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Dreamer
Guest
Sun Jan 02, 2005 10:54 am
"First Ark to Alpha Centauri" - [A motion picture screenplay by A.
Ahad]
http://uk.geocities.com/aa_spaceagent/firstarktoalphacentauri.html
In this multi-generation voyage concept envisioned by Ahad, the 600
square km's of pine forests and lakes across the cylinder biosphere
will require nearly 2 million lights, each one has to provide solar
constant (1,350 watt per sq. metre) equivalent of flux.
"On a voyage spanning 50,000 years...", how much nuclear reserves would
be needed to carry onboard to meet just the lighting needs? Quite a bit
one thinks. Is there some electronic break throughs round the corner
for _low consumption_ and high durable _LED_ based lighting that could
be use? We have 170 years to go before Ahad's epic starship is launched
to the nearest star... So what is the outlook for this super-lighting
technology in the next few decades?
Jav
Jim Thompson
Guest
Sun Jan 02, 2005 9:53 pm
On Sun, 02 Jan 2005 21:43:39 GMT, "Kryten"
<kryten_droid_obfusticator_at_ntlworld.com> wrote:
Quote:
"Dreamer" <javidhussain_at_hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1104663271.364433.314240_at_z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
"First Ark to Alpha Centauri" - [A motion picture screenplay by A.
Ahad]
Call me mister boring if you will, but if humanity did manage to make such
an ark with 100% recycling and 45,000 years of fuel and life support, then
do they really even need to launch it?
I mean, you could just park it somewhere and get in it. That amount of time
is long enough to sit out some naturally-occurring ice ages, which are
massive climate swings compared with a greenhouse blip.
So you just sit inside, without worrying about meteorite impacts and gravity
generation etc.
Also, photosynthesis is very inefficient (c. 0.02%?) so they'd have to be
replaced by a more efficient CO2 to O2 processor.
IIRC, Tucson's Biosphere 2 Human Greenhouse was a flop.
...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
|
http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |
I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
Rich Grise
Guest
Sun Jan 02, 2005 10:29 pm
On Sun, 02 Jan 2005 02:54:31 -0800, Dreamer wrote:
Quote:
"First Ark to Alpha Centauri" - [A motion picture screenplay by A.
Ahad]
http://uk.geocities.com/aa_spaceagent/firstarktoalphacentauri.html
In this multi-generation voyage concept envisioned by Ahad, the 600
square km's of pine forests and lakes across the cylinder biosphere
will require nearly 2 million lights, each one has to provide solar
constant (1,350 watt per sq. metre) equivalent of flux.
"On a voyage spanning 50,000 years...", how much nuclear reserves would
be needed to carry onboard to meet just the lighting needs? Quite a bit
one thinks. Is there some electronic break throughs round the corner
for _low consumption_ and high durable _LED_ based lighting that could
be use? We have 170 years to go before Ahad's epic starship is launched
to the nearest star... So what is the outlook for this super-lighting
technology in the next few decades?
You don't need full sunlight throughout the ship, and you certainly don't
need it 24/7!
I say, if you've got generation ships, you must have fusion. So, find out
how much energy you get out from fusing lithium deuteride or whatever.
check newsgroups like news:sci.physics.fusion, news:alt.energy.nuclear,
news:alt.engr.nuclear, news:alt.engineering.nuclear, that sort of thing.
But every generation ship story I've read, they just ignored that and
concentrated on the inbreeding and revolutions and stuff.
Good Luck!
Rich
Pig Bladder
Guest
Sun Jan 02, 2005 10:32 pm
On Sun, 02 Jan 2005 02:54:31 -0800, Dreamer wrote:
Quote:
"First Ark to Alpha Centauri" - [A motion picture screenplay by A.
Ahad]
http://uk.geocities.com/aa_spaceagent/firstarktoalphacentauri.html
In this multi-generation voyage concept envisioned by Ahad, the 600
square km's of pine forests and lakes across the cylinder biosphere
will require nearly 2 million lights, each one has to provide solar
constant (1,350 watt per sq. metre) equivalent of flux.
"On a voyage spanning 50,000 years...", how much nuclear reserves would
be needed to carry onboard to meet just the lighting needs? Quite a bit
one thinks. Is there some electronic break throughs round the corner
for _low consumption_ and high durable _LED_ based lighting that could
be use? We have 170 years to go before Ahad's epic starship is launched
to the nearest star... So what is the outlook for this super-lighting
technology in the next few decades?
