EDAboard.com | EDAboard.de | EDAboard.co.uk | WTWH Media

efficiencies of appliance 3-phase brushless motors?

Ask a question - edaboard.com

elektroda.net NewsGroups Forum Index - Electronic for beginners - efficiencies of appliance 3-phase brushless motors?

Goto page 1, 2  Next


Guest

Wed Jan 09, 2019 9:45 pm   



Hello,

What is the ballpark efficiency range of washing machine or clothes dryer three-phase 110-volt AC motors?

I'm debating tearing a broken washing machine apart for the motor and controllers but was curious if the efficiency is too low to bother.

Thanks,

Michael

Look165
Guest

Wed Jan 09, 2019 9:45 pm   



The efficiency only depends on the motor, 1 or 3 phases.

The only difference is the power consumption on each phase.

mrdarrett_at_gmail.com a écrit le 09/01/2019 à 20:48 :
Quote:
Hello,

What is the ballpark efficiency range of washing machine or clothes dryer three-phase 110-volt AC motors?

I'm debating tearing a broken washing machine apart for the motor and controllers but was curious if the efficiency is too low to bother.

Thanks,

Michael



Guest

Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:45 pm   



On Wednesday, January 9, 2019 at 12:30:54 PM UTC-8, Look165 wrote:
Quote:
The efficiency only depends on the motor, 1 or 3 phases.

The only difference is the power consumption on each phase.

mrdarrett_at_gmail.com a écrit le 09/01/2019 à 20:48 :


....


How does the efficiency compare with brushless permanent magnet motors?

Michael

Terminal_Crazy
Guest

Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:45 pm   



In article <4a6b10ed-3322-4937-9413-7c33cf16308d_at_googlegroups.com>,
<mrdarrett_at_gmail.com> wrote:
Quote:
Hello,

What is the ballpark efficiency range of washing machine or clothes
dryer three-phase 110-volt AC motors?

I'm debating tearing a broken washing machine apart for the motor and
controllers but was curious if the efficiency is too low to bother.

Thanks,

Michael

Ours in the UK are 220/240V but get my underpants clean in 1 wash so I'd
say 100%

--

terminal_crazy_at_sand-hill.uk


Guest

Thu Jan 10, 2019 4:45 am   



On Wednesday, January 9, 2019 at 1:26:09 PM UTC-8, Terminal_Crazy wrote:
Quote:
In article <4a6b10ed-3322-4937-9413-7c33cf16308d_at_googlegroups.com>,
mrdarrett_at_gmail.com> wrote:
Hello,

What is the ballpark efficiency range of washing machine or clothes
dryer three-phase 110-volt AC motors?

I'm debating tearing a broken washing machine apart for the motor and
controllers but was curious if the efficiency is too low to bother.

Thanks,

Michael
Ours in the UK are 220/240V but get my underpants clean in 1 wash so I'd
say 100%

--

terminal_crazy_at_sand-hill.uk


You have electricity in the UK?! No way! Surprised

Look165
Guest

Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:45 am   



100% efficiency doesn't exist.
A standard motor (not professional model) can barely be above 80-90%.

mrdarrett_at_gmail.com a écrit le 10/01/2019 à 04:31 :
Quote:
On Wednesday, January 9, 2019 at 1:26:09 PM UTC-8, Terminal_Crazy wrote:
In article <4a6b10ed-3322-4937-9413-7c33cf16308d_at_googlegroups.com>,
mrdarrett_at_gmail.com> wrote:
Hello,
What is the ballpark efficiency range of washing machine or clothes
dryer three-phase 110-volt AC motors?
I'm debating tearing a broken washing machine apart for the motor and
controllers but was curious if the efficiency is too low to bother.
Thanks,
Michael
Ours in the UK are 220/240V but get my underpants clean in 1 wash so I'd
say 100%

--

terminal_crazy_at_sand-hill.uk

You have electricity in the UK?! No way! Surprised



Guest

Thu Jan 10, 2019 5:45 pm   



On Thursday, January 10, 2019 at 1:25:05 AM UTC-8, Look165 wrote:
Quote:
100% efficiency doesn't exist.
A standard motor (not professional model) can barely be above 80-90%.


Standard motor? What's that?

Looks like 3-ph motors run from 70% @ 1/4hp to around 88% at 3hp. I'd forgotten I had this in my notes.
http://fl600.usmotors.com/publication/?i=329526#{%22issue_id%22:329526,%22page%22:22}

I was curious how it compared with brushless motors but I guess this will do.

