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arlen holder
Guest

Sat Jan 26, 2019 6:45 am   



Do you have experience with "infrared camera detection" on mobile devices?

If so, how do you assess the difference between
o How the infrared camera detection works on a mobile device, versus
o Similar functionality, in almost _any_ digital video camera viewfinder?

Note this question is only about the inherent infrared detection
differences between almost any digital camera ... and these "green-screen"
viewfinder apps.

Today I decided to check an area for hidden cameras and microphones
where the first non-obnoxiousware non-Internet non-GPS-aware
free tool I happened to test was
o Detect Hidden Camera, version 1.9
o (com.techno95.detecthiddencameraandmicrophone)

The way "it" works is pretty simple, apparently, where
o It detects rf emitters using the magnetometer reading, and
o It detects infrared emitters using a "green screen" video viewfinder

Based on an Internet search, these tools abound on both iOS & Android:
<https://knowtechie.com/smartphone-apps-can-help-detect-hidden-cameras-anywhere/>
<https://www.techzac.com/best-hidden-camera-detector-apps-android/>
<http://www.graphictunnel.com/2017/09/best-hidden-camera-detector-apps.html>
etc.

My question for this newsgroup is only about that green-screen viewfinder.
Q: Essentially, other than being "green" - how is it any different from
almost _any_ digital video viewfinder (all of which seem to detect infrared
emissions)?

Fox's Mercantile
Guest

Sat Jan 26, 2019 11:45 am   



On 1/25/19 11:23 PM, arlen holder wrote:
> Do you have experience with "infrared camera detection" on mobile devices?

Go away.

--
"I am a river to my people."
Jeff-1.0
WA6FWi
http:foxsmercantile.com

newshound
Guest

Sat Jan 26, 2019 11:45 am   



On 26/01/2019 10:20, Fox's Mercantile wrote:
Quote:
On 1/25/19 11:23 PM, arlen holder wrote:
Do you have experience with "infrared camera detection" on mobile
devices?

Go away.

+1


arlen holder
Guest

Sat Jan 26, 2019 10:45 pm   



On Sat, 26 Jan 2019 04:20:31 -0600, Fox's Mercantile wrote:
> Go away.

On Sat, 26 Jan 2019 10:35:54 +0000, newshound wrote:
> newshound <newshound_at_stevejqr.plus.com>

Hi Snit,

Why do these two prove, in _every_ post, they own the brain of a child?
o Fox's Mercantile <jdangus_at_att.net> (*also known as "Snit"*)
o newshound <newshound_at_stevejqr.plus.com

It's clear you don't comprehend the technical question.
o But why do you _prove_ your lack of comprehension in every post?

Nomen Nescio
Guest

Sat Jan 26, 2019 10:45 pm   



In article <S_ednbg_JIDtqdHBnZ2dnUU7-U2dnZ2d_at_giganews.com>
Fox's Mercantile <jdangus_at_att.net> wrote:
Quote:

On 1/25/19 11:23 PM, arlen holder wrote:
Do you have experience with "infrared camera detection" on mobile devices?

Go away.

--
"I am a river to my people."
Jeff-1.0
WA6FWi
http:foxsmercantile.com


Big mistake placing your call sign in your sig.

If you're going to get into arguments with people on Usenet, there are
some very mean people who will look you up in the FCC call sign
registry and cause you and your family immense problems. They can go
to a site such as Intelius and with their credit card learn the entire
public record of your life. It has happened again and again on Usenet,
and they guy you're screwing with is one of the sock puppets of a guy
who does such a thing. An American Indian named Eagle made that same
mistake with his call sign. They drove him off from Usenet with
threats to his entire family. Others have suffered the same fate.

It's probably a bit late, but If I were you I'd drop that call sign
from your sig file.

Fox's Mercantile
Guest

Sat Jan 26, 2019 10:45 pm   



On 1/26/19 3:26 PM, Nomen Nescio wrote:
Quote:
It's probably a bit late, but If I were you I'd drop that call sign
from your sig file.


I appreciate the concern, but I ain't afraid of assholes on Usenet.


--
"I am a river to my people."
Jeff-1.0
WA6FWi
http:foxsmercantile.com

Fox's Mercantile
Guest

Sat Jan 26, 2019 10:45 pm   



On 1/26/19 3:08 PM, arlen holder wrote:
> Hi Snit,

Just like last time, the time before that and the time before that.

You're convinced I'm Snit. I'm not.

What do you do? Jack off in front of your computer thinking how
clever you are?




