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Martin Brown
Guest

Tue Mar 12, 2019 12:45 pm   



On 08/03/2019 08:12, Robert Baer wrote:
Quote:
VanguardLH wrote:

I'm curious.  Why do you want and old, used, and worn but working
printer when you could get a new one and probebly with more features?
What does buying an unsupported and used printer get you that you cannot
get with a new printer?  Unless you find a local seller to eliminate the

  I have a number of ink cartridges for the BC 4100; cartridges for the
newer printers are as expensive or more and AFAIK cannot be refilled.
  Furthermore,one cannot do a DOS print (you know, COPY TextFile.TXT
LPT1:).
  Oh,yes..a number of those fancy printers do not work if the color
cartridge is missing or empty.


Reverse engineered cartridge chips for the BJ5000 series and refills
have been available for at least 5 years now. Unless you really need
backwards compatibility with some antique geriatric computer that is
probably about to fail horribly anyway it might be worth picking a newer
Canon printer model still available second hand but less decrepit.

I chose iX6550 for A3+ and an almost straight paper path and MG5350 as a
stand alone multifunction. Laser printer takes most of the daily grind.
The inkjets are handy for quick high quality colour prints and larger
posters sizes (and printing onto thicker materials like thick card).
Both take exactly the same 525 & 526 series cartridges.

Some refilling sites explain how to use older cartridges in newer
printers (not for the faint hearted). I just use clone cartridges.

https://www.octoink.co.uk/kb/questions/106/Refilling+Canon+PGI-525%7B47%7DCLI-526+and+PGI-225%7B47%7DCLI-226

Duplex monochrome laser is hard to beat as a workhorse. It really
depends critically on what your monthly print volume is as to which
solution is the best one. Inkjets consume ink each time you switch them
on from cold and if you leave them to dry out periodically then a full
cleaning cycle really does use a lot of ink to no good end. By
comparison a laser printer will work first time after months unused.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

Robert Baer
Guest

Sat Mar 16, 2019 7:00 am   



Martin Brown wrote:
Quote:
On 08/03/2019 08:12, Robert Baer wrote:
VanguardLH wrote:

I'm curious.  Why do you want and old, used, and worn but working
printer when you could get a new one and probebly with more features?
What does buying an unsupported and used printer get you that you cannot
get with a new printer?  Unless you find a local seller to eliminate the

   I have a number of ink cartridges for the BC 4100; cartridges for
the newer printers are as expensive or more and AFAIK cannot be refilled.
   Furthermore,one cannot do a DOS print (you know, COPY TextFile.TXT
LPT1:).
   Oh,yes..a number of those fancy printers do not work if the color
cartridge is missing or empty.

Reverse engineered cartridge chips for the BJ5000 series and refills
have been available for at least 5 years now. Unless you really need
backwards compatibility with some antique geriatric computer that is
probably about to fail horribly anyway it might be worth picking a newer
Canon printer model still available second hand but less decrepit.

I chose iX6550 for A3+ and an almost straight paper path and MG5350 as a
stand alone multifunction. Laser printer takes most of the daily grind.
The inkjets are handy for quick high quality colour prints and larger
posters sizes (and printing onto thicker materials like thick card).
Both take exactly the same 525 & 526 series cartridges.

Some refilling sites explain how to use older cartridges in newer
printers (not for the faint hearted). I just use clone cartridges.

https://www.octoink.co.uk/kb/questions/106/Refilling+Canon+PGI-525%7B47%7DCLI-526+and+PGI-225%7B47%7DCLI-226


Duplex monochrome laser is hard to beat as a workhorse. It really
depends critically on what your monthly print volume is as to which
solution is the best one. Inkjets consume ink each time you switch them
on from cold and if you leave them to dry out periodically then a full
cleaning cycle really does use a lot of ink to no good end. By
comparison a laser printer will work first time after months unused.

* How about a laser printer, abandoned after almost no use (still had
starter cartridge),left to the elements (rained a few nights), set to
dry in house 3 days and work 100% FIRST TIME thereafter?
3 months later, tried again and STILL WORKS OK.

Do you not hate reliable stuff?
How does one support a throw-away "economy"???

