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Mike Harrison
Guest
Thu Aug 19, 2010 11:42 pm
Quote:
ROHS is easy to comply with if sourcing known components from reputable
companies.
but nobody is ever going to find the odd bit of lead.
Mike Harrison
Guest
Thu Aug 19, 2010 11:44 pm
Quote:
If your project cant afford a test, then its unlikely that you will ever
get sued for not being within specs. You are just "noise" in the marked.
This is for a niche market, though any market has competitors who can play
informer to the authorities.
Who are probably running exactly the same risk as you.
Quote:
It's difficult to justify a cost of several £000s on a relatively small unit
where the maket may be just 100 per year.
On the other hand, be sure that nobody can get killed by touching your
product. And that it doesnt burn down the building if something fails.
Then you can put the CE mark on it and sleep well at nights.
I would put my hand up and say that good safe working practices have been
followed. Also the power supply will be a wall-wart, which will have its
own certification.
Don't believe everything you read on PSU labels. Take one apart to check build quality.
Mike Harrison
Guest
Thu Aug 19, 2010 11:46 pm
On Thu, 19 Aug 2010 18:13:55 GMT, nico_at_puntnl.niks (Nico Coesel) wrote:
Quote:
"Fredxx" <fredxx_at_spam.com> wrote:
"Nico Coesel" <nico_at_puntnl.niks> wrote in message
news:4c6c3aef.2204064734_at_news.planet.nl...
fredxx_at_spam.com> wrote:
I have a small electronic unit which needs some CE compliance testing.
Cost is a major issue and was wondering if anyone here can offer advice on
an affordable solution.
If you are located within Europe CE conformation is just a matter of
putting a CE sticker on your product. It really is simple as that. The
sticker says you take responsibility for the product.
If you really want compliance testing then it is advisable to find a
company with an EMC test setup to do some pre-compliance testing. This
will tell you where the problem areas are. Next you'll need a spectrum
analyzer to find the problem areas in your product.
This is a very cheap one but it does the job:
http://www.door2doorshop.com/wholesale/Atten-Spectrum-Analyzer-AT6011-213.html
If you shop on Ebay you can get these for half the price (new
ofcourse).
The last step is shopping around for a cheap EMC lab.
I am aware that you can self certify, but I wanted to collate some evidence
that it would actually pass the EMC requirements, especially for radiated
emissions. I'm very confident about the rest.
I can see the cost of a spectrum analyser is a fraction of the cost of any
assessment or testing by an EMC lab. Many thanks for the pointer and am
looking on eBay for suitable equipment.
One thing that does bother me still, is sourcing wideband aerials suitable
for measure field strength.
Don't bother. They will be more expensive than renting a lab to do
pre-compliance testing. Without a properly shielded cage (which is
difficult to construct anyway) it is difficult to test. For bench
testing a small pick-up loop is much more usefull to identify the
exact source of the excess radiation.
Yes - unless you live in the middle of the arctic, or down a mine, there is so much ambient that
it's impossible to get any meaningful measurements outside of a shielded anechoic room.
Morten Leikvoll
Guest
Fri Aug 20, 2010 8:09 am
"Fredxx" <fredxx_at_spam.com> wrote in message
news:i4jh01$ukp$1_at_news.eternal-september.org...
Quote:
This is for a niche market, though any market has competitors who can play
informer to the authorities.
I would not worry (I used to worry too). The authorities has a lot more
important work to do than chasing low qty products that has a tiny bit more
radiation than the papers allow.
Stef
Guest
Fri Aug 20, 2010 8:43 am
In comp.arch.fpga,
Morten Leikvoll <mleikvol_at_yahoo.nospam> wrote:
Quote:
"Fredxx" <fredxx_at_spam.com> wrote in message
news:i4jh01$ukp$1_at_news.eternal-september.org...
This is for a niche market, though any market has competitors who can play
informer to the authorities.
I would not worry (I used to worry too). The authorities has a lot more
important work to do than chasing low qty products that has a tiny bit more
radiation than the papers allow.
They may not actively chase for such products, but when a complaint is
made (by, for example, that competitor) they will have to follow that up.
And although it may not happen very often, I have seen it happen, twice.
And how do you know you're only 'a tiny bit' over the limits without
actually measuring your device? Take a simple oscillator chip and
connect it to the 'wrong' trace, emissions will go through the roof.
There is no requirement to actually do measurements, you just have to be
under the limits. How you make sure you are, is up to you. If you can
calculate and simulate everything, that may be enough proof you honestly
believe that your device is under the limits. I have not seen that happen,
just measuring is usually simpler.
