Do/Don't? Soldering Wire Tips Before Sticking into Terminal

D from BC
Guest

Mon Mar 08, 2010 4:08 am

Is it ok to solder the tips of stranded wire before inserting into a
terminal block?
I like soldering the tips so that there's no wire fraying or free
strands.
But...Does the solder slowly compress after awhile and the wire gets
loose?
Sure I could perhaps a crimp on pin terminals to stick in the terminal
block.
Ex:
http://www.molex.com/pdm_docs/sd/192110001_sd.pdf
I'm afraid I'll have to buy a ridiculously priced crimping tool that'll
get used a few times and then be forgotten. :(

--
D from BC
British Columbia

Martin Riddle
Guest

Mon Mar 08, 2010 4:40 am

"D from BC" <myrealaddress_at_comic.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.25fe09ecf46be4e49896d0_at_209.197.12.12...

Quote:

Is it ok to solder the tips of stranded wire before inserting into a
terminal block?
I like soldering the tips so that there's no wire fraying or free
strands.
But...Does the solder slowly compress after awhile and the wire gets
loose?
Sure I could perhaps a crimp on pin terminals to stick in the terminal
block.
Ex:
http://www.molex.com/pdm_docs/sd/192110001_sd.pdf
I'm afraid I'll have to buy a ridiculously priced crimping tool
that'll
get used a few times and then be forgotten. :(

Yes the solder will cold flow.

There are other crimp terminals such as Panduit
<http://www.alliedelec.com/search/productdetail.aspx?SKU=3810879>
These can use standard lug crimpers.

Cheers

D from BC
Guest

Mon Mar 08, 2010 4:58 am

In article <hn1rjm$24t$1_at_news.eternal-september.org>,
martin_rid_at_verizon.net says...

Quote:

"D from BC" <myrealaddress_at_comic.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.25fe09ecf46be4e49896d0_at_209.197.12.12...
Is it ok to solder the tips of stranded wire before inserting into a
terminal block?
I like soldering the tips so that there's no wire fraying or free
strands.
But...Does the solder slowly compress after awhile and the wire gets
loose?
Sure I could perhaps a crimp on pin terminals to stick in the terminal
block.
Ex:
http://www.molex.com/pdm_docs/sd/192110001_sd.pdf
I'm afraid I'll have to buy a ridiculously priced crimping tool
that'll
get used a few times and then be forgotten. :(

Yes the solder will cold flow.

There are other crimp terminals such as Panduit
http://www.alliedelec.com/search/productdetail.aspx?SKU=3810879
These can use standard lug crimpers.

Cheers

Does that apply to all solders?
Is there a type of solder that takes a longer time to cold flow?
Silver solder?

D Yuniskis
Guest

Mon Mar 08, 2010 5:06 am

D from BC wrote:

Quote:

Is it ok to solder the tips of stranded wire before inserting into a
terminal block?
I like soldering the tips so that there's no wire fraying or free
strands.
But...Does the solder slowly compress after awhile and the wire gets
loose?

If you are going to put a (bare) wire under a screw, put that
*bare* wire under the screw. Don't "tin" it.

I think there are even some safety regulations that directly
address this issue (?)

Quote:

Sure I could perhaps a crimp on pin terminals to stick in the terminal
block.
Ex:
http://www.molex.com/pdm_docs/sd/192110001_sd.pdf
I'm afraid I'll have to buy a ridiculously priced crimping tool that'll
get used a few times and then be forgotten. :(

Martin Riddle
Guest

Mon Mar 08, 2010 5:16 am

"D from BC" <myrealaddress_at_comic.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.25fe15b2f5ead99e9896d2_at_209.197.12.12...

Quote:

In article <hn1rjm$24t$1_at_news.eternal-september.org>,
martin_rid_at_verizon.net says...

"D from BC" <myrealaddress_at_comic.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.25fe09ecf46be4e49896d0_at_209.197.12.12...
Is it ok to solder the tips of stranded wire before inserting into
a
terminal block?
I like soldering the tips so that there's no wire fraying or free
strands.
But...Does the solder slowly compress after awhile and the wire
gets
loose?
Sure I could perhaps a crimp on pin terminals to stick in the
terminal
block.
Ex:
http://www.molex.com/pdm_docs/sd/192110001_sd.pdf
I'm afraid I'll have to buy a ridiculously priced crimping tool
that'll
get used a few times and then be forgotten. :(

Yes the solder will cold flow.