Universal motors with brushes run around 30-60% efficient.
https://www.johnsonelectric.com/en/product-technology/motion/ac-motors/universal-motors?series=universal-ac-motors

The "infinitely inefficient" shaded pole motor runs around 10-20% efficient.

Michael

Look165
Guest

Thu Jan 10, 2019 6:45 pm   



The ones you have at home.

mrdarrett_at_gmail.com a écrit le 10/01/2019 à 17:35 :
Quote:
On Thursday, January 10, 2019 at 1:25:05 AM UTC-8, Look165 wrote:
100% efficiency doesn't exist.
A standard motor (not professional model) can barely be above 80-90%.

Standard motor? What's that?

Looks like 3-ph motors run from 70% @ 1/4hp to around 88% at 3hp. I'd forgotten I had this in my notes.
http://fl600.usmotors.com/publication/?i=329526#{%22issue_id%22:329526,%22page%22:22}

I was curious how it compared with brushless motors but I guess this will do.

Universal motors with brushes run around 30-60% efficient.
https://www.johnsonelectric.com/en/product-technology/motion/ac-motors/universal-motors?series=universal-ac-motors

The "infinitely inefficient" shaded pole motor runs around 10-20% efficient.

Michael



Guest

Thu Jan 10, 2019 7:45 pm   



On Thursday, January 10, 2019 at 9:23:52 AM UTC-8, Look165 wrote:
Quote:
The ones you have at home.


A typical American home may have:
- Shaded pole motors on desk fans and circulating air for the refrigerator. (I was really upset when I found the old broken dishwasher in my parents' home had a giant shaded pole motor for the water pump.)
- Universal motors for dough mixers, blenders, drills and circular saws
- 3-phase motors driven by control electronics for washing machines
- brushless motors for remote-controlled model aircraft, and possibly for modern appliances

Michael


Guest

Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:45 am   



On Thu, 10 Jan 2019 09:52:03 -0800 (PST), mrdarrett_at_gmail.com wrote:

Quote:
On Thursday, January 10, 2019 at 9:23:52 AM UTC-8, Look165 wrote:
The ones you have at home.


A typical American home may have:
- Shaded pole motors on desk fans and circulating air for the refrigerator. (I was really upset when I found the old broken dishwasher in my parents' home had a giant shaded pole motor for the water pump.)
- Universal motors for dough mixers, blenders, drills and circular saws
- 3-phase motors driven by control electronics for washing machines
- brushless motors for remote-controlled model aircraft, and possibly for modern appliances

Michael

The reason for the big shaded pole pump motor is because they draw
pretty much the same current when stalled as when running. So if the
design allows sufficient cooling without a fan then if the pump motor
is stalled with food debris or a fork or something it won't burn up.
Granted, there are other ways to deal with stalled motors but the
shaded pole solution is simple and cheap. Except that you pay more for
the power to run the motor. This can be a wash though, so to speak.
Just save all your dirty dishes until the weather gets cold when the
extra heat from the pump motor will warm your house. Actually, I
supose a clever design would use the heat from the pump motor to help
warm the washing water.
Eric

Look165
Guest

Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:45 am   



I wonder how a fork can finish in the pump !

etpm_at_whidbey.com a écrit le 10/01/2019 à 23:53 :
Quote:
On Thu, 10 Jan 2019 09:52:03 -0800 (PST), mrdarrett_at_gmail.com wrote:

On Thursday, January 10, 2019 at 9:23:52 AM UTC-8, Look165 wrote:
The ones you have at home.

A typical American home may have:
- Shaded pole motors on desk fans and circulating air for the refrigerator. (I was really upset when I found the old broken dishwasher in my parents' home had a giant shaded pole motor for the water pump.)
- Universal motors for dough mixers, blenders, drills and circular saws
- 3-phase motors driven by control electronics for washing machines
- brushless motors for remote-controlled model aircraft, and possibly for modern appliances

Michael

The reason for the big shaded pole pump motor is because they draw
pretty much the same current when stalled as when running. So if the
design allows sufficient cooling without a fan then if the pump motor
is stalled with food debris or a fork or something it won't burn up.
Granted, there are other ways to deal with stalled motors but the
shaded pole solution is simple and cheap. Except that you pay more for
the power to run the motor. This can be a wash though, so to speak.
Just save all your dirty dishes until the weather gets cold when the
extra heat from the pump motor will warm your house. Actually, I
supose a clever design would use the heat from the pump motor to help
warm the washing water.
Eric


default
Guest

Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:45 am   



On Thu, 10 Jan 2019 09:52:03 -0800 (PST), mrdarrett_at_gmail.com wrote:

Quote:
On Thursday, January 10, 2019 at 9:23:52 AM UTC-8, Look165 wrote:
The ones you have at home.