>

Michael Kellett
Guest

Sat Mar 16, 2019 2:45 pm   



On 06/03/2019 01:54, Robert Baer wrote:
Quote:
  I am interested in obtaining a working Canon BJC printer, series 4000
preferred.
  Please contact me if you can help.

  Thanks.
R. Baer

I have a Cannon BJ-10ex here (South West Scotland).
Hasn't been used for very many years - not tested.

Free any time you're passing by.

MK


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Robert Baer
Guest

Sun Mar 17, 2019 7:45 am   



Michael Kellett wrote:
Quote:
On 06/03/2019 01:54, Robert Baer wrote:
   I am interested in obtaining a working Canon BJC printer, series
4000 preferred.
   Please contact me if you can help.

   Thanks.
R. Baer
I have a Cannon BJ-10ex here (South West Scotland).
Hasn't been used for very many years - not tested.

Free any time you're passing by.

MK


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https://www.avg.com

I very much appreciate the offer, and the price is commensurate to
the estimated functionality.
However, i do not swim that far (am in the US) and refuse to get near
the unconstitutional Airline Gestapo here.


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Mat Nieuwenhoven
Guest

Sun Mar 17, 2019 11:45 pm   



On Fri, 15 Mar 2019 22:00:18 -0700, Robert Baer wrote:

<snip>
Quote:
Duplex monochrome laser is hard to beat as a workhorse. It really
depends critically on what your monthly print volume is as to which
solution is the best one. Inkjets consume ink each time you switch them
on from cold and if you leave them to dry out periodically then a full
cleaning cycle really does use a lot of ink to no good end. By
comparison a laser printer will work first time after months unused.
* How about a laser printer, abandoned after almost no use (still had
starter cartridge),left to the elements (rained a few nights), set to
dry in house 3 days and work 100% FIRST TIME thereafter?
3 months later, tried again and STILL WORKS OK.


In another part of this thread I referenced a comparison between
office multifunction (copier/printer/scanner) lasers and an Epson
'large tank" inkjet model.
As part of the test, the Epson was orderly shutdown/powered of, left
in storage for 2 months, and worked immediately after that. I don't
think they tested for rain...

For all the inkjets I used (mostly Canon), I never had that problem
that after proper shutdown it wouldn't work.

Mat Nieuwenhoven

Robert Baer
Guest

Mon Mar 18, 2019 6:45 pm   



Mat Nieuwenhoven wrote:
Quote:
On Fri, 15 Mar 2019 22:00:18 -0700, Robert Baer wrote:

snip
Duplex monochrome laser is hard to beat as a workhorse. It really
depends critically on what your monthly print volume is as to which
solution is the best one. Inkjets consume ink each time you switch them
on from cold and if you leave them to dry out periodically then a full
cleaning cycle really does use a lot of ink to no good end. By
comparison a laser printer will work first time after months unused.
* How about a laser printer, abandoned after almost no use (still had
starter cartridge),left to the elements (rained a few nights), set to
dry in house 3 days and work 100% FIRST TIME thereafter?
3 months later, tried again and STILL WORKS OK.


In another part of this thread I referenced a comparison between
office multifunction (copier/printer/scanner) lasers and an Epson
'large tank" inkjet model.
As part of the test, the Epson was orderly shutdown/powered of, left
in storage for 2 months, and worked immediately after that. I don't
think they tested for rain...

For all the inkjets I used (mostly Canon), I never had that problem
that after proper shutdown it wouldn't work.

Mat Nieuwenhoven


Yes..the Canon inkjets do seem to have functional longevity..until
something mechanical fails, forcing the toss function to be implemented...


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Mat Nieuwenhoven
Guest

Tue Mar 19, 2019 8:45 am   



On Mon, 18 Mar 2019 09:31:46 -0800, Robert Baer wrote:

Quote:
Mat Nieuwenhoven wrote:
On Fri, 15 Mar 2019 22:00:18 -0700, Robert Baer wrote:

snip
Duplex monochrome laser is hard to beat as a workhorse. It really
depends critically on what your monthly print volume is as to which
solution is the best one. Inkjets consume ink each time you switch them
on from cold and if you leave them to dry out periodically then a full
cleaning cycle really does use a lot of ink to no good end. By
comparison a laser printer will work first time after months unused.
* How about a laser printer, abandoned after almost no use (still had
starter cartridge),left to the elements (rained a few nights), set to
dry in house 3 days and work 100% FIRST TIME thereafter?
3 months later, tried again and STILL WORKS OK.