If you're just going to be in a big air tank, why go anywhere? There's a
lot of room in orbit around the Sun. What would all these tank-bred people
do with a planet anyway, if they found one?
--
The Pig Bladder From Uranus, Still Waiting for
Some Hot Babe to Ask What My Favorite Planet Is.
Kryten
Guest
Sun Jan 02, 2005 10:43 pm
"Dreamer" <javidhussain_at_hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1104663271.364433.314240_at_z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
Quote:
"First Ark to Alpha Centauri" - [A motion picture screenplay by A.
Ahad]
Call me mister boring if you will, but if humanity did manage to make such
an ark with 100% recycling and 45,000 years of fuel and life support, then
do they really even need to launch it?
I mean, you could just park it somewhere and get in it. That amount of time
is long enough to sit out some naturally-occurring ice ages, which are
massive climate swings compared with a greenhouse blip.
So you just sit inside, without worrying about meteorite impacts and gravity
generation etc.
Also, photosynthesis is very inefficient (c. 0.02%?) so they'd have to be
replaced by a more efficient CO2 to O2 processor.
John Woodgate
Guest
Sun Jan 02, 2005 10:52 pm
I read in sci.electronics.design that Pig Bladder
<pigbladder_at_neodruid.net> wrote (in <pan.2005.01.02.21.36.51.329221_at_neod
ruid.net>) about 'Colony ship to Alpha Centauri - The Motion Picture
Concept by A. Ahad', on Sun, 2 Jan 2005:
Quote:
If you're just going to be in a big air tank, why go anywhere? There's
a lot of room in orbit around the Sun.
Ringworld. A million-mile wide ribbon encircling what was Earth orbit.
Quote:
What would all these tank-bred
people do with a planet anyway, if they found one?
Indeed. Even though 'the stars are there', there would need to be a VERY
good reason to attempt the journey at subluminal speed.
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
The good news is that nothing is compulsory.
The bad news is that everything is prohibited.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see
http://www.isce.org.uk
Jim Thompson
Guest
Sun Jan 02, 2005 10:53 pm
On Sun, 02 Jan 2005 21:43:39 GMT, "Kryten"
<kryten_droid_obfusticator_at_ntlworld.com> wrote:
Quote:
"Dreamer" <javidhussain_at_hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1104663271.364433.314240_at_z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
"First Ark to Alpha Centauri" - [A motion picture screenplay by A.
Ahad]
Call me mister boring if you will, but if humanity did manage to make such
an ark with 100% recycling and 45,000 years of fuel and life support, then
do they really even need to launch it?
I mean, you could just park it somewhere and get in it. That amount of time
is long enough to sit out some naturally-occurring ice ages, which are
massive climate swings compared with a greenhouse blip.
So you just sit inside, without worrying about meteorite impacts and gravity
generation etc.
Also, photosynthesis is very inefficient (c. 0.02%?) so they'd have to be
replaced by a more efficient CO2 to O2 processor.
IIRC, Tucson's Biosphere 2 Human Greenhouse was a flop.
...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
|
http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |
I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
James Meyer
Guest
Sun Jan 02, 2005 11:33 pm
On Sun, 2 Jan 2005 21:52:08 +0000, John Woodgate <jmw_at_jmwa.demon.contraspam.yuk>
wroth:
Quote:
Indeed. Even though 'the stars are there', there would need to be a VERY
good reason to attempt the journey at subluminal speed.
Before I would undertake a trip like that, I would want to have received
an invitation from someone at the destination. Radio waves travel at pretty
close to the speed of light.
Jim
Clarence_A
Guest
Sun Jan 02, 2005 11:47 pm
"Jim Thompson" <thegreatone_at_example.com> wrote in message
Quote:
"Kryten" wrote:
"Dreamer" <javidhussain_at_hotmail.com> wrote in message
"First Ark to Alpha Centauri" - [A motion picture screenplay
by A.
Ahad]
snip
IIRC, Tucson's Biosphere 2 Human Greenhouse was a flop.
...Jim Thompson
This one?
http://www.bio2.com/index.html
Hope it wasn't build with tax monies.
Great place to raise tomatoes!
Ken Taylor
Guest
Mon Jan 03, 2005 12:21 am
"James Meyer" <jmeyer_at_nowhere.net> wrote in message
news:101ht0tuv2svm0pu759nha42325ook9qtv_at_4ax.com...
Quote:
On Sun, 2 Jan 2005 21:52:08 +0000, John Woodgate
jmw_at_jmwa.demon.contraspam.yuk
wroth:
Indeed. Even though 'the stars are there', there would need to be a VERY
good reason to attempt the journey at subluminal speed.