--
"I am a river to my people."
Jeff-1.0
WA6FWi
http:foxsmercantile.com

Jeff Liebermann
Guest

Sat Jan 26, 2019 11:45 pm   



On Sat, 26 Jan 2019 05:23:34 -0000 (UTC), arlen holder
<arlen_at_arlen.com> wrote:

>o Detect Hidden Camera, version 1.9

Nothing found on the Play store.

>o (com.techno95.detecthiddencameraandmicrophone)

There's nothing by techno95 remaining on the Google Play Store.
However, you can get the APK if you want to live dangerously:
<https://www.apkfollow.com/app/detect-hidden-cameras-and-microphones/com.techno95.detecthiddencameraandmicrophone/>

Let us know when you find a URL that I can use for these. Like most
people, I don't like to waste my time Googling for things that you
could easily provide as a URL.

While you're looking, consider that finding a hidden camera requires
that the camera emits something that you can detect with your
smartphone. That limits it to RF emissions of some sort, magnetic
emissions from the lens auto focus electronics, or IR emissions from
some manner of illuminator. You might to better with a spectrum
analyzer (or RTL-SDR dongle) and look for the camera clock oscillator,
LAN clock frequency, or RF backhaul frequency. CCTV cameras are often
powered by 24VAC. Maybe look for a 60Hz AC power field where one
would normally not be expected.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl_at_cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

John Robertson
Guest

Sun Jan 27, 2019 12:45 am   



On 2019/01/26 1:46 p.m., Jeff Liebermann wrote:
Quote:
On Sat, 26 Jan 2019 05:23:34 -0000 (UTC), arlen holder
arlen_at_arlen.com> wrote:

o Detect Hidden Camera, version 1.9

Nothing found on the Play store.

o (com.techno95.detecthiddencameraandmicrophone)

There's nothing by techno95 remaining on the Google Play Store.
However, you can get the APK if you want to live dangerously:
https://www.apkfollow.com/app/detect-hidden-cameras-and-microphones/com.techno95.detecthiddencameraandmicrophone/

Let us know when you find a URL that I can use for these. Like most
people, I don't like to waste my time Googling for things that you
could easily provide as a URL.

While you're looking, consider that finding a hidden camera requires
that the camera emits something that you can detect with your
smartphone. That limits it to RF emissions of some sort, magnetic
emissions from the lens auto focus electronics, or IR emissions from
some manner of illuminator. You might to better with a spectrum
analyzer (or RTL-SDR dongle) and look for the camera clock oscillator,
LAN clock frequency, or RF backhaul frequency. CCTV cameras are often
powered by 24VAC. Maybe look for a 60Hz AC power field where one
would normally not be expected.


Another detector for a hidden camera lens is the reflective LED method.
You wear a headdress of LEDs facing outwards just above your eyes and if
you see bright point reflections then you may have found your hidden
camera (lens)...

This was explored in the book by Cory Doctorow "Little Brother"

https://boingboing.net/2008/05/09/howto-detect-hidden.html

John :-#)#

Anonymous Remailer (austr
Guest

Sun Jan 27, 2019 12:45 am   



In article <S_ednbg_JIDtqdHBnZ2dnUU7-U2dnZ2d_at_giganews.com>
Fox's Mercantile <jdangus_at_att.net> wrote:
Quote:

On 1/25/19 11:23 PM, arlen holder wrote:
Do you have experience with "infrared camera detection" on mobile devices?

Go away.

--
"I am a river to my people."
Jeff-1.0
WA6FWi
http:foxsmercantile.com


Big mistake placing your call sign in your sig.

If you're going to get into arguments with people on Usenet, there are
some very mean people who will look you up in the FCC call sign
registry and cause you and your family immense problems. They can go
to a site such as Intelius and with their credit card learn the entire
public record of your life. It has happened again and again on Usenet,
and they guy you're screwing with is one of the sock puppets of a guy
who does such a thing. An American Indian named Eagle made that same
mistake with his call sign. They drove him off from Usenet with
threats to his entire family. Others have suffered the same fate.

It's probably a bit late, but If I were you I'd drop that call sign
from your sig file.

arlen holder
Guest

Sun Jan 27, 2019 5:45 am   



On Sat, 26 Jan 2019 13:46:23 -0800, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

Quote:
o Detect Hidden Camera, version 1.9
Nothing found on the Play store.


I apologize that the app I used is no longer in Google Play.

This is what the "green screen" IR detector screen looks like:
<http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=6487383detect08.jpg>
That's actually an infrared camera it's pointed at, but it's apparently off
(likely as wires pulled out when the tree fell down in a windstorm).

