elektroda.net NewsGroups Forum Index - Electronics Design - Bloom Energy Servers
amdx
Guest
Guest
Thu Mar 11, 2010 9:30 pm
I caught the piece on 60 Minutes about Bloom Energy, and just know
watched the videos on the Bloom energy website. They now have
many units in the field that are providing power to specific office
buildings although I don't see anyone talk about 100% powered
by the Bloom energy Servers. These are run from natural gas as well as
propane and biofuel.
In the videos they mention that the Bloomboxes will store as well as
produce electricity. Their hope is to unite the Bloombox with solar
collectors that produce electricity in the day, store it in the Bloombox
and have it produce electricity when there is no sun.
They do talk about them being cost effective after talking about it being
green
and carbon footprint reducing. I'd rather see them stress the cost
effectiveness,
however it is mentioned that if you have one at your office of home you want
it
clean. A power plant 50 miles away spewing pollutants doesn't bother you
like
one 50 ft away.
I'm skeptic but I hope they really have a usable cost effective technology.
If you want to watch the videos skip the first one (Boy with airplane)
unless you
want to hear Arnold Schwarzenegger.
Like to hear your input
Mike
Jon Slaughter
Guest
Guest
Thu Mar 11, 2010 9:51 pm
amdx wrote:
Quote:
I caught the piece on 60 Minutes about Bloom Energy, and just know
watched the videos on the Bloom energy website. They now have
many units in the field that are providing power to specific office
buildings although I don't see anyone talk about 100% powered
by the Bloom energy Servers. These are run from natural gas as well as
propane and biofuel.
In the videos they mention that the Bloomboxes will store as well as
produce electricity. Their hope is to unite the Bloombox with solar
collectors that produce electricity in the day, store it in the
Bloombox and have it produce electricity when there is no sun.
They do talk about them being cost effective after talking about it
being green
and carbon footprint reducing. I'd rather see them stress the cost
effectiveness,
however it is mentioned that if you have one at your office of home
you want it
clean. A power plant 50 miles away spewing pollutants doesn't bother
you like
one 50 ft away.
I'm skeptic but I hope they really have a usable cost effective
technology. If you want to watch the videos skip the first one (Boy
with airplane) unless you
want to hear Arnold Schwarzenegger.
Like to hear your input
Mike
watched the videos on the Bloom energy website. They now have
many units in the field that are providing power to specific office
buildings although I don't see anyone talk about 100% powered
by the Bloom energy Servers. These are run from natural gas as well as
propane and biofuel.
In the videos they mention that the Bloomboxes will store as well as
produce electricity. Their hope is to unite the Bloombox with solar
collectors that produce electricity in the day, store it in the
Bloombox and have it produce electricity when there is no sun.
They do talk about them being cost effective after talking about it
being green
and carbon footprint reducing. I'd rather see them stress the cost
effectiveness,
however it is mentioned that if you have one at your office of home
you want it
clean. A power plant 50 miles away spewing pollutants doesn't bother
you like
one 50 ft away.
I'm skeptic but I hope they really have a usable cost effective
technology. If you want to watch the videos skip the first one (Boy
with airplane) unless you
want to hear Arnold Schwarzenegger.
Like to hear your input
Mike
I stumbled on this about two weeks ago. My first reactionw as that it was a
scam. After hearing that many fortune 500 companies were using this
technology I thought that it might actually be something. It is a bit hyped
in that it is not completely green and I believe the technology is in an
infancy. I hear that there are also other companies that are further head
then this one.
The good thing is that it might be a step in the right direction. The bad
news is that one can expect propane costs to explode if this takes off. What
I would like to know is the actual efficiency of the product. If it is no
more efficient than running a generator off the propane then whats the
point?
IMO nuclear is still the clear winner and probably always will be. This type
of technology *might* be the next best thing...
