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David L. Jones
Guest
Tue Jan 10, 2012 8:47 am
Just thought some might be interested in hearing our recent guest on
our Amp Hour radio show, Dr Howard Johnson of "Handbook of Black
Magic" fame:
http://www.theamphour.com/2012/01/10/the-amp-hour-77-winsome-waveform-wizardry/
Lots of history of the book, signal integrity, Gigabit Ethernet
development, 90 degree PCB bends, audiophoolery, and a whole bunch of
other talk over almost 1 1/12 hours.
Dave.
Guest
Tue Jan 10, 2012 9:37 am
On Mon, 9 Jan 2012 22:47:01 -0800 (PST), "David L. Jones"
<altzone_at_gmail.com> wrote:
Quote:
Just thought some might be interested in hearing our recent guest on
our Amp Hour radio show, Dr Howard Johnson of "Handbook of Black
Magic" fame:
http://www.theamphour.com/2012/01/10/the-amp-hour-77-winsome-waveform-wizardry/
Lots of history of the book, signal integrity, Gigabit Ethernet
development, 90 degree PCB bends, audiophoolery, and a whole bunch of
other talk over almost 1 1/12 hours.
Dave.
That Dr. Howard looks awfly familiar !
He also lives awfly close to us here in the PNW...
Also saw a link that shows your new videos.
Thx David !
boB
Bill Sloman
Guest
Tue Jan 10, 2012 11:28 am
On Jan 10, 7:47 am, "David L. Jones" <altz...@gmail.com> wrote:
Quote:
Just thought some might be interested in hearing our recent guest on
our Amp Hour radio show, Dr Howard Johnson of "Handbook of Black
Magic" fame:http://www.theamphour.com/2012/01/10/the-amp-hour-77-winsome-waveform...
Lots of history of the book, signal integrity, Gigabit Ethernet
development, 90 degree PCB bends, audiophoolery, and a whole bunch of
other talk over almost 1 1/12 hours.
"Black Magic" is more notorious than famous. I own both it and it's
follow-up, and both have got some useful content but they are badly
organised and what useful content they do contain is hard to find.
The field is still waiting for a decent textbook on high speed circuit
design and layout.
This is one of the few matters on which John Larkin and I seem to
agree.
--
Bill Sloman, Nijmegen
John Larkin
Guest
Tue Jan 10, 2012 4:22 pm
On Tue, 10 Jan 2012 01:28:22 -0800 (PST), Bill Sloman
<bill.sloman_at_ieee.org> wrote:
Quote:
On Jan 10, 7:47 am, "David L. Jones" <altz...@gmail.com> wrote:
Just thought some might be interested in hearing our recent guest on
our Amp Hour radio show, Dr Howard Johnson of "Handbook of Black
Magic" fame:http://www.theamphour.com/2012/01/10/the-amp-hour-77-winsome-waveform...
Lots of history of the book, signal integrity, Gigabit Ethernet
development, 90 degree PCB bends, audiophoolery, and a whole bunch of
other talk over almost 1 1/12 hours.
"Black Magic" is more notorious than famous. I own both it and it's
follow-up, and both have got some useful content but they are badly
organised and what useful content they do contain is hard to find.
The field is still waiting for a decent textbook on high speed circuit
design and layout.
This is one of the few matters on which John Larkin and I seem to
agree.
Yeah, his book is half nonsense. If you can tell which half is which,
you don't need the book. His ideas on "return currents" and bypassing
are absurd. And the writing is dreadful.
His articles in EDN (or ED, whatever) are horrible too. He ran out of
material years ago, but he keeps writing.
I started highlighting the really bad, flat silly parts of "Black
Magic" but gave up less then halfway through.
John
John Devereux
Guest
Tue Jan 10, 2012 4:55 pm
Robert Macy <robert.a.macy_at_gmail.com> writes:
Quote:
On Jan 10, 2:28Â am, Bill Sloman <bill.slo...@ieee.org> wrote:
On Jan 10, 7:47Â am, "David L. Jones" <altz...@gmail.com> wrote:
Just thought some might be interested in hearing our recent guest on
our Amp Hour radio show, Dr Howard Johnson of "Handbook of Black
Magic" fame:http://www.theamphour.com/2012/01/10/the-amp-hour-77-winsome-waveform...