Here, for the record, is what the "magnetometer" readout looks like
with the results in both cases when pressed next to radios:
<http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=1112569detect07.jpg>
It glows red when you're close to an RF emitter of various sorts:

Quote:
o (com.techno95.detecthiddencameraandmicrophone)

There's nothing by techno95 remaining on the Google Play Store.
However, you can get the APK if you want to live dangerously:
https://www.apkfollow.com/app/detect-hidden-cameras-and-microphones/com.techno95.detecthiddencameraandmicrophone/


I apologize. Let me use a few apps in my "system" folder to check.
Apparently I installed version 1.9 of that app on November 9th, 2018.

1. This is what "My Apps" freeware shows about that app:
o <https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.spencerstudios.applist>
<http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=2539873detect01.jpg>

2. This is what "List My Apps" freeware shows about that app:
o <https://f-droid.org/en/packages/de.onyxbits.listmyapps/>
<http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=3786727detect02.jpg>

3. This is what "My App List" freeware shows about that app:
o <https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.projectsexception.myapplist>
<http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=4643505detect03.jpg>

4. This is what "Applications Info" freeware shows about that app:
o <https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.majeur.applicationsinfo>
<http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=1843366detect04.jpg>

5. This is what my.own.apps freeware shows (but it's obnoxiousware):
o My Apps <https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=my.own.apps>
<http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=1547742detect05.jpg>

6. This is what mobi.usage.appbackup freeware shows about that app:
o App Backup & Restore <https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=mobi.usage.appbackup>
<http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=4930033detect06.jpg>

Quote:
Let us know when you find a URL that I can use for these. Like most
people, I don't like to waste my time Googling for things that you
could easily provide as a URL.


I agree with you that the one I used is no longer easy to find.
Luckily there are plenty of "hidden camera detectors" on Google Play:
<https://play.google.com/store/search?q=hidden camera detector>

I tested FOUR of them for you, where I recommend the LAST one below.

Here is one called "Hidden Camera Detector".
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=hiddencamdetector.futureapps.com.hiddencamdetector>
<http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=2460855detect09.jpg>
Here it is in use inside my house (I will test it outside later):
<http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=2368161detect10.jpg>
That app has ads; but it seems otherwise the same as the old one I have.

Here's another one called "Hidden Camera Detector".
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.labinformatics.hiddencameradetectorspy>
<http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=8525590detect13.jpg>
Here it is in use inside my house (notice it uses a "blue screen"):
<http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=8822787detect14.jpg>
The magnetometer seems to give slightly more dynamic data:
<http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=5189465detect15.jpg>

Here is a lousy sophomoric one called "Anti-Spy:Came Detector"
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.mastertech.SpyDetector>
<http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=8552496detect11.jpg>
It has obnoxious ads; but otherwise, it seems the same as mine.
<http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=8121084detect12.jpg>
(I don't recommend this app due to the obnoxities.)

Here is one called "Hidden Camera Detector Camera Scanner":
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.teamissolution.hiddencameradetectedspycamerasdetectors>
<http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=8255824detect16.png>
This one uses a "pink viewfinder" & a dial gauge magnetometer:
<http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=7911635detect17.jpg>
The magnetometer, like the others, displays what it thinks it sees:
<http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=1341749detect18.jpg>
This one seems to have an additional separate graphing function:
<http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=8397455detect19.jpg>

Of all those, I like the one I have best since it has zero ads!
But of the ones that are available now, that last one is OK.

One thing I noticed in testing that I didn't realize is that the
"Green Screen" is immaterial. I don't know WHY they change
the color of the screen (do you?).

Some are green. Some are blue. Some red.
Why bother changing the color?

Quote:
While you're looking, consider that finding a hidden camera requires
that the camera emits something that you can detect with your
smartphone. That limits it to RF emissions of some sort, magnetic
emissions from the lens auto focus electronics, or IR emissions from
some manner of illuminator.


I think the apps all look for the same thing:
o Magnetometer readings, or,
o They just let the IR-sensitive camera do its normal thing.

I "guess" they make the screen "green or red or blue" to give more
contrast? I'm not sure. Do you know why they change the screen color?

Quote:
You might to better with a spectrum
analyzer (or RTL-SDR dongle) and look for the camera clock oscillator,
LAN clock frequency, or RF backhaul frequency. CCTV cameras are often
powered by 24VAC. Maybe look for a 60Hz AC power field where one
would normally not be expected.


I'm not a professional; I just hike in rough terrain where bad guys are.
That is, I happen to often hike in the hills where pot farmers grow stuff.
<http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=3023286detect20.jpg>

I find their "stuff" all the time, fertilizer, hoses, dams, irrigation
tubing, and even hammocks, sleeping bags, weighing scales,
car batteries, etc.

It's very common in these inaccessible mountain areas.

