cruise ships

John Larkin
Guest

Sat Jan 14, 2012 11:19 pm

http://www.cnn.com/2012/01/14/world/europe/italy-cruise-deaths/index.html

What is with cruise ships? They are always having epidemics, power
failures, fires, food poisoning, and sinking.

I've only been on one, the QE2 from New York to France. I wanted to
visit the engine room, which is usually allowed, except that they'd
just had a big fire. The trip took 5 days because one boiler was still
out.

John

Artemus
Guest

Sun Jan 15, 2012 12:10 am

"John Larkin" <jjlarkin_at_highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote in message
news:6jv3h7hjjdlbljq1ari7qkm9g9fr4aj6ij_at_4ax.com...

Quote:

http://www.cnn.com/2012/01/14/world/europe/italy-cruise-deaths/index.html

What is with cruise ships? They are always having epidemics, power
failures, fires, food poisoning, and sinking.

I've only been on one, the QE2 from New York to France. I wanted to
visit the engine room, which is usually allowed, except that they'd
just had a big fire. The trip took 5 days because one boiler was still
out.

John

WTH?? I thought Andy Rooney died a couple of months ago.

Art

Jim Thompson
Guest

Sun Jan 15, 2012 12:13 am

On Sat, 14 Jan 2012 14:19:27 -0800, John Larkin
<jjlarkin_at_highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:

Quote:

http://www.cnn.com/2012/01/14/world/europe/italy-cruise-deaths/index.html

What is with cruise ships? They are always having epidemics, power
failures, fires, food poisoning, and sinking.

I've only been on one, the QE2 from New York to France. I wanted to
visit the engine room, which is usually allowed, except that they'd
just had a big fire. The trip took 5 days because one boiler was still
out.

John

Designs by Larkin ? Smile

Flail away, Schadenfreude, Schadenfreude,
Schadenfreude... dork, dork, dork Smile

John Larkin
Guest

Sun Jan 15, 2012 12:35 am

On Sat, 14 Jan 2012 15:10:24 -0800, "Artemus" <bogus_at_invalid.org>
wrote:

Quote:

"John Larkin" <jjlarkin_at_highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote in message
news:6jv3h7hjjdlbljq1ari7qkm9g9fr4aj6ij_at_4ax.com...

http://www.cnn.com/2012/01/14/world/europe/italy-cruise-deaths/index.html

What is with cruise ships? They are always having epidemics, power
failures, fires, food poisoning, and sinking.

I've only been on one, the QE2 from New York to France. I wanted to
visit the engine room, which is usually allowed, except that they'd
just had a big fire. The trip took 5 days because one boiler was still
out.

John

WTH?? I thought Andy Rooney died a couple of months ago.
Art

Well, it is sort of amazing that, with radar and GPS and sonar depth
sounders and computers and stuff, a crew would manage to run a ship
this big onto the rocks in clear, fair weather.

It's like the Airbus that crashed over the South Atlantic; automated
and computerized to the hilt, engines running fine, and the crew
stalled it all the way into the sea.

John

Bill Sloman
Guest

Sun Jan 15, 2012 12:54 am

On Jan 14, 11:19 pm, John Larkin
<jjlar...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:

Quote:

http://www.cnn.com/2012/01/14/world/europe/italy-cruise-deaths/index....

What is with cruise ships? They are always having epidemics, power
failures, fires, food poisoning, and sinking.

I've only been on one, the QE2 from New York to France. I wanted to
visit the engine room, which is usually allowed, except that they'd
just had a big fire. The trip took 5 days because one boiler was still
out.

There do seem to be quite a few of them around, and they are built and
run by fallible human beings, so they break from time to time.

At least they don't have nuclear reactors on board.

--
Bill Sloman, Nijmegen

Jim Thompson
Guest

Sun Jan 15, 2012 12:58 am

On Sat, 14 Jan 2012 15:35:18 -0800, John Larkin
<jjlarkin_at_highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:

Quote:

On Sat, 14 Jan 2012 15:10:24 -0800, "Artemus" <bogus_at_invalid.org
wrote:

"John Larkin" <jjlarkin_at_highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote in message
news:6jv3h7hjjdlbljq1ari7qkm9g9fr4aj6ij_at_4ax.com...

http://www.cnn.com/2012/01/14/world/europe/italy-cruise-deaths/index.html

What is with cruise ships? They are always having epidemics, power
failures, fires, food poisoning, and sinking.

