EDAboard.com | EDAboard.de | EDAboard.co.uk | WTWH Media

B&K 4007DDS sweep generator

Ask a question - edaboard.com

elektroda.net NewsGroups Forum Index - Electronics Equipment - B&K 4007DDS sweep generator

Goto page Previous  1, 2

Michael A. Terrell
Guest

Sun Sep 20, 2009 12:46 am   



Phil Hobbs wrote:
Quote:

Michael A. Terrell wrote:

If you want lab grade, you have to pay for it. Look for a good used
HP 3325B.

They aren't very expensive just now.


I miss having one on my bench, but everything is out of my budget
until some modifications are completed to make my home more handicapped
accessible. I may never get another chance to do the work. I am
installing a used aluminum ramp and installing an outside door to my
bedroom. Then I have to borrow a cement mixer to widen the 18" wide
sidewalks so I can use a walker or cane without going off the edges. The
used electric power chair I'm rebuilding is too wide for the existing
walkway, as well.

I'll just have to use my TS-382F for now. My HP 331 Distortion
Analyzer was damaged when the shop roof leaked. It ruined the meter
movement and washed all the numbers off the scales. :(


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense!

oparr@hotmail.com
Guest

Sun Sep 20, 2009 2:11 am   



Quote:
If you want lab grade, you have to pay for it. Look for a good used
HP 3325B.

Well, a run-of-the-mill non-digital function generator (or sweep
function generator) can address all the mentioned issues including a
1:100 frequency range provided the VCG (aka VCF, VCO) input is used.
The somewhat out of the ordinary sweep features can be incorporated
easily using a MCU based ramp generator. We're talking less than $5.00
worth of components and the programming is a piece of cake. However,
if per chance there's a suitable ramp generator out there for less
than $100.00 then I'll bite out of laziness.

Neither want nor need lab grade stuff based on what I'm doing.
Nevertheless, I do get your point which seems to be that lab grade
equipment would more likely have those features, options and
refinements.

On Sep 19, 2:53 pm, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terr...@earthlink.net>
wrote:
>

Robert Baer
Guest

Sun Sep 20, 2009 6:18 am   



oparr_at_hotmail.com wrote:
Quote:
Called B&K and asked a few questions about the 4007DDS. The fellow
actually had one working nearby apparently and we went through its
paces over the phone. I recall him mumbling something about the
resolution of the frequency control but paid it no mind and went ahead
and ordered one....Big mistake!!!

All the range buttons do is move the decimal point up and down which
would be okay provided frequency control had a coarse option. Instead,
frequency control seems to be via some multiturn rotary optical device
which is good from a "no pot wear perspective" but it takes like 10
revs of the control knob just to change the frequency from say 1KHz to
5KHz. Now I understand what the fellow was saying about
resolution....It's too darn fine!!!

But it doesn't end there...You lose the last frequency and decimal
setting when you turn off the device because it's all digital without
any memory. Also, the waveform selection switches are momentary so you
cannot "lock" the waveform. Long story short....You are returned to a
sinusoidal 1KHz frequency every time you switch on the device. The
workaround for that seems to be to leave it on....What a POS!!!

Finally, I'm yet to figure out how to have the frequency displayed
during sweeps. Maybe this is normal for sweep generators. Whatever,
I'm returning it even if it entails a restocking fee.

What I really want now is a programmable ramp generator and connect it
to the VCG input of my function generator. That way I can sweep up and
hold at the high end or sweep up then down continuously. Sweeping up
then starting over from the low end was never really a preference
anyway. Tried using low frequency 4007DDS triangle output as a RG but
have to keep adjusting the offset every time output level is
adjusted....A PITA.
"Restocking fee" is really their profit; so they get to make that

profit when they re-sell it...
..tell them you did NOT agree to a re-stocking fee and that you
demand a full refund under the UCC which says you can do that if the
item is not fit for the purpose for which it was made.

Fred Abse
Guest

Sun Sep 20, 2009 3:25 pm   



On Sat, 19 Sep 2009 14:53:48 -0400, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Quote:
If you want lab grade, you have to pay for it. Look for a good used
HP 3325B.

Only snag is you don't get the full frequency range on all waveforms.

