fight against their
disappearance - as the banks were planning 5 years or so ago.


why mess around with pieces of paper when you can do everything
online?

Joerg
Guest

Thu Jan 05, 2017 3:10 am   



On 2017-01-04 11:08, Jim Thompson wrote:
Quote:
On Wed, 04 Jan 2017 10:34:08 -0800, Joerg <news_at_analogconsultants.com
wrote:

Folks,

Just started to use BofA's Bill Pay. When I entered a pay order to
another account it only accepted it with a "delivery date" next Monday.
Five days! Another payment made on the weekend is still "processing".

"Processing" just means not yet "officially" posted, which occurs each
night.


Where are we? In the Flintstonian age? When I was living in Europe
_decades_ ago this stuff happened within minutes. Here, banking
electrons seem to be like molasses in Siberia.

We need a Banking-Trump ...

BofA sucks, for many other reasons.


The local branch sure does, lots of waiting in line. But hardly any
serious competition out here.


Quote:
Multi-day Bill Pay occurs because the recipient doesn't have a
transfer account set up with BofA and actually is paid via a check...
my water bill is like that. Most of my Bill-Pays post next day from
entry.


However, they have them preset as Bill Pay recipient, meaning you can
just click that recipient. If it was a check they could not offer this
for free.


Quote:
"Bill Pay" is different from "Transfers"... account-to-account
transfers occur relatively fast... somewhat pokey with BofA,
instantaneous with Chase.


I thought that was what Bill Pay is. If a vendor sets it up with BofA
there is no reason why not to do an electronic transfer.

Anyhow, it kind of leads this whole online banking ad absurdum if it's
all translated back into the old smoke signaling and stage coach
transport behind the curtains.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

Joerg
Guest

Thu Jan 05, 2017 3:14 am   



On 2017-01-04 12:00, John Larkin wrote:
Quote:
On Wed, 04 Jan 2017 10:34:08 -0800, Joerg <news_at_analogconsultants.com
wrote:

Folks,

Just started to use BofA's Bill Pay. When I entered a pay order to
another account it only accepted it with a "delivery date" next Monday.
Five days! Another payment made on the weekend is still "processing".

Where are we? In the Flintstonian age? When I was living in Europe
_decades_ ago this stuff happened within minutes. Here, banking
electrons seem to be like molasses in Siberia.

We need a Banking-Trump ...

Things are pretty barbaric. The "new" chip cards are absurd too,
ancient technology.


Yes. In many ways the US is leading in technology but not when it comes
to banking technology. There we are decades behind. Same in real estate.
It took exactly 7-1/2 minutes to sell our house in Germany. Here it took
a whole month to buy one because, as we were told, "escrow just takes
that long". It's like waiting for the Cartwrights to ride into town.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

Jim Thompson
Guest

Thu Jan 05, 2017 3:45 am   



On Wed, 04 Jan 2017 12:14:07 -0800, Joerg <news_at_analogconsultants.com>
wrote:

Quote:
On 2017-01-04 12:00, John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 04 Jan 2017 10:34:08 -0800, Joerg <news_at_analogconsultants.com
wrote:

Folks,

Just started to use BofA's Bill Pay. When I entered a pay order to
another account it only accepted it with a "delivery date" next Monday.
Five days! Another payment made on the weekend is still "processing".

Where are we? In the Flintstonian age? When I was living in Europe
_decades_ ago this stuff happened within minutes. Here, banking
electrons seem to be like molasses in Siberia.

We need a Banking-Trump ...

Things are pretty barbaric. The "new" chip cards are absurd too,
ancient technology.


Yes. In many ways the US is leading in technology but not when it comes
to banking technology. There we are decades behind. Same in real estate.
It took exactly 7-1/2 minutes to sell our house in Germany. Here it took
a whole month to buy one because, as we were told, "escrow just takes
that long". It's like waiting for the Cartwrights to ride into town.


A whole lot of your grief is Californica-specific.

(One of my major accounts recently left Californica for Austin, TX,
citing Californica regs and taxes as the reason.)

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson | mens |
| Analog Innovations | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| STV, Queen Creek, AZ 85142 Skype: skypeanalog | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

Political correctness and despotism go hand-in-hand.

Political correctness is just another word for control.

As Voltaire said, "To learn who rules over you, simply find out
who you are not allowed to criticize."

Jim Thompson
Guest

Thu Jan 05, 2017 3:47 am   



On Wed, 04 Jan 2017 12:10:43 -0800, Joerg <news_at_analogconsultants.com>
wrote:

Quote:
On 2017-01-04 11:08, Jim Thompson wrote:
On Wed, 04 Jan 2017 10:34:08 -0800, Joerg <news_at_analogconsultants.com
wrote:

Folks,

Just started to use BofA's Bill Pay. When I entered a pay order to
another account it only accepted it with a "delivery date" next Monday.
Five days! Another payment made on the weekend is still "processing".