I've only been on one, the QE2 from New York to France. I wanted to
visit the engine room, which is usually allowed, except that they'd
just had a big fire. The trip took 5 days because one boiler was still
out.

John

WTH?? I thought Andy Rooney died a couple of months ago.
Art

Well, it is sort of amazing that, with radar and GPS and sonar depth
sounders and computers and stuff, a crew would manage to run a ship
this big onto the rocks in clear, fair weather.

It's like the Airbus that crashed over the South Atlantic; automated
and computerized to the hilt, engines running fine, and the crew
stalled it all the way into the sea.

John

Maybe a "brat" running the ship ;-)

Flail away, Schadenfreude, Schadenfreude, Schadenfreude... dork, dork,
dork Smile

John Larkin
Guest

Sun Jan 15, 2012 1:09 am

On Sat, 14 Jan 2012 16:58:11 -0700, Jim Thompson
<To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon_at_On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote:

Quote:

On Sat, 14 Jan 2012 15:35:18 -0800, John Larkin
jjlarkin_at_highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:

On Sat, 14 Jan 2012 15:10:24 -0800, "Artemus" <bogus_at_invalid.org
wrote:

"John Larkin" <jjlarkin_at_highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote in message
news:6jv3h7hjjdlbljq1ari7qkm9g9fr4aj6ij_at_4ax.com...

http://www.cnn.com/2012/01/14/world/europe/italy-cruise-deaths/index.html

What is with cruise ships? They are always having epidemics, power
failures, fires, food poisoning, and sinking.

I've only been on one, the QE2 from New York to France. I wanted to
visit the engine room, which is usually allowed, except that they'd
just had a big fire. The trip took 5 days because one boiler was still
out.

John

WTH?? I thought Andy Rooney died a couple of months ago.
Art

Well, it is sort of amazing that, with radar and GPS and sonar depth
sounders and computers and stuff, a crew would manage to run a ship
this big onto the rocks in clear, fair weather.

It's like the Airbus that crashed over the South Atlantic; automated
and computerized to the hilt, engines running fine, and the crew
stalled it all the way into the sea.

John

Maybe a "brat" running the ship ;-)

Flail away, Schadenfreude, Schadenfreude, Schadenfreude... dork, dork,
dork Smile

...Jim Thompson

Is that all you can do, keep making those same stupid noises?

What a moron.

John

Jim Thompson
Guest

Sun Jan 15, 2012 1:12 am

On Sat, 14 Jan 2012 16:09:18 -0800, John Larkin
<jjlarkin_at_highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:

Quote:

On Sat, 14 Jan 2012 16:58:11 -0700, Jim Thompson
To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon_at_On-My-Web-Site.com> wrote:

On Sat, 14 Jan 2012 15:35:18 -0800, John Larkin
jjlarkin_at_highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:

On Sat, 14 Jan 2012 15:10:24 -0800, "Artemus" <bogus_at_invalid.org
wrote:

"John Larkin" <jjlarkin_at_highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote in message
news:6jv3h7hjjdlbljq1ari7qkm9g9fr4aj6ij_at_4ax.com...

http://www.cnn.com/2012/01/14/world/europe/italy-cruise-deaths/index.html

What is with cruise ships? They are always having epidemics, power
failures, fires, food poisoning, and sinking.

I've only been on one, the QE2 from New York to France. I wanted to
visit the engine room, which is usually allowed, except that they'd
just had a big fire. The trip took 5 days because one boiler was still
out.

John

WTH?? I thought Andy Rooney died a couple of months ago.
Art

Well, it is sort of amazing that, with radar and GPS and sonar depth
sounders and computers and stuff, a crew would manage to run a ship
this big onto the rocks in clear, fair weather.

It's like the Airbus that crashed over the South Atlantic; automated
and computerized to the hilt, engines running fine, and the crew
stalled it all the way into the sea.

