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Apple have stolen my ipad. Yes, this story now has an ending

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AV3
Guest

Tue May 03, 2016 11:59 pm   



On 5/2/16, 22:27, Lewis wrote:
Quote:
In message<ng8vjg$c89$1_at_news.albasani.net
AV3<arvimide_at_earthlink.net> wrote:
I checked my e-mail files for purchases over the last ten years. Most
Apple products were bought directly from Apple at one of the two Apple
stores I live near. They had transaction numbers but no serial numbers.

Here's one from 2008:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/mbl7ihvnn8i6gnh/Screenshot%202016-05-02%2020.22.44.png?dl=0

Ever serialized purchase has the serial number on the receipt.

(That is to say, everyone Apple product bought in an Apple Store. The
online receipts don't have the serial number, but since they were
purchased with my Apple ID, there's no need, those devices are in my
profile automatically).



I don't retain paper receipts after the credit card is paid off. I
presume the digital receipt contains all information necessary to prove
the transaction took place, but I have never had need of either.


--
++====+=====+=====+=====+=====+====+====+=====+=====+=====+=====+====++
||Arnold VICTOR, New York City, i. e., <arvimideQ_at_Wearthlink.net> ||
||Arnoldo VIKTORO, Nov-jorkurbo, t. e., <arvimideQ_at_Wearthlink.net> ||
||Remove capital letters from e-mail address for correct address/ ||
|| Forigu majusklajn literojn el e-poŝta adreso por ĝusta adreso ||
++====+=====+=====+=====+=====+====+====+=====+=====+=====+=====+====++

Frank Slootweg
Guest

Wed May 04, 2016 12:59 am   



David Empson <dempson_at_actrix.gen.nz> wrote:
[...]
Quote:
In your case, the purchase was NOT from an authorised Apple reseller, so
Apple has no way to track the sale of that iPad: they would have a
record of where it was originally sold, and possibly who it was sold to,
but that doesn't match up with your purchase from Becextech, because
Apple has no business dealings with that company and no record of
selling your iPad to them. It is likely that the iPad was originally
sold by Apple in a different country, then resold to you by Becextech in
Australia.

As far as Apple was concerned, your iPad was either a second hand
purchase, or potentially stolen then on-sold to you by a grey market
reseller.


No offense, but I find that a strange, premature and even false
conclusion.

As Don has mentioned several times, Becextech is *not* some small,
shady, company. They're all in the open, with many (thousands?)
products.

So Don's iPad was clearly *not* second hand (because he had a receipt
from Becextech) and *not* "potentially stolen".

Anyway, it's nice to see that your *actual* experience and information
shows that the "Official receipts always have a serial number!" claim
is the bollocks that we always said it was.

[...]

Frank Slootweg
Guest

Wed May 04, 2016 1:13 am   



Don McKenzie <5V_at_2.5a> wrote:
Quote:
At this point, can I ask a serious question, and get a sensible answer?

Is there anyone that has an iPad serial on a receipt, and can prove it
by posting a masked version (for your own security), similar to what I
have done? See: http://www.dontronics.com/apple.htm


Not for an iPad, but if I remember and can be bothered and the victim
can be bothered, I'll check one for a recent iMac.

Quote:
There is so much emphasis on there being a serial number on the receipt.
It must be false, because there is no serial number on it!!!
I had to really push hard to get a serial number on my iPad receipt
after 3.5 years, and just wondering what the normal procedure is.


The normal procedure is, it depends! IME (non Apple), most receipts do
not have a serial number, but some have. I think that there isn't any
kind of logic in it, other than that a certain supplier at a certain
time will probably have a somewhat consistent yes/no policy.

Quote:
I have sold electronic items since 1964, and never put a serial number
on a receipt for hardware. I have in recent years for software, as it
often ties in with a web delivered product, but never for hardware.


Shame on you for not doing it the iLoon way! You've been making
'thieves' of all your customers!

Back in the real world: Why would companies have to go through all
these difficult product safety recall etc. procedures, when all this
information is supposedly readily available!?

Rod Speed
Guest

Wed May 04, 2016 1:31 am   



nospam <nospam_at_nospam.invalid> wrote
Quote:
Don McKenzie <5V_at_2.5A> wrote

Thank you to those people that got back to me regarding iPad
receipts, and for displaying them. Yes it looks more common
for Apple themselves to put a serial number on a receipt, but
the resellers and non-authorized dealers don't seem to go
to this trouble.

yes they do.