"Processing" just means not yet "officially" posted, which occurs each
night.


Where are we? In the Flintstonian age? When I was living in Europe
_decades_ ago this stuff happened within minutes. Here, banking
electrons seem to be like molasses in Siberia.

We need a Banking-Trump ...

BofA sucks, for many other reasons.


The local branch sure does, lots of waiting in line. But hardly any
serious competition out here.


That's why I'm gradually moving everything to Chase... BofA here
closed all their drive-ups.

Quote:


Multi-day Bill Pay occurs because the recipient doesn't have a
transfer account set up with BofA and actually is paid via a check...
my water bill is like that. Most of my Bill-Pays post next day from
entry.


However, they have them preset as Bill Pay recipient, meaning you can
just click that recipient. If it was a check they could not offer this
for free.


If you dig into details you find a check is issued.

Quote:


"Bill Pay" is different from "Transfers"... account-to-account
transfers occur relatively fast... somewhat pokey with BofA,
instantaneous with Chase.


I thought that was what Bill Pay is. If a vendor sets it up with BofA
there is no reason why not to do an electronic transfer.

Anyhow, it kind of leads this whole online banking ad absurdum if it's
all translated back into the old smoke signaling and stage coach
transport behind the curtains.


What annoys me... if I deposit cash I have to show ID.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson | mens |
| Analog Innovations | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| STV, Queen Creek, AZ 85142 Skype: skypeanalog | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

Political correctness and despotism go hand-in-hand.

Political correctness is just another word for control.

As Voltaire said, "To learn who rules over you, simply find out
who you are not allowed to criticize."

Joerg
Guest

Thu Jan 05, 2017 3:52 am   



On 2017-01-04 12:45, Jim Thompson wrote:
Quote:
On Wed, 04 Jan 2017 12:14:07 -0800, Joerg <news_at_analogconsultants.com
wrote:

On 2017-01-04 12:00, John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 04 Jan 2017 10:34:08 -0800, Joerg <news_at_analogconsultants.com
wrote:

Folks,

Just started to use BofA's Bill Pay. When I entered a pay order to
another account it only accepted it with a "delivery date" next Monday.
Five days! Another payment made on the weekend is still "processing".

Where are we? In the Flintstonian age? When I was living in Europe
_decades_ ago this stuff happened within minutes. Here, banking
electrons seem to be like molasses in Siberia.

We need a Banking-Trump ...

Things are pretty barbaric. The "new" chip cards are absurd too,
ancient technology.


Yes. In many ways the US is leading in technology but not when it comes
to banking technology. There we are decades behind. Same in real estate.
It took exactly 7-1/2 minutes to sell our house in Germany. Here it took
a whole month to buy one because, as we were told, "escrow just takes
that long". It's like waiting for the Cartwrights to ride into town.

A whole lot of your grief is Californica-specific.

(One of my major accounts recently left Californica for Austin, TX,
citing Californica regs and taxes as the reason.)


Same here. Most of my work now comes from Texas and similar places. It
required me to shift my work day and I have to get up a 6:30am. Not a
big deal though and it also means we that can have dinner earlier
because work from California is rare.

Regs don't explain that medieval Bill-Pay performance though. Our
bankers should visit Europe and see how it's done right.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

rickman
Guest

Thu Jan 05, 2017 4:17 am   



On 1/4/2017 1:34 PM, Joerg wrote:
Quote:
Folks,

Just started to use BofA's Bill Pay. When I entered a pay order to
another account it only accepted it with a "delivery date" next Monday.
Five days! Another payment made on the weekend is still "processing".

Where are we? In the Flintstonian age? When I was living in Europe
_decades_ ago this stuff happened within minutes. Here, banking
electrons seem to be like molasses in Siberia.

We need a Banking-Trump ...


History. Banks are not dot com startups and here they are stuck in the
70s. The whole monthly statement thing came from the need to
periodically verify your account status. When they started using
computers they would data entry to tape and the tape would be run once a
month by a computer service. Eventually banks got their own computers,
but still the monthly run to generate statements. Eventually the
figured out the internet and they started allowing ACH transfers to send
money. But ACH is *slow* for no earthly reason I know of. In the early
days they still were handling tapes!!! Now that it is all electronic,
they still have not modified the timing. There is also little
accountability. I had a very slow transfer between two of my accounts
at different banks and each one pointed a finger to the other...