In another part of this thread I referenced a comparison between
office multifunction (copier/printer/scanner) lasers and an Epson
'large tank" inkjet model.
As part of the test, the Epson was orderly shutdown/powered of, left
in storage for 2 months, and worked immediately after that. I don't
think they tested for rain...

For all the inkjets I used (mostly Canon), I never had that problem
that after proper shutdown it wouldn't work.

Mat Nieuwenhoven


Yes..the Canon inkjets do seem to have functional longevity..until
something mechanical fails, forcing the toss function to be implemented...


Or the ink spillage container gets full. I had to clean it on my
previous printer, a IP4000. I hope I can do the same with my current
Canon when the times comes.

Mat Nieuwenhoven

Jeff Liebermann
Guest

Wed Mar 20, 2019 2:45 am   



On Sun, 10 Mar 2019 21:49:51 +0100 (CET), "Mat Nieuwenhoven"
<mnieuw_at_zap.a2000.nl> wrote:

Quote:
If you
claim otherwise, show me the (tested) numbers.


I do computer and printer repair to support my decadent lifestyle. I
have some opinions on operating costs and cost of ownership, but have
not done any detailed studies. I have noticed that an inkjet printer
owner will often recycle the inkjet and purchase a color laser or LED
printer. I have never seen a color laser printer owner discard the
color laser and purchase an inkjet as its replacement. Also, the
color laser printers tend to be used as printing presses and often
arrive with 70,000 pages printed on the counter. Most of the inkjet
printers I drag to the recycler are dead after about 8,000 pages.

Lately, I've been repairing various Brother laser and LED printers. (I
no longer do inkjets). These printers are admittedly poor quality,
but will last forever if they are kept clean. I recently fixed a poor
print quality problem on my dentists Brother MFC-9340CDW color LED
printer by simply cleaning the LED's and emptying the toner waste bin.
<https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=brother+mfc-9340cdw>

This printer originally cost about $450 and currently shows about
80,000 pages printed:
$450 / 80,000 = $0.0056/page

A set of 5 replacement TN221 toner cartridges cost $36 on eBay for
2Blk and 1each of the other colors:
<https://www.ebay.com/itm/233005219471>
A set of carts lasts about 1,800 pages at:
$36 / 1,800 = $0.0200/page

A replacement BU220CL belt is a good idea after every 50,000 pages.
<https://www.ebay.com/itm/202627986222>
$80 / 50,000 = $0.0160/page

The printer needed a replacement flimsy "film" in the fuser. This is
normally a $10 item, but since there were a few scratches in the fuser
drum, I decided to replace the entire assembly:
<https://www.amazon.com/Genuine-Brother-MFC-9340CDW-110-120V-LY6753001/dp/B076JLMC9X/>
The printer shows about 80,000 pages, so that's:
$155 / 80,000 = $0.0019/page

I haven't submitted an invoice for all this yet, but my guess is about
$150 labor every 50,000 pages:
$150 / 50,000 = $0.0030/page

Good 22 pound paper costs about $6/ream:
$6 / 500 = $0.0120

Total for purchase price, supplies, and labor:
$0.0056 + $0.02 + $0.0160 + $0.0019 + $0.0030 + $0.0120
= $0.0585/page

Notice that the largest operating expense for this printer is the
$0.0200/page for toner. Were this replaced by factory toner purchased
at retail prices from an authorized dealer, that would increase to
about $300:
<https://www.officedepot.com/catalog/search.do?Ntt=tn-221>
$300 / 1,800 = $0.17/page
or 8.5 times higher than eBay toner. I think this is why your "tested
numbers" are so high for laser and LED printers. At those prices, you
could ignore the initial cost of the printer and all the other
operating and maintenance costs, and simply compare the costs of the
replacement toner and ink. I don't have time to do that right now,
but I think you'll find that laser and LED printer toner is much
cheaper per page than inkjet ink. I could also do a similar cost of
ownership price estimate for a comparable inkjet printer but that
should be easy enough using my calculations as a template.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl_at_cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Mat Nieuwenhoven
Guest

Thu Mar 21, 2019 4:45 pm   



On Tue, 19 Mar 2019 18:15:46 -0700, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

Quote:
On Sun, 10 Mar 2019 21:49:51 +0100 (CET), "Mat Nieuwenhoven"
mnieuw_at_zap.a2000.nl> wrote:

If you
claim otherwise, show me the (tested) numbers.