The phase noise is unbelievably low for a synth FG. I had a a hard time
telling the difference between my 3325b and my 8640B at 20MHz.It is
characterized as a "Synthesizer / Function Generator" rather than a
"Synthesized Function Generator", apparently a significant distinction.

I've got a Rohde & Schwartz AFGU that does all waveforms to max frequency.
However the phase noise is cruel compared to the HP.

--
"Electricity is of two kinds, positive and negative. The difference
is, I presume, that one comes a little more expensive, but is more
durable; the other is a cheaper thing, but the moths get into it."
(Stephen Leacock)

Michael A. Terrell
Guest

Mon Sep 21, 2009 5:58 pm   



"oparr_at_hotmail.com" wrote:
Quote:

"Restocking fee" is really their profit; so they get to make that
profit when they re-sell it...

It's 20% in this case, almost $80.00, if I purchased the product in
error. All hell is going to break loose if they charge it, since this
note will be attached with the return;

=================================================================
RE: B&K 4007DDS sweep function generator

Before purchasing this product, I even spoke to a B&K technician
regarding its features and operation because the manual is far from
being comprehensive regarding this. However, with all that it was
still impossible to tell that the device is designed in such a way
that the basic functionality one expects in any function generator is
lost.

This product is being returned due to its somewhat dysfunctional
attributes, compared to other similar products, which B&K has
confirmed is by design. Listed below are these attributes (or lack
thereof);

1. There is no coarse frequency control. It takes more than ten
revolutions of the frequency control to go from say a frequency of
1KHz to 5KHz. The range buttons cannot help in such cases. Just about
every function generator encountered, including the one I currently
have, allows for both coarse and fine control.


WAAAAAAAAA!!!


Quote:
2. The device is digital but has no memory. You therefore lose all
your relevant settings when the device is switched off. It is
returned to a 1KHz sinusoidal waveform every time the device is
powered. There is no mention of this in the manual and is completely
unacceptable.


Why? Even if it did store the previous settings, most likely they
would be wrong for the task at hand.


Quote:
3. The frequency is not displayed while in sweep mode. Instead, all
you see while the device is sweeping is the sweep options. An ill-
conceived design.


So a fast changing digital frequency display is going to help you?
How?



--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense!

Jamie
Guest

Mon Sep 21, 2009 6:37 pm   



Michael A. Terrell wrote:
Quote:
"oparr_at_hotmail.com" wrote:

"Restocking fee" is really their profit; so they get to make that
profit when they re-sell it...

It's 20% in this case, almost $80.00, if I purchased the product in
error. All hell is going to break loose if they charge it, since this
note will be attached with the return;

=================================================================
RE: B&K 4007DDS sweep function generator

Before purchasing this product, I even spoke to a B&K technician
regarding its features and operation because the manual is far from
being comprehensive regarding this. However, with all that it was
still impossible to tell that the device is designed in such a way
that the basic functionality one expects in any function generator is
lost.

This product is being returned due to its somewhat dysfunctional
attributes, compared to other similar products, which B&K has
confirmed is by design. Listed below are these attributes (or lack
thereof);

1. There is no coarse frequency control. It takes more than ten
revolutions of the frequency control to go from say a frequency of
1KHz to 5KHz. The range buttons cannot help in such cases. Just about
every function generator encountered, including the one I currently
have, allows for both coarse and fine control.



WAAAAAAAAA!!!



2. The device is digital but has no memory. You therefore lose all
your relevant settings when the device is switched off. It is
returned to a 1KHz sinusoidal waveform every time the device is
powered. There is no mention of this in the manual and is completely
unacceptable.



Why? Even if it did store the previous settings, most likely they
would be wrong for the task at hand.



3. The frequency is not displayed while in sweep mode. Instead, all
you see while the device is sweeping is the sweep options. An ill-
conceived design.



So a fast changing digital frequency display is going to help you?
How?



What an ass!.


Have you ever considered the fact that maybe it needs to be in a fixed
operation where settings are required to be maintain between power cycles?

Also, being able to monitor the frequency, at most likely a slow ramp
rate, is a useful tool if you are performing some test on a device. One
may want to know where a change is taking place visually.

It just goes to show your ignorance and how you think the world should
revolve around what you think and believe in..

