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Electric Vehicles Don't Like Cold Weather!

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Cursitor Doom
Guest

Mon Feb 04, 2019 3:45 pm   



Those batteries just aren't up to it.


www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-02-03/winter-wreaking-havoc-electric-vehicles



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Guest

Mon Feb 04, 2019 3:45 pm   



On Monday, February 4, 2019 at 9:08:33 AM UTC-5, Cursitor Doom wrote:
> Those batteries just aren't up to it.

No, in the winter they get down! I'll be sure to check on this when I take my next 1500 mile trip. lol



Quote:
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This message may be freely reproduced without limit or charge only via
the Usenet protocol. Reproduction in whole or part through other
protocols, whether for profit or not, is conditional upon a charge of
GBP10.00 per reproduction. Publication in this manner via non-Usenet
protocols constitutes acceptance of this condition.


If I post your message on my web site, will I get an invoice from Cursitor Doom?



Rick C.

- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

bitrex
Guest

Mon Feb 04, 2019 3:45 pm   



On 02/04/2019 09:17 AM, gnuarm.deletethisbit_at_gmail.com wrote:
Quote:
On Monday, February 4, 2019 at 9:08:33 AM UTC-5, Cursitor Doom wrote:
Those batteries just aren't up to it.

No, in the winter they get down! I'll be sure to check on this when I take my next 1500 mile trip. lol


The comments on ZeroHedge are usually worth a laugh though, they're
always from the usual type of comments-dude, who posts on ZeroHedge all
day AND claims to get all the hottest chicks


Quote:

--
This message may be freely reproduced without limit or charge only via
the Usenet protocol. Reproduction in whole or part through other
protocols, whether for profit or not, is conditional upon a charge of
GBP10.00 per reproduction. Publication in this manner via non-Usenet
protocols constitutes acceptance of this condition.

If I post your message on my web site, will I get an invoice from Cursitor Doom?


Seems like a tough way to make a living.

Quote:
Rick C.

- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209


John Larkin
Guest

Mon Feb 04, 2019 4:45 pm   



On Mon, 4 Feb 2019 09:40:14 -0500, bitrex <user_at_example.net> wrote:

Quote:
On 02/04/2019 09:17 AM, gnuarm.deletethisbit_at_gmail.com wrote:
On Monday, February 4, 2019 at 9:08:33 AM UTC-5, Cursitor Doom wrote:
Those batteries just aren't up to it.

No, in the winter they get down! I'll be sure to check on this when I take my next 1500 mile trip. lol


The comments on ZeroHedge are usually worth a laugh though, they're
always from the usual type of comments-dude, who posts on ZeroHedge all
day AND claims to get all the hottest chicks


Is the Fortune article polluted because it's linked from Zero?

Do Teslas run just as well below 0F?



--

John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc

lunatic fringe electronics


Guest

Mon Feb 04, 2019 4:45 pm   



On Monday, February 4, 2019 at 10:11:56 AM UTC-5, bitrex wrote:
Quote:
On 02/04/2019 09:58 AM, bitrex wrote:
On 02/04/2019 09:08 AM, Cursitor Doom wrote:
Those batteries just aren't up to it.


www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-02-03/winter-wreaking-havoc-electric-vehicles




It was pushing down to -15 C here the past few nights mine seemed to
work fine. You lose some range in very cold weather. Hybrids and ICE
cars lose range in very cold weather, too.

"Range" meters don't show actual SoC they're running-average estimates
of recent driving history that factor in everything including
temperature and terrain so yeah if you try you probably can "lose" half
your range by say poking around town in relatively mild weather then
blasting out onto the highway at 75 mph in -15 weather. OMG I lost half
mah charge my battery has failed! nah the meter just hasn't updated for
what you're doing with the car _now_ vs. what you're doing with it _then_.

It's less noticeable in an ICE car because you're wasting so much energy
already. you'd think "huh got 32 mpg on that trip instead of 35 tonight"
and think little of that not realizing you could probably fill a Leaf's
battery pack all the way with just the energy you wasted

Tesla does make some odd design decisions in the Model 3 though IMO I
think the charge port door is in an odd location tucked away under the
left rear tail-light, a vulnerable location one of the most common
places to get whapped in minor accidents, and I can see how the recessed
door handles might be problematic in very cold weather, even "regular"
door handles can freeze up real good and be tough to unstick in bitter
cold weather as most New England or Minnesota or Wisconsin or...etc.
resident could tell you.


Door handles? What are they for? Doesn't everyone let their doors open automatically? My model X does. I haven't driven a model 3. Do you really have to use the door handle to get in the thing? No wonder they aren't selling very well.


Rick C.