Lots of history of the book, signal integrity, Gigabit Ethernet
development, 90 degree PCB bends, audiophoolery, and a whole bunch of
other talk over almost 1 1/12 hours.
"Black Magic" is more notorious than famous. I own both it and it's
follow-up, and both have got some useful content but they are badly
organised and what useful content they do contain is hard to find.
The field is still waiting for a decent textbook on high speed circuit
design and layout.
This is one of the few matters on which John Larkin and I seem to
agree.
--
Bill Sloman, Nijmegen
Perhaps, it is time for the first ever 'conference' book written by a
consortium of engineers/scientists.
Put my name in for proffreading.
Great idea. Perhaps John Larkin, Jim Thompson and Bill Sloman could
collaborate on it.
Sure that will work out well... :)
--
John Devereux
Jim Thompson
Guest
Tue Jan 10, 2012 5:21 pm
On Tue, 10 Jan 2012 15:55:53 +0000, John Devereux
<john_at_devereux.me.uk> wrote:
Quote:
Robert Macy <robert.a.macy_at_gmail.com> writes:
On Jan 10, 2:28 am, Bill Sloman <bill.slo...@ieee.org> wrote:
On Jan 10, 7:47 am, "David L. Jones" <altz...@gmail.com> wrote:
Just thought some might be interested in hearing our recent guest on
our Amp Hour radio show, Dr Howard Johnson of "Handbook of Black
Magic" fame:http://www.theamphour.com/2012/01/10/the-amp-hour-77-winsome-waveform...
Lots of history of the book, signal integrity, Gigabit Ethernet
development, 90 degree PCB bends, audiophoolery, and a whole bunch of
other talk over almost 1 1/12 hours.
"Black Magic" is more notorious than famous. I own both it and it's
follow-up, and both have got some useful content but they are badly
organised and what useful content they do contain is hard to find.
The field is still waiting for a decent textbook on high speed circuit
design and layout.
This is one of the few matters on which John Larkin and I seem to
agree.
--
Bill Sloman, Nijmegen
Perhaps, it is time for the first ever 'conference' book written by a
consortium of engineers/scientists.
Put my name in for proffreading. :)
Great idea. Perhaps John Larkin, Jim Thompson and Bill Sloman could
collaborate on it.
Sure that will work out well...
Yep. I'm the only one that's armed
...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at
http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |
I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
Robert Macy
Guest
Tue Jan 10, 2012 5:23 pm
On Jan 10, 2:28 am, Bill Sloman <bill.slo...@ieee.org> wrote:
Quote:
On Jan 10, 7:47 am, "David L. Jones" <altz...@gmail.com> wrote:
Just thought some might be interested in hearing our recent guest on
our Amp Hour radio show, Dr Howard Johnson of "Handbook of Black
Magic" fame:http://www.theamphour.com/2012/01/10/the-amp-hour-77-winsome-waveform...
Lots of history of the book, signal integrity, Gigabit Ethernet
development, 90 degree PCB bends, audiophoolery, and a whole bunch of
other talk over almost 1 1/12 hours.
"Black Magic" is more notorious than famous. I own both it and it's
follow-up, and both have got some useful content but they are badly
organised and what useful content they do contain is hard to find.
The field is still waiting for a decent textbook on high speed circuit
design and layout.
This is one of the few matters on which John Larkin and I seem to
agree.
--
Bill Sloman, Nijmegen
Perhaps, it is time for the first ever 'conference' book written by a
consortium of engineers/scientists.
Put my name in for proffreading.