Lord, help us! between our current leader and idiots like this, we're
in a heap of trouble..

In other words! Who gives a shit what you think ? Most likely "oparr"
won't after that comment.. You seem to lack the common sense of what
value basic functions like "oparr" is looking for, is worth!

It kind of makes me wonder about the authenticity of the drivel you
spew out..

Oh, I'm sure you'll have an asinine comment that makes it sound like
you're regressing back to child hood play ground games.

And if it makes you feel any better, go ahead and post my real name.
Like it makes a shit hole of a difference.

Michael A. Terrell
Guest

Mon Sep 21, 2009 7:25 pm   



Jamie wrote:
Quote:

Michael A. Terrell wrote:
"oparr_at_hotmail.com" wrote:

"Restocking fee" is really their profit; so they get to make that
profit when they re-sell it...

It's 20% in this case, almost $80.00, if I purchased the product in
error. All hell is going to break loose if they charge it, since this
note will be attached with the return;

=================================================================
RE: B&K 4007DDS sweep function generator

Before purchasing this product, I even spoke to a B&K technician
regarding its features and operation because the manual is far from
being comprehensive regarding this. However, with all that it was
still impossible to tell that the device is designed in such a way
that the basic functionality one expects in any function generator is
lost.

This product is being returned due to its somewhat dysfunctional
attributes, compared to other similar products, which B&K has
confirmed is by design. Listed below are these attributes (or lack
thereof);

1. There is no coarse frequency control. It takes more than ten
revolutions of the frequency control to go from say a frequency of
1KHz to 5KHz. The range buttons cannot help in such cases. Just about
every function generator encountered, including the one I currently
have, allows for both coarse and fine control.



WAAAAAAAAA!!!



2. The device is digital but has no memory. You therefore lose all
your relevant settings when the device is switched off. It is
returned to a 1KHz sinusoidal waveform every time the device is
powered. There is no mention of this in the manual and is completely
unacceptable.



Why? Even if it did store the previous settings, most likely they
would be wrong for the task at hand.



3. The frequency is not displayed while in sweep mode. Instead, all
you see while the device is sweeping is the sweep options. An ill-
conceived design.



So a fast changing digital frequency display is going to help you?
How?



What an ass!.

Have you ever considered the fact that maybe it needs to be in a fixed
operation where settings are required to be maintain between power cycles?


then buy a crappy old Wavetek with pots.

Quote:
Also, being able to monitor the frequency, at most likely a slow ramp
rate, is a useful tool if you are performing some test on a device. One
may want to know where a change is taking place visually.


A series of changing digits is fairly useless. If that's what he
really wants, he needs an ultrasonic network analyzer.


Quote:
It just goes to show your ignorance and how you think the world should
revolve around what you think and believe in..


You still refuse to tell us where you work, yet expect people to
believe your crap.


Quote:
Lord, help us! between our current leader and idiots like this, we're
in a heap of trouble..


You can always leave, idiot.


Quote:
In other words! Who gives a shit what you think ? Most likely "oparr"
won't after that comment.. You seem to lack the common sense of what
value basic functions like "oparr" is looking for, is worth!


Yet you offer no suggestions, just your usual trolling and whining.


Quote:
It kind of makes me wonder about the authenticity of the drivel you
spew out..

Oh, I'm sure you'll have an asinine comment that makes it sound like
you're regressing back to child hood play ground games.

And if it makes you feel any better, go ahead and post my real name.
Like it makes a shit hole of a difference.


Nothing about you makes any difference. You hide behind a fake name,
and pretend you know something. Tell the OP exactly what test equipment
he needs to buy, or go away. The HP 3325 has a touch pad to enter
initial settings, and a rotary encoder to make adjustments. B&K was
never lab grade equipment. They made run of the mill test equipment for
TV shops, just like Sencore & Heathkit.


http://cp.literature.agilent.com/litweb/pdf/03325-90014.pdf is the
operators manual, which shows how to store settings. You can also use
the IEEE-488 or RS-232 interface to program it as part of an ATE or SATE
test system.

http://cp.literature.agilent.com/litweb/pdf/03325-90003.pdf is the
service manual and parts list, for those with enough brains to know what
to do with it. I've troubleshot some of these, when the old guy in the
metrology lab ran into problems. The biggest problem is relay failures
on high usage units.