There are other crimp terminals such as Panduit
http://www.alliedelec.com/search/productdetail.aspx?SKU=3810879
These can use standard lug crimpers.

Cheers

Does that apply to all solders?
Is there a type of solder that takes a longer time to cold flow?
Silver solder?

Not sure, but I have come across this failure before.

Cheers

John Larkin
Guest

Mon Mar 08, 2010 5:41 am

On Sun, 7 Mar 2010 19:08:03 -0800, D from BC <myrealaddress_at_comic.com>
wrote:

Quote:

Is it ok to solder the tips of stranded wire before inserting into a
terminal block?
I like soldering the tips so that there's no wire fraying or free
strands.
But...Does the solder slowly compress after awhile and the wire gets
loose?
Sure I could perhaps a crimp on pin terminals to stick in the terminal
block.
Ex:
http://www.molex.com/pdm_docs/sd/192110001_sd.pdf
I'm afraid I'll have to buy a ridiculously priced crimping tool that'll
get used a few times and then be forgotten. Sad

There's a chance that, if there's any motion or vibration, the wire
will break at the transition between the wicked solder and the
unsoldered bit. It's illegal per NASA and some MIL soldering
standards.

These weird tools are used to control wicking

http://www.amazon.com/Ripley-Miller-Anti-Wicking-Tweezer-Bullet/dp/B001KAHKPM

in some situations.

John

Ban
Guest

Mon Mar 08, 2010 5:43 am

D from BC wrote:

Quote:

Is it ok to solder the tips of stranded wire before inserting into a
terminal block?
I like soldering the tips so that there's no wire fraying or free
strands.
But...Does the solder slowly compress after awhile and the wire gets
loose?
Sure I could perhaps a crimp on pin terminals to stick in the terminal
block.
Ex:
http://www.molex.com/pdm_docs/sd/192110001_sd.pdf
I'm afraid I'll have to buy a ridiculously priced crimping tool
that'll get used a few times and then be forgotten. Sad

ferrules an a hand crimping tool can be found for a few bucks at Walmart.
The solder makes the strands brittle and if there is some vibration the
cable will break off. solder migration is not an issue here.

Ban

TTman
Guest

Mon Mar 08, 2010 8:25 am

"D from BC" <myrealaddress_at_comic.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.25fe09ecf46be4e49896d0_at_209.197.12.12...

Quote:

Is it ok to solder the tips of stranded wire before inserting into a
terminal block?
I like soldering the tips so that there's no wire fraying or free
strands.
But...Does the solder slowly compress after awhile and the wire gets
loose?
Sure I could perhaps a crimp on pin terminals to stick in the terminal
block.
Ex:
http://www.molex.com/pdm_docs/sd/192110001_sd.pdf
I'm afraid I'll have to buy a ridiculously priced crimping tool that'll
get used a few times and then be forgotten. :(

--
D from BC
British Columbia

Just twist the wire first......strip bach 1/2" of insulation and leave it on
the wire. Makes it easier to twist.
Soldering will induce fractures with vibration.

Tim Watts
Guest

Mon Mar 08, 2010 9:04 am

D from BC <myrealaddress_at_comic.com>
wibbled on Monday 08 March 2010 03:08

Quote:

Is it ok to solder the tips of stranded wire before inserting into a
terminal block?
I like soldering the tips so that there's no wire fraying or free
strands.
But...Does the solder slowly compress after awhile and the wire gets
loose?
Sure I could perhaps a crimp on pin terminals to stick in the terminal
block.
Ex:
http://www.molex.com/pdm_docs/sd/192110001_sd.pdf
I'm afraid I'll have to buy a ridiculously priced crimping tool that'll
get used a few times and then be forgotten. :(

2 problems:

1) Solder "creeps" over time, so the screw that was tightened today may not
remain tight.

2) IME, I have also observed, with finer wires, that the wire can break at
the point between tinned and non tinned wire due to concentration of
stresses.

The right way is to crimp some "bootlace" uninsulated ferrules on the end,
which is what I do with house wiring, if I'm terminating flex from say 12V
downlighters (I use silicone HT flex for the last leg to these) into regular
terminal blocks. Works very nicely. Don't buy the crimp tool from RS unless
you like throwing money away - a little research on google and you can get
decent ratchet tools for 20-30 quid. The ferrules are dirt cheap.