Yup, it all sucks. My present bank can't even provide an image of my
online checks if sent by the third party online payment company or of my
deposit slips. Not one bank that I have found will let me access my
transactions online for more than a few months. They expect me to pull
down monthly PDF statements!!!

It's time for Google to take over banking.

--

Rick C

rickman
Guest

Thu Jan 05, 2017 4:20 am   



On 1/4/2017 3:52 PM, Joerg wrote:
Quote:
On 2017-01-04 12:45, Jim Thompson wrote:
On Wed, 04 Jan 2017 12:14:07 -0800, Joerg <news_at_analogconsultants.com
wrote:

On 2017-01-04 12:00, John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 04 Jan 2017 10:34:08 -0800, Joerg <news_at_analogconsultants.com
wrote:

Folks,

Just started to use BofA's Bill Pay. When I entered a pay order to
another account it only accepted it with a "delivery date" next
Monday.
Five days! Another payment made on the weekend is still "processing".

Where are we? In the Flintstonian age? When I was living in Europe
_decades_ ago this stuff happened within minutes. Here, banking
electrons seem to be like molasses in Siberia.

We need a Banking-Trump ...

Things are pretty barbaric. The "new" chip cards are absurd too,
ancient technology.


Yes. In many ways the US is leading in technology but not when it comes
to banking technology. There we are decades behind. Same in real estate.
It took exactly 7-1/2 minutes to sell our house in Germany. Here it took
a whole month to buy one because, as we were told, "escrow just takes
that long". It's like waiting for the Cartwrights to ride into town.

A whole lot of your grief is Californica-specific.

(One of my major accounts recently left Californica for Austin, TX,
citing Californica regs and taxes as the reason.)


Same here. Most of my work now comes from Texas and similar places. It
required me to shift my work day and I have to get up a 6:30am. Not a
big deal though and it also means we that can have dinner earlier
because work from California is rare.

Regs don't explain that medieval Bill-Pay performance though. Our
bankers should visit Europe and see how it's done right.


You see the world through very simple glasses, don't you?

--

Rick C

Joerg
Guest

Thu Jan 05, 2017 4:36 am   



On 2017-01-04 13:17, rickman wrote:
Quote:
On 1/4/2017 1:34 PM, Joerg wrote:
Folks,

Just started to use BofA's Bill Pay. When I entered a pay order to
another account it only accepted it with a "delivery date" next Monday.
Five days! Another payment made on the weekend is still "processing".

Where are we? In the Flintstonian age? When I was living in Europe
_decades_ ago this stuff happened within minutes. Here, banking
electrons seem to be like molasses in Siberia.

We need a Banking-Trump ...

History. Banks are not dot com startups and here they are stuck in the
70s.


Not the European banks. I opened an engineering office while living
there in 1989 and because I was almost instantly swamped with
assignments I let a local contractor do the carpeting, wall paper and so
on. He dropped the invoice by early one morning. I had to go into town
anyhow so I filled out a machine-readable transfer slip, put the amount,
their bank name, routing number and account number on it, walked past my
bank, it went into the machine ... rat-tat-tat-chomp ... beep ... got a
receipt. The same day the contractor told me that I was the fastest
payer they ever had.


Quote:
... The whole monthly statement thing came from the need to
periodically verify your account status. When they started using
computers they would data entry to tape and the tape would be run once a
month by a computer service. Eventually banks got their own computers,
but still the monthly run to generate statements. Eventually the
figured out the internet and they started allowing ACH transfers to send
money. But ACH is *slow* for no earthly reason I know of. In the early
days they still were handling tapes!!! Now that it is all electronic,
they still have not modified the timing. There is also little
accountability. I had a very slow transfer between two of my accounts
at different banks and each one pointed a finger to the other...


Bankers do not seem to understand technology. Just like the makers of
pellet stove, bicycle electronics, and so on. There are myriad
opportunities for engineers to fix all this if they'd only let us.


Quote:
Yup, it all sucks. My present bank can't even provide an image of my
online checks if sent by the third party online payment company or of my
deposit slips.


That is (so far) the only positive I saw in online banking. I could pull
the copy of a cancelled check, both sides. That is nice to have
alongside the usual statement of receipt by the charity when making a
larger donation.

However, and this boggles the mind, while my bank lets people with smart
phones post checks via their phones camera they do not allow same via
scanner and online banking on the PC. Even though the scan would be of
way higher quality. You have to stand in line while there is only one
teller and 3-5 other bank employees sitting or milling about.


Quote:
... Not one bank that I have found will let me access my
transactions online for more than a few months. They expect me to pull
down monthly PDF statements!!!

It's time for Google to take over banking.


That I wouldn't like. They should haul in a few thousand European
bankers and let them clean house.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

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