Now, where are your recommendations?


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense!

oparr@hotmail.com
Guest

Mon Sep 21, 2009 7:39 pm   



Quote:
"Restocking fee" is really their profit; so they get to make that
profit when they re-sell it...

It's 20% in this case, almost $80.00, if I purchased the product in
error. All hell is going to break loose if they charge it, since this
note will be attached with the return;

================================================================RE: B&K 4007DDS sweep function generator


Before purchasing this product, I even spoke to a B&K technician
regarding its features and operation because the manual is far from
being comprehensive regarding this. However, with all that it was
still impossible to tell that the device is designed in such a way
that the basic functionality one expects in any function generator is
lost.

This product is being returned due to its somewhat dysfunctional
attributes, compared to other similar products, which B&K has
confirmed is by design. Listed below are these attributes (or lack
thereof);

1. There is no coarse frequency control. It takes more than ten
revolutions of the frequency control to go from say a frequency of
1KHz to 5KHz. The range buttons cannot help in such cases. Just about
every function generator encountered, including the one I currently
have, allows for both coarse and fine control.

2. The device is digital but has no memory. You therefore lose all
your relevant settings when the device is switched off. It is
returned to a 1KHz sinusoidal waveform every time the device is
powered. There is no mention of this in the manual and is completely
unacceptable.

3. The frequency is not displayed while in sweep mode. Instead, all
you see while the device is sweeping is the sweep options. An ill-
conceived design.

=====================================================
On Sep 20, 2:18 am, Robert Baer <robertb...@localnet.com> wrote:
>

Phil Hobbs
Guest

Mon Sep 21, 2009 8:08 pm   



Michael A. Terrell wrote:
Quote:
Jamie wrote:
Michael A. Terrell wrote:
"oparr_at_hotmail.com" wrote:

"Restocking fee" is really their profit; so they get to make that
profit when they re-sell it...
It's 20% in this case, almost $80.00, if I purchased the product in
error. All hell is going to break loose if they charge it, since this
note will be attached with the return;

=================================================================
RE: B&K 4007DDS sweep function generator

Before purchasing this product, I even spoke to a B&K technician
regarding its features and operation because the manual is far from
being comprehensive regarding this. However, with all that it was
still impossible to tell that the device is designed in such a way
that the basic functionality one expects in any function generator is
lost.

This product is being returned due to its somewhat dysfunctional
attributes, compared to other similar products, which B&K has
confirmed is by design. Listed below are these attributes (or lack
thereof);

1. There is no coarse frequency control. It takes more than ten
revolutions of the frequency control to go from say a frequency of
1KHz to 5KHz. The range buttons cannot help in such cases. Just about
every function generator encountered, including the one I currently
have, allows for both coarse and fine control.


WAAAAAAAAA!!!



2. The device is digital but has no memory. You therefore lose all
your relevant settings when the device is switched off. It is
returned to a 1KHz sinusoidal waveform every time the device is
powered. There is no mention of this in the manual and is completely
unacceptable.


Why? Even if it did store the previous settings, most likely they
would be wrong for the task at hand.



3. The frequency is not displayed while in sweep mode. Instead, all
you see while the device is sweeping is the sweep options. An ill-
conceived design.


So a fast changing digital frequency display is going to help you?
How?



What an ass!.

Have you ever considered the fact that maybe it needs to be in a fixed
operation where settings are required to be maintain between power cycles?


then buy a crappy old Wavetek with pots.

Also, being able to monitor the frequency, at most likely a slow ramp
rate, is a useful tool if you are performing some test on a device. One
may want to know where a change is taking place visually.


A series of changing digits is fairly useless. If that's what he
really wants, he needs an ultrasonic network analyzer.


It just goes to show your ignorance and how you think the world should
revolve around what you think and believe in..


You still refuse to tell us where you work, yet expect people to
believe your crap.


Lord, help us! between our current leader and idiots like this, we're
in a heap of trouble..


You can always leave, idiot.


In other words! Who gives a shit what you think ? Most likely "oparr"
won't after that comment.. You seem to lack the common sense of what
value basic functions like "oparr" is looking for, is worth!