John

Maybe a "brat" running the ship ;-)

Flail away, Schadenfreude, Schadenfreude, Schadenfreude... dork, dork,
dork Smile

...Jim Thompson

Is that all you can do, keep making those same stupid noises?

What a moron.

John

Platitudes, platitudes, but as long as your name is in lights, the
manic-depressive persona is satisfied ? Smile

Pueblo Dancer
Guest

Sun Jan 15, 2012 1:37 am

On Sat, 14 Jan 2012 14:54:49 -0800 (PST), Bill Sloman
<bill.sloman_at_ieee.org> wrote:

Quote:

On Jan 14, 11:19 pm, John Larkin
jjlar...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:
http://www.cnn.com/2012/01/14/world/europe/italy-cruise-deaths/index....

What is with cruise ships? They are always having epidemics, power
failures, fires, food poisoning, and sinking.

I've only been on one, the QE2 from New York to France. I wanted to
visit the engine room, which is usually allowed, except that they'd
just had a big fire. The trip took 5 days because one boiler was still
out.

There do seem to be quite a few of them around, and they are built and
run by fallible human beings, so they break from time to time.

At least they don't have nuclear reactors on board.

If they did, they would be in hardened containment. Not quite as hard
or thick as your skull, however.

Rich Webb
Guest

Sun Jan 15, 2012 1:38 am

On Sat, 14 Jan 2012 15:35:18 -0800, John Larkin
<jjlarkin_at_highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:

Quote:

On Sat, 14 Jan 2012 15:10:24 -0800, "Artemus" <bogus_at_invalid.org
wrote:

"John Larkin" <jjlarkin_at_highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote in message
news:6jv3h7hjjdlbljq1ari7qkm9g9fr4aj6ij_at_4ax.com...

http://www.cnn.com/2012/01/14/world/europe/italy-cruise-deaths/index.html

What is with cruise ships? They are always having epidemics, power
failures, fires, food poisoning, and sinking.

I've only been on one, the QE2 from New York to France. I wanted to
visit the engine room, which is usually allowed, except that they'd
just had a big fire. The trip took 5 days because one boiler was still
out.

John

WTH?? I thought Andy Rooney died a couple of months ago.
Art

Well, it is sort of amazing that, with radar and GPS and sonar depth
sounders and computers and stuff, a crew would manage to run a ship
this big onto the rocks in clear, fair weather.

"The ship was 2.5 miles off route when it struck a rocky sandbar,
according to the Italian Coast Guard" probably accounts for the
grounding. Too early to say why; perhaps they were running late and cut
across a dogleg. Unfortunately, not all areas are equally well charted
and once off their normal track, they were taking quite a chance.

The usual cause is a chain of dumbshit actions where multiple players
had a chance to say "Hey, wait a minute, this doesn't look right!" or,
worse, somebody does speak up and gets brushed off.

--
Rich Webb Norfolk, VA

Dave Platt
Guest

Sun Jan 15, 2012 1:47 am

In article <6144h7hfcop02no7n7msfvhs2a7ud7tap0_at_4ax.com>,
John Larkin <jjlarkin_at_highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:

Quote:

Well, it is sort of amazing that, with radar and GPS and sonar depth
sounders and computers and stuff, a crew would manage to run a ship
this big onto the rocks in clear, fair weather.

This does sound as if somebody messed up pretty badly.

Quote:

It's like the Airbus that crashed over the South Atlantic; automated
and computerized to the hilt, engines running fine, and the crew
stalled it all the way into the sea.

In the case of the Airbus, I believe that the leading theory is that
the crew flew the plane into some pretty severe weather conditions,
and the pitot tubes iced up. This caused the airspeed sensing system
to go completely haywire, and the crew probably had no way of knowing
what the plane's true airspeed was. Hence, Garbage In, Garbage Out.

IIRC, there's actually a pretty narrow set of flight conditions which
work, when you're flying as high and fast as those planes do... both
airspeed and pitch need to be quite tightly controlled in order to
maintain a flat-and-level flight.

--
Dave Platt <dplatt_at_radagast.org> AE6EO
Friends of Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior
I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will
boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads!

