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Trevor Wilson
Guest

Sun Jun 19, 2016 6:25 am   



So I ordered a handful of 2SA733 transistors (and 2SC945s) the other
day. I stuck them in the amp I was servicing and dutifully wound it up
on the Variac™. Big DC problem. After much hair-pulling and gnashing of
teeth (about an hour's worth), I discovered that I had been supplied these:

https://www.fairchildsemi.com/datasheets/KS/KSA733.pdf

Well, they weren't Fairchild, but they did have the same pinout (and the
same number - A733), which is completely different to these:

http://pdf1.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-pdf/view/82355/NEC/2SA733.html

Now, I would not have a problem IF WES had labelled the bag as KSA733,
but it wasn't.

Bastards! Cost me an extra hour of time and frustration. I've learned my
lesson. Every device goes on the Peak transistor tester first.

--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

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Computer Nerd Kev
Guest

Sun Jun 19, 2016 6:25 am   



Trevor Wilson <trevor_at_spamblockrageaudio.com.au> wrote:
Quote:
So I ordered a handful of 2SA733 transistors (and 2SC945s) the other
day. I stuck them in the amp I was servicing and dutifully wound it up
on the Variac?. Big DC problem. After much hair-pulling and gnashing of
teeth (about an hour's worth), I discovered that I had been supplied these:

https://www.fairchildsemi.com/datasheets/KS/KSA733.pdf

Well, they weren't Fairchild, but they did have the same pinout (and the
same number - A733), which is completely different to these:

http://pdf1.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-pdf/view/82355/NEC/2SA733.html

Now, I would not have a problem IF WES had labelled the bag as KSA733,
but it wasn't.

Bastards! Cost me an extra hour of time and frustration. I've learned my
lesson. Every device goes on the Peak transistor tester first.


Sounds like WES could do with one of those.

Of course whoever decided to label a transistor the same as one that
already existed probably shouldn't be held completely guiltless either.
Though with the huge number of different transistor types out there it's
probably enevitable, and WES should be prepared for that fact.

I remember reading an old magazine project a while ago which noted that
selection of the MOSFET transistor used was made easy by the range of
types being quite small, and hence easy to select from. Now of course,
the list of those is endless as well.

--
__ __
#_ < |\| |< _#

Phil Allison
Guest

Sun Jun 19, 2016 6:25 am   



Trevor Wilson wrote:
Quote:

So I ordered a handful of 2SA733 transistors (and 2SC945s) the other
day. I stuck them in the amp I was servicing and dutifully wound it up
on the Variac™. Big DC problem. After much hair-pulling and gnashing of
teeth (about an hour's worth), I discovered that I had been supplied these:

https://www.fairchildsemi.com/datasheets/KS/KSA733.pdf

Well, they weren't Fairchild, but they did have the same pinout (and the
same number - A733), which is completely different to these:

http://pdf1.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-pdf/view/82355/NEC/2SA733.html

Now, I would not have a problem IF WES had labelled the bag as KSA733,
but it wasn't.


** So it is the same device but with a variation on the pin out.

Seen that a few times, with equivalent PN and 2N prefix numbers.



..... Phil

Trevor Wilson
Guest

Sun Jun 19, 2016 3:53 pm   



On 19/06/2016 1:52 PM, Phil Allison wrote:
Quote:
Trevor Wilson wrote:

So I ordered a handful of 2SA733 transistors (and 2SC945s) the other
day. I stuck them in the amp I was servicing and dutifully wound it up
on the Variac™. Big DC problem. After much hair-pulling and gnashing of
teeth (about an hour's worth), I discovered that I had been supplied these:

https://www.fairchildsemi.com/datasheets/KS/KSA733.pdf

Well, they weren't Fairchild, but they did have the same pinout (and the
same number - A733), which is completely different to these:

http://pdf1.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-pdf/view/82355/NEC/2SA733.html

Now, I would not have a problem IF WES had labelled the bag as KSA733,
but it wasn't.


** So it is the same device but with a variation on the pin out.

Seen that a few times, with equivalent PN and 2N prefix numbers.