Yet you offer no suggestions, just your usual trolling and whining.


It kind of makes me wonder about the authenticity of the drivel you
spew out..

Oh, I'm sure you'll have an asinine comment that makes it sound like
you're regressing back to child hood play ground games.

And if it makes you feel any better, go ahead and post my real name.
Like it makes a shit hole of a difference.


Nothing about you makes any difference. You hide behind a fake name,
and pretend you know something. Tell the OP exactly what test equipment
he needs to buy, or go away. The HP 3325 has a touch pad to enter
initial settings, and a rotary encoder to make adjustments. B&K was
never lab grade equipment. They made run of the mill test equipment for
TV shops, just like Sencore & Heathkit.


http://cp.literature.agilent.com/litweb/pdf/03325-90014.pdf is the
operators manual, which shows how to store settings. You can also use
the IEEE-488 or RS-232 interface to program it as part of an ATE or SATE
test system.

http://cp.literature.agilent.com/litweb/pdf/03325-90003.pdf is the
service manual and parts list, for those with enough brains to know what
to do with it. I've troubleshot some of these, when the old guy in the
metrology lab ran into problems. The biggest problem is relay failures
on high usage units.


Now, where are your recommendations?



At the risk of disturbing this lovely flame war, the 3325s I know don't
have knobs, which is one of their least endearing features. The other
non-endearing one is that the triangle and sawtooth outputs crap out at
10 kHz. Also, iirc some early ones had a nasty glitch at the DAC's
major carry, so I got into the habit of filtering the output. The B
model doesn't do that, and neither do the later A's AFAIK.

Other than that, it's a great instrument--I spent my own money on a nice
used one about 3 months ago. A bit on the mammoth side compared to more
modern stuff--you definitely need a rack.



Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal
ElectroOptical Innovations
55 Orchard Rd
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510
845-480-2058
hobbs at electrooptical dot net
http://electrooptical.net

oparr@hotmail.com
Guest

Mon Sep 21, 2009 10:06 pm   



Quote:
Now, where are your recommendations?

Let's put the "Clash of the Test Equipment Titans" aside for the
moment...Do you or anyone know of a versatile ramp generator suitable
for connecting to the VCG input of a function generator?

On Sep 21, 3:25 pm, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terr...@earthlink.net>
wrote:
>

Nico Coesel
Guest

Mon Sep 21, 2009 10:32 pm   



Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless_at_electrooptical.net> wrote:

Quote:

At the risk of disturbing this lovely flame war, the 3325s I know don't
have knobs, which is one of their least endearing features. The other
non-endearing one is that the triangle and sawtooth outputs crap out at
10 kHz. Also, iirc some early ones had a nasty glitch at the DAC's
major carry, so I got into the habit of filtering the output. The B
model doesn't do that, and neither do the later A's AFAIK.

Other than that, it's a great instrument--I spent my own money on a nice
used one about 3 months ago. A bit on the mammoth side compared to more
modern stuff--you definitely need a rack.

A few years ago I bought an HP3314A function generator. It has tons of
features (and some limitations) but overall I like it very much.

--
Failure does not prove something is impossible, failure simply
indicates you are not using the right tools...
"If it doesn't fit, use a bigger hammer!"
--------------------------------------------------------------

Michael A. Terrell
Guest

Tue Sep 22, 2009 1:00 am   



"oparr_at_hotmail.com" wrote:
Quote:

Now, where are your recommendations?

Let's put the "Clash of the Test Equipment Titans" aside for the
moment...Do you or anyone know of a versatile ramp generator suitable
for connecting to the VCG input of a function generator?

On Sep 21, 3:25 pm, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terr...@earthlink.net
wrote:



An arbitrary waveform generator would let you have any waveform you
want. Create the wave shape you want, and use it as is. No need for two
instruments.

If all you want is a simple, linear DC ramp you can build one with a
counter (or microprocessor) & DAC. We used some Analog Devices Dual 18
bit DAC in a design for a 0 to -44 dB video attenuator. That, plus a
switched 20 db gain stage gave us a 0 to -64 dB range with .1 dB steps.
It has a serial input and operates from a single +5 V rail. The second
DAC was used to trim the DC offset for the entire video system.


http://www.analog.com/en/digital-to-analog-converters/audio-da-converters/ad1868/products/product.html


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense!