No they don't, mine has no serial number on it.

Rod Speed
Guest

Wed May 04, 2016 1:36 am   



"Frank Slootweg" <this_at_ddress.is.invalid> wrote in message
news:dosbieFcj42U1_at_mid.individual.net...
Quote:
Don McKenzie <5V_at_2.5a> wrote:
At this point, can I ask a serious question, and get a sensible answer?

Is there anyone that has an iPad serial on a receipt, and can prove it
by posting a masked version (for your own security), similar to what I
have done? See: http://www.dontronics.com/apple.htm

Not for an iPad, but if I remember and can be bothered and the victim
can be bothered, I'll check one for a recent iMac.

There is so much emphasis on there being a serial number on the receipt.
It must be false, because there is no serial number on it!!!
I had to really push hard to get a serial number on my iPad receipt
after 3.5 years, and just wondering what the normal procedure is.

The normal procedure is, it depends! IME (non Apple), most receipts do
not have a serial number, but some have. I think that there isn't any
kind of logic in it, other than that a certain supplier at a certain
time will probably have a somewhat consistent yes/no policy.

I have sold electronic items since 1964, and never put a serial number
on a receipt for hardware. I have in recent years for software, as it
often ties in with a web delivered product, but never for hardware.

Shame on you for not doing it the iLoon way! You've been making
'thieves' of all your customers!

Back in the real world: Why would companies have to go through all
these difficult product safety recall etc. procedures, when all this
information is supposedly readily available!?


Because there is no requirement for stuff bought in person from
a retail outlet to have any contact details for the owner of the
device which has been purchased that way. And even when the
seller has the buyer's contact details, there is no guarantee that
the buyer will still contactable at that address or number anymore.

Frank Slootweg
Guest

Wed May 04, 2016 1:47 am   



Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa_at_gmail.com> wrote:
Quote:
"Frank Slootweg" <this_at_ddress.is.invalid> wrote in message
news:dosbieFcj42U1_at_mid.individual.net...
Don McKenzie <5V_at_2.5a> wrote:
At this point, can I ask a serious question, and get a sensible answer?

Is there anyone that has an iPad serial on a receipt, and can prove it
by posting a masked version (for your own security), similar to what I
have done? See: http://www.dontronics.com/apple.htm

Not for an iPad, but if I remember and can be bothered and the victim
can be bothered, I'll check one for a recent iMac.

There is so much emphasis on there being a serial number on the receipt.
It must be false, because there is no serial number on it!!!
I had to really push hard to get a serial number on my iPad receipt
after 3.5 years, and just wondering what the normal procedure is.

The normal procedure is, it depends! IME (non Apple), most receipts do
not have a serial number, but some have. I think that there isn't any
kind of logic in it, other than that a certain supplier at a certain
time will probably have a somewhat consistent yes/no policy.

I have sold electronic items since 1964, and never put a serial number
on a receipt for hardware. I have in recent years for software, as it
often ties in with a web delivered product, but never for hardware.

Shame on you for not doing it the iLoon way! You've been making
'thieves' of all your customers!

Back in the real world: Why would companies have to go through all
these difficult product safety recall etc. procedures, when all this
information is supposedly readily available!?

Because there is no requirement for stuff bought in person from
a retail outlet to have any contact details for the owner of the
device which has been purchased that way. And even when the
seller has the buyer's contact details, there is no guarantee that
the buyer will still contactable at that address or number anymore.


My question was of course rethorical (hysterical? Smile) and
tongue-in-cheek [1].

We mere mortals live in this imperfect world, not in this iLoon
parallel universe.

[1] But *theoretically* is would probably be possible for the majority
of iStuff and Android and (MS-)Windows devices.

nospam
Guest

Wed May 04, 2016 5:11 am   



In article <dosap4Fcdh3U1_at_mid.individual.net>, Frank Slootweg
<this_at_ddress.is.invalid> wrote:

Quote:
In your case, the purchase was NOT from an authorised Apple reseller, so
Apple has no way to track the sale of that iPad: they would have a
record of where it was originally sold, and possibly who it was sold to,
but that doesn't match up with your purchase from Becextech, because
Apple has no business dealings with that company and no record of
selling your iPad to them. It is likely that the iPad was originally
sold by Apple in a different country, then resold to you by Becextech in
Australia.