Before I would undertake a trip like that, I would want to have received
an invitation from someone at the destination. Radio waves travel at
pretty
close to the speed of light.
Jim
"Dear Entity:
You are cordially invited to a Colonization. Please BYO food and drinks.
Formal attire only."
Ken
Jim Thompson
Guest
Mon Jan 03, 2005 1:42 am
On Sun, 02 Jan 2005 23:47:48 GMT, "Clarence_A" <no_at_No.com> wrote:
Quote:
"Jim Thompson" <thegreatone_at_example.com> wrote in message
"Kryten" wrote:
"Dreamer" <javidhussain_at_hotmail.com> wrote in message
"First Ark to Alpha Centauri" - [A motion picture screenplay
by A.
Ahad]
snip
IIRC, Tucson's Biosphere 2 Human Greenhouse was a flop.
...Jim Thompson
This one?
http://www.bio2.com/index.html
Hope it wasn't build with tax monies.
Great place to raise tomatoes!
What do YOU think?
...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
| E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
|
http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |
I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
J. F. Cornwall
Guest
Mon Jan 03, 2005 3:00 am
Jim Thompson wrote:
Quote:
On Sun, 02 Jan 2005 21:43:39 GMT, "Kryten"
kryten_droid_obfusticator_at_ntlworld.com> wrote:
"Dreamer" <javidhussain_at_hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1104663271.364433.314240_at_z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
"First Ark to Alpha Centauri" - [A motion picture screenplay by A.
Ahad]
Call me mister boring if you will, but if humanity did manage to make such
an ark with 100% recycling and 45,000 years of fuel and life support, then
do they really even need to launch it?
I mean, you could just park it somewhere and get in it. That amount of time
is long enough to sit out some naturally-occurring ice ages, which are
massive climate swings compared with a greenhouse blip.
So you just sit inside, without worrying about meteorite impacts and gravity
generation etc.
Also, photosynthesis is very inefficient (c. 0.02%?) so they'd have to be
replaced by a more efficient CO2 to O2 processor.
IIRC, Tucson's Biosphere 2 Human Greenhouse was a flop.
...Jim Thompson
Nah, it was a successful experiment that pointed out a lot of
technologies that did not work as intended. Negative results are as
important as positive ones.
JFC
Kryten
Guest
Mon Jan 03, 2005 6:00 am
"Ken Taylor" <ken_at_home.nz> wrote in message
news:%c0Cd.4569$mo2.269660_at_news.xtra.co.nz...
Quote:
"Dear Entity:
You are cordially invited to a Colonization. Please BYO food and drinks.
Formal attire only."
"Dear humans,
You've ruined your own planet.
If you expect a welcome to our planet you're even dumber.
Stay home and sort your own damn mess out.
How many anal probings does it take to persuade you to stay at home?
Don't come here, even if you are edible."
John Woodgate
Guest
Mon Jan 03, 2005 7:30 am
I read in sci.electronics.design that Jim Thompson
<thegreatone_at_example.com> wrote (in <k9rgt0pn6abgccogl3pibuff0ccsa8c5nd@
4ax.com>) about 'Colony ship to Alpha Centauri - The Motion Picture
Concept by A. Ahad', on Sun, 2 Jan 2005:
Quote:
IIRC, Tucson's Biosphere 2 Human Greenhouse was a flop.
But that was only the second prototype. If such projects are continued,
they will work after a while.
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
The good news is that nothing is compulsory.
The bad news is that everything is prohibited.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see
http://www.isce.org.uk
JeffM
Guest
Mon Jan 03, 2005 8:23 am
Quote:
if humanity did [make] an ark with 100% recycling
and 45,000 years of fuel and life support,
then do they really even need to launch it?
Kryten
IIRC, Tucson's Biosphere 2 Human Greenhouse was a flop.
Jim Thompson
They underestimated how much land and biomass it took to support a
human.
The residents were soon on partial rations.
Heh. If it wasn't for water imports,
the L.A. Basin would be nothing more than a few scattered villages.
http://www.google.com/search?&q=los-angeles-basin+could-naturally-support-*-people
Quote:
photosynthesis is very inefficient (c. 0.02%?)
so they'd have to be replaced by a more efficient CO2 to O2 processor.
Biosphere II pointed out their lousy calculations on that too
--they had to "open the windows".
Cornwall is right; failed experiments can be important too.
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