Michael A. Terrell
Guest

Tue Sep 22, 2009 1:09 am   



Phil Hobbs wrote:
Quote:

At the risk of disturbing this lovely flame war, the 3325s I know don't
have knobs, which is one of their least endearing features. The other
non-endearing one is that the triangle and sawtooth outputs crap out at
10 kHz. Also, iirc some early ones had a nasty glitch at the DAC's
major carry, so I got into the habit of filtering the output. The B
model doesn't do that, and neither do the later A's AFAIK.

Other than that, it's a great instrument--I spent my own money on a nice
used one about 3 months ago. A bit on the mammoth side compared to more
modern stuff--you definitely need a rack.


Yes, its big, but considering that it has a lot of TTL logic and
relays to set the output level in millivolts or dB, it was fairly
compact for when it was designed. it was intended for ATE applications,
where a rack or two wasn't out of the question. When used with a HP
8660 and other HP equipment of that era, it was rather compact. :)

The last version of the maual was dated 1990, after all.

We used heavy duty shop carts for the larger test equipment for
several reasons, including the ability to unplug a few cables and roll
the whole thing into the metrology lab, when needed. If a piece of
equipment failed, you just asked a couple techs to lift the top of the
stack and switched out the failed equipment. :)


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense!

JW
Guest

Tue Sep 22, 2009 9:20 am   



On Mon, 21 Sep 2009 16:08:36 -0400 Phil Hobbs
<pcdhSpamMeSenseless_at_electrooptical.net> wrote in Message id:
<5o2dnX16sYXZQCrXnZ2dnUVZ_g2dnZ2d_at_supernews.com>:

[3325]

Quote:
The other
non-endearing one is that the triangle and sawtooth outputs crap out at
10 kHz.

Good reason to get an HP 8116a instead. They can be had for about $350
working, ($150 non-working) and it's a lot smaller to boot.

oparr@hotmail.com
Guest

Tue Oct 06, 2009 7:54 pm   



Quote:
It's 20% in this case, almost $80.00, if I purchased the product in
error. All hell is going to break loose if they charge it

For what it's worth, I got a complete refund for the sweep generator.
They didn't deduct their shipping charge.

On Sep 21, 1:39 pm, "op...@hotmail.com" <op...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Quote:
It's 20% in this case, almost $80.00, if I purchased the product in
error. All hell is going to break loose if they charge it, since this
note will be attached with the return;

================================================================> RE: B&K 4007DDS sweep function generator

Before purchasing this product, I even spoke to a B&K technician
regarding its features and operation because the manual is far from
being comprehensive regarding this. However, with all that it was
still impossible to tell that the device is designed in such a way
that the basic functionality one expects in any function generator is
lost.

This product is being returned due to its somewhat dysfunctional
attributes, compared to other similar products, which B&K has
confirmed is by design. Listed below are these attributes (or lack
thereof);

1. There is no coarse frequency control. It takes more than ten
revolutions of the frequency control to go from say a frequency of
1KHz to 5KHz. The range buttons cannot help in such cases. Just about
every function generator encountered, including the one I currently
have, allows for both coarse and fine control.

2. The device is digital but has no memory. You therefore lose all
your relevant settings when the device is switched off.  It is
returned to a 1KHz sinusoidal waveform every time the device is
powered. There is no mention of this in the manual and is completely
unacceptable.

3. The frequency is not displayed while in sweep mode. Instead, all
you see while the device is sweeping is the sweep options. An ill-
conceived design.

=====================================================


Goto page Previous  1, 2

elektroda.net NewsGroups Forum Index - Electronics Equipment - B&K 4007DDS sweep generator

Ask a question - edaboard.com

Arabic version Bulgarian version Catalan version Czech version Danish version German version Greek version English version Spanish version Finnish version French version Hindi version Croatian version Indonesian version Italian version Hebrew version Japanese version Korean version Lithuanian version Latvian version Dutch version Norwegian version Polish version Portuguese version Romanian version Russian version Slovak version Slovenian version Serbian version Swedish version Tagalog version Ukrainian version Vietnamese version Chinese version Turkish version
EDAboard.com map