John Larkin
Guest
Tue Jan 10, 2012 5:23 pm
On Tue, 10 Jan 2012 07:23:01 -0800 (PST), Robert Macy
<robert.a.macy_at_gmail.com> wrote:
Quote:
On Jan 10, 2:28 am, Bill Sloman <bill.slo...@ieee.org> wrote:
On Jan 10, 7:47 am, "David L. Jones" <altz...@gmail.com> wrote:
Just thought some might be interested in hearing our recent guest on
our Amp Hour radio show, Dr Howard Johnson of "Handbook of Black
Magic" fame:http://www.theamphour.com/2012/01/10/the-amp-hour-77-winsome-waveform...
Lots of history of the book, signal integrity, Gigabit Ethernet
development, 90 degree PCB bends, audiophoolery, and a whole bunch of
other talk over almost 1 1/12 hours.
"Black Magic" is more notorious than famous. I own both it and it's
follow-up, and both have got some useful content but they are badly
organised and what useful content they do contain is hard to find.
The field is still waiting for a decent textbook on high speed circuit
design and layout.
This is one of the few matters on which John Larkin and I seem to
agree.
--
Bill Sloman, Nijmegen
Perhaps, it is time for the first ever 'conference' book written by a
consortium of engineers/scientists.
Put my name in for proffreading.
Jim Williams' two great books on analog design were like that, each
chapter by someone else. Pease tried to imitate that, but didn't do it
very well.
John
Jeroen Belleman
Guest
Tue Jan 10, 2012 5:29 pm
John Larkin wrote:
Quote:
On Tue, 10 Jan 2012 01:28:22 -0800 (PST), Bill Sloman
bill.sloman_at_ieee.org> wrote:
On Jan 10, 7:47 am, "David L. Jones" <altz...@gmail.com> wrote:
Just thought some might be interested in hearing our recent guest on
our Amp Hour radio show, Dr Howard Johnson of "Handbook of Black
Magic" fame[...]
Yeah, his book is half nonsense. If you can tell which half is which,
you don't need the book. His ideas on "return currents" and bypassing
are absurd. And the writing is dreadful.
I haven't got the book handy, but I'll pick it up tomorrow or so.
Do you mind expounding on why his "return currents" make no sense?
Did he mean something different from image currents?
Jeroen Belleman
John Larkin
Guest
Tue Jan 10, 2012 5:50 pm
On Tue, 10 Jan 2012 17:29:35 +0100, Jeroen Belleman
<jeroen_at_nospam.please> wrote:
Quote:
John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 10 Jan 2012 01:28:22 -0800 (PST), Bill Sloman
bill.sloman_at_ieee.org> wrote:
On Jan 10, 7:47 am, "David L. Jones" <altz...@gmail.com> wrote:
Just thought some might be interested in hearing our recent guest on
our Amp Hour radio show, Dr Howard Johnson of "Handbook of Black
Magic" fame[...]
Yeah, his book is half nonsense. If you can tell which half is which,
you don't need the book. His ideas on "return currents" and bypassing
are absurd. And the writing is dreadful.
I haven't got the book handy, but I'll pick it up tomorrow or so.
Do you mind expounding on why his "return currents" make no sense?
Did he mean something different from image currents?
He says that a transmission-line pcb trace must always be "referenced"
to the same "return current" plane it started with and shouldn't pass
through vias to become referenced to a different plane, or else the
return currents will get confused or go on strike or something. If
that were true, 98% or the multilayer boards on Earth would quit
working.
He also says that you should add bypass caps and stitching vias to
conduct these return currents whenever a trace does via to a different
"reference plane."
All silly.
John
Bob
Guest
Tue Jan 10, 2012 6:01 pm
> Put my name in for proffreading.

- <<<<< Now *THIS* I like
Jim Thompson
Guest
Tue Jan 10, 2012 6:06 pm
On Mon, 9 Jan 2012 22:47:01 -0800 (PST), "David L. Jones"
<altzone_at_gmail.com> wrote:
Quote:
Just thought some might be interested in hearing our recent guest on
our Amp Hour radio show, Dr Howard Johnson of "Handbook of Black
Magic" fame:
http://www.theamphour.com/2012/01/10/the-amp-hour-77-winsome-waveform-wizardry/
Lots of history of the book, signal integrity, Gigabit Ethernet
development, 90 degree PCB bends, audiophoolery, and a whole bunch of
other talk over almost 1 1/12 hours.