+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

bitrex
Guest

Mon Feb 04, 2019 4:45 pm   



On 02/04/2019 09:58 AM, bitrex wrote:
Quote:
On 02/04/2019 09:08 AM, Cursitor Doom wrote:
Those batteries just aren't up to it.


www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-02-03/winter-wreaking-havoc-electric-vehicles




It was pushing down to -15 C here the past few nights mine seemed to
work fine. You lose some range in very cold weather. Hybrids and ICE
cars lose range in very cold weather, too.

"Range" meters don't show actual SoC they're running-average estimates
of recent driving history that factor in everything including
temperature and terrain so yeah if you try you probably can "lose" half
your range by say poking around town in relatively mild weather then
blasting out onto the highway at 75 mph in -15 weather. OMG I lost half
mah charge my battery has failed! nah the meter just hasn't updated for
what you're doing with the car _now_ vs. what you're doing with it _then_.

It's less noticeable in an ICE car because you're wasting so much energy
already. you'd think "huh got 32 mpg on that trip instead of 35 tonight"
and think little of that not realizing you could probably fill a Leaf's
battery pack all the way with just the energy you wasted


Tesla does make some odd design decisions in the Model 3 though IMO I
think the charge port door is in an odd location tucked away under the
left rear tail-light, a vulnerable location one of the most common
places to get whapped in minor accidents, and I can see how the recessed
door handles might be problematic in very cold weather, even "regular"
door handles can freeze up real good and be tough to unstick in bitter
cold weather as most New England or Minnesota or Wisconsin or...etc.
resident could tell you.

bitrex
Guest

Mon Feb 04, 2019 4:45 pm   



On 02/04/2019 09:08 AM, Cursitor Doom wrote:
Quote:


It was pushing down to -15 C here the past few nights mine seemed to
work fine. You lose some range in very cold weather. Hybrids and ICE
cars lose range in very cold weather, too.

"Range" meters don't show actual SoC they're running-average estimates
of recent driving history that factor in everything including
temperature and terrain so yeah if you try you probably can "lose" half
your range by say poking around town in relatively mild weather then
blasting out onto the highway at 75 mph in -15 weather. OMG I lost half
mah charge my battery has failed! nah the meter just hasn't updated for
what you're doing with the car _now_ vs. what you're doing with it _then_.

It's less noticeable in an ICE car because you're wasting so much energy
already. you'd think "huh got 32 mpg on that trip instead of 35 tonight"
and think little of that not realizing you could probably fill a Leaf's
battery pack all the way with just the energy you wasted


Guest

Mon Feb 04, 2019 5:45 pm   



On Monday, February 4, 2019 at 10:31:15 AM UTC-5, John Larkin wrote:
Quote:
On Mon, 4 Feb 2019 09:40:14 -0500, bitrex <user_at_example.net> wrote:

On 02/04/2019 09:17 AM, gnuarm.deletethisbit_at_gmail.com wrote:
On Monday, February 4, 2019 at 9:08:33 AM UTC-5, Cursitor Doom wrote:
Those batteries just aren't up to it.

No, in the winter they get down! I'll be sure to check on this when I take my next 1500 mile trip. lol


The comments on ZeroHedge are usually worth a laugh though, they're
always from the usual type of comments-dude, who posts on ZeroHedge all
day AND claims to get all the hottest chicks

Is the Fortune article polluted because it's linked from Zero?

Do Teslas run just as well below 0F?


Just as well as what? Mine seemed to run fine until the snow covered the camera lenses and I couldn't use autopilot anymore. I had to stop and wipe them off.

This guy cracks me up. He is in Norway where they get some snow from time to time. He has a number of videos where he really abuses his cars in snow. In one he's going up a hill with a Hummer. This one is tame by comparison.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6cNEbA8CqYs


This guy is a bit more rational and shows how the regenerative braking helps on slippery roads.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQ-3C772Fuc


Rick C.

-- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209


Guest

Mon Feb 04, 2019 5:45 pm   



On Monday, February 4, 2019 at 11:22:48 AM UTC-5, bitrex wrote:
Quote:
On 02/04/2019 10:31 AM, John Larkin wrote:
On Mon, 4 Feb 2019 09:40:14 -0500, bitrex <user_at_example.net> wrote:

On 02/04/2019 09:17 AM, gnuarm.deletethisbit_at_gmail.com wrote:
On Monday, February 4, 2019 at 9:08:33 AM UTC-5, Cursitor Doom wrote:
Those batteries just aren't up to it.

No, in the winter they get down! I'll be sure to check on this when I take my next 1500 mile trip. lol


The comments on ZeroHedge are usually worth a laugh though, they're
always from the usual type of comments-dude, who posts on ZeroHedge all
day AND claims to get all the hottest chicks

Is the Fortune article polluted because it's linked from Zero?