Dave Platt
Guest

Sun Jan 15, 2012 1:50 am

In article <8v54h791o2746ot35pi27r7ehvi3934ski_at_4ax.com>,
Rich Webb <bbew.ar_at_mapson.nozirev.ten> wrote:

Quote:

The usual cause is a chain of dumbshit actions where multiple players
had a chance to say "Hey, wait a minute, this doesn't look right!" or,
worse, somebody does speak up and gets brushed off.

That was one of the hard lessons learned from the Canary Island plane
crash some years ago. Having one officer in absolute command of a
vessel ("He's the boss, he's the expert, he *must* know what he's
doing) can get you into trouble, if the other ("subordinate") officers
do not feel comfortable in questioning what they believe is a wrong
action.

--
Dave Platt <dplatt_at_radagast.org> AE6EO
Friends of Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior
I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will
boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads!

John Larkin
Guest

Sun Jan 15, 2012 2:15 am

On Sat, 14 Jan 2012 16:47:57 -0800, dplatt_at_radagast.org (Dave Platt)
wrote:

Quote:

In article <6144h7hfcop02no7n7msfvhs2a7ud7tap0_at_4ax.com>,
John Larkin <jjlarkin_at_highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:

Well, it is sort of amazing that, with radar and GPS and sonar depth
sounders and computers and stuff, a crew would manage to run a ship
this big onto the rocks in clear, fair weather.

This does sound as if somebody messed up pretty badly.

It's like the Airbus that crashed over the South Atlantic; automated
and computerized to the hilt, engines running fine, and the crew
stalled it all the way into the sea.

In the case of the Airbus, I believe that the leading theory is that
the crew flew the plane into some pretty severe weather conditions,
and the pitot tubes iced up. This caused the airspeed sensing system
to go completely haywire, and the crew probably had no way of knowing
what the plane's true airspeed was. Hence, Garbage In, Garbage Out.

IIRC, there's actually a pretty narrow set of flight conditions which
work, when you're flying as high and fast as those planes do... both
airspeed and pitch need to be quite tightly controlled in order to
maintain a flat-and-level flight.

This plane doesn't have control yokes, but has independent joysticks
for the two pilots. Neither gets any tactile feedback on what the
other is doing, and the computer averages their inputs. One guy was
apparently trying to keep it level, and the other was pulling back to
the max. The average was enough to stall it. The pilots on this plane
do not have a visible angle-of-attack indicator! And, apparently,
didn't understand much about how airplanes work. They were used to the
computer flying the plane.

They flew it all the way into the sea that way, nose-up.

John

John Larkin
Guest

Sun Jan 15, 2012 2:18 am

On Sat, 14 Jan 2012 16:48:59 -0800 (PST), "langwadt_at_fonz.dk"
<langwadt_at_fonz.dk> wrote:

Quote:

On 14 Jan., 23:19, John Larkin
jjlar...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:
http://www.cnn.com/2012/01/14/world/europe/italy-cruise-deaths/index....

What is with cruise ships? They are always having epidemics, power
failures, fires, food poisoning, and sinking.

I've only been on one, the QE2 from New York to France. I wanted to
visit the engine room, which is usually allowed, except that they'd
just had a big fire. The trip took 5 days because one boiler was still
out.

John

must have been a long long time ago, I was still in school when they
switched to diesel

-Lasse

Yup. Big ships are now mostly direct-drive reversing diesels. Steam is
more efficient, but it's hard to find crews that can manage the
complexity of a steam plant.

John

Bruce Varley
Guest

Sun Jan 15, 2012 2:25 am

"John Larkin" <jjlarkin_at_highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote in message
news:6jv3h7hjjdlbljq1ari7qkm9g9fr4aj6ij_at_4ax.com...

Quote:

http://www.cnn.com/2012/01/14/world/europe/italy-cruise-deaths/index.html

What is with cruise ships? They are always having epidemics, power
failures, fires, food poisoning, and sinking.

I've only been on one, the QE2 from New York to France. I wanted to
visit the engine room, which is usually allowed, except that they'd
just had a big fire. The trip took 5 days because one boiler was still
out.

John

There's likely to be a simple explanation. The crew are as tanked up as the
passengers.

cruise ships

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