And even good measurements are not a complete guarantee your device is
always under the limits. These measurements are just scans through the
required frequency range. And if your device produces short burst, they
may be missed in those scans. But at least you have evidence that you
did all you could to make sure your device is under the limits.
--
Stef (remove caps, dashes and .invalid from e-mail address to reply by mail)
The world needs more people like us and fewer like them.
Nico Coesel
Guest
Fri Aug 20, 2010 6:30 pm
Stef <stef33d_at_yahooI-N-V-A-L-I-D.com.invalid> wrote:
Quote:
In comp.arch.fpga,
Morten Leikvoll <mleikvol_at_yahoo.nospam> wrote:
"Fredxx" <fredxx_at_spam.com> wrote in message
news:i4jh01$ukp$1_at_news.eternal-september.org...
This is for a niche market, though any market has competitors who can play
informer to the authorities.
I would not worry (I used to worry too). The authorities has a lot more
important work to do than chasing low qty products that has a tiny bit more
radiation than the papers allow.
They may not actively chase for such products, but when a complaint is
made (by, for example, that competitor) they will have to follow that up.
And although it may not happen very often, I have seen it happen, twice.
And how do you know you're only 'a tiny bit' over the limits without
actually measuring your device? Take a simple oscillator chip and
connect it to the 'wrong' trace, emissions will go through the roof.
There is no requirement to actually do measurements, you just have to be
under the limits. How you make sure you are, is up to you. If you can
calculate and simulate everything, that may be enough proof you honestly
believe that your device is under the limits. I have not seen that happen,
just measuring is usually simpler.
And even good measurements are not a complete guarantee your device is
always under the limits. These measurements are just scans through the
required frequency range. And if your device produces short burst, they
may be missed in those scans. But at least you have evidence that you
did all you could to make sure your device is under the limits.
The tests are well specified. The measured values are averages, not
peak values. It often helps to use a spread-spectrum oscillator so the
peak is smeared out over a wider band.
--
Failure does not prove something is impossible, failure simply
indicates you are not using the right tools...
nico_at_nctdevpuntnl (punt=.)
--------------------------------------------------------------
Stef
Guest
Fri Aug 20, 2010 11:36 pm
In comp.arch.fpga,
Nico Coesel <nico_at_puntnl.niks> wrote:
Quote:
Stef <stef33d_at_yahooI-N-V-A-L-I-D.com.invalid> wrote:
And even good measurements are not a complete guarantee your device is
always under the limits. These measurements are just scans through the
required frequency range. And if your device produces short burst, they
may be missed in those scans. But at least you have evidence that you
did all you could to make sure your device is under the limits.
The tests are well specified. The measured values are averages, not
peak values. It often helps to use a spread-spectrum oscillator so the
peak is smeared out over a wider band.
No, not averages, but quasi-peak.
But that measurement is a scan of the required frequency range, a
measurement receiver can not monitor the entire band simultaniously.
So if your device emits bursts of, lets say, 0.1 seconds every few
seconds, there is a possibility they will be missed in the measurement.
And next time you measure that same device, it may just pop up as an
unpleasant surprise.
The (well known) place where we do most of our measurements actually
does a very quick (under half an hour) peak scan and after that just
measures the ten or so highest peaks with the required quasi-peak
detector. Doing the entire scan with quasi-peak would take hours.
--
Stef (remove caps, dashes and .invalid from e-mail address to reply by mail)
Peace is much more precious than a piece of land... let there be no more wars.
-- Mohammed Anwar Sadat, 1918-1981
Leon
Guest
Sat Aug 21, 2010 12:01 am
On 18 Aug, 17:11, "Fredxx" <fre...@spam.com> wrote:
Quote:
I have a small electronic unit which needs some CE compliance testing.
Cost is a major issue and was wondering if anyone here can offer advice on
an affordable solution.
Where I used to work they hire the testing facility for half a day,
and do their own initial testing. They then fix any problems and the
product usually passes the formal tests without any problems.
Michael Schwingen
Guest
Sun Aug 22, 2010 9:19 am
On 2010-08-19, Symon <symon_brewer_at_hotmail.com> wrote:
Quote:
I have no idea if this is appropriate to your situation, but you might
avoid a lot of the CE compliance issues by using a wall-wart or somesuch
which is already CE marked. Then all the mains powered stuff is
pre-certified by someone else. Get one with a ferrite thingy near the DC
jack!
For Safety, Yes - EMC, not necessarily. I just had a case where a product
with a wall-wart was above the allowed conducted emissions on the mains,
with the cause being in the product, not the wall-wart. Adding common-mode
filtering fixed that, so a ferrite in the DC cable might have been
sufficient.
cu
Michael
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