Martin Brown
Guest
Guest
Fri Mar 12, 2010 12:30 am
amdx wrote:
Quote:
I caught the piece on 60 Minutes about Bloom Energy, and just know
watched the videos on the Bloom energy website. They now have
many units in the field that are providing power to specific office
buildings although I don't see anyone talk about 100% powered
by the Bloom energy Servers. These are run from natural gas as well as
propane and biofuel.
watched the videos on the Bloom energy website. They now have
many units in the field that are providing power to specific office
buildings although I don't see anyone talk about 100% powered
by the Bloom energy Servers. These are run from natural gas as well as
propane and biofuel.
It has come up before fairly recently. I confess I am sceptical in that
I cannot see where these units dump their waste heat. What he seems to
have done is make mass produced self healing fuel cells that are
tolerant of different fuels. And probably run rather hot inside the box.
Other fuel cell technologies exist but are rather fussy about what they
will burn. It annoyed me intensely when I visited the UK renewable
hydrogen economy exhibition in Trafalgar Square. The exhibition was
powered by an ugly smelly diesel generator on tickover when there were
two or three full scale fuel cell plants there capable of powering a
telephone exchange stood idle on the stands.
Quote:
In the videos they mention that the Bloomboxes will store as well as
produce electricity. Their hope is to unite the Bloombox with solar
collectors that produce electricity in the day, store it in the Bloombox
and have it produce electricity when there is no sun.
produce electricity. Their hope is to unite the Bloombox with solar
collectors that produce electricity in the day, store it in the Bloombox
and have it produce electricity when there is no sun.
This sounds more like the marketing men speaking. His client list does
look impressive though. Time will tell if it is a flyer. It may even be
relevant to telephone exchanges as backup power.
If it really works then power grids may become a thing of the past.
Quote:
They do talk about them being cost effective after talking about it being
green
and carbon footprint reducing. I'd rather see them stress the cost
effectiveness,
however it is mentioned that if you have one at your office of home you want
it
clean. A power plant 50 miles away spewing pollutants doesn't bother you
like
one 50 ft away.
I'm skeptic but I hope they really have a usable cost effective technology.
If you want to watch the videos skip the first one (Boy with airplane)
unless you
want to hear Arnold Schwarzenegger.
Like to hear your input
A definite maybe. I would like to see some figures for the claimed
thermodynamic efficiency fuel in, electric power out and waste heat.
Regards,
Martin Brown
Robert Baer
Guest
Guest
Fri Mar 12, 2010 12:58 pm
Jon Slaughter wrote:
Quote:
amdx wrote:
I caught the piece on 60 Minutes about Bloom Energy, and just know
watched the videos on the Bloom energy website. They now have
many units in the field that are providing power to specific office
buildings although I don't see anyone talk about 100% powered
by the Bloom energy Servers. These are run from natural gas as well as
propane and biofuel.
In the videos they mention that the Bloomboxes will store as well as
produce electricity. Their hope is to unite the Bloombox with solar
collectors that produce electricity in the day, store it in the
Bloombox and have it produce electricity when there is no sun.
They do talk about them being cost effective after talking about it
being green
and carbon footprint reducing. I'd rather see them stress the cost
effectiveness,
however it is mentioned that if you have one at your office of home
you want it
clean. A power plant 50 miles away spewing pollutants doesn't bother
you like
one 50 ft away.
I'm skeptic but I hope they really have a usable cost effective
technology. If you want to watch the videos skip the first one (Boy
with airplane) unless you
want to hear Arnold Schwarzenegger.
Like to hear your input
Mike
I stumbled on this about two weeks ago. My first reactionw as that it
was a scam. After hearing that many fortune 500 companies were using
this technology I thought that it might actually be something. It is a
bit hyped in that it is not completely green and I believe the
technology is in an infancy. I hear that there are also other companies
that are further head then this one.
The good thing is that it might be a step in the right direction. The
bad news is that one can expect propane costs to explode if this takes
off. What I would like to know is the actual efficiency of the product.
If it is no more efficient than running a generator off the propane then
whats the point?
IMO nuclear is still the clear winner and probably always will be. This
type of technology *might* be the next best thing...