Here's just a bunch of horticulture pots I found yesterday while hiking at
least two or three miles from the nearest road deep off the trails.
<http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=2648541detect21.jpg>

Whenever I see _that_ stuff, I know the pot farmers are nearby.
I just want to see if they have hidden cameras in the trees.

Jeff Liebermann
Guest

Sun Jan 27, 2019 6:45 am   



On Sat, 26 Jan 2019 15:05:10 -0800, John Robertson <spam_at_flippers.com>
wrote:
Quote:
Another detector for a hidden camera lens is the reflective LED method.
You wear a headdress of LEDs facing outwards just above your eyes and if
you see bright point reflections then you may have found your hidden
camera (lens)...

This was explored in the book by Cory Doctorow "Little Brother"
https://boingboing.net/2008/05/09/howto-detect-hidden.html
John :-#)#


Nice idea. My initial guess(tm) was that the anti-reflective coating
on the camera lens would umm... not reflect anything:
<https://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-locate-pinhole-cameras/>
The instructions are value and ambiguous. It took me a while to
decode how it is intended to be used.

The purpose of the toilet paper tube is prevent the user from seeing
the direct light from the flashlight. In order to get a tolerable
reflection, the flashlight should be close and parallel to the toilet
paper tube. Once I did that, I was able to see reflections from some
of my various cameras, but also reflections from anything shiny in the
house. The lenses that did not reflect light were those with clear
plastic lens protectors, which reflected nothing no matter what I
tried. Actually, there was plenty of light scattering, but nothing
that could be seen as a reflected spot. That eliminated some of my
laptop web cameras and outdoor security cameras. How well it works in
the field, I don't know. Probably better than inside my house because
of the lack of spurious reflections.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl_at_cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Phil Hobbs
Guest

Sun Jan 27, 2019 9:45 pm   



On 1/27/19 12:03 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
Quote:
On Sat, 26 Jan 2019 15:05:10 -0800, John Robertson <spam_at_flippers.com
wrote:
Another detector for a hidden camera lens is the reflective LED method.
You wear a headdress of LEDs facing outwards just above your eyes and if
you see bright point reflections then you may have found your hidden
camera (lens)...

This was explored in the book by Cory Doctorow "Little Brother"
https://boingboing.net/2008/05/09/howto-detect-hidden.html
John :-#)#

Nice idea. My initial guess(tm) was that the anti-reflective coating
on the camera lens would umm... not reflect anything:


It's the retroreflection from the surface of the image sensor that you
see, like a cat's eye in the dark. If the sensor is at the focus of the
lens, the reflection goes straight back to the light source.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

http://electrooptical.net
http://hobbs-eo.com

arlen holder
Guest

Mon Feb 04, 2019 9:45 pm   



On Sat, 26 Jan 2019 15:43:41 -0600, Fox's Mercantile wrote:

> You're convinced I'm Snit. I'm not.

Hi Snit,

*Never have you added even a single iota of on-topic value to _any_ thread.*

You already _admitted_ you were Snit, long ago, and even if you now deny
what you long ago admitted, what matters is that you _reek_ of Snit.

You, Fox's Mercantile, just as when you post as Snit ...
o Prove that you provide _negative_ value in _every_ post.

You just proved the veracity of that fact in this very thread, for example.
o And in the next thread.
o And the next.
o And next...
(ad infinitum)

You've never even _once_ contributed an iota of on-topic value
o To _any_ thread!

I don't have to prove this, since you prove it yourself every time you post
o For example, in this very thread.

You, Snit (aka Fox's Mercantile), _can't_ add value
o The reason is that you have a left-side-of-mount-stupid DK mind

You, Fox's Mercantile, posted this _idiotic_ video, for example:
<https://youtu.be/7QaABa6DFIo> (Fox's Mercantile video)

Fox's Mercantile (aka Snit) can't comprehend that he can't comprehend:
o Fox's Mercantile _never_ even once _looked_ at the Y-axis!

That's how _stupid_ you prove to be, Fox's Mercantile - every time!
o Whether you post as Fox's Mercantile - or whether you post as Snit

*Never have you added even a single iota of on-topic value to _any_ thread.*

Fox's Mercantile
Guest

Mon Feb 04, 2019 10:45 pm   



On 2/4/19 2:27 PM, arlen holder wrote:
Quote:
That's how_stupid_ you prove to be, Fox's Mercantile - every time!
o Whether you post as Fox's Mercantile - or whether you post as Snit


There we go again.

Do you sit in front of your monitor masturbating fantasizing that your
childish rants accusing me of being snit makes me give one flying fuck
about anything you say?

Go fuck yourself.
Oh I forgot, you already are.


--
"I am a river to my people."
Jeff-1.0
WA6FWi
http:foxsmercantile.com

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