As far as Apple was concerned, your iPad was either a second hand
purchase, or potentially stolen then on-sold to you by a grey market
reseller.

No offense, but I find that a strange, premature and even false
conclusion.

As Don has mentioned several times, Becextech is *not* some small,
shady, company. They're all in the open, with many (thousands?)
products.

So Don's iPad was clearly *not* second hand (because he had a receipt
from Becextech) and *not* "potentially stolen".


once again, apple received a phone call from someone who couldn't get
past activation lock.

said person didn't know the password to the apple id associated with
the device, did not know the answers to the security questions for the
apple id account, could not verify an email sent to the email on file
at apple and also provided an invoice that didn't have a serial number.

since *all* of those failed, the natural conclusion is to assume that
the person calling was *not* the legitimate owner, because if he was,
one or more of those would have been successful, and in fact, done
without even needing to call at all.

that's why apple wanted additional proof.

very simple.

Quote:
Anyway, it's nice to see that your *actual* experience and information
shows that the "Official receipts always have a serial number!" claim
is the bollocks that we always said it was.


the serial number might not be on a printed receipt that is spit out of
the register to prevent fraud (for obvious reasons that are no doubt
beyond your comprehension), but the serial number is very definitely in
the store's inventory database and can easily be cross-referenced with
an order number.

often, only the last few digits of the serial number is printed on a
receipt, similar to how the last 4 digits of the credit card number
used is printed. again, this is for fraud prevention.

activating an ios device ties its serial number to the apple id used
for activation, so *apple* has a record of the serial number.

claiming that the serial number is never tracked is simply wrong.

nospam
Guest

Wed May 04, 2016 5:11 am   



In article <dosckvFcr3mU1_at_mid.individual.net>, Rod Speed
<rod.speed.aaa_at_gmail.com> wrote:

Quote:
Thank you to those people that got back to me regarding iPad
receipts, and for displaying them. Yes it looks more common
for Apple themselves to put a serial number on a receipt, but
the resellers and non-authorized dealers don't seem to go
to this trouble.

yes they do.

No they don't, mine has no serial number on it.


it's in the seller's database and apple's database, at a minimum.

Rod Speed
Guest

Wed May 04, 2016 6:52 am   



"nospam" <nospam_at_nospam.invalid> wrote in message
news:030520161911078220%nospam_at_nospam.invalid...
Quote:
In article <dosap4Fcdh3U1_at_mid.individual.net>, Frank Slootweg
this_at_ddress.is.invalid> wrote:

In your case, the purchase was NOT from an authorised Apple reseller,
so
Apple has no way to track the sale of that iPad: they would have a
record of where it was originally sold, and possibly who it was sold
to,
but that doesn't match up with your purchase from Becextech, because
Apple has no business dealings with that company and no record of
selling your iPad to them. It is likely that the iPad was originally
sold by Apple in a different country, then resold to you by Becextech
in
Australia.

As far as Apple was concerned, your iPad was either a second hand
purchase, or potentially stolen then on-sold to you by a grey market
reseller.

No offense, but I find that a strange, premature and even false
conclusion.

As Don has mentioned several times, Becextech is *not* some small,
shady, company. They're all in the open, with many (thousands?)
products.

So Don's iPad was clearly *not* second hand (because he had a receipt
from Becextech) and *not* "potentially stolen".

once again, apple received a phone call from someone who couldn't get
past activation lock.

said person didn't know the password to the apple id associated with
the device, did not know the answers to the security questions for the
apple id account, could not verify an email sent to the email on file
at apple and also provided an invoice that didn't have a serial number.

since *all* of those failed, the natural conclusion is to assume
that the person calling was *not* the legitimate owner,


Completely stupid to assume that in fact, particularly when Apple
could see that his company name was in the Apple ID that had
originally been used to setup that ipad that he claimed he owned.

> because if he was, one or more of those would have been successful,

Even sillier than you usually manage with the RECEIPT for the ipad he had
bought which, like with hordes of others, didn't include the serial number.