Dave.
Howard Johnson? Wasn't that a restaurant that you went to for clam
strips ?
...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at
http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |
I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
Phil Hobbs
Guest
Tue Jan 10, 2012 6:09 pm
On 01/10/2012 01:47 AM, David L. Jones wrote:
Quote:
Just thought some might be interested in hearing our recent guest on
our Amp Hour radio show, Dr Howard Johnson of "Handbook of Black
Magic" fame:
http://www.theamphour.com/2012/01/10/the-amp-hour-77-winsome-waveform-wizardry/
Lots of history of the book, signal integrity, Gigabit Ethernet
development, 90 degree PCB bends, audiophoolery, and a whole bunch of
other talk over almost 1 1/12 hours.
Dave.
HJ has a mixture of good stuff and complete nonsense.
I hope you grilled him a bit about his less sensible stuff, like that
hilariously erroneous video where he attempts to use electrostatics to
demonstrate that ground currents want to flow under traces. Of course,
the impedance levels are millions of times too high for inductance to be
a factor in that demo, but never mind. Have a look at
http://www.sigcon.com/Pubs/news/8_08.htm for the whole ridiculous thing.
(The current path is determined by corona discharge at the sharp corners
of the metal squares--if you look at all closely, you'll see that the
discharges always want to go out the corners of the squares.)
Cheers
Phil Hobbs
--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
160 North State Road #203
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510
845-480-2058
hobbs at electrooptical dot net
http://electrooptical.net
John Larkin
Guest
Tue Jan 10, 2012 7:09 pm
On Mon, 9 Jan 2012 22:47:01 -0800 (PST), "David L. Jones"
<altzone_at_gmail.com> wrote:
Quote:
Just thought some might be interested in hearing our recent guest on
our Amp Hour radio show, Dr Howard Johnson of "Handbook of Black
Magic" fame:
http://www.theamphour.com/2012/01/10/the-amp-hour-77-winsome-waveform-wizardry/
Lots of history of the book, signal integrity, Gigabit Ethernet
development, 90 degree PCB bends, audiophoolery, and a whole bunch of
other talk over almost 1 1/12 hours.
Dave.
Did you have to pay him? How much?
John
Jeroen
Guest
Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:41 pm
On 2012-01-10 17:50, John Larkin wrote:
Quote:
On Tue, 10 Jan 2012 17:29:35 +0100, Jeroen Belleman
jeroen_at_nospam.please> wrote:
John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 10 Jan 2012 01:28:22 -0800 (PST), Bill Sloman
bill.sloman_at_ieee.org> wrote:
On Jan 10, 7:47 am, "David L. Jones" <altz...@gmail.com> wrote:
Just thought some might be interested in hearing our recent guest on
our Amp Hour radio show, Dr Howard Johnson of "Handbook of Black
Magic" fame[...]
Yeah, his book is half nonsense. If you can tell which half is which,
you don't need the book. His ideas on "return currents" and bypassing
are absurd. And the writing is dreadful.
I haven't got the book handy, but I'll pick it up tomorrow or so.
Do you mind expounding on why his "return currents" make no sense?
Did he mean something different from image currents?
He says that a transmission-line pcb trace must always be "referenced"
to the same "return current" plane it started with and shouldn't pass
through vias to become referenced to a different plane, or else the
return currents will get confused or go on strike or something. If
that were true, 98% or the multilayer boards on Earth would quit
working.
He also says that you should add bypass caps and stitching vias to
conduct these return currents whenever a trace does via to a different
"reference plane."
All silly.
Ah, yes, I agree with you there. Mostly anyway. Capacitance between
planes should be plenty to take care of that.
I *did* have this amplifier with a ridiculously high gain that
wouldn't keep still with its output trace running over the V+
plane. The problem vanished when I made it run over a GND plane
instead. Then again, there were a few other layout tweaks that
may have contributed to fixing it.
Jeroen Belleman
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