**Me too, BUT the bag was labelled with the 2SA733 part number. GRRRR!

Had the bag been labelled correctly (KSA733), I would not have been
caught out.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

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Sylvia Else
Guest

Mon Jun 20, 2016 7:30 am   



On 20/06/2016 1:14 PM, Trevor Wilson wrote:
Quote:
On 20/06/2016 1:04 PM, Sylvia Else wrote:
On 19/06/2016 10:25 AM, Trevor Wilson wrote:
So I ordered a handful of 2SA733 transistors (and 2SC945s) the other
day. I stuck them in the amp I was servicing and dutifully wound it up
on the Variac™. Big DC problem. After much hair-pulling and gnashing of
teeth (about an hour's worth), I discovered that I had been supplied
these:

https://www.fairchildsemi.com/datasheets/KS/KSA733.pdf

Well, they weren't Fairchild, but they did have the same pinout (and the
same number - A733), which is completely different to these:

http://pdf1.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-pdf/view/82355/NEC/2SA733.html

Now, I would not have a problem IF WES had labelled the bag as KSA733,
but it wasn't.

Bastards! Cost me an extra hour of time and frustration. I've learned my
lesson. Every device goes on the Peak transistor tester first.


Presumably they just picked from the container identified by your order.
Either they stocked incorrectly, or were themselves mislead by their
supplier.


**Neither of which is acceptable. For the cost of the part ($0.75), I
lost an hour's labour.



Look on the bright side - at least you don't have 10,000 wrongly
populated boards.

Sylvia.

Colin Horsley
Guest

Mon Jun 20, 2016 7:30 am   



On 20/06/2016 13:14, Trevor Wilson wrote:
Quote:
On 20/06/2016 1:04 PM, Sylvia Else wrote:
On 19/06/2016 10:25 AM, Trevor Wilson wrote:
So I ordered a handful of 2SA733 transistors (and 2SC945s) the other
day. I stuck them in the amp I was servicing and dutifully wound it up
on the Variac™. Big DC problem. After much hair-pulling and gnashing of
teeth (about an hour's worth), I discovered that I had been supplied
these:

https://www.fairchildsemi.com/datasheets/KS/KSA733.pdf

Well, they weren't Fairchild, but they did have the same pinout (and the
same number - A733), which is completely different to these:

http://pdf1.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-pdf/view/82355/NEC/2SA733.html

Now, I would not have a problem IF WES had labelled the bag as KSA733,
but it wasn't.

Bastards! Cost me an extra hour of time and frustration. I've learned my
lesson. Every device goes on the Peak transistor tester first.


Presumably they just picked from the container identified by your order.
Either they stocked incorrectly, or were themselves mislead by their
supplier.


**Neither of which is acceptable. For the cost of the part ($0.75), I
lost an hour's labour.


Did you tell them about their cock-up?


Colin


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Trevor Wilson
Guest

Mon Jun 20, 2016 7:30 am   



On 20/06/2016 1:04 PM, Sylvia Else wrote:
Quote:
On 19/06/2016 10:25 AM, Trevor Wilson wrote:
So I ordered a handful of 2SA733 transistors (and 2SC945s) the other
day. I stuck them in the amp I was servicing and dutifully wound it up
on the Variac™. Big DC problem. After much hair-pulling and gnashing of
teeth (about an hour's worth), I discovered that I had been supplied
these:

https://www.fairchildsemi.com/datasheets/KS/KSA733.pdf

Well, they weren't Fairchild, but they did have the same pinout (and the
same number - A733), which is completely different to these:

http://pdf1.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-pdf/view/82355/NEC/2SA733.html

Now, I would not have a problem IF WES had labelled the bag as KSA733,
but it wasn't.

Bastards! Cost me an extra hour of time and frustration. I've learned my
lesson. Every device goes on the Peak transistor tester first.


Presumably they just picked from the container identified by your order.
Either they stocked incorrectly, or were themselves mislead by their
supplier.


**Neither of which is acceptable. For the cost of the part ($0.75), I
lost an hour's labour.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
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Sylvia Else
Guest

Mon Jun 20, 2016 7:30 am   



On 19/06/2016 10:25 AM, Trevor Wilson wrote:
Quote:
So I ordered a handful of 2SA733 transistors (and 2SC945s) the other
day. I stuck them in the amp I was servicing and dutifully wound it up
on the Variac™. Big DC problem. After much hair-pulling and gnashing of
teeth (about an hour's worth), I discovered that I had been supplied these:

https://www.fairchildsemi.com/datasheets/KS/KSA733.pdf

Well, they weren't Fairchild, but they did have the same pinout (and the
same number - A733), which is completely different to these:

http://pdf1.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-pdf/view/82355/NEC/2SA733.html

Now, I would not have a problem IF WES had labelled the bag as KSA733,
but it wasn't.

Bastards! Cost me an extra hour of time and frustration. I've learned my
lesson. Every device goes on the Peak transistor tester first.


Presumably they just picked from the container identified by your order.
Either they stocked incorrectly, or were themselves mislead by their
supplier.

Sylvia.