One could convert from propane to LNG, as gas is cheap as all
I caught the piece on 60 Minutes about Bloom Energy, and just know
watched the videos on the Bloom energy website. They now have
many units in the field that are providing power to specific office
buildings although I don't see anyone talk about 100% powered
by the Bloom energy Servers. These are run from natural gas as well as
propane and biofuel.
In the videos they mention that the Bloomboxes will store as well as
produce electricity. Their hope is to unite the Bloombox with solar
collectors that produce electricity in the day, store it in the
Bloombox and have it produce electricity when there is no sun.
They do talk about them being cost effective after talking about it
being green
and carbon footprint reducing. I'd rather see them stress the cost
effectiveness,
however it is mentioned that if you have one at your office of home
you want it
clean. A power plant 50 miles away spewing pollutants doesn't bother
you like
one 50 ft away.
I'm skeptic but I hope they really have a usable cost effective
technology. If you want to watch the videos skip the first one (Boy
with airplane) unless you
want to hear Arnold Schwarzenegger.
Like to hear your input
Mike
I stumbled on this about two weeks ago. My first reactionw as that it
was a scam. After hearing that many fortune 500 companies were using
this technology I thought that it might actually be something. It is a
bit hyped in that it is not completely green and I believe the
technology is in an infancy. I hear that there are also other companies
that are further head then this one.
The good thing is that it might be a step in the right direction. The
bad news is that one can expect propane costs to explode if this takes
off. What I would like to know is the actual efficiency of the product.
If it is no more efficient than running a generator off the propane then
whats the point?
IMO nuclear is still the clear winner and probably always will be. This
type of technology *might* be the next best thing...
One could convert from propane to LNG, as gas is cheap as all
get-out; gas storage facilities are either full or close to it and gas
production is increasing..
Mark Zenier
Guest
Guest
Fri Mar 12, 2010 6:58 pm
In article <raemn.1315$%H1.467_at_newsfe23.iad>,
Martin Brown <|||newspam|||@nezumi.demon.co.uk> wrote:
Quote:
amdx wrote:
I caught the piece on 60 Minutes about Bloom Energy, and just know
watched the videos on the Bloom energy website. They now have
many units in the field that are providing power to specific office
buildings although I don't see anyone talk about 100% powered
by the Bloom energy Servers. These are run from natural gas as well as
propane and biofuel.
It has come up before fairly recently. I confess I am sceptical in that
I cannot see where these units dump their waste heat. What he seems to
have done is make mass produced self healing fuel cells that are
tolerant of different fuels. And probably run rather hot inside the box.
I caught the piece on 60 Minutes about Bloom Energy, and just know
watched the videos on the Bloom energy website. They now have
many units in the field that are providing power to specific office
buildings although I don't see anyone talk about 100% powered
by the Bloom energy Servers. These are run from natural gas as well as
propane and biofuel.
It has come up before fairly recently. I confess I am sceptical in that
I cannot see where these units dump their waste heat. What he seems to
have done is make mass produced self healing fuel cells that are
tolerant of different fuels. And probably run rather hot inside the box.
At what temperature does fused quartz become conductive? The 60 minutes
segment showed the basic element as a square of fused quartz with the
electrodes screened on each side. It looked about 10 cm square, but
was put inside an insulated housing that looked at least 1/2 meter
across. Hot stuff, if only 5% of your volume is the working parts.
Ah, found the answer. There's an article in the March 6 (No. 2750)
New Scientist. Seems that there are several competitors to Bloom,
who figure that the Bloom cell has to run at 900 degC, and that
theirs are more manufacturable as they can be built to run at 750
degC (Topsoe in Denmark) and 600 degC (Ceres Power in the UK).
The buzzword seems to be Solid Oxide Fuel Cell.
Mark Zenier mzenier_at_eskimo.com
Googleproofaddress(account:mzenier provider:eskimo domain:com)
Michael A. Terrell
Guest
Guest
Sat Mar 13, 2010 3:19 am
Robert Baer wrote:
Quote:
One could convert from propane to LNG, as gas is cheap as all
get-out; gas storage facilities are either full or close to it and gas
production is increasing..