Do Teslas run just as well below 0F?



Can't speak to the Tesla but the only time my Volt got seriously grumpy
was one morning when it was -7 F at 6:30 AM, there was a "Propulsion
Power Reduced" message and acceleration was sluggish for about 2 minutes
until everything got warmed up.

Since the Volt has a gas-burner too in very cold weather when the car is
not plugged in it will come up for a minute or two on start to assist in
cabin heating and quickly bringing the battery coolant loop up to
nominal operating temperature, at around 30-32 degrees F for "Auto"
setting and about 24-25 degrees F for "Deferred" setting.

More energy-efficient in toto than draining the relatively small pack
that car has down to get everything up and moving


Wait, you are saying it runs the ICE solely to heat the cabin? How the heck is that better than using electricity...? Oh, I guess because the engine is normally only 25% efficient generating 75% waste heat, running it just to generate the waste heat really isn't much different... except that you aren't getting any use out of the 25%.


Rick C.

-+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

bitrex
Guest

Mon Feb 04, 2019 5:45 pm   



On 02/04/2019 11:11 AM, Tom Gardner wrote:
Quote:
On 04/02/19 14:58, bitrex wrote:

"Range" meters don't show actual SoC they're running-average estimates
of recent driving history that factor in everything including
temperature and terrain so yeah if you try you probably can "lose"
half your range

The same is true of my 2003 Toyota's petrol range
display (not meter). Sometimes I gain range.

Now I park on a ~10% slope, so it isn't surprising
that the petrol meter gives an invalid low reading.
I can understand that.

What's annoying is that once I'm back on the level,
the meter reading does not change back to a useful
value, not even after I have switched the engine
off and on again. But if I return to the car after
a few hours, some pixie has put a useful amount of
petrol in the car.

So now I'm left having to interpret not a meter
reading (easy) but double-guessing firmware
designers' concept of how munchkins might interpret
the reading.

I long to return to the time when my fuel gauge
had a dial reading Roentgens/hour. Yes, without
any damping it flapped all over the shop, but I
can use my Mk1 eyeball to average, dammit.


Sometimes if you use the OBDII scanner you can pull raw
data from fuel level or other sensors over that diagnostics link
before it hits any ECU processing for the dash display.

A "real fuel" gauge seems like a good weekend project, maybe make
it a VFD bargraph display or something cool like that!

bitrex
Guest

Mon Feb 04, 2019 5:45 pm   



On 02/04/2019 10:31 AM, John Larkin wrote:
Quote:
On Mon, 4 Feb 2019 09:40:14 -0500, bitrex <user_at_example.net> wrote:

On 02/04/2019 09:17 AM, gnuarm.deletethisbit_at_gmail.com wrote:
On Monday, February 4, 2019 at 9:08:33 AM UTC-5, Cursitor Doom wrote:
Those batteries just aren't up to it.

No, in the winter they get down! I'll be sure to check on this when I take my next 1500 mile trip. lol


The comments on ZeroHedge are usually worth a laugh though, they're
always from the usual type of comments-dude, who posts on ZeroHedge all
day AND claims to get all the hottest chicks

Is the Fortune article polluted because it's linked from Zero?

Do Teslas run just as well below 0F?



Can't speak to the Tesla but the only time my Volt got seriously grumpy
was one morning when it was -7 F at 6:30 AM, there was a "Propulsion
Power Reduced" message and acceleration was sluggish for about 2 minutes
until everything got warmed up.

Since the Volt has a gas-burner too in very cold weather when the car is
not plugged in it will come up for a minute or two on start to assist in
cabin heating and quickly bringing the battery coolant loop up to
nominal operating temperature, at around 30-32 degrees F for "Auto"
setting and about 24-25 degrees F for "Deferred" setting.

More energy-efficient in toto than draining the relatively small pack
that car has down to get everything up and moving

Tom Gardner
Guest

Mon Feb 04, 2019 5:45 pm   



On 04/02/19 14:58, bitrex wrote:

Quote:
"Range" meters don't show actual SoC they're running-average estimates of recent
driving history that factor in everything including temperature and terrain so
yeah if you try you probably can "lose" half your range


The same is true of my 2003 Toyota's petrol range
display (not meter). Sometimes I gain range.

Now I park on a ~10% slope, so it isn't surprising
that the petrol meter gives an invalid low reading.
I can understand that.

What's annoying is that once I'm back on the level,
the meter reading does not change back to a useful
value, not even after I have switched the engine
off and on again. But if I return to the car after
a few hours, some pixie has put a useful amount of
petrol in the car.