Phil Allison
Guest

Mon Jun 20, 2016 2:07 pm   



Trevor Wilson wrote:

Quote:


* I complained about the unannounced change in the quality of some of
their pre-made RCA-RCA cables. The originals were quite well made
cables, using PE insulation. The replacements looked identical, but were
much cheaper cables, using very thin wires and very thin PVC insulation.
As a reasonably large consumer of the cables, I found substantial
numbers failing in various systems.


** I know the RCA cables you mean - the blue OFC ones. The more recent version has about 10 times more C per metre, thin conductors and poor shielding.

But their cheap thin black ones are *ever so much worse* having no screening at all. I tried to use one to connect a reverb tank to its amplifier and it was greeted with loud hum and HF instability.

Blue ones did the same job OK.



Quote:
* I purchased several hundred 470uF/35V caps for a regular repair job. I
started installing the parts, until I pulled one from the bag and noted
some leakage. I examined the other caps and found that around 20% of the
caps were leaking. I had to recall two of the amps I had already sent
out into the field for re-working. WES refunded my money, but I had to
fund the labour and loss of confidence costs.


** I have bought lots of electros from WES, mostly single ended 105C ones and never had any issues. Same goes for the larger can types and NPs.

Their large value mains caps ( SML250 and SMF250) are excellent for speaker x-overs at around 30c per uF.

I have good stocks of TO3s, all *genuine* Motorola BJTs and Hitachi lateral mosfets - not bought from WES.



..... Phil

Trevor Wilson
Guest

Mon Jun 20, 2016 3:43 pm   



On 20/06/2016 1:27 PM, Colin Horsley wrote:
Quote:
On 20/06/2016 13:14, Trevor Wilson wrote:
On 20/06/2016 1:04 PM, Sylvia Else wrote:
On 19/06/2016 10:25 AM, Trevor Wilson wrote:
So I ordered a handful of 2SA733 transistors (and 2SC945s) the other
day. I stuck them in the amp I was servicing and dutifully wound it up
on the Variac™. Big DC problem. After much hair-pulling and gnashing of
teeth (about an hour's worth), I discovered that I had been supplied
these:

https://www.fairchildsemi.com/datasheets/KS/KSA733.pdf

Well, they weren't Fairchild, but they did have the same pinout (and
the
same number - A733), which is completely different to these:

http://pdf1.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-pdf/view/82355/NEC/2SA733.html

Now, I would not have a problem IF WES had labelled the bag as KSA733,
but it wasn't.

Bastards! Cost me an extra hour of time and frustration. I've
learned my
lesson. Every device goes on the Peak transistor tester first.


Presumably they just picked from the container identified by your order.
Either they stocked incorrectly, or were themselves mislead by their
supplier.


**Neither of which is acceptable. For the cost of the part ($0.75), I
lost an hour's labour.


Did you tell them about their cock-up?


**Not yet, but I will. Not that it will do much good. In the past:

* I complained about the unannounced change in the quality of some of
their pre-made RCA-RCA cables. The originals were quite well made
cables, using PE insulation. The replacements looked identical, but were
much cheaper cables, using very thin wires and very thin PVC insulation.
As a reasonably large consumer of the cables, I found substantial
numbers failing in various systems. I then had to re-do those systems at
my cost. Although WES refunded the cost of the cables, I had to fund my
labour costs.

* I purchased several hundred 470uF/35V caps for a regular repair job. I
started installing the parts, until I pulled one from the bag and noted
some leakage. I examined the other caps and found that around 20% of the
caps were leaking. I had to recall two of the amps I had already sent
out into the field for re-working. WES refunded my money, but I had to
fund the labour and loss of confidence costs.

* A mate used to service TV sets. He replaced a MOSFET in an SMPS
several times, before I suggested he buy from Element14 or RS, as they
are likely to provide a higher quality part. Sure enough, the Element14
part sorted the problem out. Apparently, WES had been supplying sub-spec
(counterfeit?) parts. Each one was only $3.00. WES refunded the cost of
the parts, but he had to fund the 6 hours' labour.

I NEVER buy TO3 devices or electrolytic caps from WES any longer. It's
Element14 or RS all the way. Costs are a little higher, but the
annoyances are non-existent.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

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keithr0
Guest

Mon Jun 20, 2016 3:58 pm   



On 20/06/2016 1:14 PM, Trevor Wilson wrote:
Quote:
On 20/06/2016 1:04 PM, Sylvia Else wrote:
On 19/06/2016 10:25 AM, Trevor Wilson wrote:
So I ordered a handful of 2SA733 transistors (and 2SC945s) the other
day. I stuck them in the amp I was servicing and dutifully wound it up
on the Variac™. Big DC problem. After much hair-pulling and gnashing of
teeth (about an hour's worth), I discovered that I had been supplied
these:

https://www.fairchildsemi.com/datasheets/KS/KSA733.pdf

Well, they weren't Fairchild, but they did have the same pinout (and the
same number - A733), which is completely different to these:

http://pdf1.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-pdf/view/82355/NEC/2SA733.html

Now, I would not have a problem IF WES had labelled the bag as KSA733,
but it wasn't.