A typical American home may have:
- Shaded pole motors on desk fans and circulating air for the refrigerator. (I was really upset when I found the old broken dishwasher in my parents' home had a giant shaded pole motor for the water pump.)
- Universal motors for dough mixers, blenders, drills and circular saws
- 3-phase motors driven by control electronics for washing machines
- brushless motors for remote-controlled model aircraft, and possibly for modern appliances

Michael

Lots of air conditioners are moving to speed controlled three phase
compressor motors these days. They've been in use for large
commercial AC's for awhile now, and plenty of the newer heat pumps use
them. There's at least one window unit that uses a VFD and three
phase motor.


Guest

Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:45 am   



On Thursday, January 10, 2019 at 5:02:12 PM UTC-8, default wrote:
Quote:
On Thu, 10 Jan 2019 09:52:03 -0800 (PST), mrdarrett_at_gmail.com wrote:

On Thursday, January 10, 2019 at 9:23:52 AM UTC-8, Look165 wrote:
The ones you have at home.


A typical American home may have:
- Shaded pole motors on desk fans and circulating air for the refrigerator. (I was really upset when I found the old broken dishwasher in my parents' home had a giant shaded pole motor for the water pump.)
- Universal motors for dough mixers, blenders, drills and circular saws
- 3-phase motors driven by control electronics for washing machines
- brushless motors for remote-controlled model aircraft, and possibly for modern appliances

Michael

Lots of air conditioners are moving to speed controlled three phase
compressor motors these days. They've been in use for large
commercial AC's for awhile now, and plenty of the newer heat pumps use
them. There's at least one window unit that uses a VFD and three
phase motor.


Oh that's a surprise! Are they fairly close in efficiency to the electronically commutated / brushless motors then?

Are the 3-phase motors run in open-loop, or do they require precise feedback control like the brushless motors need?

Window A/C unit?! Which???

Thanks,

Michael

danny burstein
Guest

Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:45 am   



In <3iqf3ehsptonbtlf27vd0nqqptq6dd2um3_at_4ax.com> default <default_at_defaulter.net> writes:

Quote:
Lots of air conditioners are moving to speed controlled three phase
compressor motors these days. They've been in use for large
commercial AC's for awhile now, and plenty of the newer heat pumps use
them. There's at least one window unit that uses a VFD and three
phase motor.


Dunno about it being three phase, but here you go:

http://www.lg.com/us/air-conditioners/lg-LW1517IVSM



--
_____________________________________________________
Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key
dannyb_at_panix.com
[to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]


Guest

Fri Jan 11, 2019 7:45 am   



On Thursday, January 10, 2019 at 6:41:12 PM UTC-8, danny burstein wrote:
Quote:
In <3iqf3ehsptonbtlf27vd0nqqptq6dd2um3_at_4ax.com> default <default_at_defaulter.net> writes:

Lots of air conditioners are moving to speed controlled three phase
compressor motors these days. They've been in use for large
commercial AC's for awhile now, and plenty of the newer heat pumps use
them. There's at least one window unit that uses a VFD and three
phase motor.

Dunno about it being three phase, but here you go:

http://www.lg.com/us/air-conditioners/lg-LW1517IVSM


Oh neato! Even better; it's Brushless DC (BLDC)!

"... thanks to LG's unique BLDC motor and dual inverter compressor..."

Goto page 1, 2  Next

elektroda.net NewsGroups Forum Index - Electronic for beginners - efficiencies of appliance 3-phase brushless motors?

Ask a question - edaboard.com

Arabic version Bulgarian version Catalan version Czech version Danish version German version Greek version English version Spanish version Finnish version French version Hindi version Croatian version Indonesian version Italian version Hebrew version Japanese version Korean version Lithuanian version Latvian version Dutch version Norwegian version Polish version Portuguese version Romanian version Russian version Slovak version Slovenian version Serbian version Swedish version Tagalog version Ukrainian version Vietnamese version Chinese version Turkish version
EDAboard.com map