If natural gas is available in your area. It isn't, in large parts of
Florida. Propane has to be trucked into most areas, as well. Neither
is cheaper than using electricity from the coal or nuclear power plants.
--
Lead free solder is Belgium's version of 'Hold my beer and watch this!'
Don Klipstein
Guest
Guest
Mon Mar 15, 2010 4:31 am
In article <hngese012pt_at_enews2.newsguy.com>, Mark Zenier wrote:
Quote:
In article <raemn.1315$%H1.467_at_newsfe23.iad>,
Martin Brown <|||newspam|||@nezumi.demon.co.uk> wrote:
amdx wrote:
I caught the piece on 60 Minutes about Bloom Energy, and just know
watched the videos on the Bloom energy website. They now have
many units in the field that are providing power to specific office
buildings although I don't see anyone talk about 100% powered
by the Bloom energy Servers. These are run from natural gas as well as
propane and biofuel.
It has come up before fairly recently. I confess I am sceptical in that
I cannot see where these units dump their waste heat. What he seems to
have done is make mass produced self healing fuel cells that are
tolerant of different fuels. And probably run rather hot inside the box.
At what temperature does fused quartz become conductive? The 60 minutes
segment showed the basic element as a square of fused quartz with the
electrodes screened on each side. It looked about 10 cm square, but
was put inside an insulated housing that looked at least 1/2 meter
across. Hot stuff, if only 5% of your volume is the working parts.
Ah, found the answer. There's an article in the March 6 (No. 2750)
New Scientist. Seems that there are several competitors to Bloom,
who figure that the Bloom cell has to run at 900 degC, and that
theirs are more manufacturable as they can be built to run at 750
degC (Topsoe in Denmark) and 600 degC (Ceres Power in the UK).
The buzzword seems to be Solid Oxide Fuel Cell.
Martin Brown <|||newspam|||@nezumi.demon.co.uk> wrote:
amdx wrote:
I caught the piece on 60 Minutes about Bloom Energy, and just know
watched the videos on the Bloom energy website. They now have
many units in the field that are providing power to specific office
buildings although I don't see anyone talk about 100% powered
by the Bloom energy Servers. These are run from natural gas as well as
propane and biofuel.
It has come up before fairly recently. I confess I am sceptical in that
I cannot see where these units dump their waste heat. What he seems to
have done is make mass produced self healing fuel cells that are
tolerant of different fuels. And probably run rather hot inside the box.
At what temperature does fused quartz become conductive? The 60 minutes
segment showed the basic element as a square of fused quartz with the
electrodes screened on each side. It looked about 10 cm square, but
was put inside an insulated housing that looked at least 1/2 meter
across. Hot stuff, if only 5% of your volume is the working parts.
Ah, found the answer. There's an article in the March 6 (No. 2750)
New Scientist. Seems that there are several competitors to Bloom,
who figure that the Bloom cell has to run at 900 degC, and that
theirs are more manufacturable as they can be built to run at 750
degC (Topsoe in Denmark) and 600 degC (Ceres Power in the UK).
The buzzword seems to be Solid Oxide Fuel Cell.
Fused quartz is sufficiently nonconductive to make HID lamp arc tubes
with, and metal halide lamp arc tubes often hit 750-800 C, and it appears
to me that 900 C is a little common for metal halide lamp arc tubes.
- Don Klipstein (don_at_misty.com)
Martin Brown
Guest
Guest
Mon Mar 15, 2010 10:28 am
Mark Zenier wrote:
Quote:
In article <raemn.1315$%H1.467_at_newsfe23.iad>,
Martin Brown <|||newspam|||@nezumi.demon.co.uk> wrote:
amdx wrote:
I caught the piece on 60 Minutes about Bloom Energy, and just know
watched the videos on the Bloom energy website. They now have
many units in the field that are providing power to specific office
buildings although I don't see anyone talk about 100% powered
by the Bloom energy Servers. These are run from natural gas as well as
propane and biofuel.
It has come up before fairly recently. I confess I am sceptical in that
I cannot see where these units dump their waste heat. What he seems to
have done is make mass produced self healing fuel cells that are
tolerant of different fuels. And probably run rather hot inside the box.