Quote:
and in fact, done without even needing to call at all.

that's why apple wanted additional proof.


More fool Apple when they could see that his company name
was part of the Apple ID that had originally been used to setup
that ipad all those years ago and were too stupid to send the
verification email to the Apple ID that had been used much
more recently on that ipad when he told them that he could
no longer remember the password for the original one.

> very simple.

More of your bare faced lies.

Quote:
Anyway, it's nice to see that your *actual* experience and
information shows that the "Official receipts always have a
serial number!" claim is the bollocks that we always said it was.

the serial number might not be on a printed receipt that is spit
out of the register to prevent fraud (for obvious reasons that are
no doubt beyond your comprehension), but the serial number is
very definitely in the store's inventory database and can easily be
cross-referenced with an order number.


But the pair of call center fools who had originally dealt with
Don were too fucking stupid to check that with the seller.

Quote:
often, only the last few digits of the serial number is printed
on a receipt, similar to how the last 4 digits of the credit card
number used is printed. again, this is for fraud prevention.


Never had that with a serial number, only with the card number.

Quote:
activating an ios device ties its serial number to the apple id
used for activation, so *apple* has a record of the serial number.


And Apple has the record that Don chose to include his company
name in the Apple ID that was initially used to setup that ipad, so
there is no possibility what so ever that Don could have stolen that
ipad recently from whoever had setup that ipad all those years ago
and that what had actually happened was that Apple had fucked
up with the iOS update and had demanded that the original Apple
ID that had been used to setup that ipad all those years ago, and
had never been used again since, be used again and that there
was no possibility that the ipad had been stolen recently.

> claiming that the serial number is never tracked

No one ever did that, fuckwit.

> is simply wrong.

Having fun thrashing that straw man ?

Rod Speed
Guest

Wed May 04, 2016 6:53 am   



nospam <nospam_at_nospam.invalid> wrote
Quote:
Rod Speed<rod.speed.aaa_at_gmail.com> wrote

Thank you to those people that got back to me regarding iPad
receipts, and for displaying them. Yes it looks more common
for Apple themselves to put a serial number on a receipt, but
the resellers and non-authorized dealers don't seem to go
to this trouble.

yes they do.

No they don't, mine has no serial number on it.

it's in the seller's database and apple's database, at a minimum.


Irrelevant to Don's statement.

Jodi
Guest

Thu May 26, 2016 5:28 am   



Apple are idiots. They have these procedures in place to make it hard for stolen products to be unlocked, however it doesn't mean they follow them.

I had a brand new iphone stolen. I locked icloud as you do. The thief took it to an Apple store and they wouldn't unlock it. He walked out, walked in again and used my name with the same staff member and got threatening. They unlocked it for him straight away. He didn't have to give them my email address, I.D. or a receipt. They knew he wasn't me but because he raised his voice they did it.

This story came directly from Apple when I contacted them about my stolen phone not being on my icloud account anymore. This is in writing. Apple however don't believe they did anything wrong at all and refuse to be liable. If they wanted to unlock the phone and give it back to the thief they should have been prepared to give me a replacement.


Guest

Sun Jan 08, 2017 11:15 am   



One thing of notice to me us that it is the article that carries a warrantee not the person who might acquire it second hand. If the thing has 12 months warranty then it is carried on to any subsequent owners. This was taken to court over 30 years ago. It was when a person fitted a replacement engine to an old car to sell it. The new owner claimed warranty but was given the same runaround by the supplier of the engine. He won the case so anyone who tries to clame that you don't have a warranty is breaking the law.

Lucifer Morningstar
Guest

Sun Jan 08, 2017 5:07 pm   



On Sun, 8 Jan 2017 01:15:02 -0800 (PST), womby1954_at_gmail.com wrote:

Quote:
One thing of notice to me us that it is the article that carries a warrante=
e not the person who might acquire it second hand. If the thing has 12 mont=
hs warranty then it is carried on to any subsequent owners. This was taken =
to court over 30 years ago. It was when a person fitted a replacement engin=
e to an old car to sell it. The new owner claimed warranty but was given th=
e same runaround by the supplier of the engine. He won the case so anyone w=
ho tries to clame that you don't have a warranty is breaking the law.


Dude! Get a proper newsreader.

--
I call shenanigans on all theistic religions

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