I do computer and printer repair to support my decadent lifestyle. I
have some opinions on operating costs and cost of ownership, but have
not done any detailed studies. I have noticed that an inkjet printer
owner will often recycle the inkjet and purchase a color laser or LED
printer. I have never seen a color laser printer owner discard the
color laser and purchase an inkjet as its replacement. Also, the
color laser printers tend to be used as printing presses and often
arrive with 70,000 pages printed on the counter. Most of the inkjet
printers I drag to the recycler are dead after about 8,000 pages.

Lately, I've been repairing various Brother laser and LED printers. (I
no longer do inkjets). These printers are admittedly poor quality,
but will last forever if they are kept clean. I recently fixed a poor
print quality problem on my dentists Brother MFC-9340CDW color LED
printer by simply cleaning the LED's and emptying the toner waste bin.
https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=brother+mfc-9340cdw

This printer originally cost about $450 and currently shows about
80,000 pages printed:
$450 / 80,000 = $0.0056/page

A set of 5 replacement TN221 toner cartridges cost $36 on eBay for
2Blk and 1each of the other colors:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/233005219471
A set of carts lasts about 1,800 pages at:
$36 / 1,800 = $0.0200/page

A replacement BU220CL belt is a good idea after every 50,000 pages.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/202627986222
$80 / 50,000 = $0.0160/page

The printer needed a replacement flimsy "film" in the fuser. This is
normally a $10 item, but since there were a few scratches in the fuser
drum, I decided to replace the entire assembly:
https://www.amazon.com/Genuine-Brother-MFC-9340CDW-110-120V-LY6753001/dp/B076JLMC9X/
The printer shows about 80,000 pages, so that's:
$155 / 80,000 = $0.0019/page

I haven't submitted an invoice for all this yet, but my guess is about
$150 labor every 50,000 pages:
$150 / 50,000 = $0.0030/page

Good 22 pound paper costs about $6/ream:
$6 / 500 = $0.0120

Total for purchase price, supplies, and labor:
$0.0056 + $0.02 + $0.0160 + $0.0019 + $0.0030 + $0.0120
= $0.0585/page

Notice that the largest operating expense for this printer is the
$0.0200/page for toner. Were this replaced by factory toner purchased
at retail prices from an authorized dealer, that would increase to
about $300:
https://www.officedepot.com/catalog/search.do?Ntt=tn-221
$300 / 1,800 = $0.17/page
or 8.5 times higher than eBay toner. I think this is why your "tested
numbers" are so high for laser and LED printers. At those prices, you
could ignore the initial cost of the printer and all the other
operating and maintenance costs, and simply compare the costs of the
replacement toner and ink. I don't have time to do that right now,
but I think you'll find that laser and LED printer toner is much
cheaper per page than inkjet ink. I could also do a similar cost of
ownership price estimate for a comparable inkjet printer but that
should be easy enough using my calculations as a template.


Thanks you for this detailed report. The magazine tested also a
Brother multifunctional, the DCP-L2550DW. The toner cartridge TN2420
(at Brother prices) is 116 for 3000 pages, so 3+ cents/ page. The
drum 115/12000 pages, so 0.9 ct/page. Non-original toner from a
reputable webshop is 48/3300 pages, so 1.4 ct/page. This is in line
with the $0.0200/page you calculated.
Note that the Epson was at 0,28 ct/page including maintanace kit,
compared to the Brother's 3.9 ct, both official prices. For a laser a
3rd party toner is less critical than for a inkjet, I think.

Indeed most costs are toner and paper, mostly toner. My HP colorlok
paper for the inkjet is 3.3/500 pages, thus 0.67 ct/page.

Mat Nieuwenhoven

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