Bastards! Cost me an extra hour of time and frustration. I've learned my
lesson. Every device goes on the Peak transistor tester first.


Presumably they just picked from the container identified by your order.
Either they stocked incorrectly, or were themselves mislead by their
supplier.


**Neither of which is acceptable. For the cost of the part ($0.75), I
lost an hour's labour.


75c/hour, sounds about right for an audio tech Smile


Trevor Wilson
Guest

Tue Jun 21, 2016 3:59 am   



On 20/06/2016 10:07 PM, Phil Allison wrote:
Quote:
Trevor Wilson wrote:



* I complained about the unannounced change in the quality of some
of their pre-made RCA-RCA cables. The originals were quite well
made cables, using PE insulation. The replacements looked
identical, but were much cheaper cables, using very thin wires and
very thin PVC insulation. As a reasonably large consumer of the
cables, I found substantial numbers failing in various systems.


** I know the RCA cables you mean - the blue OFC ones. The more
recent version has about 10 times more C per metre, thin conductors
and poor shielding.


**Give the man a kewpie doll.

Quote:

But their cheap thin black ones are *ever so much worse* having no
screening at all. I tried to use one to connect a reverb tank to its
amplifier and it was greeted with loud hum and HF instability.

Blue ones did the same job OK.


**They now sell a superb range of cables under the brand 'Accento White
Pearl'. Foil and braid shielding, hand soldered RCA connectors and PE
insulation. Very robust and (so far) completely fault free.

Quote:



* I purchased several hundred 470uF/35V caps for a regular repair
job. I started installing the parts, until I pulled one from the
bag and noted some leakage. I examined the other caps and found
that around 20% of the caps were leaking. I had to recall two of
the amps I had already sent out into the field for re-working. WES
refunded my money, but I had to fund the labour and loss of
confidence costs.


** I have bought lots of electros from WES, mostly single ended 105C
ones and never had any issues. Same goes for the larger can types and
NPs.


**Well, for me, it is once bitten. No more electros from WES for me. I
source from Element14 and RS only now. Their Panasonic range is well
priced and utterly reliable.

Quote:

Their large value mains caps ( SML250 and SMF250) are excellent for
speaker x-overs at around 30c per uF.


**I have no issue with WES film caps.

Quote:

I have good stocks of TO3s, all *genuine* Motorola BJTs and Hitachi
lateral mosfets - not bought from WES.


**Yes, you mentioned that to me some time ago.

--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

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Trevor Wilson
Guest

Tue Jun 21, 2016 4:02 am   



On 20/06/2016 7:58 PM, keithr0 wrote:
Quote:
On 20/06/2016 1:14 PM, Trevor Wilson wrote:
On 20/06/2016 1:04 PM, Sylvia Else wrote:
On 19/06/2016 10:25 AM, Trevor Wilson wrote:
So I ordered a handful of 2SA733 transistors (and 2SC945s) the other
day. I stuck them in the amp I was servicing and dutifully wound it up
on the Variac™. Big DC problem. After much hair-pulling and gnashing of
teeth (about an hour's worth), I discovered that I had been supplied
these:

https://www.fairchildsemi.com/datasheets/KS/KSA733.pdf

Well, they weren't Fairchild, but they did have the same pinout (and
the
same number - A733), which is completely different to these:

http://pdf1.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-pdf/view/82355/NEC/2SA733.html

Now, I would not have a problem IF WES had labelled the bag as KSA733,
but it wasn't.

Bastards! Cost me an extra hour of time and frustration. I've
learned my
lesson. Every device goes on the Peak transistor tester first.


Presumably they just picked from the container identified by your order.
Either they stocked incorrectly, or were themselves mislead by their
supplier.


**Neither of which is acceptable. For the cost of the part ($0.75), I
lost an hour's labour.


75c/hour, sounds about right for an audio tech Smile


**LOL. Pretty damned close. Not many of us left. More money in plumbing,
electrician work, cleaning floors, or anything else you'd care to
mention. The only reason I can survive is due to the fact I work from
home and made some smart real estate and investment decisions many years
ago.

--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

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