--
Tim Watts

Managers, politicians and environmentalists: Nature's carbon buffer.

amark
Guest

Mon Mar 08, 2010 9:38 am

On Mar 8, 2:08 pm, D from BC <myrealaddr...@comic.com> wrote:

Quote:

Is it ok to solder the tips of stranded wire before inserting into a
terminal block?
I like soldering the tips so that there's no wire fraying or free
strands.
But...Does the solder slowly compress after awhile and the wire gets
loose?
Sure I could perhaps a crimp on pin terminals to stick in the terminal
block.
Ex:http://www.molex.com/pdm_docs/sd/192110001_sd.pdf
I'm afraid I'll have to buy a ridiculously priced crimping tool that'll
get used a few times and then be forgotten. :(

--
D from BC
British Columbia

Hi D!
I think that if you're going to do the job, you are better off to do
it right. That means follow the manufacturer's recommendations, when
it comes to connectors of any kind.

BTW I think that many failures in electronic equipment are at the
connection between one thing and another, whether it be solder
connections, plugs that need reseating or other arrangement coming
adrift through heat cycling, corrosion, electrolytic action, blah
blah... always try to minimise such failures by making the best
possible job of all electrical connections.

amark

Tim Williams
Guest

Mon Mar 08, 2010 9:38 am

"D from BC" <myrealaddress_at_comic.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.25fe15b2f5ead99e9896d2_at_209.197.12.12...

Quote:

Does that apply to all solders?
Is there a type of solder that takes a longer time to cold flow?
Silver solder?

Silver solder is actually a braze, and as such you will have no insulation
left on the wire after brazing it. It's made of similar metals as the wire,
so it won't cold flow, not at this temperature anyway.

Tim

--
Deep Friar: a very philosophical monk.
Website: http://webpages.charter.net/dawill/tmoranwms

Fred Abse
Guest

Mon Mar 08, 2010 10:44 am

On Mon, 08 Mar 2010 05:43:47 +0100, Ban wrote:

Quote:

solder migration is not an issue here.

No, but "creep", in the metallurgical sense (slow deformation under
stress), is. The solder filling the interstices between individual wires
moves, allowing the connection to go slack.

--
"Electricity is of two kinds, positive and negative. The difference
is, I presume, that one comes a little more expensive, but is more
durable; the other is a cheaper thing, but the moths get into it."
(Stephen Leacock)

Fred Abse
Guest

Mon Mar 08, 2010 10:44 am

On Sun, 07 Mar 2010 19:58:25 -0800, D from BC wrote:

Quote:

Does that apply to all solders?
Is there a type of solder that takes a longer time to cold flow? Silver
solder?

If you mean tin/lead/silver solder, the sort that you can use an iron
with, that's as bad as ordinary tin/lead.

"Proper" silver solder, AKA hard solder, doesn't creep as much, but needs
a brazing torch.

--
"Electricity is of two kinds, positive and negative. The difference
is, I presume, that one comes a little more expensive, but is more
durable; the other is a cheaper thing, but the moths get into it."
(Stephen Leacock)

Jan Panteltje
Guest

Mon Mar 08, 2010 1:28 pm

On a sunny day (Sun, 7 Mar 2010 19:08:03 -0800) it happened D from BC
<myrealaddress_at_comic.com> wrote in <MPG.25fe09ecf46be4e49896d0_at_209.197.12.12>:

Quote:

Is it ok to solder the tips of stranded wire before inserting into a
terminal block?

Better not.
It will get lose over time, and if there is a lot of current melt the terminal block.
You need to uses these tubes (dunno the English worrd),
and put those around the cable end.

----------- ----- metal tube
|=======
----------- -----

Sometimes it is better to solder the cables in case of high currents,.

Quote:

I like soldering the tips so that there's no wire fraying or free
strands.
But...Does the solder slowly compress after awhile and the wire gets
loose?
Sure I could perhaps a crimp on pin terminals to stick in the terminal
block.
Ex:
http://www.molex.com/pdm_docs/sd/192110001_sd.pdf
I'm afraid I'll have to buy a ridiculously priced crimping tool that'll
get used a few times and then be forgotten. :(

--
D from BC
British Columbia

Guest

Mon Mar 08, 2010 2:17 pm

The Europeans solder or crimp soft brass tubing onto the wire. Wire
goes half in, screw clamps on the half without wire. I put brass
tubing on large wire all the time. It really helps on the large wires,
on "blind" terminal blocks that only grip about 1/4" of the wire. It
will cold flow in about 10-15 years. The units I serviced had the
mains wires (30 amp, 220, 3P) loosening up in 2005, they were made in
1985.

Steve