So now I'm left having to interpret not a meter
reading (easy) but double-guessing firmware
designers' concept of how munchkins might interpret
the reading.

I long to return to the time when my fuel gauge
had a dial reading Roentgens/hour. Yes, without
any damping it flapped all over the shop, but I
can use my Mk1 eyeball to average, dammit.

bitrex
Guest

Mon Feb 04, 2019 5:45 pm   



On 02/04/2019 11:36 AM, gnuarm.deletethisbit_at_gmail.com wrote:
Quote:
On Monday, February 4, 2019 at 11:22:48 AM UTC-5, bitrex wrote:
On 02/04/2019 10:31 AM, John Larkin wrote:
On Mon, 4 Feb 2019 09:40:14 -0500, bitrex <user_at_example.net> wrote:

On 02/04/2019 09:17 AM, gnuarm.deletethisbit_at_gmail.com wrote:
On Monday, February 4, 2019 at 9:08:33 AM UTC-5, Cursitor Doom wrote:
Those batteries just aren't up to it.

No, in the winter they get down! I'll be sure to check on this when I take my next 1500 mile trip. lol


The comments on ZeroHedge are usually worth a laugh though, they're
always from the usual type of comments-dude, who posts on ZeroHedge all
day AND claims to get all the hottest chicks

Is the Fortune article polluted because it's linked from Zero?

Do Teslas run just as well below 0F?



Can't speak to the Tesla but the only time my Volt got seriously grumpy
was one morning when it was -7 F at 6:30 AM, there was a "Propulsion
Power Reduced" message and acceleration was sluggish for about 2 minutes
until everything got warmed up.

Since the Volt has a gas-burner too in very cold weather when the car is
not plugged in it will come up for a minute or two on start to assist in
cabin heating and quickly bringing the battery coolant loop up to
nominal operating temperature, at around 30-32 degrees F for "Auto"
setting and about 24-25 degrees F for "Deferred" setting.

More energy-efficient in toto than draining the relatively small pack
that car has down to get everything up and moving

Wait, you are saying it runs the ICE solely to heat the cabin? How the heck is that better than using electricity...? Oh, I guess because the engine is normally only 25% efficient generating 75% waste heat, running it just to generate the waste heat really isn't much different... except that you aren't getting any use out of the 25%.


Rick C.

-+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209


Yeah it runs it for like a minute or two when you start the car in those
temps and comes up for another minute or two every 20 or so when
driving, a pretty negligible amount of fuel.

It's hooked into the generator feeding the battery, too when it's acting
as a cabin/coolant loop heater at those times to recapture a bit of the loss

bitrex
Guest

Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:45 pm   



On 02/04/2019 11:43 AM, bitrex wrote:

Quote:
Wait, you are saying it runs the ICE solely to heat the cabin?  How
the heck is that better than using electricity...?  Oh, I guess
because the engine is normally only 25% efficient generating 75% waste
heat, running it just to generate the waste heat really isn't much
different... except that you aren't getting any use out of the 25%.


   Rick C.

   -+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209


Yeah it runs it for like a minute or two when you start the car in those
temps and comes up for another minute or two every 20 or so when
driving, a pretty negligible amount of fuel.

It's hooked into the generator feeding the battery, too when it's acting
as a cabin/coolant loop heater at those times to recapture a bit of the
loss


I've driven around a thousand miles in January in very cold temps where
the engine does that routinely every drive it's burned like a gallon or
two that way total


Guest

Tue Feb 05, 2019 4:45 am   



On Monday, February 4, 2019 at 6:53:36 PM UTC-8, Martin Riddle wrote:
Quote:
On Mon, 04 Feb 2019 07:31:08 -0800, John Larkin
jjlarkin_at_highlandtechnology.com> wrote:

On Mon, 4 Feb 2019 09:40:14 -0500, bitrex <user_at_example.net> wrote:

On 02/04/2019 09:17 AM, gnuarm.deletethisbit_at_gmail.com wrote:
On Monday, February 4, 2019 at 9:08:33 AM UTC-5, Cursitor Doom wrote:
Those batteries just aren't up to it.

No, in the winter they get down! I'll be sure to check on this when I take my next 1500 mile trip. lol


The comments on ZeroHedge are usually worth a laugh though, they're
always from the usual type of comments-dude, who posts on ZeroHedge all
day AND claims to get all the hottest chicks

Is the Fortune article polluted because it's linked from Zero?

Do Teslas run just as well below 0F?

The internal battery heaters are about 1500kw. So with out a super
charger your dead in the water.

Cheers


I am sure you mean 1500w. I run the heater with my Leaf on Level 1 only all the time. It's warm enough when outside is freezing.

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