At what temperature does fused quartz become conductive? The 60 minutes
segment showed the basic element as a square of fused quartz with the
electrodes screened on each side. It looked about 10 cm square, but
was put inside an insulated housing that looked at least 1/2 meter
across. Hot stuff, if only 5% of your volume is the working parts.
Ah, found the answer. There's an article in the March 6 (No. 2750)
New Scientist. Seems that there are several competitors to Bloom,
who figure that the Bloom cell has to run at 900 degC, and that
theirs are more manufacturable as they can be built to run at 750
degC (Topsoe in Denmark) and 600 degC (Ceres Power in the UK).
The buzzword seems to be Solid Oxide Fuel Cell.
Martin Brown <|||newspam|||@nezumi.demon.co.uk> wrote:
amdx wrote:
I caught the piece on 60 Minutes about Bloom Energy, and just know
watched the videos on the Bloom energy website. They now have
many units in the field that are providing power to specific office
buildings although I don't see anyone talk about 100% powered
by the Bloom energy Servers. These are run from natural gas as well as
propane and biofuel.
It has come up before fairly recently. I confess I am sceptical in that
I cannot see where these units dump their waste heat. What he seems to
have done is make mass produced self healing fuel cells that are
tolerant of different fuels. And probably run rather hot inside the box.
At what temperature does fused quartz become conductive? The 60 minutes
segment showed the basic element as a square of fused quartz with the
electrodes screened on each side. It looked about 10 cm square, but
was put inside an insulated housing that looked at least 1/2 meter
across. Hot stuff, if only 5% of your volume is the working parts.
Ah, found the answer. There's an article in the March 6 (No. 2750)
New Scientist. Seems that there are several competitors to Bloom,
who figure that the Bloom cell has to run at 900 degC, and that
theirs are more manufacturable as they can be built to run at 750
degC (Topsoe in Denmark) and 600 degC (Ceres Power in the UK).
The buzzword seems to be Solid Oxide Fuel Cell.
Indeed. But can you find any decent technical references to the internal
technology and operating conditions that are not entirely PR fluff?
Ceres has a bit online and it appears to be similar to a CHP unit that
powers the Japanese Prime Ministers residence (ISTR of US manufacture). eg.
http://www.renewableenergyfocus.com/view/2823/ceres-powers-solid-oxide-fuel-cell-alpha-chp-unit-passes-british-gas-product-testing/
(except that it will burn mains gas rather than super pure hydrogen)
Regards,
Martin Brown
Mark Zenier
Guest
Guest
Mon Mar 15, 2010 9:16 pm
In article <Fcmnn.92814$Ye4.63370_at_newsfe11.iad>,
Martin Brown <|||newspam|||@nezumi.demon.co.uk> wrote:
Quote:
Mark Zenier wrote:
....
The buzzword seems to be Solid Oxide Fuel Cell.
Indeed. But can you find any decent technical references to the internal
technology and operating conditions that are not entirely PR fluff?
....
The buzzword seems to be Solid Oxide Fuel Cell.
Indeed. But can you find any decent technical references to the internal
technology and operating conditions that are not entirely PR fluff?
Sure looks like they're in their "pumping up the stock for the IPO"
phase. Maybe the patent databases would yield something, but it's
probably a bit early for that.
In article <slrnhpr6g8.3si.don_at_manx.misty.com>,
Don Klipstein <don_at_manx.misty.com> wrote:
Quote:
Fused quartz is sufficiently nonconductive to make HID lamp arc tubes
with, and metal halide lamp arc tubes often hit 750-800 C, and it appears
to me that 900 C is a little common for metal halide lamp arc tubes.
Well, I assume it's fused quartz. The 60 Minutes program just called
it "Beach Sand".
The trick must be in the doping. The New Scientist article mentioned that
that is how Ceres got the operating temperature of their cells down.
Mark Zenier mzenier_at_eskimo.com
Googleproofaddress(account:mzenier provider:eskimo domain:com)
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